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On December 04 2013 04:34 Zenbrez wrote:Show nested quote +On December 04 2013 04:10 perfidiusrex wrote:On December 04 2013 04:04 Squat wrote:On December 04 2013 04:02 perfidiusrex wrote:On December 04 2013 03:56 Lorch wrote:Did EG ever actually officially announce that they'll pull out of PL? I mean yea they let their coaches go, yea they closed the house, yea the partnership with TL is kinda over, BUT there is still hope. PL without Jaedong would just feel wrong. I really hoped to see Jaedong go back to kespa  I'd much rather see my Dong stay in Korea, grind hard, win some korean tournaments instead of traveling the world as a kong T.T nazgul announced they will not be in pl next season when he was interviewed by incontrol at dreamhack. "win some korean tournaments" what korean tournaments?the only korean tournamnets left at gsl where jaedong was obliterated.his chances of doing something in the gsl are 0.if eg or other foreign team do not pick him up its either the lol scene or retirement for the dong. Has anyone told you that you're kind of silly? Because if not I'd be happy to. you have any facts to back it up? 2nd in a season finals and blizzcon isn't enough for you to acknowledge how good he is? Tournaments that was almost composed entirely of WCS premier/season final champions? Good lord. Some people.
outside of korea he is probably the best korean playing.in korea he did not achieve much in sc2.
@deadantos
all of which were events outside of korea.
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On December 04 2013 03:49 DRTnOOber wrote:
Liquid JD. Nuff said.
Please no
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On December 04 2013 03:44 Supert0fu wrote:No jaedong in proleague
yeah.. that was the thought that popped into my mind... yikes
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On December 04 2013 04:40 perfidiusrex wrote:Show nested quote +On December 04 2013 04:34 Zenbrez wrote:On December 04 2013 04:10 perfidiusrex wrote:On December 04 2013 04:04 Squat wrote:On December 04 2013 04:02 perfidiusrex wrote:On December 04 2013 03:56 Lorch wrote:Did EG ever actually officially announce that they'll pull out of PL? I mean yea they let their coaches go, yea they closed the house, yea the partnership with TL is kinda over, BUT there is still hope. PL without Jaedong would just feel wrong. I really hoped to see Jaedong go back to kespa I'd much rather see my Dong stay in Korea, grind hard, win some korean tournaments instead of traveling the world as a kong T.T nazgul announced they will not be in pl next season when he was interviewed by incontrol at dreamhack. "win some korean tournaments" what korean tournaments?the only korean tournamnets left at gsl where jaedong was obliterated.his chances of doing something in the gsl are 0.if eg or other foreign team do not pick him up its either the lol scene or retirement for the dong. Has anyone told you that you're kind of silly? Because if not I'd be happy to. you have any facts to back it up? 2nd in a season finals and blizzcon isn't enough for you to acknowledge how good he is? Tournaments that was almost composed entirely of WCS premier/season final champions? Good lord. Some people. outside of korea he is probably the best korean playing.in korea he did not achieve much in sc2. @deadantos all of which were events outside of korea.
I don't want to ruffle feathers here, but the top 8-top 16 of those "foreign events" were composed very heavily of... "non-foreigners."
Not to say that JD will do well in GSL because he did well in Blizzcon (heck, look at Genius) but its unfair to say that JD hasn't been doing as well as a lot of Korea only Koreans.
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On December 04 2013 03:30 StarStruck wrote:
You should re-read your post again then because that's exactly how you came off to me. In verbatim, I'll repeat this point once again because I'm not sure you read all the other posts. Your first post is really no different than someone coming into the LR section and saying the following, "Not another faceless Korean. Won't watch" and I'm sure you know what we do to those kind of people. That's how you came off to me. It's all about perspective and terms of facelessness. You might want to use a different word, or keep those kind of comments to yourself.
As for myself, considering how much content they (as in KeSPA) churn out like I stated before, I myself don't even have enough time to watch all of it. I don't watch every match of every player, but would I call them faceless? Heck no.
Hey, you Viper who tends not to read every post and says a lot of funky stuff. Stay out of it.
