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On December 04 2013 05:38 Squat wrote:Show nested quote +On December 04 2013 05:34 Zealously wrote:On December 04 2013 05:26 arb wrote:
Lets hope he quits all together rand joins SoPSA Yes because that's clearly very likely Duh, as soon as he finds a BW team that will pay him what EG does and get him the same benefits, he's gone. Wait, what?
Stack enough Time Warps and Vortexes to create a portal into the past, back to 2009 when mech ruled the land and TL.net looked so very 2005.
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On December 04 2013 05:22 MstrJinbo wrote:Show nested quote +On December 04 2013 04:09 Thieving Magpie wrote:On December 04 2013 03:20 boxerfred wrote:On December 04 2013 01:27 StarStruck wrote:
boxerfred,
we just pointed out how useless your opinion was and invalid some of your points were. You cannot bitch and moan about something that takes place at a time less than ideal for you because over there the time is good for them. This point is saying, the world should revolve around you. Get over yourself.
As for the idea of faceless Koreans. Over there and to a lot of other people they aren't faceless. Stop projecting. You bitch about times yet you watch the GSTL, which has a similar schedule to PL and the OSL. Once again, get over yourself.
Furthermore, the OSL and PL Korean production showcases the actual players if you know Korean. Like I said before, they use everything from player theme music, to pre match interviews to playback interviews with the players. If you don't think this helps expose the players more than I don't know what to say to you. So you don't understand Korean. Too bad. From the odd time I did hear what they were saying there was some translation, but you don't like SNM. Oh well. Once again you are entitled to have a opinion, but there just isn't a lot of substance to such claims and it's more reflective of you as a person. Hey man, an opinion can't and will never be invalid, that's the point of an opinion. What you are talking about is an argumentatio or a stand point which I am not making or taking. I am not saying that the world should rotate solely around me, but since this is a comment section, I am making a comment. Yes, over there, the players are not faceless. Over there, I guess they don't even need a translator. But since I (I am very sorry for that and excuse seriously at this point) was born in Germany and never made it to Korea (nor did I do any attempt to learn the language, I am sorry!), those guys appear 'faceless' to me. Since they make money out of my viewing time, it's their task to make me stay, not my task to make myself more entertained. That's the point of 'viewing'. I do not 'bitch' about time. I was talking about the schedule, which is bad for me. As well as GSTL schedule - so what? Since I did decide to watch GSTL, I could make it past my time restrictions at certain times. And since there are other reasons (for me!) to not watch PL as often as GSTL, I do not watch it that often. Also, I am not saying that OSL or PL ever did a shitty job at production. Introducing players, doing interviews, having theme music, all this is a sign of great production and I do respect that. But, for completely subjective reasons like "I do not like the color, I do not like the music, I do not like whatever the hell you are showing", I do not like it. Imagine you're at a museum (casually), and look at some great impressionists. You like it. Then you go for old greek paintings and just decide to not like the art because of the style. Your decision, your opinion. Not everyone's opinion, but so what? You can still go to a bar (which is, in this comparison, the comment section of this thread) and say "Oh well, didn't like that." Noone would say you're a worse or better person because of that, though some people would of course question your taste, just like you did - oh wait, you didn't. You're saying it tells a lot about me as a person. If you think so, oh well, I can deal with that. I just want to say that your post appears to be a bit like "I'm a fan and you just insulted the subject of my joy". If I did, I'm sorry. Didn't mean to by any means. Please read my first post again and show me exactly the point where I went full "EVERYTHING'S REVOLVING AROUND ME GO FOR IT MY OPINION IS RIGHT AND YOU ALL SUCK DICK" - if you can find it, I'll excuse seriously. To have an opinion, you need to have one thing. A mind. So for whatever reasons I do have my opinion, it is still my opinion. Not yours, not everyone else's, but who the hell cares? If you like PL, go enjoy it, watch it, have all the fun in the world. I'm not staying behind you and whispering in your ear "oh this is so crappy", though it seems like your have read my post as if that was the case. Not that I want to contradict your point, but I just wanted to point out a problem with your logic. You disliking something = Opinion You accusing someone of being faceless =/= Opinion An opinion is a personal belief or idea that describes your personal experience with an object, person, or event. When you begin projecting descriptions on others/objects then you are no longer talking about you subjective experience with them. There is a big difference between saying "I find him boring" versus "he is faceless." Saying you find someone boring says that you are at fault for being unable to connect to him. Calling someone faceless says that the object in question is at fault for not seeking you out. The truth is that neither you nor the object *have* to seek each other out. If you want to connect to said Korean, you should reach out to them by either learning Korean or reading lots of interviews. If the Korean thinks its important to learn english and wear costumes to play exotic monkey to white people, it is up to him to make the decision. When you start projecting what you want the koreans to do by calling them faceless and whining about how your German and germans don't need to learn Korean; it makes you sound a bit too midwest american for my book. Your allowed to have your opinion. You're allowed to find people who don't look like you to be boring. But when you start saying that they should change to fit your standards, that they don't have personalities, that they don't seem human just because they're different than you--then you start going down a pretty dark path. "Faceless Korean" is kind of a tactless label for Korean players that haven't distinguished themselves from the rest. It has nothing to do with personality. Flash hasnt tried to court foreign fans as much as DRG or MC,but Nobody would call Flash a faceless Korean because he's goddam Flash. Leenock and Life aren't seen as faceless Koreans even though in interviews they would give the exact same answers as Jjakji or Alive or Sniper. But they they've come to foreign tournaments and won and they are still high school students so their story is very relatable for a lot of people. Those kind of stories don't come out much for your average Korean. They get a winners interview which are so generic it's comical (hamburgers...) and an awkward trophy presentation.
I do agree on the faceless korean topic. I used those words inappropiately. For me, a 'faceless korean' is a generic top level korean player that I do not enjoy to watch because of the lack of personality/lack of knowledge about/generic other reason. As much as Elfi and Sjow are 'faceless foreigners' to me, Genius and Patience are 'faceless koreans' to me. Sorry for the missuse, might have created a huge missunderstanding there. I hope that cleared it up.
I still disagree with 100% of what Starstruck is saying, reading his posts kinda feels like a TL veteran with 22k posts is pissed because I dared to say PL sucks. Though I never said this.
Edit: I'll enjoy the players I want to enjoy, and having to prove my point is really making me tired. Just accept my opinion and sort it into "fuck that guy he's stupid anyways" if you want to, but just leave me alone now  .
Edit #2: I will always enjoy a Dreamhack more than a GSL/OSL Ro32, too. #shameOnMe
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On December 04 2013 05:58 boxerfred wrote:Show nested quote +On December 04 2013 05:22 MstrJinbo wrote:On December 04 2013 04:09 Thieving Magpie wrote:On December 04 2013 03:20 boxerfred wrote:On December 04 2013 01:27 StarStruck wrote:
boxerfred,
we just pointed out how useless your opinion was and invalid some of your points were. You cannot bitch and moan about something that takes place at a time less than ideal for you because over there the time is good for them. This point is saying, the world should revolve around you. Get over yourself.
