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We know that this is a loaded subject, but insults and ad hominem attacks are not welcome. If you have nothing to say about the topic, refrain from posting. |
On March 18 2014 14:43 intense555 wrote:
This guy paid players out of his own pocket. He should be honored instead of w/e the people in this thread are saying. Even though he may not have always been responsible paying HTOMario and Bails on time, they still received money from him when other teams would not support those players. Same thing goes for Tassadar, Genius, and the rest of the players on LYGF. Honestly with all the hate he received simply over the team's name, it makes sense that he would back out of starcraft. Thanks to your guys' negative skepticism, at least 5 less starcraft players are receiving a salary. Its even worse that he may have a terminal heart illness, even though this could be an excuse to minimize criticism, it would be terrible if this is true. He is a nice honest guy from the interactions I have had with him at least. These players' contracts were also set to expire, and according to other LYGF members, they were paid in full what was stated in their contracts by the time it ended. Just because people with money back out of SC esports, does not mean you should hate them. The toxicity in this community is just insane, its saddening. Look what happened with LG and IM, even though they backed out, I still thanked them for sponsoring many of my favorite players for a year and now have a favorable opinion towards their brand. This thread is seriously disgusting to read for the most part. Although I may retract this statement if it turns out the were not paid what they were owed, but honestly for them something was better than nothing. We should be grateful rather than hateful regardless in my opinion.
According to HTOMario he was never paid what he was owed.... the same goes for other players who left the team because of it. Pascal put a post on the website saying those players were paid, but this is apparently a lie.
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On March 18 2014 14:43 intense555 wrote:
This guy paid players out of his own pocket. He should be honored instead of w/e the people in this thread are saying. Even though he may not have always been responsible paying HTOMario and Bails on time, they still received money from him when other teams would not support those players. Same thing goes for Tassadar, Genius, and the rest of the players on LYGF. Honestly with all the hate he received simply over the team's name, it makes sense that he would back out of starcraft. Thanks to your guys' negative skepticism, at least 5 less starcraft players are receiving a salary. Its even worse that he may have a terminal heart illness, even though this could be an excuse to minimize criticism, it would be terrible if this is true. He is a nice honest guy from the interactions I have had with him at least. These players' contracts were also set to expire, and according to other LYGF members, they were paid in full what was stated in their contracts by the time it ended. Just because people with money back out of SC esports, does not mean you should hate them. The toxicity in this community is just insane, its saddening. Look what happened with LG and IM, even though they backed out, I still thanked them for sponsoring many of my favorite players for a year and now have a favorable opinion towards their brand. This thread is seriously disgusting to read for the most part. Although I may retract this statement if it turns out the were not paid what they were owed, but honestly for them something was better than nothing. We should be grateful rather than hateful regardless in my opinion.
lol so its ok to screw over your employees if you are paying them out of your own pocket? Many of these players passed up other opportunities and relied on lygf for payment. They could have been on other teams getting paid on time, had a personal sponsor, or even retired and moved on to something else. Instead they relied on a team who hired them only to have late payments or money still owed. It is unacceptable in any business to not pay your employees promptly as agreed, being an esports team does not make that ok....