I just re-read my post and, well, if you want to understand it that way, my second post should give the explanation how it was meant. My first post does not appear the way you see it to me, but hey, not my problem. Then again, after re-reading my second post also, I still don't get why you came to the conclusion which you came to right now. After re-reading my third, longest point - oh well, you're just wrong, but whatever mate, keep going. Not gonna respond anymore though.
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On December 04 2013 04:44 c0ldfusion wrote:yeah.. that was the thought that popped into my mind... yikes
flash is still in the proleague.he is a big draw.altough i wonder how godlike flash would become if he had the same opportunities as jaedong aka being on a foreign team and sent to all foreign tournaments.if hyun,polt and b teamers like duckdeok can make it,flash could actually dominate
@thieving magpie
correct.and most of the 16 koreans in those tournaments are also in jaedongs positions:they were not doing that well in korea,foreign teams picked them up and they exploded.and both bomber and sos beat jaedong in finals.the only wcs korea korean jaedong beat convincingly was maru.beating dear at blizzcon was probably the upset of the tournament but i do not see it happening again
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On December 04 2013 04:52 boxerfred wrote:Show nested quote +On December 04 2013 03:30 StarStruck wrote:
You should re-read your post again then because that's exactly how you came off to me. In verbatim, I'll repeat this point once again because I'm not sure you read all the other posts. Your first post is really no different than someone coming into the LR section and saying the following, "Not another faceless Korean. Won't watch" and I'm sure you know what we do to those kind of people. That's how you came off to me. It's all about perspective and terms of facelessness. You might want to use a different word, or keep those kind of comments to yourself.
As for myself, considering how much content they (as in KeSPA) churn out like I stated before, I myself don't even have enough time to watch all of it. I don't watch every match of every player, but would I call them faceless? Heck no.
Hey, you Viper who tends not to read every post and says a lot of funky stuff. Stay out of it. I just re-read my post and, well, if you want to understand it that way, my second post should give the explanation how it was meant. My first post does not appear the way you see it to me, but hey, not my problem. Then again, after re-reading my second post also, I still don't get why you came to the conclusion which you came to right now. After re-reading my third, longest point - oh well, you're just wrong, but whatever mate, keep going. Not gonna respond anymore though.
Then I recommend you read Magpie's response because he laid out the ground work for you.
On December 04 2013 04:50 Thieving Magpie wrote:
Not to say that JD will do well in GSL because he did well in Blizzcon (heck, look at Genius) but its unfair to say that JD hasn't been doing as well as a lot of Korea only Koreans.
It's very hard to make any comparisons to those players considering they're held up in Korea. =/
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On December 04 2013 05:00 StarStruck wrote:Show nested quote +On December 04 2013 04:52 boxerfred wrote:On December 04 2013 03:30 StarStruck wrote:
You should re-read your post again then because that's exactly how you came off to me. In verbatim, I'll repeat this point once again because I'm not sure you read all the other posts. Your first post is really no different than someone coming into the LR section and saying the following, "Not another faceless Korean. Won't watch" and I'm sure you know what we do to those kind of people. That's how you came off to me. It's all about perspective and terms of facelessness. You might want to use a different word, or keep those kind of comments to yourself.
As for myself, considering how much content they (as in KeSPA) churn out like I stated before, I myself don't even have enough time to watch all of it. I don't watch every match of every player, but would I call them faceless? Heck no.
Hey, you Viper who tends not to read every post and says a lot of funky stuff. Stay out of it. I just re-read my post and, well, if you want to understand it that way, my second post should give the explanation how it was meant. My first post does not appear the way you see it to me, but hey, not my problem. Then again, after re-reading my second post also, I still don't get why you came to the conclusion which you came to right now. After re-reading my third, longest point - oh well, you're just wrong, but whatever mate, keep going. Not gonna respond anymore though. Then I recommend you read Magpie's response because he laid out the ground work for you. Show nested quote +On December 04 2013 04:50 Thieving Magpie wrote:
Not to say that JD will do well in GSL because he did well in Blizzcon (heck, look at Genius) but its unfair to say that JD hasn't been doing as well as a lot of Korea only Koreans. It's very hard to make any comparisons to those players considering they're held up in Korea. =/
It's not hard since he's faced comparable Korean's in numerous foreign events. If you can't judge him based on the last year then a few Korean tournaments wouldn't convince you of anything different than what you already are believing.