As for the idea of faceless Koreans. Over there and to a lot of other people they aren't faceless. Stop projecting. You bitch about times yet you watch the GSTL, which has a similar schedule to PL and the OSL. Once again, get over yourself.
Furthermore, the OSL and PL Korean production showcases the actual players if you know Korean. Like I said before, they use everything from player theme music, to pre match interviews to playback interviews with the players. If you don't think this helps expose the players more than I don't know what to say to you. So you don't understand Korean. Too bad. From the odd time I did hear what they were saying there was some translation, but you don't like SNM. Oh well. Once again you are entitled to have a opinion, but there just isn't a lot of substance to such claims and it's more reflective of you as a person. Hey man, an opinion can't and will never be invalid, that's the point of an opinion. What you are talking about is an argumentatio or a stand point which I am not making or taking. I am not saying that the world should rotate solely around me, but since this is a comment section, I am making a comment. Yes, over there, the players are not faceless. Over there, I guess they don't even need a translator. But since I (I am very sorry for that and excuse seriously at this point) was born in Germany and never made it to Korea (nor did I do any attempt to learn the language, I am sorry!), those guys appear 'faceless' to me. Since they make money out of my viewing time, it's their task to make me stay, not my task to make myself more entertained. That's the point of 'viewing'. I do not 'bitch' about time. I was talking about the schedule, which is bad for me. As well as GSTL schedule - so what? Since I did decide to watch GSTL, I could make it past my time restrictions at certain times. And since there are other reasons (for me!) to not watch PL as often as GSTL, I do not watch it that often. Also, I am not saying that OSL or PL ever did a shitty job at production. Introducing players, doing interviews, having theme music, all this is a sign of great production and I do respect that. But, for completely subjective reasons like "I do not like the color, I do not like the music, I do not like whatever the hell you are showing", I do not like it. Imagine you're at a museum (casually), and look at some great impressionists. You like it. Then you go for old greek paintings and just decide to not like the art because of the style. Your decision, your opinion. Not everyone's opinion, but so what? You can still go to a bar (which is, in this comparison, the comment section of this thread) and say "Oh well, didn't like that." Noone would say you're a worse or better person because of that, though some people would of course question your taste, just like you did - oh wait, you didn't. You're saying it tells a lot about me as a person. If you think so, oh well, I can deal with that. I just want to say that your post appears to be a bit like "I'm a fan and you just insulted the subject of my joy". If I did, I'm sorry. Didn't mean to by any means. Please read my first post again and show me exactly the point where I went full "EVERYTHING'S REVOLVING AROUND ME GO FOR IT MY OPINION IS RIGHT AND YOU ALL SUCK DICK" - if you can find it, I'll excuse seriously. To have an opinion, you need to have one thing. A mind. So for whatever reasons I do have my opinion, it is still my opinion. Not yours, not everyone else's, but who the hell cares? If you like PL, go enjoy it, watch it, have all the fun in the world. I'm not staying behind you and whispering in your ear "oh this is so crappy", though it seems like your have read my post as if that was the case. Not that I want to contradict your point, but I just wanted to point out a problem with your logic. You disliking something = Opinion You accusing someone of being faceless =/= Opinion An opinion is a personal belief or idea that describes your personal experience with an object, person, or event. When you begin projecting descriptions on others/objects then you are no longer talking about you subjective experience with them. There is a big difference between saying "I find him boring" versus "he is faceless." Saying you find someone boring says that you are at fault for being unable to connect to him. Calling someone faceless says that the object in question is at fault for not seeking you out. The truth is that neither you nor the object *have* to seek each other out. If you want to connect to said Korean, you should reach out to them by either learning Korean or reading lots of interviews. If the Korean thinks its important to learn english and wear costumes to play exotic monkey to white people, it is up to him to make the decision. When you start projecting what you want the koreans to do by calling them faceless and whining about how your German and germans don't need to learn Korean; it makes you sound a bit too midwest american for my book. Your allowed to have your opinion. You're allowed to find people who don't look like you to be boring. But when you start saying that they should change to fit your standards, that they don't have personalities, that they don't seem human just because they're different than you--then you start going down a pretty dark path. "Faceless Korean" is kind of a tactless label for Korean players that haven't distinguished themselves from the rest. It has nothing to do with personality. Flash hasnt tried to court foreign fans as much as DRG or MC,but Nobody would call Flash a faceless Korean because he's goddam Flash. Leenock and Life aren't seen as faceless Koreans even though in interviews they would give the exact same answers as Jjakji or Alive or Sniper. But they they've come to foreign tournaments and won and they are still high school students so their story is very relatable for a lot of people. Those kind of stories don't come out much for your average Korean. They get a winners interview which are so generic it's comical (hamburgers...) and an awkward trophy presentation. I do agree on the faceless korean topic. I used those words inappropiately. For me, a 'faceless korean' is a generic top level korean player that I do not enjoy to watch because of the lack of personality/lack of knowledge about/generic other reason. As much as Elfi and Sjow are 'faceless foreigners' to me, Genius and Patience are 'faceless koreans' to me. Sorry for the missuse, might have created a huge missunderstanding there. I hope that cleared it up. I still disagree with 100% of what Starstruck is saying, reading his posts kinda feels like a TL veteran with 22k posts is pissed because I dared to say PL sucks. Though I never said this. Edit: I'll enjoy the players I want to enjoy, and having to prove my point is really making me tired. Just accept my opinion and sort it into "fuck that guy he's stupid anyways" if you want to, but just leave me alone now .
he sort of likes koreans.he also is against region locking.the reason he went of on you is cause you called the koreans faceless.pl is just his excuse to vent.he also sort of hates foreigners to a certain degree...
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On December 04 2013 05:58 boxerfred wrote:Show nested quote +On December 04 2013 05:22 MstrJinbo wrote:On December 04 2013 04:09 Thieving Magpie wrote:On December 04 2013 03:20 boxerfred wrote:On December 04 2013 01:27 StarStruck wrote:
boxerfred,
we just pointed out how useless your opinion was and invalid some of your points were. You cannot bitch and moan about something that takes place at a time less than ideal for you because over there the time is good for them. This point is saying, the world should revolve around you. Get over yourself.
As for the idea of faceless Koreans. Over there and to a lot of other people they aren't faceless. Stop projecting. You bitch about times yet you watch the GSTL, which has a similar schedule to PL and the OSL. Once again, get over yourself.
