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[NSSL] Ro16 Group A: There Are No Known Knowns

Forum Index > SC2 General
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[NSSL] Ro16 Group A: There Are No Known Knowns

Text byTL.net ESPORTS
January 15th, 2015 02:42 GMT
2014 WCS

SPOTV Starleague 2015 Season 1



Ro16 Group A:
Terminator, FanTaSy, Leenock, Super

Brackets and standings on Liquipedia
Starcraft II Starleague

There Are No Known Knowns

Thursday, Jan 15 10:00am GMT (GMT+00:00)
by Brindled

Here are the facts. The S2SL group stage emerged from a few upsets that occurred in Challenger: Terminator defeated TaeJa and Stats defeated INnoVation. Leenock soundly beat YongHwa and FanTaSy reaffirmed our belief that MarineKing sucks at TvT.

Here are the questions. Will the upset train continue for Terminator or will his victory over TaeJa be seen as a fluke? Will Super be right in his prediction that the protoss in this group won't stand a chance, before realizing it was himself? Will Leenock regret swapping Dream for Terminator? Is FanTaSy actually a good player now!?

The only thing certain about this group is that it is difficult to analyze or predict. The odd group selection system of swapping players after they've been assigned to a group resulted in two mysterious protoss players thrown into the works, and it is now harder than ever to pick two players with an above average certainty of advancing. There are no known knowns in this group. There are known unknowns; that is to say, we know there are things we don't know. But then there are also unknown unknowns—the things we don't know we don't know. And if one looks throughout the history of our great country Starcraft II and other free countries great games, it is the latter category that tend to be the difficult ones.

Known Unknowns:
One thing we can count on is that (Z)Leenock, against the expectations or perceptions of many, has been very consistent in remaining in the top echelon of Starcraft 2 competition. He's been one of the longest tenured Code S players, and he occasionally still places in the top 4 of premier tournaments.

[image loading]
At least from the debut of Gangnam Style


The Leenoctopus remains on the ocean floor with tentacles dug in, blending and only revealing himself when the situation appears advantageous to him. When faced with overwhelming odds, the Leenoctopus spews its ink (which vaguely resembles a pattern forming the words ‘GG’) and returns to the ocean floor where he remains, ever present, until next time. He's never truly knocked out into obscurity, with a few exceptions, and is always there. Oh and there’s the fact that he’s won the last 8 of his previous 10 games. In a row. Against people like (T)TaeJa and (P)sOs. 6 of which were against Protoss.

Still though, when observing trends with players like Leenock, his recent results may belie the potential tournament run he should be having. This is no longer 2012. In the year 2014, Leenock played 191 games with an underwhelming 55% win rate. It was just barely enough to keep him in the limelight of the pro scene with yet another top 4 placing at Dreamhack Valencia in July. While Leenock has floated just between the Ro16 and Ro32 barrier in Code S for the past 2 years, the S2SL is a different tournament. Will Leenock only maintain his consistency of good-but-not-great runs in this tournament as well, or will it be a different story in a different tournament? No longer in the GSL, the S2SL may be Leenock’s only chance to place high and once again carve out his territory.

Everyone else in this group, on the other hand, is a player with something to prove. Although (T)FanTaSy is known as one of the best players from Brood War, he follows the trend of other Brood War greats of either not doing well in Starcraft II or playing very inconsistently. In FanTaSy’s case, he does both. His sub-50% win rate in 2014 does disguise match series wins against players like (Z)Solar, (T)MarineKing, (P)MC, and (Z)Life throughout the year. However, when it comes down to it FanTaSy usually can’t be counted on to deliver when the fans want him to the most. Good results are either a hit or a miss with him, as evidenced by his most recent performance in the GSL group stage—he both defeated and was defeated by Rogue, the latter event knocking him out of the group altogether. As much as some (including myself) would like this year to be FanTaSy’s year, I just don’t see it.

Now that we have the known unknowns out of the way, we must focus upon the unknown unknowns in the group. There are things about these players that we do not know we don’t know.

[image loading]
“The ABSENCE of evidence is NOT the EVIDENCE OF ABSENCE!!!!”


Unknown Unknowns:
Confused? Good. (P)Terminator is a player who does overwhelmingly well against zerg, but statistically does very poor against terran and protoss. However, these statistics are from a staggering total of 69 games; he is the least experienced player in this whole group. Yet he is in the round of 32 of S2SL, and he reached it by taking down TaeJa in an inexplicable reverse-sweep. This collides with FanTaSy’s inverse law of success: the less well-known the opponent, the greater the likelihood that FanTaSy loses. Terminator's underdog status translates to plus or minus 5 to the Star Power differential of 70 (because his first game against FanTaSy will be his 70th pro game). Combine that with the law of transitive properties where if he can beat Taeja, surely he can beat a lesser Terran like FanTaSy. He is also on Jin Air Green Wings, which used to be called Team 8, so be sure to multiply by J8 (J not for Jin Air, but for (Z)Jaedong, who used to be on Team 8).