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On December 04 2013 05:06 nam nam wrote:Show nested quote +On December 04 2013 05:00 StarStruck wrote:On December 04 2013 04:52 boxerfred wrote:On December 04 2013 03:30 StarStruck wrote:
You should re-read your post again then because that's exactly how you came off to me. In verbatim, I'll repeat this point once again because I'm not sure you read all the other posts. Your first post is really no different than someone coming into the LR section and saying the following, "Not another faceless Korean. Won't watch" and I'm sure you know what we do to those kind of people. That's how you came off to me. It's all about perspective and terms of facelessness. You might want to use a different word, or keep those kind of comments to yourself.
As for myself, considering how much content they (as in KeSPA) churn out like I stated before, I myself don't even have enough time to watch all of it. I don't watch every match of every player, but would I call them faceless? Heck no.
Hey, you Viper who tends not to read every post and says a lot of funky stuff. Stay out of it. I just re-read my post and, well, if you want to understand it that way, my second post should give the explanation how it was meant. My first post does not appear the way you see it to me, but hey, not my problem. Then again, after re-reading my second post also, I still don't get why you came to the conclusion which you came to right now. After re-reading my third, longest point - oh well, you're just wrong, but whatever mate, keep going. Not gonna respond anymore though. Then I recommend you read Magpie's response because he laid out the ground work for you. On December 04 2013 04:50 Thieving Magpie wrote:
Not to say that JD will do well in GSL because he did well in Blizzcon (heck, look at Genius) but its unfair to say that JD hasn't been doing as well as a lot of Korea only Koreans. It's very hard to make any comparisons to those players considering they're held up in Korea. =/ It's not hard since he's faced comparable Korean's in numerous foreign events. If you can't judge him based on the last year then a few Korean tournaments wouldn't convince you of anything different than what you already are believing.
theres at least 100 koreans in korea that given the possibilities jd,duckdeok,hyun,polt,mvp,mc have would have performed the same or even better.just look what patience did last dreamhack and what hero did at iem.imagine 100 patience every tournament.
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On December 04 2013 05:06 nam nam wrote:Show nested quote +On December 04 2013 05:00 StarStruck wrote:On December 04 2013 04:52 boxerfred wrote:On December 04 2013 03:30 StarStruck wrote:
You should re-read your post again then because that's exactly how you came off to me. In verbatim, I'll repeat this point once again because I'm not sure you read all the other posts. Your first post is really no different than someone coming into the LR section and saying the following, "Not another faceless Korean. Won't watch" and I'm sure you know what we do to those kind of people. That's how you came off to me. It's all about perspective and terms of facelessness. You might want to use a different word, or keep those kind of comments to yourself.
As for myself, considering how much content they (as in KeSPA) churn out like I stated before, I myself don't even have enough time to watch all of it. I don't watch every match of every player, but would I call them faceless? Heck no.
Hey, you Viper who tends not to read every post and says a lot of funky stuff. Stay out of it. I just re-read my post and, well, if you want to understand it that way, my second post should give the explanation how it was meant. My first post does not appear the way you see it to me, but hey, not my problem. Then again, after re-reading my second post also, I still don't get why you came to the conclusion which you came to right now. After re-reading my third, longest point - oh well, you're just wrong, but whatever mate, keep going. Not gonna respond anymore though. Then I recommend you read Magpie's response because he laid out the ground work for you. On December 04 2013 04:50 Thieving Magpie wrote:
Not to say that JD will do well in GSL because he did well in Blizzcon (heck, look at Genius) but its unfair to say that JD hasn't been doing as well as a lot of Korea only Koreans. It's very hard to make any comparisons to those players considering they're held up in Korea. =/ It's not hard since he's faced comparable Korean's in numerous foreign events. If you can't judge him based on the last year then a few Korean tournaments wouldn't convince you of anything different than what you already are believing.
Sure it is because it isn't reflective of the whole scene as a whole. Look, if more Koreans had more opportunities outside of Korea then I'm sure we'd see a few more break out performances. Look at the players who broke away from it and look at the guys who found some success elsewhere. The same rule can apply to a lot of guys. There are a lot of landmines in Korea. Jaedong knows all about this. He's already participated in those events when he was fine tuning his craft. The fact there are more landmines makes it a lot harder. We've seen many players falter under the group stages and I'm getting a little tired of the system to be honest (yes, I know it's the best format for small group stages as motbob put it in his blog a long time ago), but I would like to see a more encompassing system where it isn't two to three series and your out and call it a season. I much rather see an entire season of players battling it out against one another over and over again. Not just one set. Let's find out who truly is the best and have them all get to bunt heads multiple times. No more what if's. Let's find out who truly is the best. Wow, I haven't said that word in so long and lookie here. I just said it in two sentences in a row.