Furthermore, the OSL and PL Korean production showcases the actual players if you know Korean. Like I said before, they use everything from player theme music, to pre match interviews to playback interviews with the players. If you don't think this helps expose the players more than I don't know what to say to you. So you don't understand Korean. Too bad. From the odd time I did hear what they were saying there was some translation, but you don't like SNM. Oh well. Once again you are entitled to have a opinion, but there just isn't a lot of substance to such claims and it's more reflective of you as a person. Hey man, an opinion can't and will never be invalid, that's the point of an opinion. What you are talking about is an argumentatio or a stand point which I am not making or taking. I am not saying that the world should rotate solely around me, but since this is a comment section, I am making a comment. Yes, over there, the players are not faceless. Over there, I guess they don't even need a translator. But since I (I am very sorry for that and excuse seriously at this point) was born in Germany and never made it to Korea (nor did I do any attempt to learn the language, I am sorry!), those guys appear 'faceless' to me. Since they make money out of my viewing time, it's their task to make me stay, not my task to make myself more entertained. That's the point of 'viewing'. I do not 'bitch' about time. I was talking about the schedule, which is bad for me. As well as GSTL schedule - so what? Since I did decide to watch GSTL, I could make it past my time restrictions at certain times. And since there are other reasons (for me!) to not watch PL as often as GSTL, I do not watch it that often. Also, I am not saying that OSL or PL ever did a shitty job at production. Introducing players, doing interviews, having theme music, all this is a sign of great production and I do respect that. But, for completely subjective reasons like "I do not like the color, I do not like the music, I do not like whatever the hell you are showing", I do not like it. Imagine you're at a museum (casually), and look at some great impressionists. You like it. Then you go for old greek paintings and just decide to not like the art because of the style. Your decision, your opinion. Not everyone's opinion, but so what? You can still go to a bar (which is, in this comparison, the comment section of this thread) and say "Oh well, didn't like that." Noone would say you're a worse or better person because of that, though some people would of course question your taste, just like you did - oh wait, you didn't. You're saying it tells a lot about me as a person. If you think so, oh well, I can deal with that. I just want to say that your post appears to be a bit like "I'm a fan and you just insulted the subject of my joy". If I did, I'm sorry. Didn't mean to by any means. Please read my first post again and show me exactly the point where I went full "EVERYTHING'S REVOLVING AROUND ME GO FOR IT MY OPINION IS RIGHT AND YOU ALL SUCK DICK" - if you can find it, I'll excuse seriously. To have an opinion, you need to have one thing. A mind. So for whatever reasons I do have my opinion, it is still my opinion. Not yours, not everyone else's, but who the hell cares? If you like PL, go enjoy it, watch it, have all the fun in the world. I'm not staying behind you and whispering in your ear "oh this is so crappy", though it seems like your have read my post as if that was the case. Not that I want to contradict your point, but I just wanted to point out a problem with your logic. You disliking something = Opinion You accusing someone of being faceless =/= Opinion An opinion is a personal belief or idea that describes your personal experience with an object, person, or event. When you begin projecting descriptions on others/objects then you are no longer talking about you subjective experience with them. There is a big difference between saying "I find him boring" versus "he is faceless." Saying you find someone boring says that you are at fault for being unable to connect to him. Calling someone faceless says that the object in question is at fault for not seeking you out. The truth is that neither you nor the object *have* to seek each other out. If you want to connect to said Korean, you should reach out to them by either learning Korean or reading lots of interviews. If the Korean thinks its important to learn english and wear costumes to play exotic monkey to white people, it is up to him to make the decision. When you start projecting what you want the koreans to do by calling them faceless and whining about how your German and germans don't need to learn Korean; it makes you sound a bit too midwest american for my book. Your allowed to have your opinion. You're allowed to find people who don't look like you to be boring. But when you start saying that they should change to fit your standards, that they don't have personalities, that they don't seem human just because they're different than you--then you start going down a pretty dark path. "Faceless Korean" is kind of a tactless label for Korean players that haven't distinguished themselves from the rest. It has nothing to do with personality. Flash hasnt tried to court foreign fans as much as DRG or MC,but Nobody would call Flash a faceless Korean because he's goddam Flash. Leenock and Life aren't seen as faceless Koreans even though in interviews they would give the exact same answers as Jjakji or Alive or Sniper. But they they've come to foreign tournaments and won and they are still high school students so their story is very relatable for a lot of people. Those kind of stories don't come out much for your average Korean. They get a winners interview which are so generic it's comical (hamburgers...) and an awkward trophy presentation. I do agree on the faceless korean topic. I used those words inappropiately. For me, a 'faceless korean' is a generic top level korean player that I do not enjoy to watch because of the lack of personality/lack of knowledge about/generic other reason. As much as Elfi and Sjow are 'faceless foreigners' to me, Genius and Patience are 'faceless koreans' to me. Sorry for the missuse, might have created a huge missunderstanding there. I hope that cleared it up. I still disagree with 100% of what Starstruck is saying, reading his posts kinda feels like a TL veteran with 22k posts is pissed because I dared to say PL sucks. Though I never said this. Edit: I'll enjoy the players I want to enjoy, and having to prove my point is really making me tired. Just accept my opinion and sort it into "fuck that guy he's stupid anyways" if you want to, but just leave me alone now . Edit #2: I will always enjoy a Dreamhack more than a GSL/OSL Ro32, too. #shameOnMe
That's not what I said at all lmao. I don't care that you think PL sucks. That is a fair opinion to have. You can shit on the casters and the production all you want. The two things I brought up was with regards to the timing and the idea you are now willing to accept. I have no problem with you enjoying players you want to enjoy and like, but please be a little more careful when we start labeling people as faceless.
On December 04 2013 06:03 perfidiusrex wrote:Show nested quote +On December 04 2013 05:58 boxerfred wrote:On December 04 2013 05:22 MstrJinbo wrote:On December 04 2013 04:09 Thieving Magpie wrote:On December 04 2013 03:20 boxerfred wrote:On December 04 2013 01:27 StarStruck wrote:
boxerfred,
we just pointed out how useless your opinion was and invalid some of your points were. You cannot bitch and moan about something that takes place at a time less than ideal for you because over there the time is good for them. This point is saying, the world should revolve around you. Get over yourself.
As for the idea of faceless Koreans. Over there and to a lot of other people they aren't faceless. Stop projecting. You bitch about times yet you watch the GSTL, which has a similar schedule to PL and the OSL. Once again, get over yourself.