…

Point being, I clearly don’t know math. And I just don’t know what the kid is going to be like. He has the ability to beat high level players but I don’t know if he’s going to do it in this group, or if he’ll barely do it, or if he won’t do it at all. An unknown unknown.

Oh, but he won’t beat (P)Super because Terminator isn’t good at PvP.

By the way, Super’s that one guy who won the tournament with the world’s weirdest name “Hey, Look, Koreans!” against (Z)Soulkey and carved his way up there by winning PvPs against people like (P)Rain and (P)HerO. Which is just about all we know of him too.

Predictions:
As the most experienced player in this group, I think Leenock has the consistency to advance from this group in first place. Terminator should beat FanTaSy because of the reasons stated above, and Super should beat FanTaSy because no one knows who he is and what shenanigans he's likely to pull. That means a date with Terminator in a PvP, and a crushing victory for Super appears to be the obvious outcome.

Terminator > FanTaSy
Leenock > Super
Leenock > Terminator
FanTaSy < Super
Terminator < Super

(Z)Leenock and (P)Super to advance.

Writers: Brindled.
Graphics: shiroiusagi.
Editors: lichter
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TL+ Member
banjoetheredskin
Profile Blog Joined November 2012
United States744 Posts
January 15 2015 02:46 GMT
#2
mind = blown
Writer#1 CJ fan | http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/starcraft-2/508947-wcs-dreamhack-austin-interviews
Orcasgt24
Profile Joined August 2011
Canada3238 Posts
January 15 2015 02:47 GMT
#3
This isn't on the calendar for upcoming events yet?

Anyways great article. I have no idea what the 3rd player preview is trying to say but ya...cool lol
In Hearthstone we pray to RNGesus. When Yogg-Saron hits the field, RNGod gets to work
The_Templar
Profile Blog Joined January 2011
your Country52797 Posts
January 15 2015 02:48 GMT
#4
On January 15 2015 11:46 banjoetheredskin wrote:
mind = blown

Mind = known

I say FanTaSy advances because why the hell not?
Moderatorshe/her
TL+ Member
isaachukfan
Profile Blog Joined October 2011
Canada785 Posts
January 15 2015 02:51 GMT
#5
Gogo Super!!
I'm a mennonite, yes I'm allowed to use a computer
isaachukfan
Profile Blog Joined October 2011
Canada785 Posts
January 15 2015 02:51 GMT
#6
On January 15 2015 11:48 The_Templar wrote:
Show nested quote +
On January 15 2015 11:46 banjoetheredskin wrote:
mind = blown

Mind = known

I say FanTaSy advances because why the hell not?


Without any known knowns how can anyone challange you?
I'm a mennonite, yes I'm allowed to use a computer
afreecaTV.Char
Profile Joined December 2014
United States337 Posts
January 15 2015 02:53 GMT
#7
I really hope Terminator and Fantasy make it out. Terminator won me over during the group drawings.
Former AfreecaTV Esports Manager (2014-2024)
JamesT
Profile Blog Joined October 2014
United States681 Posts
Last Edited: 2015-01-15 03:11:56
January 15 2015 03:11 GMT
#8
I'm not used to a Korean league starting in the round of 16.
Oh yeah, predictions, Leenock and Super, why not.
How are you doing today?
TelecoM
Profile Blog Joined January 2010
United States10673 Posts
Last Edited: 2015-01-15 03:29:39
January 15 2015 03:29 GMT
#9
These must be Lichters predictions lol, I bet he edited the predictions at the end of the article...

Lichterrrrrrrrrrrrrr............. ::Angry mothers voice:: :O

EDIT : FANTASY WILL NOT LOSE !
AKA: TelecoM[WHITE] Protoss fighting
munch
Profile Joined July 2014
Mute City2363 Posts
January 15 2015 03:34 GMT
#10
On January 15 2015 11:48 The_Templar wrote:
Show nested quote +
On January 15 2015 11:46 banjoetheredskin wrote:
mind = blown

Mind = known

I say FanTaSy advances because why the hell not?


sc2 maths best maths
WriterForm is temporary, MMA is permanent || http://www.teamliquid.net/blogs/508630-article-archive
Brindled
Profile Blog Joined July 2011
United States508 Posts
Last Edited: 2015-01-15 04:09:37
January 15 2015 03:46 GMT
#11
On January 15 2015 12:29 GGzerG wrote:
These must be Lichters predictions lol, I bet he edited the predictions at the end of the article...

Lichterrrrrrrrrrrrrr............. ::Angry mothers voice:: :O

EDIT : FANTASY WILL NOT LOSE !