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On December 04 2013 04:09 Thieving Magpie wrote:Show nested quote +On December 04 2013 03:20 boxerfred wrote:On December 04 2013 01:27 StarStruck wrote:
boxerfred,
we just pointed out how useless your opinion was and invalid some of your points were. You cannot bitch and moan about something that takes place at a time less than ideal for you because over there the time is good for them. This point is saying, the world should revolve around you. Get over yourself.
As for the idea of faceless Koreans. Over there and to a lot of other people they aren't faceless. Stop projecting. You bitch about times yet you watch the GSTL, which has a similar schedule to PL and the OSL. Once again, get over yourself.
Furthermore, the OSL and PL Korean production showcases the actual players if you know Korean. Like I said before, they use everything from player theme music, to pre match interviews to playback interviews with the players. If you don't think this helps expose the players more than I don't know what to say to you. So you don't understand Korean. Too bad. From the odd time I did hear what they were saying there was some translation, but you don't like SNM. Oh well. Once again you are entitled to have a opinion, but there just isn't a lot of substance to such claims and it's more reflective of you as a person. Hey man, an opinion can't and will never be invalid, that's the point of an opinion. What you are talking about is an argumentatio or a stand point which I am not making or taking. I am not saying that the world should rotate solely around me, but since this is a comment section, I am making a comment. Yes, over there, the players are not faceless. Over there, I guess they don't even need a translator. But since I (I am very sorry for that and excuse seriously at this point) was born in Germany and never made it to Korea (nor did I do any attempt to learn the language, I am sorry!), those guys appear 'faceless' to me. Since they make money out of my viewing time, it's their task to make me stay, not my task to make myself more entertained. That's the point of 'viewing'. I do not 'bitch' about time. I was talking about the schedule, which is bad for me. As well as GSTL schedule - so what? Since I did decide to watch GSTL, I could make it past my time restrictions at certain times. And since there are other reasons (for me!) to not watch PL as often as GSTL, I do not watch it that often. Also, I am not saying that OSL or PL ever did a shitty job at production. Introducing players, doing interviews, having theme music, all this is a sign of great production and I do respect that. But, for completely subjective reasons like "I do not like the color, I do not like the music, I do not like whatever the hell you are showing", I do not like it. Imagine you're at a museum (casually), and look at some great impressionists. You like it. Then you go for old greek paintings and just decide to not like the art because of the style. Your decision, your opinion. Not everyone's opinion, but so what? You can still go to a bar (which is, in this comparison, the comment section of this thread) and say "Oh well, didn't like that." Noone would say you're a worse or better person because of that, though some people would of course question your taste, just like you did - oh wait, you didn't. You're saying it tells a lot about me as a person. If you think so, oh well, I can deal with that. I just want to say that your post appears to be a bit like "I'm a fan and you just insulted the subject of my joy". If I did, I'm sorry. Didn't mean to by any means. Please read my first post again and show me exactly the point where I went full "EVERYTHING'S REVOLVING AROUND ME GO FOR IT MY OPINION IS RIGHT AND YOU ALL SUCK DICK" - if you can find it, I'll excuse seriously. To have an opinion, you need to have one thing. A mind. So for whatever reasons I do have my opinion, it is still my opinion. Not yours, not everyone else's, but who the hell cares? If you like PL, go enjoy it, watch it, have all the fun in the world. I'm not staying behind you and whispering in your ear "oh this is so crappy", though it seems like your have read my post as if that was the case. Not that I want to contradict your point, but I just wanted to point out a problem with your logic. You disliking something = Opinion You accusing someone of being faceless =/= Opinion An opinion is a personal belief or idea that describes your personal experience with an object, person, or event. When you begin projecting descriptions on others/objects then you are no longer talking about you subjective experience with them. There is a big difference between saying "I find him boring" versus "he is faceless." Saying you find someone boring says that you are at fault for being unable to connect to him. Calling someone faceless says that the object in question is at fault for not seeking you out. The truth is that neither you nor the object *have* to seek each other out. If you want to connect to said Korean, you should reach out to them by either learning Korean or reading lots of interviews. If the Korean thinks its important to learn english and wear costumes to play exotic monkey to white people, it is up to him to make the decision. When you start projecting what you want the koreans to do by calling them faceless and whining about how your German and germans don't need to learn Korean; it makes you sound a bit too midwest american for my book. Your allowed to have your opinion. You're allowed to find people who don't look like you to be boring. But when you start saying that they should change to fit your standards, that they don't have personalities, that they don't seem human just because they're different than you--then you start going down a pretty dark path.
