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Keep the discussion in this thread related to IEM Katowice/SC2. General discussion regarding the corona virus outbreak belongs in the General Topic forums. |
This extreme craze is extremely unwarranted. There is no such thing as a super virus or super bug. A NEW virus will be dangerous for a while, in dense populations, until almost everybody develops natural immunity to it. In the past, there were plagues because people were living in horrible sanitary conditions, while having weak immune system due to malnutrition. There's no reason for modern people in first world countries to think a new plague is likely coming.
When you cross the street, no matter how careful you are, there is a risk of someone driving under the influence (of perhaps stupidity) hitting you. Does that mean you should never cross the street, or ride your bicycle? Give me a break.
I'm predicting it right now, this coronavirus constant fearmongering is gonna fizz out in less than two years when people realize, "Oh, it's just another virus. Oh, there's this thing called an immune system. Turns out, it runs pretty reliably if you change its oil regularly (with diet, exercise, stress management, etc.)."
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I'm just confused because haven't they already been playing at this venue? Where have all these offline games been taking place so far? I thought they were already there in Katowice.
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Sad, but probably for the best.
To those that don't think that it is serious, or think that the last 2 major new virus weren't either...you are simply clueless.
The reason SARS and ebola were contained is because of things like we are doing now. If western countries did not spend 100s of millions to billions of dollars doing research, testing, actually going to the heart of the outbreak, putting themselves at risk to stop a true mass epidemic, then they would have been just that. Pull your heads out of your asses, and get a clue.
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On February 28 2020 12:38 kramvti wrote:
Sad, but probably for the best.
To those that don't think that it is serious, or think that the last 2 major new virus weren't either...you are simply clueless.
The reason SARS and ebola were contained is because of things like we are doing now. If western countries did not spend 100s of millions to billions of dollars doing research, testing, actually going to the heart of the outbreak, putting themselves at risk to stop a true mass epidemic, then they would have been just that. Pull your heads out of your asses, and get a clue.
Another clueless person who consumes too much media, thinking they're well-informed. Just because governments and institutions pour endless amounts of your tax dollars into a solving a problem doesn't mean that when the problem subsided that it was due to those institutions. That's assumption based on fallacious reasoning.
There's a reason why ebola was only a serious problem in specific areas of Africa. It turns out, sanitation there is abysmal, and malnutrition runs rampant in third world countries. You're losing sleep over these things, because your education system and news outlets have failed you.
User was temp banned for this post.
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On February 28 2020 12:36 NinjaNight wrote:
I'm just confused because haven't they already been playing at this venue? Where have all these offline games been taking place so far? I thought they were already there in Katowice.
You should also be confused that they would do this even as people are already congregating in hundreds of other different places: schools, theaters, public transportation, sports events, etc. Supermarkets and shopping malls are full of people touching things that get handled by hundreds of different people within a week. Are we supposed to close off everything because hysterical people can't get a handle of their irrational fears?
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On February 28 2020 12:54 tigon_ridge wrote:Show nested quote +On February 28 2020 12:38 kramvti wrote:
Sad, but probably for the best.
To those that don't think that it is serious, or think that the last 2 major new virus weren't either...you are simply clueless.
The reason SARS and ebola were contained is because of things like we are doing now. If western countries did not spend 100s of millions to billions of dollars doing research, testing, actually going to the heart of the outbreak, putting themselves at risk to stop a true mass epidemic, then they would have been just that. Pull your heads out of your asses, and get a clue. Another clueless person who consumes too much media, thinking they're well-informed. Just because governments and institutions pour endless amounts of your tax dollars into a solving a problem doesn't mean that when the problem subsided that it was due to those institutions. That's assumption based on fallacious reasoning. There's a reason why ebola was only a serious problem in specific areas of Africa. It turns out, sanitation there is abysmal, and malnutrition runs rampant in third world countries. You're losing sleep over these things, because your education system and news outlets have failed you.
cite a medical professional supporting your position
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On February 28 2020 13:28 brickrd wrote:Show nested quote +On February 28 2020 12:54 tigon_ridge wrote:On February 28 2020 12:38 kramvti wrote:
Sad, but probably for the best.
To those that don't think that it is serious, or think that the last 2 major new virus weren't either...you are simply clueless.
The reason SARS and ebola were contained is because of things like we are doing now. If western countries did not spend 100s of millions to billions of dollars doing research, testing, actually going to the heart of the outbreak, putting themselves at risk to stop a true mass epidemic, then they would have been just that. Pull your heads out of your asses, and get a clue. Another clueless person who consumes too much media, thinking they're well-informed. Just because governments and institutions pour endless amounts of your tax dollars into a solving a problem doesn't mean that when the problem subsided that it was due to those institutions. That's assumption based on fallacious reasoning. There's a reason why ebola was only a serious problem in specific areas of Africa. It turns out, sanitation there is abysmal, and malnutrition runs rampant in third world countries. You're losing sleep over these things, because your education system and news outlets have failed you. cite a medical professional supporting your position
sophistry 101: appeal to authority
Also, I'm not going to do your own homework for you.