I assure you, those predictions were unedited and wholly mine. That is rather an offensive insinuation sir! :D
Ua Mau ke Ea o ka ʻĀina i ka Pono @TL_Brindled11
TOAA
Profile Joined October 2014
United States38 Posts
January 15 2015 03:58 GMT
#12
fantasy better make it out of his group
I have God on my side
FrostedMiniWheats
Profile Joined August 2010
United States30730 Posts
January 15 2015 04:08 GMT
#13
Pretty much. Though I think Fantasy beats Terminator.
NesTea | Mvp | MC | Leenock | Losira | Gumiho | DRG | Taeja | Jinro | Stephano | Thorzain | Sen | Idra |Polt | Bomber | Symbol | Squirtle | Fantasy | Jaedong | Maru | sOs | Seed | ByuN | ByuL | Neeb| Scarlett | Rogue | IM forever
BroskiDerpman
Profile Joined January 2015
58 Posts
January 15 2015 04:31 GMT
#14
If Fantasy loses I'm going to burn all of my pants.
READY TO ROLL OUT
Lumi
Profile Blog Joined August 2009
United States1612 Posts
January 15 2015 05:03 GMT
#15
Leenock and Super ALL THE WAY I agree! :D
twitter.com/lumigaming - DongRaeGu is the One True Dong - /r/onetruedong
Rocket-Bear
Profile Joined July 2014
3070 Posts
January 15 2015 05:41 GMT
#16
God I so hope Leenock advances.
Favorite players: Gh and Zai
Carminedust
Profile Joined October 2014
487 Posts
January 15 2015 06:04 GMT
#17
wait so we know the unknown knows but dont know the unknown unknowns would that mean we would know the unknown unkowns who would become the unknown knows ... * head explodes *
Maybe was Zoun only Fan before he retired idk
Deadly Elenchus
Profile Joined March 2013
United States21 Posts
January 15 2015 06:36 GMT
#18
"By the way, Super’s that one guy who won the tournament with the world’s weirdest name “Hey, Look, Koreans!”

Is this a joke? Not seeing the tournament on his liqupedia page, not sure if I am missing out on something.
FrostedMiniWheats
Profile Joined August 2010
United States30730 Posts
January 15 2015 06:41 GMT
#19
On January 15 2015 15:36 Deadly Elenchus wrote:
"By the way, Super’s that one guy who won the tournament with the world’s weirdest name “Hey, Look, Koreans!”

Is this a joke? Not seeing the tournament on his liqupedia page, not sure if I am missing out on something.


http://wiki.teamliquid.net/starcraft2/Hey,_Look,_Koreans!

Also see 32 boys 1 cup :p

http://wiki.teamliquid.net/starcraft2/32_Boys_1_Cup
NesTea | Mvp | MC | Leenock | Losira | Gumiho | DRG | Taeja | Jinro | Stephano | Thorzain | Sen | Idra |Polt | Bomber | Symbol | Squirtle | Fantasy | Jaedong | Maru | sOs | Seed | ByuN | ByuL | Neeb| Scarlett | Rogue | IM forever
Daswollvieh
Profile Blog Joined October 2009
5553 Posts
January 15 2015 07:39 GMT
#20
We know a lot more about Super. He´s been a badass Protoss for a while, falling short eventually, but always good for upsets and looking in good shape right now.

Leenock and Super to advance.
Olli
Profile Blog Joined February 2012
Austria24417 Posts
January 15 2015 07:57 GMT
#21
Ha, you went with my predictions after all :D
Administrator"Declaring anything a disaster because aLive popped up out of nowhere is just downright silly."
ZigguratOfUr
Profile Blog Joined April 2012
Iraq16955 Posts
January 15 2015 08:01 GMT
#22
What a wonky group. Definitely not what one would expect from the Round of 16 of such an important league. Terminator and Leenock or Terminator and Super I'd say.
Brindled
Profile Blog Joined July 2011
United States508 Posts
January 15 2015 08:05 GMT
#23
On January 15 2015 16:57 DarkLordOlli wrote:
Ha, you went with my predictions after all :D

I took your known unknown over my unknown unknown.
Ua Mau ke Ea o ka ʻĀina i ka Pono @TL_Brindled11
Incognoto
Profile Blog Joined May 2010
France10239 Posts
January 15 2015 08:05 GMT
#24
Fantasy must not lose!
maru lover forever
Gwavajuice
Profile Joined June 2014
France1810 Posts
Last Edited: 2015-01-15 08:30:48
January 15 2015 08:30 GMT
#25
It would be cool to have Fantasy do something relevant at last. He can show glimpse of such brilliance sometimes but he always looks like he has just discovered the game


Leenock will qualify cause he's back to his WoL form when he was consistently in the top 3 zergs of the world, plus when he plays you can awlays expect some sick nydus play or wierd strats and we need more zergs like him
Dear INno and all the former STX boys.
ANLProbe
Profile Joined October 2013
667 Posts
January 15 2015 09:11 GMT
#26
This is such a weak group imo compared to the others.
Go TAEJA
Shuffleblade
Profile Joined February 2012
Sweden1903 Posts
January 15 2015 09:12 GMT
#27
My predictions are, I have no bloody idea.