"Faceless Korean" is kind of a tactless label for Korean players that haven't distinguished themselves from the rest. It has nothing to do with personality. Flash hasnt tried to court foreign fans as much as DRG or MC,but Nobody would call Flash a faceless Korean because he's goddam Flash. Leenock and Life aren't seen as faceless Koreans even though in interviews they would give the exact same answers as Jjakji or Alive or Sniper. But they they've come to foreign tournaments and won and they are still high school students so their story is very relatable for a lot of people. Those kind of stories don't come out much for your average Korean. They get a winners interview which are so generic it's comical (hamburgers...) and an awkward trophy presentation.
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i didn't think he would be returning
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Lets hope he quits all together rand joins SoPSA
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On December 04 2013 05:26 arb wrote:
Lets hope he quits all together rand joins SoPSA
yes, lets turn this in to an sc2 vs BW thread.
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Hope he stays with EG, it is good seeing him go to all the different tournaments 
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East Gorteau22261 Posts
On December 04 2013 05:26 arb wrote:
Lets hope he quits all together rand joins SoPSA
Yes because that's clearly very likely
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On December 04 2013 05:34 Zealously wrote:Show nested quote +On December 04 2013 05:26 arb wrote:
Lets hope he quits all together rand joins SoPSA Yes because that's clearly very likely
Duh, as soon as he finds a BW team that will pay him what EG does and get him the same benefits, he's gone.
Wait, what?
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On December 04 2013 05:22 MstrJinbo wrote:Show nested quote +On December 04 2013 04:09 Thieving Magpie wrote:On December 04 2013 03:20 boxerfred wrote:On December 04 2013 01:27 StarStruck wrote:
boxerfred,
we just pointed out how useless your opinion was and invalid some of your points were. You cannot bitch and moan about something that takes place at a time less than ideal for you because over there the time is good for them. This point is saying, the world should revolve around you. Get over yourself.
As for the idea of faceless Koreans. Over there and to a lot of other people they aren't faceless. Stop projecting. You bitch about times yet you watch the GSTL, which has a similar schedule to PL and the OSL. Once again, get over yourself.
Furthermore, the OSL and PL Korean production showcases the actual players if you know Korean. Like I said before, they use everything from player theme music, to pre match interviews to playback interviews with the players. If you don't think this helps expose the players more than I don't know what to say to you. So you don't understand Korean. Too bad. From the odd time I did hear what they were saying there was some translation, but you don't like SNM. Oh well. Once again you are entitled to have a opinion, but there just isn't a lot of substance to such claims and it's more reflective of you as a person. Hey man, an opinion can't and will never be invalid, that's the point of an opinion. What you are talking about is an argumentatio or a stand point which I am not making or taking. I am not saying that the world should rotate solely around me, but since this is a comment section, I am making a comment. Yes, over there, the players are not faceless. Over there, I guess they don't even need a translator. But since I (I am very sorry for that and excuse seriously at this point) was born in Germany and never made it to Korea (nor did I do any attempt to learn the language, I am sorry!), those guys appear 'faceless' to me. Since they make money out of my viewing time, it's their task to make me stay, not my task to make myself more entertained. That's the point of 'viewing'. I do not 'bitch' about time. I was talking about the schedule, which is bad for me. As well as GSTL schedule - so what? Since I did decide to watch GSTL, I could make it past my time restrictions at certain times. And since there are other reasons (for me!) to not watch PL as often as GSTL, I do not watch it that often. Also, I am not saying that OSL or PL ever did a shitty job at production. Introducing players, doing interviews, having theme music, all this is a sign of great production and I do respect that. But, for completely subjective reasons like "I do not like the color, I do not like the music, I do not like whatever the hell you are showing", I do not like it. Imagine you're at a museum (casually), and look at some great impressionists. You like it. Then you go for old greek paintings and just decide to not like the art because of the style. Your decision, your opinion. Not everyone's opinion, but so