Furthermore, the OSL and PL Korean production showcases the actual players if you know Korean. Like I said before, they use everything from player theme music, to pre match interviews to playback interviews with the players. If you don't think this helps expose the players more than I don't know what to say to you. So you don't understand Korean. Too bad. From the odd time I did hear what they were saying there was some translation, but you don't like SNM. Oh well. Once again you are entitled to have a opinion, but there just isn't a lot of substance to such claims and it's more reflective of you as a person. Hey man, an opinion can't and will never be invalid, that's the point of an opinion. What you are talking about is an argumentatio or a stand point which I am not making or taking. I am not saying that the world should rotate solely around me, but since this is a comment section, I am making a comment. Yes, over there, the players are not faceless. Over there, I guess they don't even need a translator. But since I (I am very sorry for that and excuse seriously at this point) was born in Germany and never made it to Korea (nor did I do any attempt to learn the language, I am sorry!), those guys appear 'faceless' to me. Since they make money out of my viewing time, it's their task to make me stay, not my task to make myself more entertained. That's the point of 'viewing'. I do not 'bitch' about time. I was talking about the schedule, which is bad for me. As well as GSTL schedule - so what? Since I did decide to watch GSTL, I could make it past my time restrictions at certain times. And since there are other reasons (for me!) to not watch PL as often as GSTL, I do not watch it that often. Also, I am not saying that OSL or PL ever did a shitty job at production. Introducing players, doing interviews, having theme music, all this is a sign of great production and I do respect that. But, for completely subjective reasons like "I do not like the color, I do not like the music, I do not like whatever the hell you are showing", I do not like it. Imagine you're at a museum (casually), and look at some great impressionists. You like it. Then you go for old greek paintings and just decide to not like the art because of the style. Your decision, your opinion. Not everyone's opinion, but so what? You can still go to a bar (which is, in this comparison, the comment section of this thread) and say "Oh well, didn't like that." Noone would say you're a worse or better person because of that, though some people would of course question your taste, just like you did - oh wait, you didn't. You're saying it tells a lot about me as a person. If you think so, oh well, I can deal with that. I just want to say that your post appears to be a bit like "I'm a fan and you just insulted the subject of my joy". If I did, I'm sorry. Didn't mean to by any means. Please read my first post again and show me exactly the point where I went full "EVERYTHING'S REVOLVING AROUND ME GO FOR IT MY OPINION IS RIGHT AND YOU ALL SUCK DICK" - if you can find it, I'll excuse seriously. To have an opinion, you need to have one thing. A mind. So for whatever reasons I do have my opinion, it is still my opinion. Not yours, not everyone else's, but who the hell cares? If you like PL, go enjoy it, watch it, have all the fun in the world. I'm not staying behind you and whispering in your ear "oh this is so crappy", though it seems like your have read my post as if that was the case. Not that I want to contradict your point, but I just wanted to point out a problem with your logic. You disliking something = Opinion You accusing someone of being faceless =/= Opinion An opinion is a personal belief or idea that describes your personal experience with an object, person, or event. When you begin projecting descriptions on others/objects then you are no longer talking about you subjective experience with them. There is a big difference between saying "I find him boring" versus "he is faceless." Saying you find someone boring says that you are at fault for being unable to connect to him. Calling someone faceless says that the object in question is at fault for not seeking you out. The truth is that neither you nor the object *have* to seek each other out. If you want to connect to said Korean, you should reach out to them by either learning Korean or reading lots of interviews. If the Korean thinks its important to learn english and wear costumes to play exotic monkey to white people, it is up to him to make the decision. When you start projecting what you want the koreans to do by calling them faceless and whining about how your German and germans don't need to learn Korean; it makes you sound a bit too midwest american for my book. Your allowed to have your opinion. You're allowed to find people who don't look like you to be boring. But when you start saying that they should change to fit your standards, that they don't have personalities, that they don't seem human just because they're different than you--then you start going down a pretty dark path. "Faceless Korean" is kind of a tactless label for Korean players that haven't distinguished themselves from the rest. It has nothing to do with personality. Flash hasnt tried to court foreign fans as much as DRG or MC,but Nobody would call Flash a faceless Korean because he's goddam Flash. Leenock and Life aren't seen as faceless Koreans even though in interviews they would give the exact same answers as Jjakji or Alive or Sniper. But they they've come to foreign tournaments and won and they are still high school students so their story is very relatable for a lot of people. Those kind of stories don't come out much for your average Korean. They get a winners interview which are so generic it's comical (hamburgers...) and an awkward trophy presentation. I do agree on the faceless korean topic. I used those words inappropiately. For me, a 'faceless korean' is a generic top level korean player that I do not enjoy to watch because of the lack of personality/lack of knowledge about/generic other reason. As much as Elfi and Sjow are 'faceless foreigners' to me, Genius and Patience are 'faceless koreans' to me. Sorry for the missuse, might have created a huge missunderstanding there. I hope that cleared it up. I still disagree with 100% of what Starstruck is saying, reading his posts kinda feels like a TL veteran with 22k posts is pissed because I dared to say PL sucks. Though I never said this. Edit: I'll enjoy the players I want to enjoy, and having to prove my point is really making me tired. Just accept my opinion and sort it into "fuck that guy he's stupid anyways" if you want to, but just leave me alone now . he sort of likes koreans.he also is against region locking.the reason he went of on you is cause you called the koreans faceless.pl is just his excuse to vent.he also sort of hates foreigners to a certain degree...
Um, how do I hate foreigners? I wouldn't generalize in this case. Yeah, I have a lot of posts and it would be tedious to go through them all, but contrary to your belief I'm actually a fan of a lot of foreigners and I give credit when it's due to everyone. I'm very unbiased in all sections of these forums and that wasn't my only point of attack. If you look at the system I'd like to pitch to Blizzard you'd see that it would actually be very beneficial to all players in terms of developing them, generating exposure and creating endless story lines.
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Excellent, 0 chance he goes anywhere else. He seems pretty happy on EG, especially with all the travel opportunities they give him. :D
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These Jaedong/Kespa announcements get more amusing every time they're posted...
I thought it was already established that his "lease" had absolutely no clause about him being forced to return to JinAir after a year, and that it wasn't even a lease because he was 100% contracted with EG. At most JinAir had some special clause for negotiations, but nothing binding.
It's basically been pure PR work from Kespa since last year.
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On December 04 2013 05:58 boxerfred wrote:Show nested quote +On December 04 2013 05:22 MstrJinbo wrote:On December 04 2013 04:09 Thieving Magpie wrote:On December 04 2013 03:20 boxerfred wrote:On December 04 2013 01:27 StarStruck wrote:
boxerfred,
we just pointed out how useless your opinion was and invalid some of your points were. You cannot bitch and moan about something that takes place at a time less than ideal for you because over there the time is good for them. This point is saying, the world should revolve around you. Get over yourself.
As for the idea of faceless Koreans. Over there and to a lot of other people they aren't faceless. Stop projecting. You bitch about times yet you watch the GSTL, which has a similar schedule to PL and the OSL. Once again, get over yourself.