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Wow I feel sorry for everyone from the organizers to the players and fans. This really sucks.
ASL also doesn't have a live audience right now.
Sigh. Fucking virus. But Poland is right to play it safe. However dangerous or not it may turn out to be it is certainly spreading and no one wants more disease around.
Let's all watch it from our hopefully safe homes and support the event as best we can!
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I just love how they bash and ban the only reasonable posters in the thread. This and the amount of "specialists in the field" who educate themselves by watching TV (hint: it just doesnt work that way). I can understand the organizers though. Noone wants to be the scapegoat in a world filled with hysteria.
User was warned for this post
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the people crying about the virus response being overblown probably dumped their life savings in tesla shares a month and a half ago. my condolences.
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On February 28 2020 15:16 insitelol wrote:
I just love how they bash and ban the only reasonable posters in the thread. This and the amount of "specialists in the field" who educate themselves by watching TV (hint: it just doesnt work that way). I can understand the organizers though. Noone wants to be the scapegoat in a world filled with hysteria.
Are you the medical authority we have been searching for all along?
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On February 28 2020 06:43 Slydie wrote:
Bullshit. This virus is no worse than a normal seasonal flu, which actually kills 290k-650k people.
I wonder when this hysteria will fade out.
Seasonal Flu across the world has death rate of 0,1%, last year in Poland it had 0,0004%. Coronavirus has 1-2%. Do the math genius.
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On February 28 2020 06:43 Slydie wrote:
Bullshit. This virus is no worse than a normal seasonal flu, which actually kills 290k-650k people.
I wonder when this hysteria will fade out.
I'm not going to argue this, but you are very misinformed.
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On February 28 2020 16:09 Silvanel wrote:Show nested quote +On February 28 2020 06:43 Slydie wrote:
Bullshit. This virus is no worse than a normal seasonal flu, which actually kills 290k-650k people.
I wonder when this hysteria will fade out. Seasonal Flu across the world has death rate of 0,1%, last year in Poland it had 0,0004%. Coronavirus has 1-2%. Do the math genius.
1-2% is based on the Chinese figures which are underreported, they ignore a lot of pneumonia deaths and ascribe it to so we wont really know what the death rate is until a few weeks, months in and reliable data from a more trustworthy country.
Italy has some worrying results so far, deaths tend to be delayed, by at least a week, and they have way too many deaths for a 1-2% mortality, it might actually be as high as 5%, but the bigger issue is the R0 of the disease.
R0 meaning the average number of people an infected person is going to spread his disease to. In COVID-19 it was somewhere between 6-8 in the first few days of the outbreak in Italy and South Korea, meaning the average infected person infected 6-8 people.
The seasonal flu has an R0 of like 1.2...
So after 8 generations of infections of COVID you might have as high as 1.6 million to 16.7 million infections (this might take months, and R0 tends to go down with time and containment procedures).
People who dont understand this are illiterate on the subject, its not just a flu. We have never seen such mass quarantines... ever. Literally, the quarantines we have been seeing in just the first few weeks of the outbreak have been the biggest in humanity's history.
Another issue is the supply chain disruptions, China accounts for 20% of the global industry. The drop in trade we have seen just with China is actually larger than in 2008, if the world needs to close borders, we might be seeing a bigger economic crisis than we saw in 2008.
TLDR: It's not just a flu and anyone who claims it is, is uninformed.
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On February 28 2020 15:49 negativedge wrote:
the people crying about the virus response being overblown probably dumped their life savings in tesla shares a month and a half ago. my condolences.
If they did it a month and a half ago, they are still in really good shape, up about ~150$ per share. And if they sold a few weeks ago they could have netted about 75% increase. 
Stock talk aside, you cant really overreact to a virus such as this, from the point of view of the institutions. A few things can happen:
You take very serious measures
1. Nobody dies in your country, you take credit for stopping the virus
2. People still get infected, you have the right to say you've tried everything in your power
You dont take very serious measures
1. The crisis is not as bad as, everything goes on as normal
2. The crisis is that bad, people are getting sick and dying, and you're blamed for not stopping it
Yes, from the current data, it's not very deadly as long as your a healthy person, you wont die, even if u're infected and manifesting symptoms. But sickly and elderly people are at risk, and there are a lot of unknowns about this thing, so it's a really bad idea to take it lightly.
I'm saying this, as i'm contemplating canceling my long awaited (and paid for) trip to Barcelona. Not because im afraid I would get infected and die, but because i might be caught up in a quarantine or placed under surveillance for weeks upon arriving home, if things take a turn for the worse, and people start to die in Spain like they do in Italy. It's a shitty situation, with no winners, but it is what it is.