what? You can still go to a bar (which is, in this comparison, the comment section of this thread) and say "Oh well, didn't like that." Noone would say you're a worse or better person because of that, though some people would of course question your taste, just like you did - oh wait, you didn't. You're saying it tells a lot about me as a person. If you think so, oh well, I can deal with that. I just want to say that your post appears to be a bit like "I'm a fan and you just insulted the subject of my joy". If I did, I'm sorry. Didn't mean to by any means. Please read my first post again and show me exactly the point where I went full "EVERYTHING'S REVOLVING AROUND ME GO FOR IT MY OPINION IS RIGHT AND YOU ALL SUCK DICK" - if you can find it, I'll excuse seriously. To have an opinion, you need to have one thing. A mind. So for whatever reasons I do have my opinion, it is still my opinion. Not yours, not everyone else's, but who the hell cares? If you like PL, go enjoy it, watch it, have all the fun in the world. I'm not staying behind you and whispering in your ear "oh this is so crappy", though it seems like your have read my post as if that was the case. Not that I want to contradict your point, but I just wanted to point out a problem with your logic. You disliking something = Opinion You accusing someone of being faceless =/= Opinion An opinion is a personal belief or idea that describes your personal experience with an object, person, or event. When you begin projecting descriptions on others/objects then you are no longer talking about you subjective experience with them. There is a big difference between saying "I find him boring" versus "he is faceless." Saying you find someone boring says that you are at fault for being unable to connect to him. Calling someone faceless says that the object in question is at fault for not seeking you out. The truth is that neither you nor the object *have* to seek each other out. If you want to connect to said Korean, you should reach out to them by either learning Korean or reading lots of interviews. If the Korean thinks its important to learn english and wear costumes to play exotic monkey to white people, it is up to him to make the decision. When you start projecting what you want the koreans to do by calling them faceless and whining about how your German and germans don't need to learn Korean; it makes you sound a bit too midwest american for my book. Your allowed to have your opinion. You're allowed to find people who don't look like you to be boring. But when you start saying that they should change to fit your standards, that they don't have personalities, that they don't seem human just because they're different than you--then you start going down a pretty dark path. "Faceless Korean" is kind of a tactless label for Korean players that haven't distinguished themselves from the rest. It has nothing to do with personality. Flash hasnt tried to court foreign fans as much as DRG or MC,but Nobody would call Flash a faceless Korean because he's goddam Flash. Leenock and Life aren't seen as faceless Koreans even though in interviews they would give the exact same answers as Jjakji or Alive or Sniper. But they they've come to foreign tournaments and won and they are still high school students so their story is very relatable for a lot of people. Those kind of stories don't come out much for your average Korean. They get a winners interview which are so generic it's comical (hamburgers...) and an awkward trophy presentation.
The problem I have with this train of thought is that KeSPA has released a lot of content with regards to the players to do just that. If you haven't watched then you haven't watched it. I cannot change that, but the content is out there. Let's use another example. I don't care for Sarah Silverman's comedy and I find her obnoxious. I don't follow her projects, but I know her content exists. Does this make her any less of a celebrity? The answer is no. Does this mean she's faceless to me? No. At the end of the day I still accept her celebrity status. Doesn't mean I have to like her, but she most certainly isn't faceless because she's produced a lot of content just like KeSPA/OGN have for the players. No one said you had to like the content, but we cannot really call them faceless.
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I honestly think the only intelligent choice is to stay with EG. He receives salary from EG which is on par, if not better, than kespa, but the real kicker is, he gets to travel to foreign tournaments all the time. Staying with EG is what I'm hoping for, and I would be surprised if he did go to any other team.
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Canada16217 Posts
On December 04 2013 05:26 arb wrote:
Lets hope he quits all together rand joins SoPSA
Not surprising coming from someone who doesn't like Starcraft 2.
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EPT
