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Interview - Zombiegrub - SC2, Casting, Fun - Page 2

Forum Index > SC2 General
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JimmyJRaynor
Profile Blog Joined April 2010
Canada17365 Posts
Last Edited: 2017-03-05 16:38:11
March 05 2017 16:37 GMT
#21
ya, i know members of my race who go on twitch and twitter and make racist comments against my race; they do this so that racism gets talked about more. any anonymous person can say anything for their own reasons. you'll never stop the members of my own race from making disparaging remarks on anonymous platforms like twitter and twitch. In fact, you talking about how terrible it is will only encourage them to keep going. they do it just to stir the pot.

there is no way to know how many of these twitch and twitter trolls have the same motive and no way to know how they truly feel. one thing is for sure they are taking advantage of their total anonymity.
Ray Kassar To David Crane : "you're no more important to Atari than the factory workers assembling the cartridges"
Deleted User 3420
Profile Blog Joined May 2003
24492 Posts
March 05 2017 17:37 GMT
#22
On March 06 2017 00:50 Lambertus wrote:
@travis

Your point about victimhood maybe true, but as somebody that doesn't live in the US I cant say a lot about it.

Regarding the interview questions and the topic of sexism in gaming:

I was not fishing for confirmation of my own ideas:
as an regular viewer of Basetrade.tv I see it happen all the time in twitch-chat. That is also what led to my strong questions.
Just take IEM at the moment - The comments about Smix in twitch-chat are just plain terrible. I m not saying its the majority, but it is happening continuesly... so it is there, it is visible and it is not really being taken care of a lot of times.

Im not talking about e.sports, its about the behaviour of many people in the community.

Although luckily, there is a lot of positive attitude too: for example in the basetrade.tv chat but also here on TL in the Forums. So if I m trying to accomplish anything at all, it is this: dont tolerate this type of things. Nothing about this is normal!
And hopefully down the line it will not be necessary to ask these type of questions anymore.



That's fair. We shouldn't tolerate poor behavior towards any group. Thanks for the interview. I did not know she had a degree in animation.
ninazerg
Profile Blog Joined October 2009
United States7291 Posts
March 05 2017 18:20 GMT
#23
On March 05 2017 20:30 Kaewins wrote:
I'M GONNA DERAIL THE THREAD.


No, dude. Stahp.
"If two pregnant women get into a fist fight, it's like a mecha-battle between two unborn babies." - Fyodor Dostoevsky
Kaewins
Profile Joined April 2013
Bulgaria138 Posts
March 05 2017 18:30 GMT
#24
I keep forgetting to use the feedback sandwich, y'know say something nice first, then the negative feedback, then finish on something nice. People get less hurt with that.

I will finish on something nice though, I am quite the fan of BTTV and thoroughly enjoyed the interview, despite the white knighting.

A quick question though, I noticed she plays Terran on her stream, but I always thought she was a Zerg player, did she switch for LotV or am I completely wrong?
Saechiis
Profile Blog Joined May 2010
Netherlands4989 Posts
Last Edited: 2017-03-05 19:27:38
March 05 2017 18:57 GMT
#25
On March 05 2017 21:34 blunderfulguy wrote:
Show nested quote +
On March 05 2017 20:30 Kaewins wrote:
I'd have to disagree with you on this. Hear me out. The problem isn't that they get attacked, because all of us who play competitive games ONLINE get the same crap. To say they get more crap because they're girls is something very speculative. How do you make the distinction and who are you to make that distinction?

In fact most of my female friends online don't have a problem being treated like crap, because they understand all of us experience that. The real problem women face is that they aren't taken as seriously as the other male competitors. This is a more subtle and in my opinion painful form of sexism. Where most guys are taken seriously by default, women need to work hard to prove themselves and even then there's this one retard who is like "its a girl hurr durr".

So obviously there are things to be improved here, but lets not make it out to be something more than it actually is. Both men and women get treated like crap online and its kind of insulting asking such a question, because with the question comes the base assumption that it's harder for women to deal with this kind of thing which is really demeaning.

And honestly saying stuff like - "Nonetheless a woman in an environment that is unfortunately very hostile to female gamers and females in general" - is disrespectful to gamers in general. There are trolls online, there are ragers online, but gamers in particular are FAR less hostile to women in general than almost any other mediums out there. So lets respect each other and not throw out such far reaching statements.