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On February 28 2020 16:31 Geo.Rion wrote:Show nested quote +On February 28 2020 15:49 negativedge wrote:
the people crying about the virus response being overblown probably dumped their life savings in tesla shares a month and a half ago. my condolences. If they did it a month and a half ago, they are still in really good shape, up about ~150$ per share. And if they sold a few weeks ago they could have netted about 75% increase. Stock talk aside, you cant really overreact to a virus such as this, from the point of view of the institutions. A few things can happen: You take very serious measures 1. Nobody dies in your country, you take credit for stopping the virus 2. People still get infected, you have the right to say you've tried everything in your power You dont take very serious measures 1. The crisis is not as bad as, everything goes on as normal 2. The crisis is that bad, people are getting sick and dying, and you're blamed for not stopping it Yes, from the current data, it's not very deadly as long as your a healthy person, you wont die, even if u're infected and manifesting symptoms. But sickly and elderly people are at risk, and there are a lot of unknowns about this thing, so it's a really bad idea to take it lightly. I'm saying this, as i'm contemplating canceling my long awaited (and paid for) trip to Barcelona. Not because im afraid I would get infected and die, but because i might be caught up in a quarantine or placed under surveillance for weeks upon arriving home, if things take a turn for the worse, and people start to die in Spain like they do in Italy. It's a shitty situation, with no winners, but it is what it is.
Its not a question of people dying its about the economic supply chain disruption, not a single person can die in your country and you might still have an economic shitstorm on your hands.
Something like 18% of fortune 1000 companies have their primary supplier from China and 96% of them have their secondary supplier from China.
Furthermore what about antibiotics, I luckly live in a country that has a strong pharmaceutical industry with companies such as Krka and Lek making us self sufficient, MOST countries import their antibiotics from... You know it... China.
Including the states. USA moves the majority of their manufacturing oversees...
Secondary bacterial infections can kill you when you are infected with COVID, so what happens now, your country is overtaxed with infections, not enough beds, not enough antibiotics, mortality is going to spike.
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Unfortunate. I guess it's understandable though. Gonna have to see if this affects the players with not as much offline experience in a more positive way.
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I think I know who the flat earthers are in this thread
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On February 28 2020 17:07 Akio wrote:
Unfortunate. I guess it's understandable though. Gonna have to see if this affects the players with not as much offline experience in a more positive way.
hmm, like who?
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Czech Republic12134 Posts
Just some fancy sources to show it's not just a flu. Some of them may be outdated already but, for example, the CCDC is really slow for me so I will rather work with the link I have.
Death rate is roughly 2 % for China, only people who get into the critical stage die and it's 50 % of them, mostly old men. Considering the PDF is downloading 2 kb/s I dare to say it's overloaded. No child/teen was reported to die from covid
Source: http://weekly.chinacdc.cn/en/article/id/e53946e2-c6c4-41e9-9a9b-fea8db1a8f51
I have the PDF saved and can upload if the website will go off as I couldn't download the pdf in the end(for the second time)
Based on who the death rate is over 3,5 % but I would say we need some leniency as not everyone will be reported while every death probably will be.
China stats by WHO: Cumulative confirmed cases 78630, deaths 2747.
Outside China stats by WHO: 1573/57 (3,6 % death rate) (new 643/13 (2 % death rate)).
Source: https://www.who.int/docs/default-source/coronaviruse/situation-reports/20200227-sitrep-38-covid-19.pdf?sfvrsn=9f98940c_2
(the last report on corona I know about)
The general COVID 19 WHO link with some Q&A and recommendations:
https://www.who.int/emergencies/diseases/novel-coronavirus-2019
STRATEGIC OBJECTIVESWHO’s strategic objectives for this response are to:
•Interrupt human-to-human transmissionincluding reducing secondary infections among close contacts and health care workers, preventing transmission amplification events, and preventing further international spread*;
•Identify, isolate and care for patients early, including providing optimizedcare for infected patients;
•Identify and reduce transmission from the animal source;
•Address crucial unknowns regarding clinical severity, extent of transmission and infection, treatment options, and accelerate the development of diagnostics, therapeuticsand vaccines;
•Communicate critical risk and event information to all communities and counter misinformation;
•Minimize social and economic impact through multisectoral partnerships.
*This can be achieved through a combination ofpublic health measures, such as rapid identification, diagnosis and management of the cases, identification and follow up of the contacts, infection prevention and control in healthcare settings, implementation of health measures for travelers, awareness-raising in the populationand risk communication.
Edit> Also, please, realize that there's a big outburst in Europe right now and many players came from Korea where's a big outbreak as well. They could have cancelled earlier, but considering France reported the possible start of epidemy tomorrow YESTERDAY OMG >< evening(at least in the Czech news it was as a hot topic from the late afternoon) I guess the situation simply changed. And many viewers travel across the Europe to see this from already infected countries.
Another edit> of course I am not working in medicine/virology nor I have a degree in that field so I may have misunderstood the numbers and language in which it's written. In that case point my stupidity and correct me. Thanks!
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EPT