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On March 18 2014 14:01 MichaelDonovan wrote:Show nested quote +On March 18 2014 13:51 Zanzabarr wrote:On March 18 2014 13:18 MichaelDonovan wrote:On March 18 2014 12:35 knOxStarcraft wrote:On March 18 2014 10:05 MichaelDonovan wrote:On March 18 2014 09:47 knOxStarcraft wrote:On March 18 2014 09:04 MichaelDonovan wrote:On March 18 2014 08:57 knOxStarcraft wrote:On March 18 2014 08:44 MichaelDonovan wrote:On March 18 2014 08:38 knOxStarcraft wrote:
[quote]
I would consider players getting scammed as being a detriment to the scene, and in turn the community, wouldn't you? I was just defending the skeptics, because I'm still very skeptical of the whole thing. Will you apologize if he is actually scamming everyone? I don't give a crap either way, I wonder why you do. To your first point, maybe, but I think in comparison, the players who were on the team getting scammed were the ones getting fucked. A weaker term needs to be used when it comes to the impact on the community since the two states of fuckedness can't be compared. Like doing work and not getting your salary, that's getting fucked. Being lied to and having less faith in starcraft teams? That's not really getting fucked. In addition, it is not skepticism with regards to the issue that I am saying is wrong. What I think is wrong is posting about it in the thread announcing somebody's terminal illness. It's fine to be skeptical, but it's not okay to post about it here. Some things are better left unsaid. I have no reason to apologize if it turns out that this man is actually lying and is not on his deathbed because giving people the benefit of the doubt before evidence is gathered is not wrong. Hell, even being skeptical isn't really wrong. What's wrong is publicizing that skepticism. It's tasteless and disrespectful. I'm not seeing how people posting that they're skeptical on a public forum is wrong, tasteless, or disrespectful. I guess its just a matter of opinion at this point, we obviously have differing thoughts on what's right and what's wrong regarding issues like this. Well imagine that you're on your deathbed and you announce to TeamLiquid, "Hey guys I'm dying etc. I won't be posting anymore. Sorry. Goodbye." And half of the people in the thread are like "Oh yeah I bet he just got tired of starcraft and doesn't want to have to talk to us anymore. I really don't believe you're dying dude, but nice try." Lol there's no motive to lie in that case and anyone who would actually post that would have been around a long time and known by people on TL, like a close friend, which changes the situation completely. Obviously if I know someone well and they tell me they're dying I'm going to believe them. That's beside the point. We're not talking about whether or not this situation is likely. It's a completely different situation to the one we're talking about so I don't see how it's relevant. Regardless, having a neutral stance isn't the same as betting that he's lying, so I don't really see what point you're trying to make here. edit: fixed added word Ugh okay nope. I'm done with you. Lol I thought you were done with the Teamliquid.net community 14 posts ago? Doubtful. What I mean is that I no longer consider myself a part of your community. I will continue to lurk and if I see people who need to be set straight I will post in order to do so, if I'm bored enough, that is. But I no longer identify myself as one of you. That probably doesn't make sense. Basically all I mean is that my attitude toward the TL.net/Starcraft community has changed. I don't much care for most of you anymore and I don't want to be lumped into the rest of you. I will post if I feel like it, but I will do so as an outsider.
You're my hero, setting all these wrong doers straight. Even though you don't much care for most of the community you spend your very valuable "bored" time mopping up the mess of disrespect and wickedness that wrong doers spew all over TL because these evil mods won't lift a finger. Lets all give this man a round of applause!
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Most people probably saw this coming from the start the team was set up, but I do not think we can argue about things we don't know about, such as paying on time and other.
I hope the players will find a proper new team, and if the manager is ill, that he gets better soon.
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Northern Ireland27480 Posts
I'm just sad that Michael will be more infrequently descending from his lofty perch to impart his wisdom.
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On March 18 2014 15:43 knOxStarcraft wrote:Show nested quote +On March 18 2014 14:01 MichaelDonovan wrote:On March 18 2014 13:51 Zanzabarr wrote:On March 18 2014 13:18 MichaelDonovan wrote:On March 18 2014 12:35 knOxStarcraft wrote:On March 18 2014 10:05 MichaelDonovan wrote:On March 18 2014 09:47 knOxStarcraft wrote:On March 18 2014 09:04 MichaelDonovan wrote:On March 18 2014 08:57 knOxStarcraft wrote:On March 18 2014 08:44 MichaelDonovan wrote:
[quote]
To your first point, maybe, but I think in comparison, the players who were on the team getting scammed were the ones getting fucked. A weaker term needs to be used when it comes to the impact on the community since the two states of fuckedness can't be compared. Like doing work and not getting your salary, that's getting fucked. Being lied to and having less faith in starcraft teams? That's not really getting fucked.