Furthermore, the OSL and PL Korean production showcases the actual players if you know Korean. Like I said before, they use everything from player theme music, to pre match interviews to playback interviews with the players. If you don't think this helps expose the players more than I don't know what to say to you. So you don't understand Korean. Too bad. From the odd time I did hear what they were saying there was some translation, but you don't like SNM. Oh well. Once again you are entitled to have a opinion, but there just isn't a lot of substance to such claims and it's more reflective of you as a person. Hey man, an opinion can't and will never be invalid, that's the point of an opinion. What you are talking about is an argumentatio or a stand point which I am not making or taking. I am not saying that the world should rotate solely around me, but since this is a comment section, I am making a comment. Yes, over there, the players are not faceless. Over there, I guess they don't even need a translator. But since I (I am very sorry for that and excuse seriously at this point) was born in Germany and never made it to Korea (nor did I do any attempt to learn the language, I am sorry!), those guys appear 'faceless' to me. Since they make money out of my viewing time, it's their task to make me stay, not my task to make myself more entertained. That's the point of 'viewing'. I do not 'bitch' about time. I was talking about the schedule, which is bad for me. As well as GSTL schedule - so what? Since I did decide to watch GSTL, I could make it past my time restrictions at certain times. And since there are other reasons (for me!) to not watch PL as often as GSTL, I do not watch it that often. Also, I am not saying that OSL or PL ever did a shitty job at production. Introducing players, doing interviews, having theme music, all this is a sign of great production and I do respect that. But, for completely subjective reasons like "I do not like the color, I do not like the music, I do not like whatever the hell you are showing", I do not like it. Imagine you're at a museum (casually), and look at some great impressionists. You like it. Then you go for old greek paintings and just decide to not like the art because of the style. Your decision, your opinion. Not everyone's opinion, but so what? You can still go to a bar (which is, in this comparison, the comment section of this thread) and say "Oh well, didn't like that." Noone would say you're a worse or better person because of that, though some people would of course question your taste, just like you did - oh wait, you didn't. You're saying it tells a lot about me as a person. If you think so, oh well, I can deal with that. I just want to say that your post appears to be a bit like "I'm a fan and you just insulted the subject of my joy". If I did, I'm sorry. Didn't mean to by any means. Please read my first post again and show me exactly the point where I went full "EVERYTHING'S REVOLVING AROUND ME GO FOR IT MY OPINION IS RIGHT AND YOU ALL SUCK DICK" - if you can find it, I'll excuse seriously. To have an opinion, you need to have one thing. A mind. So for whatever reasons I do have my opinion, it is still my opinion. Not yours, not everyone else's, but who the hell cares? If you like PL, go enjoy it, watch it, have all the fun in the world. I'm not staying behind you and whispering in your ear "oh this is so crappy", though it seems like your have read my post as if that was the case. Not that I want to contradict your point, but I just wanted to point out a problem with your logic. You disliking something = Opinion You accusing someone of being faceless =/= Opinion An opinion is a personal belief or idea that describes your personal experience with an object, person, or event. When you begin projecting descriptions on others/objects then you are no longer talking about you subjective experience with them. There is a big difference between saying "I find him boring" versus "he is faceless." Saying you find someone boring says that you are at fault for being unable to connect to him. Calling someone faceless says that the object in question is at fault for not seeking you out. The truth is that neither you nor the object *have* to seek each other out. If you want to connect to said Korean, you should reach out to them by either learning Korean or reading lots of interviews. If the Korean thinks its important to learn english and wear costumes to play exotic monkey to white people, it is up to him to make the decision. When you start projecting what you want the koreans to do by calling them faceless and whining about how your German and germans don't need to learn Korean; it makes you sound a bit too midwest american for my book. Your allowed to have your opinion. You're allowed to find people who don't look like you to be boring. But when you start saying that they should change to fit your standards, that they don't have personalities, that they don't seem human just because they're different than you--then you start going down a pretty dark path. "Faceless Korean" is kind of a tactless label for Korean players that haven't distinguished themselves from the rest. It has nothing to do with personality. Flash hasnt tried to court foreign fans as much as DRG or MC,but Nobody would call Flash a faceless Korean because he's goddam Flash. Leenock and Life aren't seen as faceless Koreans even though in interviews they would give the exact same answers as Jjakji or Alive or Sniper. But they they've come to foreign tournaments and won and they are still high school students so their story is very relatable for a lot of people. Those kind of stories don't come out much for your average Korean. They get a winners interview which are so generic it's comical (hamburgers...) and an awkward trophy presentation. I do agree on the faceless korean topic. I used those words inappropiately. For me, a 'faceless korean' is a generic top level korean player that I do not enjoy to watch because of the lack of personality/lack of knowledge about/generic other reason. As much as Elfi and Sjow are 'faceless foreigners' to me, Genius and Patience are 'faceless koreans' to me. Sorry for the missuse, might have created a huge missunderstanding there. I hope that cleared it up. I still disagree with 100% of what Starstruck is saying, reading his posts kinda feels like a TL veteran with 22k posts is pissed because I dared to say PL sucks. Though I never said this. Edit: I'll enjoy the players I want to enjoy, and having to prove my point is really making me tired. Just accept my opinion and sort it into "fuck that guy he's stupid anyways" if you want to, but just leave me alone now . Edit #2: I will always enjoy a Dreamhack more than a GSL/OSL Ro32, too. #shameOnMe
Have no shame in who you like 
"faceless koreans" was funny when it was first used much like "Going full foreigner" was also funny when it was first used.
The problem is when derogatory slurs that started out friendly gets normalized too much. Which is why I initially said that I wasn't trying to contradict you I don't, in general, disagree with your overall conclusions. Just trying to curb this overall trend in TL to normalize the term "faceless koreans" especially when used in a thread discussing koreans.
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On December 04 2013 06:19 WolfintheSheep wrote:
These Jaedong/Kespa announcements get more amusing every time they're posted...
I thought it was already established that his "lease" had absolutely no clause about him being forced to return to JinAir after a year, and that it wasn't even a lease because he was 100% contracted with EG. At most JinAir had some special clause for negotiations, but nothing binding.
It's basically been pure PR work from Kespa since last year.
Its mostly in case JD hates flying around the world and getting mobbed by foreign fans while winning easy money from non-korean competitors in the qualifier stages of foreign tournaments.
To give him an out in case loyalty to country matters more to him than $$$
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Northern Ireland25446 Posts
On December 04 2013 03:06 Ace Frehley wrote:Show nested quote +On December 04 2013 02:26 Wombat_NI wrote:
'Jaedong never going to be good in SC2 outside of the Kespa environment'.
Perhaps he may have been even better still in a Kespa team, but I personally feel the chance to travel more, interact with foreign fans, the sweet sweet money and just a change of environment might actually have been a benefit to the guy. I would bet he would be retired by now if EG had never picked him, after stagnating between code A/low code S, achieving nothing, and not traveling to foreign tournaments at all. I think he became good because EG, more than money, gave him motivation and tournaments to play It must be depressing being locked in a team house to play a GSL match every few weeks (or months)
Quite possibly. It must be disheartening hitting the very peak of your profession and essentially having to start again as merely (relatively) average in a new game
Now there are some people who probably would have retired no matter what, given they don't appear to be fans of the game, but perhaps Bisu, Jangbi and their ilk may have stuck around a bit longer if they'd gotten to experience that side of things a bit more.
That said, Jaedong even historically has apparently been known for having an interest in learning English/travelling and stuff so perhaps what suits him about EG wouldn't necessarily suit some of the other Kespa giants.
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On December 04 2013 06:05 StarStruck wrote:Show nested quote +On December 04 2013 05:58 boxerfred wrote:On December 04 2013 05:22 MstrJinbo wrote:On December 04 2013 04:09 Thieving Magpie wrote:On December 04 2013 03:20 boxerfred wrote:On December 04 2013 01:27 StarStruck wrote:
boxerfred,
we just pointed out how useless your opinion was and invalid some of your points were. You cannot bitch and moan about something that takes place at a time less than ideal for you because over there the time is good for them. This point is saying, the world should revolve around you. Get over yourself.