Fantasy and Leenock are the players I want to advance, can they do it? No idea
Maru, Bomber, TY, Dear, Classic, DeParture and Rogue!
Orcasgt24
Profile Joined August 2011
Canada3238 Posts
January 15 2015 09:40 GMT
#28
On January 15 2015 18:11 ANLProbe wrote:
This is such a weak group imo compared to the others.

Thats probably why Leenock used his Golden Ball to enter it.
In Hearthstone we pray to RNGesus. When Yogg-Saron hits the field, RNGod gets to work
Edpayasugo
Profile Joined April 2013
United Kingdom2215 Posts
January 15 2015 10:12 GMT
#29
Go Fantasy and Super!
FlaSh MMA INnoVation FanTaSy MKP TY Ryung | soO Dark Rogue | HuK PartinG Stork State
munch
Profile Joined July 2014
Mute City2363 Posts
January 15 2015 14:06 GMT
#30
On January 15 2015 18:40 Orcasgt24 wrote:
Show nested quote +
On January 15 2015 18:11 ANLProbe wrote:
This is such a weak group imo compared to the others.

Thats probably why Leenock used his Golden Ball to enter it.

He didn't, he swapped dream out for terminator
WriterForm is temporary, MMA is permanent || http://www.teamliquid.net/blogs/508630-article-archive
Clonester
Profile Joined August 2014
Germany2808 Posts
January 15 2015 14:24 GMT
#31
Dat Prediction
Bomber, Attacker, DD, SOMEBODY, NiKo, Nex, Spidii
Olli
Profile Blog Joined February 2012
Austria24417 Posts
January 15 2015 14:24 GMT
#32
GG perfect predictions
Administrator"Declaring anything a disaster because aLive popped up out of nowhere is just downright silly."
Destructicon
Profile Blog Joined September 2011
4713 Posts
January 15 2015 15:51 GMT
#33
Better predictions then Artosis.
And with no curses.
WriterNever give up, never surrender! https://www.youtube.com/user/DestructiconSC
Wolf
Profile Blog Joined April 2010
Korea (South)3290 Posts
January 15 2015 15:52 GMT
#34
Best writeup. Wish I didn't miss it before
Commentatorhttp://twitter.com/proxywolf
TL+ Member
Makro
Profile Joined March 2011
France16890 Posts
January 15 2015 16:00 GMT
#35
nice prediction 10/10
Matthew 5:10 "Blessed are those who are persecuted because of shitposting, for theirs is the kingdom of heaven".
TL+ Member
Mistakes
Profile Joined February 2011
United States1102 Posts
January 15 2015 18:19 GMT
#36
Leenock/Fantasy ezpz
StarCraft | www.psistorm.com | www.twitter.com/MistakesSC | www.twitch.tv/MistakesSC | Seattle
Ej_
Profile Blog Joined January 2013
47656 Posts
January 15 2015 18:22 GMT
#37
On January 16 2015 03:19 Mistakes wrote:
Leenock/Fantasy ezpz

http://wiki.teamliquid.net/starcraft2/2015_StarCraft_II_StarLeague_Season_1/Main_Event
"Technically the dictionary has zero authority on the meaning or words" - Rodya
kinsky
Profile Joined November 2010
Germany368 Posts
January 15 2015 18:38 GMT
#38
those prediction skills! :o
ZigguratOfUr
Profile Blog Joined April 2012
Iraq16955 Posts
January 15 2015 20:04 GMT
#39
On January 16 2015 03:22 Ej_ wrote:
Show nested quote +
On January 16 2015 03:19 Mistakes wrote:
Leenock/Fantasy ezpz

http://wiki.teamliquid.net/starcraft2/2015_StarCraft_II_StarLeague_Season_1/Main_Event


Mistakes were made.
Brindled
Profile Blog Joined July 2011
United States508 Posts
Last Edited: 2015-01-16 00:41:53
January 16 2015 00:41 GMT
#40
On January 16 2015 03:38 kinsky wrote:
those prediction skills! :o


Booyah.
Am I a real writer now gaize?
Ua Mau ke Ea o ka ʻĀina i ka Pono @TL_Brindled11
Lumi
Profile Blog Joined August 2009
United States1612 Posts
January 16 2015 00:51 GMT
#41
Boom, Super. People need to pay attention to this guy and get used to seeing more established names being taken down by him. That's what he does.
twitter.com/lumigaming - DongRaeGu is the One True Dong - /r/onetruedong
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