In addition, it is not skepticism with regards to the issue that I am saying is wrong. What I think is wrong is posting about it in the thread announcing somebody's terminal illness. It's fine to be skeptical, but it's not okay to post about it here. Some things are better left unsaid.
I have no reason to apologize if it turns out that this man is actually lying and is not on his deathbed because giving people the benefit of the doubt before evidence is gathered is not wrong. Hell, even being skeptical isn't really wrong. What's wrong is publicizing that skepticism. It's tasteless and disrespectful.
I'm not seeing how people posting that they're skeptical on a public forum is wrong, tasteless, or disrespectful. I guess its just a matter of opinion at this point, we obviously have differing thoughts on what's right and what's wrong regarding issues like this. Well imagine that you're on your deathbed and you announce to TeamLiquid, "Hey guys I'm dying etc. I won't be posting anymore. Sorry. Goodbye." And half of the people in the thread are like "Oh yeah I bet he just got tired of starcraft and doesn't want to have to talk to us anymore. I really don't believe you're dying dude, but nice try." Lol there's no motive to lie in that case and anyone who would actually post that would have been around a long time and known by people on TL, like a close friend, which changes the situation completely. Obviously if I know someone well and they tell me they're dying I'm going to believe them. That's beside the point. We're not talking about whether or not this situation is likely. It's a completely different situation to the one we're talking about so I don't see how it's relevant. Regardless, having a neutral stance isn't the same as betting that he's lying, so I don't really see what point you're trying to make here. edit: fixed added word Ugh okay nope. I'm done with you. Lol I thought you were done with the Teamliquid.net community 14 posts ago? Doubtful. What I mean is that I no longer consider myself a part of your community. I will continue to lurk and if I see people who need to be set straight I will post in order to do so, if I'm bored enough, that is. But I no longer identify myself as one of you. That probably doesn't make sense. Basically all I mean is that my attitude toward the TL.net/Starcraft community has changed. I don't much care for most of you anymore and I don't want to be lumped into the rest of you. I will post if I feel like it, but I will do so as an outsider. You're my hero, setting all these wrong doers straight. Even though you don't much care for most of the community you spend your very valuable "bored" time mopping up the mess of disrespect and wickedness that wrong doers spew all over TL because these evil mods won't lift a finger. Lets all give this man a round of applause!
Because I'm the hero TL.net deserves, but not the one it needs right now.
You either die a hero, or you live long enough to see yourself become the villain.
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On March 19 2014 01:21 MichaelDonovan wrote:Show nested quote +On March 18 2014 15:43 knOxStarcraft wrote:On March 18 2014 14:01 MichaelDonovan wrote:On March 18 2014 13:51 Zanzabarr wrote:On March 18 2014 13:18 MichaelDonovan wrote:On March 18 2014 12:35 knOxStarcraft wrote:On March 18 2014 10:05 MichaelDonovan wrote:On March 18 2014 09:47 knOxStarcraft wrote:On March 18 2014 09:04 MichaelDonovan wrote:On March 18 2014 08:57 knOxStarcraft wrote:
[quote]
I'm not seeing how people posting that they're skeptical on a public forum is wrong, tasteless, or disrespectful. I guess its just a matter of opinion at this point, we obviously have differing thoughts on what's right and what's wrong regarding issues like this. Well imagine that you're on your deathbed and you announce to TeamLiquid, "Hey guys I'm dying etc. I won't be posting anymore. Sorry. Goodbye." And half of the people in the thread are like "Oh yeah I bet he just got tired of starcraft and doesn't want to have to talk to us anymore. I really don't believe you're dying dude, but nice try." Lol there's no motive to lie in that case and anyone who would actually post that would have been around a long time and known by people on TL, like a close friend, which changes the situation completely. Obviously if I know someone well and they tell me they're dying I'm going to believe them. That's beside the point. We're not talking about