As for the idea of faceless Koreans. Over there and to a lot of other people they aren't faceless. Stop projecting. You bitch about times yet you watch the GSTL, which has a similar schedule to PL and the OSL. Once again, get over yourself.
Furthermore, the OSL and PL Korean production showcases the actual players if you know Korean. Like I said before, they use everything from player theme music, to pre match interviews to playback interviews with the players. If you don't think this helps expose the players more than I don't know what to say to you. So you don't understand Korean. Too bad. From the odd time I did hear what they were saying there was some translation, but you don't like SNM. Oh well. Once again you are entitled to have a opinion, but there just isn't a lot of substance to such claims and it's more reflective of you as a person. Hey man, an opinion can't and will never be invalid, that's the point of an opinion. What you are talking about is an argumentatio or a stand point which I am not making or taking. I am not saying that the world should rotate solely around me, but since this is a comment section, I am making a comment. Yes, over there, the players are not faceless. Over there, I guess they don't even need a translator. But since I (I am very sorry for that and excuse seriously at this point) was born in Germany and never made it to Korea (nor did I do any attempt to learn the language, I am sorry!), those guys appear 'faceless' to me. Since they make money out of my viewing time, it's their task to make me stay, not my task to make myself more entertained. That's the point of 'viewing'. I do not 'bitch' about time. I was talking about the schedule, which is bad for me. As well as GSTL schedule - so what? Since I did decide to watch GSTL, I could make it past my time restrictions at certain times. And since there are other reasons (for me!) to not watch PL as often as GSTL, I do not watch it that often. Also, I am not saying that OSL or PL ever did a shitty job at production. Introducing players, doing interviews, having theme music, all this is a sign of great production and I do respect that. But, for completely subjective reasons like "I do not like the color, I do not like the music, I do not like whatever the hell you are showing", I do not like it. Imagine you're at a museum (casually), and look at some great impressionists. You like it. Then you go for old greek paintings and just decide to not like the art because of the style. Your decision, your opinion. Not everyone's opinion, but so what? You can still go to a bar (which is, in this comparison, the comment section of this thread) and say "Oh well, didn't like that." Noone would say you're a worse or better person because of that, though some people would of course question your taste, just like you did - oh wait, you didn't. You're saying it tells a lot about me as a person. If you think so, oh well, I can deal with that. I just want to say that your post appears to be a bit like "I'm a fan and you just insulted the subject of my joy". If I did, I'm sorry. Didn't mean to by any means. Please read my first post again and show me exactly the point where I went full "EVERYTHING'S REVOLVING AROUND ME GO FOR IT MY OPINION IS RIGHT AND YOU ALL SUCK DICK" - if you can find it, I'll excuse seriously. To have an opinion, you need to have one thing. A mind. So for whatever reasons I do have my opinion, it is still my opinion. Not yours, not everyone else's, but who the hell cares? If you like PL, go enjoy it, watch it, have all the fun in the world. I'm not staying behind you and whispering in your ear "oh this is so crappy", though it seems like your have read my post as if that was the case. Not that I want to contradict your point, but I just wanted to point out a problem with your logic. You disliking something = Opinion You accusing someone of being faceless =/= Opinion An opinion is a personal belief or idea that describes your personal experience with an object, person, or event. When you begin projecting descriptions on others/objects then you are no longer talking about you subjective experience with them. There is a big difference between saying "I find him boring" versus "he is faceless." Saying you find someone boring says that you are at fault for being unable to connect to him. Calling someone faceless says that the object in question is at fault for not seeking you out. The truth is that neither you nor the object *have* to seek each other out. If you want to connect to said Korean, you should reach out to them by either learning Korean or reading lots of interviews. If the Korean thinks its important to learn english and wear costumes to play exotic monkey to white people, it is up to him to make the decision. When you start projecting what you want the koreans to do by calling them faceless and whining about how your German and germans don't need to learn Korean; it makes you sound a bit too midwest american for my book. Your allowed to have your opinion. You're allowed to find people who don't look like you to be boring. But when you start saying that they should change to fit your standards, that they don't have personalities, that they don't seem human just because they're different than you--then you start going down a pretty dark path. "Faceless Korean" is kind of a tactless label for Korean players that haven't distinguished themselves from the rest. It has nothing to do with personality. Flash hasnt tried to court foreign fans as much as DRG or MC,but Nobody would call Flash a faceless Korean because he's goddam Flash. Leenock and Life aren't seen as faceless Koreans even though in interviews they would give the exact same answers as Jjakji or Alive or Sniper. But they they've come to foreign tournaments and won and they are still high school students so their story is very relatable for a lot of people. Those kind of stories don't come out much for your average Korean. They get a winners interview which are so generic it's comical (hamburgers...) and an awkward trophy presentation. I do agree on the faceless korean topic. I used those words inappropiately. For me, a 'faceless korean' is a generic top level korean player that I do not enjoy to watch because of the lack of personality/lack of knowledge about/generic other reason. As much as Elfi and Sjow are 'faceless foreigners' to me, Genius and Patience are 'faceless koreans' to me. Sorry for the missuse, might have created a huge missunderstanding there. I hope that cleared it up. I still disagree with 100% of what Starstruck is saying, reading his posts kinda feels like a TL veteran with 22k posts is pissed because I dared to say PL sucks. Though I never said this. Edit: I'll enjoy the players I want to enjoy, and having to prove my point is really making me tired. Just accept my opinion and sort it into "fuck that guy he's stupid anyways" if you want to, but just leave me alone now . Edit #2: I will always enjoy a Dreamhack more than a GSL/OSL Ro32, too. #shameOnMe That's not what I said at all lmao. I don't care that you think PL sucks. That is a fair opinion to have. You can shit on the casters and the production all you want. The two things I brought up was with regards to the timing and the idea you are now willing to accept. I have no problem with you enjoying players you want to enjoy and like, but please be a little more careful when we start labeling people as faceless. Show nested quote +On December 04 2013 06:03 perfidiusrex wrote:On December 04 2013 05:58 boxerfred wrote:On December 04 2013 05:22 MstrJinbo wrote:On December 04 2013 04:09 Thieving Magpie wrote:On December 04 2013 03:20 boxerfred wrote:On December 04 2013 01:27 StarStruck wrote:
boxerfred,
we just pointed out how useless your opinion was and invalid some of your points were. You cannot bitch and moan about something that takes place at a time less than ideal for you because over there the time is good for them. This point is saying, the world should revolve around you. Get over yourself.
As for the idea of faceless Koreans. Over there and to a lot of other people they aren't faceless. Stop projecting. You bitch about times yet you watch the GSTL, which has a similar schedule to PL and the OSL. Once again, get over yourself.