"If a girl isn't able to take the abuse and toxicity that comes with the territory, she shouldn't be playing at all."
I'm just gonna put this out there for ya dude: You are completely out of line.
Girls getting attacked for being girls is a problem (and is sexist, btw). Men being oppressive toward and attacking women in online (and, especially, gaming) communities is a problem, and that line of thinking is part of it. So let's respect the other people around us, not throw out such ridiculous statements, and be as positive and inclusive as possible.


Tangent on sexism, don't read if you're not as easily triggered as I am and just liked the interview, sorry for derailing your thread OP.

+ Show Spoiler +
I wonder whether we're really helping the female cause by "protecting" them and pushing a "don't be mean to girls" agenda. Online bullying isn't gender exclusive. I regularly get told to kill myself. Perhaps they'd tell me to stay in the kitchen if they thought I was female. Perhaps they'd tell me I was a fat fuck if they thought I was fat. Maybe they'd tell me to get a life if they thought I played too many games.

What seems sexist to me is to look at those insults and start a crusade over the one targeted at females. A slap doesn't hurt a woman more than it does a man, neither do insults. So why are we so eager to ride our white horses into battle to protect the maidens?

I was bullied as a kid, white male, tall, good looking (by society's standards), good at sports. Insecure also, combined with my niceness that could only mean I was gay. And so people called me gay and I was offended because at that age being called gay was some serious shit. I couldn't fathom that people would purposely say means things to me while I tried so hard to be nice. Then one day there was this other guy in my year, similar to me plus freckles. He didn't partake in bullying others and was generally a nice person, a group of guys called him gay in passing. He stopped, smiled and said, yeah, you want some? That day I learned.


In male culture (and I believe human culture in general) everyone is subject to bullying. It's not as much about having the right arbitrary physical attributes as it is about your reaction to provocation. Bullying is a way of improving ones' social status by means of pushing others down. People naturally bully because gaining a higher social status has been proven to be a useful evolutionary trait. The wrong way to look at bullying would be to see it as something personal. For me to conclude that I was targeted because I am <insert attribute> would be me giving way too much credit to the malicious intent of my bullies. I wasn't bullied because those kids hated me or because I had an attribute that deserved it. Bullying is simply a human behaviour and I was the easiest target.


In the same vein we shouldn't conclude females get bullied because they're female. Rather they're bullied because people bully and being female is the easiest distinction to make in an online game. The movement against sexism is only proportional to the insecurity associated with the female gender and I can't help but find it embarassing that we're collectively so offended by what is essentially a form of school yard bullying.

Everyone gets provoked, it's your reaction that makes the distinction between being a victim (fugly freckles) and I want to sit on your face freckles.
I think esports is pretty nice.
Shield
Profile Blog Joined August 2009
Bulgaria4824 Posts
Last Edited: 2017-03-05 19:14:17
March 05 2017 19:13 GMT
#26
Sometimes there's positive sexism. E.g. when girls make mistakes in CS: GO, others ignore their mistakes and sometimes even flirt with them. Because I'm a guy, I get insults if I don't shoot properly. What about that?
ninazerg
Profile Blog Joined October 2009
United States7291 Posts
March 05 2017 19:36 GMT
#27
On March 06 2017 04:13 Shield wrote:
Sometimes there's positive sexism. E.g. when girls make mistakes in CS: GO, others ignore their mistakes and sometimes even flirt with them. Because I'm a guy, I get insults if I don't shoot properly. What about that?


o.o

This thread is supposed to be about ZombieGrub, and giving her some props for contributing to StarCraft. Can you all just let this go for once?
"If two pregnant women get into a fist fight, it's like a mecha-battle between two unborn babies." - Fyodor Dostoevsky
D_K_night
Profile Joined April 2010
Canada615 Posts
March 05 2017 20:12 GMT
#28
On March 06 2017 03:30 Kaewins wrote:
I keep forgetting to use the feedback sandwich, y'know say something nice first, then the negative feedback, then finish on something nice. People get less hurt with that.

I will finish on something nice though, I am quite the fan of BTTV and thoroughly enjoyed the interview, despite the white knighting.

A quick question though, I noticed she plays Terran on her stream, but I always thought she was a Zerg player, did she switch for LotV or am I completely wrong?


The "feedback" sandwich tends to lose its effect when people see/hear it all the time, and even all the more so when the listener even uses the feedback sandwich him/herself on others too!

Especially on forums where people often don't read. They skim, and skim over your feedback sandwich completely, and only read what they want to read, in many cases only the negative content and none of the positive.

ZG has been a Terran player as long as I have followed her. I'm sure like many of us she's done off-racing, but her knowledge of Terran really showcases how she's truly a Terran main.
Canada
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