whether or not this situation is likely. It's a completely different situation to the one we're talking about so I don't see how it's relevant. Regardless, having a neutral stance isn't the same as betting that he's lying, so I don't really see what point you're trying to make here. edit: fixed added word Ugh okay nope. I'm done with you. Lol I thought you were done with the Teamliquid.net community 14 posts ago? Doubtful. What I mean is that I no longer consider myself a part of your community. I will continue to lurk and if I see people who need to be set straight I will post in order to do so, if I'm bored enough, that is. But I no longer identify myself as one of you. That probably doesn't make sense. Basically all I mean is that my attitude toward the TL.net/Starcraft community has changed. I don't much care for most of you anymore and I don't want to be lumped into the rest of you. I will post if I feel like it, but I will do so as an outsider. You're my hero, setting all these wrong doers straight. Even though you don't much care for most of the community you spend your very valuable "bored" time mopping up the mess of disrespect and wickedness that wrong doers spew all over TL because these evil mods won't lift a finger. Lets all give this man a round of applause! Because I'm the hero TL.net deserves, but not the one it needs right now. You either die a hero, or you live long enough to see yourself become the villain.
yeah yeah we get it you are something special. well played. now lets move on. elitism stinks.
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On March 19 2014 01:32 Kevin_Sorbo wrote:Show nested quote +On March 19 2014 01:21 MichaelDonovan wrote:On March 18 2014 15:43 knOxStarcraft wrote:On March 18 2014 14:01 MichaelDonovan wrote:On March 18 2014 13:51 Zanzabarr wrote:On March 18 2014 13:18 MichaelDonovan wrote:On March 18 2014 12:35 knOxStarcraft wrote:On March 18 2014 10:05 MichaelDonovan wrote:On March 18 2014 09:47 knOxStarcraft wrote:On March 18 2014 09:04 MichaelDonovan wrote:
[quote]
Well imagine that you're on your deathbed and you announce to TeamLiquid, "Hey guys I'm dying etc. I won't be posting anymore. Sorry. Goodbye."
And half of the people in the thread are like "Oh yeah I bet he just got tired of starcraft and doesn't want to have to talk to us anymore. I really don't believe you're dying dude, but nice try." Lol there's no motive to lie in that case and anyone who would actually post that would have been around a long time and known by people on TL, like a close friend, which changes the situation completely. Obviously if I know someone well and they tell me they're dying I'm going to believe them. That's beside the point. We're not talking about whether or not this situation is likely. It's a completely different situation to the one we're talking about so I don't see how it's relevant. Regardless, having a neutral stance isn't the same as betting that he's lying, so I don't really see what point you're trying to make here. edit: fixed added word Ugh okay nope. I'm done with you. Lol I thought you were done with the Teamliquid.net community 14 posts ago? Doubtful. What I mean is that I no longer consider myself a part of your community. I will continue to lurk and if I see people who need to be set straight I will post in order to do so, if I'm bored enough, that is. But I no longer identify myself as one of you. That probably doesn't make sense. Basically all I mean is that my attitude toward the TL.net/Starcraft community has changed. I don't much care for most of you anymore and I don't want to be lumped into the rest of you. I will post if I feel like it, but I will do so as an outsider. You're my hero, setting all these wrong doers straight. Even though you don't much care for most of the community you spend your very valuable "bored" time mopping up the mess of disrespect and wickedness that wrong doers spew all over TL because these evil mods won't lift a finger. Lets all give this man a round of applause! Because I'm the hero TL.net deserves, but not the one it needs right now. You either die a hero, or you live long enough to see yourself become the villain. yeah yeah we get it you are something special. well played. now lets move on. elitism stinks.
Don't have to be elite to enjoy a batman reference...
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Isn't intense that baby that cries about protoss and BM'ed minigun on stream? lol..