Furthermore, the OSL and PL Korean production showcases the actual players if you know Korean. Like I said before, they use everything from player theme music, to pre match interviews to playback interviews with the players. If you don't think this helps expose the players more than I don't know what to say to you. So you don't understand Korean. Too bad. From the odd time I did hear what they were saying there was some translation, but you don't like SNM. Oh well. Once again you are entitled to have a opinion, but there just isn't a lot of substance to such claims and it's more reflective of you as a person. Hey man, an opinion can't and will never be invalid, that's the point of an opinion. What you are talking about is an argumentatio or a stand point which I am not making or taking. I am not saying that the world should rotate solely around me, but since this is a comment section, I am making a comment. Yes, over there, the players are not faceless. Over there, I guess they don't even need a translator. But since I (I am very sorry for that and excuse seriously at this point) was born in Germany and never made it to Korea (nor did I do any attempt to learn the language, I am sorry!), those guys appear 'faceless' to me. Since they make money out of my viewing time, it's their task to make me stay, not my task to make myself more entertained. That's the point of 'viewing'. I do not 'bitch' about time. I was talking about the schedule, which is bad for me. As well as GSTL schedule - so what? Since I did decide to watch GSTL, I could make it past my time restrictions at certain times. And since there are other reasons (for me!) to not watch PL as often as GSTL, I do not watch it that often. Also, I am not saying that OSL or PL ever did a shitty job at production. Introducing players, doing interviews, having theme music, all this is a sign of great production and I do respect that. But, for completely subjective reasons like "I do not like the color, I do not like the music, I do not like whatever the hell you are showing", I do not like it. Imagine you're at a museum (casually), and look at some great impressionists. You like it. Then you go for old greek paintings and just decide to not like the art because of the style. Your decision, your opinion. Not everyone's opinion, but so what? You can still go to a bar (which is, in this comparison, the comment section of this thread) and say "Oh well, didn't like that." Noone would say you're a worse or better person because of that, though some people would of course question your taste, just like you did - oh wait, you didn't. You're saying it tells a lot about me as a person. If you think so, oh well, I can deal with that. I just want to say that your post appears to be a bit like "I'm a fan and you just insulted the subject of my joy". If I did, I'm sorry. Didn't mean to by any means. Please read my first post again and show me exactly the point where I went full "EVERYTHING'S REVOLVING AROUND ME GO FOR IT MY OPINION IS RIGHT AND YOU ALL SUCK DICK" - if you can find it, I'll excuse seriously. To have an opinion, you need to have one thing. A mind. So for whatever reasons I do have my opinion, it is still my opinion. Not yours, not everyone else's, but who the hell cares? If you like PL, go enjoy it, watch it, have all the fun in the world. I'm not staying behind you and whispering in your ear "oh this is so crappy", though it seems like your have read my post as if that was the case. Not that I want to contradict your point, but I just wanted to point out a problem with your logic. You disliking something = Opinion You accusing someone of being faceless =/= Opinion An opinion is a personal belief or idea that describes your personal experience with an object, person, or event. When you begin projecting descriptions on others/objects then you are no longer talking about you subjective experience with them. There is a big difference between saying "I find him boring" versus "he is faceless." Saying you find someone boring says that you are at fault for being unable to connect to him. Calling someone faceless says that the object in question is at fault for not seeking you out. The truth is that neither you nor the object *have* to seek each other out. If you want to connect to said Korean, you should reach out to them by either learning Korean or reading lots of interviews. If the Korean thinks its important to learn english and wear costumes to play exotic monkey to white people, it is up to him to make the decision. When you start projecting what you want the koreans to do by calling them faceless and whining about how your German and germans don't need to learn Korean; it makes you sound a bit too midwest american for my book. Your allowed to have your opinion. You're allowed to find people who don't look like you to be boring. But when you start saying that they should change to fit your standards, that they don't have personalities, that they don't seem human just because they're different than you--then you start going down a pretty dark path. "Faceless Korean" is kind of a tactless label for Korean players that haven't distinguished themselves from the rest. It has nothing to do with personality. Flash hasnt tried to court foreign fans as much as DRG or MC,but Nobody would call Flash a faceless Korean because he's goddam Flash. Leenock and Life aren't seen as faceless Koreans even though in interviews they would give the exact same answers as Jjakji or Alive or Sniper. But they they've come to foreign tournaments and won and they are still high school students so their story is very relatable for a lot of people. Those kind of stories don't come out much for your average Korean. They get a winners interview which are so generic it's comical (hamburgers...) and an awkward trophy presentation. I do agree on the faceless korean topic. I used those words inappropiately. For me, a 'faceless korean' is a generic top level korean player that I do not enjoy to watch because of the lack of personality/lack of knowledge about/generic other reason. As much as Elfi and Sjow are 'faceless foreigners' to me, Genius and Patience are 'faceless koreans' to me. Sorry for the missuse, might have created a huge missunderstanding there. I hope that cleared it up. I still disagree with 100% of what Starstruck is saying, reading his posts kinda feels like a TL veteran with 22k posts is pissed because I dared to say PL sucks. Though I never said this. Edit: I'll enjoy the players I want to enjoy, and having to prove my point is really making me tired. Just accept my opinion and sort it into "fuck that guy he's stupid anyways" if you want to, but just leave me alone now . he sort of likes koreans.he also is against region locking.the reason he went of on you is cause you called the koreans faceless.pl is just his excuse to vent.he also sort of hates foreigners to a certain degree... Um, how do I hate foreigners? I wouldn't generalize in this case. Yeah, I have a lot of posts and it would be tedious to go through them all, but contrary to your belief I'm actually a fan of a lot of foreigners and I give credit when it's due to everyone. I'm very unbiased in all sections of these forums and that wasn't my only point of attack. If you look at the system I'd like to pitch to Blizzard you'd see that it would actually be very beneficial to all players in terms of developing them, generating exposure and creating endless story lines.
if by endless story line you mean the eu and na scene going down in flames for good(not that they are too developed right now) yeah that would make a good storyline
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On December 04 2013 06:22 Thieving Magpie wrote:Show nested quote +On December 04 2013 06:19 WolfintheSheep wrote:
These Jaedong/Kespa announcements get more amusing every time they're posted...
I thought it was already established that his "lease" had absolutely no clause about him being forced to return to JinAir after a year, and that it wasn't even a lease because he was 100% contracted with EG. At most JinAir had some special clause for negotiations, but nothing binding.
It's basically been pure PR work from Kespa since last year. Its mostly in case JD hates flying around the world and getting mobbed by foreign fans while winning easy money from non-korean competitors in the qualifier stages of foreign tournaments. To give him an out in case loyalty to country matters more to him than $$$
I can just imagine how those negotiations went...
"Hey Jaedong, want to come back to Kespa?"
"What's your offer?"
"...offer?"
"..."
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On December 04 2013 06:38 Radicalness wrote:
Stay with EG, JD!
Fingers crossed!
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Acer jaedong incoming. Just sayin
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Maybe it was just posturing, but if Jin Air really did have 2014 salary room for Jaedong they should sign Soulkey and/or sOs, since Woongjin isn't playing in the upcoming proleague.