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So, we're still going in circles here?
I don't know what's worse; is it making jokes, being skeptical, or monopolizing the discussion with the same point of view over and over and eventually ducking out when you realize practically nobody agrees with you?
Some of us are just here asking for some accountability and truth out of this team. They have, admittedly, been tied up in some sketchy activity and due to this, we're not all convinced by the sympathetic tone of the announcement. This is neither bad nor good; it's absolutely neutral. It's not meant as an insult to Pascal.
Please, nobody needs to be butthurt on the guy's behalf. The mods know what they're doing, and inappropriate posts have been hammered accordingly.
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On March 18 2014 21:00 Gianttt wrote:
Most people probably saw this coming from the start the team was set up, but I do not think we can argue about things we don't know about, such as paying on time and other.
I hope the players will find a proper new team, and if the manager is ill, that he gets better soon.
People don't typically recover from an illness once it's been labelled as terminal.
It's also pretty easy to know about whether or not the staff have been paid: you ask them, or you crack open the "books". If you don't ask questions, obviously you'll never know.You're right that it's pointless to argue, because in regards to the facts, there is only one truth.
Every time I look at this thread for an update on Pascal, or the team's financial situation, I see people literally arguing over the ethics of blind faith vs skepticism. It's basically a religion thread at this point.
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lol at this white knight guy still trying to uphold the integrity of the internet by raging, lecturing, and excoriating the unwashed masses. he's "done" with this place yet he's still posting. classic martyr knight behavior.
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On March 19 2014 03:04 fishjie wrote:
lol at this white knight guy still trying to uphold the integrity of the internet by raging, lecturing, and excoriating the unwashed masses. he's "done" with this place yet he's still posting. classic martyr knight behavior.
I'm just bored bro. But stop making fun of me it's hurting my feelings. I may shed a single tear which the camera will watch from below as it falls to the floor in slow motion.
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Besides, Liquid just announced a surprise smash bros melee team and they have KEN. Ken mother fuckers. I can't leave this community now. They have fucking Ken are you kidding me what the fuck.
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On March 19 2014 03:20 MichaelDonovan wrote:
Besides, Liquid just announced a surprise smash bros melee team and they have KEN. Ken mother fuckers. I can't leave this community now. They have fucking Ken are you kidding me what the fuck.
so easily are your principles overshadowed...
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On March 19 2014 07:31 dAPhREAk wrote:Show nested quote +On March 19 2014 03:20 MichaelDonovan wrote:
Besides, Liquid just announced a surprise smash bros melee team and they have KEN. Ken mother fuckers. I can't leave this community now. They have fucking Ken are you kidding me what the fuck. so easily are your principles overshadowed...
Ken overshadows all.
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I played the manager [LYGF] Alizée in a 2v2 ladder game yesterday. Atleast he still has the condition to play some games ^_^
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On March 19 2014 03:18 MichaelDonovan wrote:Show nested quote +On March 19 2014 03:04 fishjie wrote:
lol at this white knight guy still trying to uphold the integrity of the internet by raging, lecturing, and excoriating the unwashed masses. he's "done" with this place yet he's still posting. classic martyr knight behavior. I'm just bored bro. But stop making fun of me it's hurting my feelings. I may shed a single tear which the camera will watch from below as it falls to the floor in slow motion.
You guys are pretty hilarious. Anyone want to host a grudge match?
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Considering no one has actually been paid by the guy "paying players out of his own pocket" doesn't actually mean anything. It's just another example of a questionably unethical person taking advantage of younger people's naivete and getting their services for free.
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On March 20 2014 11:52 las91 wrote:
Considering no one has actually been paid by the guy "paying players out of his own pocket" doesn't actually mean anything. It's just another example of a questionably unethical person taking advantage of younger people's naivete and getting their services for free.
where are you getting this no one has been paid info? i heard of mario not getting a payment, but i havent heard about everyone.
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EPT