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On December 04 2013 07:28 Cheren wrote:
Maybe it was just posturing, but if Jin Air really did have 2014 salary room for Jaedong they should sign Soulkey and/or sOs, since Woongjin isn't playing in the upcoming proleague.
idra was saying in the last chanman show that all sponsorship for kespa teams dropped a lot for sc2.i wanted to make a teamliquid post asking about this but my account is too new.i think the kespa sponsorship for sc2 in korea might be lower than a lot of people think
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On December 04 2013 07:24 DBS wrote:
Acer jaedong incoming. Just sayin
Jaedong Innovation MMA. oh my
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EG suits well with JD. I hope he stays
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On December 04 2013 05:58 boxerfred wrote:Show nested quote +On December 04 2013 05:22 MstrJinbo wrote:On December 04 2013 04:09 Thieving Magpie wrote:On December 04 2013 03:20 boxerfred wrote:On December 04 2013 01:27 StarStruck wrote:
boxerfred,
we just pointed out how useless your opinion was and invalid some of your points were. You cannot bitch and moan about something that takes place at a time less than ideal for you because over there the time is good for them. This point is saying, the world should revolve around you. Get over yourself.
As for the idea of faceless Koreans. Over there and to a lot of other people they aren't faceless. Stop projecting. You bitch about times yet you watch the GSTL, which has a similar schedule to PL and the OSL. Once again, get over yourself.
Furthermore, the OSL and PL Korean production showcases the actual players if you know Korean. Like I said before, they use everything from player theme music, to pre match interviews to playback interviews with the players. If you don't think this helps expose the players more than I don't know what to say to you. So you don't understand Korean. Too bad. From the odd time I did hear what they were saying there was some translation, but you don't like SNM. Oh well. Once again you are entitled to have a opinion, but there just isn't a lot of substance to such claims and it's more reflective of you as a person. Hey man, an opinion can't and will never be invalid, that's the point of an opinion. What you are talking about is an argumentatio or a stand point which I am not making or taking. I am not saying that the world should rotate solely around me, but since this is a comment section, I am making a comment. Yes, over there, the players are not faceless. Over there, I guess they don't even need a translator. But since I (I am very sorry for that and excuse seriously at this point) was born in Germany and never made it to Korea (nor did I do any attempt to learn the language, I am sorry!), those guys appear 'faceless' to me. Since they make money out of my viewing time, it's their task to make me stay, not my task to make myself more entertained. That's the point of 'viewing'. I do not 'bitch' about time. I was talking about the schedule, which is bad for me. As well as GSTL schedule - so what? Since I did decide to watch GSTL, I could make it past my time restrictions at certain times. And since there are other reasons (for me!) to not watch PL as often as GSTL, I do not watch it that often. Also, I am not saying that OSL or PL ever did a shitty job at production. Introducing players, doing interviews, having theme music, all this is a sign of great production and I do respect that. But, for completely subjective reasons like "I do not like the color, I do not like the music, I do not like whatever the hell you are showing", I do not like it. Imagine you're at a museum (casually), and look at some great impressionists. You like it. Then you go for old greek paintings and just decide to not like the art because of the style. Your decision, your opinion. Not everyone's opinion, but so what? You can still go to a bar (which is, in this comparison, the comment section of this thread) and say "Oh well, didn't like that." Noone would say you're a worse or better person because of that, though some people would of course question your taste, just like you did - oh wait, you didn't. You're saying it tells a lot about me as a person. If you think so, oh well, I can deal with that. I just want to say that your post appears to be a bit like "I'm a fan and you just insulted the subject of my joy". If I did, I'm sorry. Didn't mean to by any means. Please read my first post again and show me exactly the point where I went full "EVERYTHING'S REVOLVING AROUND ME GO FOR IT MY OPINION IS RIGHT AND YOU ALL SUCK DICK" - if you can find it, I'll excuse seriously. To have an opinion, you need to have one thing. A mind. So for whatever reasons I do have my opinion, it is still my opinion. Not yours, not everyone else's, but who the hell cares? If you like PL, go enjoy it, watch it, have all the fun in the world. I'm not staying behind you and whispering in your ear "oh this is so crappy", though it seems like your have read my post as if that was the case. Not that I want to contradict your point, but I just wanted to point out a problem with your logic. You disliking something = Opinion You accusing someone of being faceless =/= Opinion An opinion is a personal belief or idea that describes your personal experience with an object, person, or event. When you begin projecting descriptions on others/objects then you are no longer talking about you subjective experience with them. There is a big difference between saying "I find him boring" versus "he is faceless." Saying you find someone boring says that you are at fault for being unable to connect to him. Calling someone faceless says that the object in question is at fault for not seeking you out. The truth is that neither you nor the object *have* to seek each other out. If you want to connect to said Korean, you should reach out to them by either learning Korean or reading lots of interviews. If the Korean thinks its important to learn english and wear costumes to play exotic monkey to white people, it is up to him to make the decision. When you start projecting what you want the koreans to do by calling them faceless and whining about how your German and germans don't need to learn Korean; it makes you sound a bit too midwest american for my book. Your allowed to have your opinion. You're allowed to find people who don't look like you to be boring. But when you start saying that they should change to fit your standards, that they don't have personalities, that they don't seem human just because they're different than you--then you start going down a pretty dark path. "Faceless Korean" is kind of a tactless label for Korean players that haven't distinguished themselves from the rest. It has nothing to do with personality. Flash hasnt tried to court foreign fans as much as DRG or MC,but Nobody would call Flash a faceless Korean because he's goddam Flash. Leenock and Life aren't seen as faceless Koreans even though in interviews they would give the exact same answers as Jjakji or Alive or Sniper. But they they've come to foreign tournaments and won and they are still high school students so their story is very relatable for a lot of people. Those kind of stories don't come out much for your average Korean. They get a winners interview which are so generic it's comical (hamburgers...) and an awkward trophy presentation. I do agree on the faceless korean topic. I used those words inappropiately. For me, a 'faceless korean' is a generic top level korean player that I do not enjoy to watch because of the lack of personality/lack of knowledge about/generic other reason. As much as Elfi and Sjow are 'faceless foreigners' to me, Genius and Patience are 'faceless koreans' to me. Sorry for the missuse, might have created a huge missunderstanding there. I hope that cleared it up. I still disagree with 100% of what Starstruck is saying, reading his posts kinda feels like a TL veteran with 22k posts is pissed because I dared to say PL sucks. Though I never said this. Edit: I'll enjoy the players I want to enjoy, and having to prove my point is really making me tired. Just accept my opinion and sort it into "fuck that guy he's stupid anyways" if you want to, but just leave me alone now . Edit #2: I will always enjoy a Dreamhack more than a GSL/OSL Ro32, too. #shameOnMe
I think as a community we'd be better off not labeling people as faceless anything. As a spectator you don't owe genius or patience anything. But Just keep in mind that calling someone "faceless" has a very specific and usually negative meaning to it and people will take offense to it. Just cause you heard it in a sc2 talk show somewhere doesn't mean you have to repeat it.
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