This is how these matches were drawn. First places were placed in each part of the bracket randomly and a second place player was placed with them randomly as well. This ensures that two from the same group could not meet.
These matches will be Bo5 and will be played next week. The losers of these matches will play against each other for the 5th spot in the WCS Season 2 Finals.
good to see esf players showing that they haven't been outmatched by KeSPA players yet. It's quite incredible how many times in a row that soulkey, innovation and symbol has made it to the ro8
On July 19 2013 00:40 Hoonose wrote: I don't understand the bet. Is it for 1 million USD, or for my life?
If the player you vote for wins, you get 1 million USD, if he doesn't you die. As far as I know, most of the time this poll is used, the player that gets the most votes looses, even when he is highly favored to win, "killing off" a large percentage of the voters.
On July 19 2013 00:54 sc2superfan101 wrote: Will lol if 4 T's advance.
But I will also be sad because Bomber and Innovation are boring... :/
Bomber and Inno are boring?
Kinda...
Innovation is... alright, I guess? (Skill-wise he's ridiculous, but entertainment wise... not so much) Bomber is too much of a fanboy-magnet. The only entertainment I get out of him is watching him lose.
On July 19 2013 00:54 sc2superfan101 wrote: Will lol if 4 T's advance.
But I will also be sad because Bomber and Innovation are boring... :/
Bomber and Inno are boring?
Kinda...
Innovation is... alright, I guess? (Skill-wise he's ridiculous, but entertainment wise... not so much) Bomber is too much of a fanboy-magnet. The only entertainment I get out of him is watching him lose.
Well Bomber's TvT games so far have been entertaining (but it is post-hellbat TvT so...). The bomber-rule thing is getting seriously old though.
interesting, two best players against eachother in the ro8. Im not sure if i'd still call innovation favorite to win it with that pairing. Im going with Symbol, Innovation, Rain and Bomber to advance with Soulkey grabbing the last seasonal ticket.
Bomber doesn't have a terrible chance to win this. We know his TvT is unbeatable right now, so there's 3 players here we can safely bet on him against, he recently beat First in GSTL playoffs, and the two Zergs are on the other side of the bracket and have INnoVation to get through. A bit of luck (Supernova beating Rain) and he could be your OSL champion.
But more likely he's going to break our hearts immediately.
It's crazy that Bomber's win over Innovation caused this. If the expected result of an Innovation victory happened, Bomber would be playing soulkey and it would look like yet another innovation vs soulkey finals.
Im so happy it worked out this way I could see an Innovation vs. Bomber finals incoming!
Protoss definitely has an advantage in the matchup now due to the hellbat nerf, so Ro4 is going to be: Symbol v Innovation, and Rain v First, with Innovation steamrolling Rain 4-0 in the final.
Please Innovation make sure you scout for early banelings and roaches, dont forget to repair structures and make sure you dont run your medivacs into mutas!!
Go Maru! He has been one of my favorite Terrans since I say him do a crazy rush with hellion drops with 2 landed Vikings as support. He definitely deserves at least a top 4 since he hasn't had the chance to go to foreign tourneys and has always been considered "the mini MKP", which I think in this day and age is an insult of sorts.
Also would like to see Bomber or Innovation win. Obvious Terran bias detected.
Little question, if, by some miracle, we got a symbol-bomber final, which one will be stronger, the bomber curse or the symbol ability to always finish second ?
On July 19 2013 07:25 Lock0n wrote: Protoss definitely has an advantage in the matchup now due to the hellbat nerf, so Ro4 is going to be: Symbol v Innovation, and Rain v First, with Innovation steamrolling Rain 4-0 in the final.
terran definently has an advantage due to amulet removed from the game . " high templar nerf "
On July 19 2013 07:25 Lock0n wrote: Protoss definitely has an advantage in the matchup now due to the hellbat nerf, so Ro4 is going to be: Symbol v Innovation, and Rain v First, with Innovation steamrolling Rain 4-0 in the final.
terran definently has an advantage due to amulet removed from the game . " high templar nerf "
poor San is just now recovering from that nerf, lol
On July 19 2013 07:25 Lock0n wrote: Protoss definitely has an advantage in the matchup now due to the hellbat nerf, so Ro4 is going to be: Symbol v Innovation, and Rain v First, with Innovation steamrolling Rain 4-0 in the final.
terran definently has an advantage due to amulet removed from the game . " high templar nerf "
poor San is just now recovering from that nerf, lol
san zenith is never gonna recover from that nerf lool
After sOs "upset" Soulkey in WCS Season 1 Finals semifinals 1, I said, the only player who can beat INnoVation is Soulkey and the only one who can beat him is sOs (and maybe INnoVation). Unless Rain proves me wrong Soulkey should be able to take OSL
On July 19 2013 07:25 Lock0n wrote: Protoss definitely has an advantage in the matchup now due to the hellbat nerf, so Ro4 is going to be: Symbol v Innovation, and Rain v First, with Innovation steamrolling Rain 4-0 in the final.
terran definently has an advantage due to amulet removed from the game . " high templar nerf "
poor San is just now recovering from that nerf, lol
san zenith is never gonna recover from that nerf lool
he's also never gonna stop being called SanZenith/ManZenith/SadZenith lol
Looking like a likely 0 Terran ro4 to me. Rain and First have ungodly PvT, Symbol is the roach/bane god, and I've honestly been much more impressed with Soulkey's play lately than Innovation's.
On July 19 2013 08:38 Cricketer12 wrote: After sOs "upset" Soulkey in WCS Season 1 Finals semifinals 1, I said, the only player who can beat INnoVation is Soulkey and the only one who can beat him is sOs (and maybe INnoVation). Unless Rain proves me wrong Soulkey should be able to take OSL
On July 19 2013 09:21 Rhaegal wrote: In what world can Bomber beat Soulkey or Rain? I'm confused by the voting.
He just 2-0'ed Innovation.
Wouldn't be shocked at all if he beat the inconsistent Rain. Soulkey should be favored over Bomber, but I wouldn't be too shocked if Bomber won.
Rain's PvT is the opposite of inconsistent. 82% match winrate.. among the highest of any progamer in a matchup. (same % as Jaedongs ZvZ which he gets heralded for.)
I'm surprised Bomber is even leading in the head poll. He barely beat First in the GSTL by hitting before storm was out, but elsewhere First has looked far better in that matchup.
While Bomber looked extremely strong in TvT (83% win rate O_O), it's actually his only match up in HotS that's over 50%. His TvZ results lately have been very suspect, and he hasn't played a whole lot of TvP (he also lost to Rain in the Ro32).
Maru 3:1 Symbol Innovation 3:2 Soulkey Rain 3:1 Supernova (easiest one to call imo, nova takes one with an scv all in) First 3:2 Bomber (First's PvT is a little too good)
Innovation 4:1 Maru First 4:3 Rain (toss-up, they're 2-2 this OSL but First will make for a better final)
Bomber set his law into effect when he beat innovation. Good run, now to prepare for heartbreak Also gj maru and supernova showing they know how to starcraft!
On July 19 2013 10:50 DavoS wrote: Bomber set his law into effect when he beat innovation. Good run, now to prepare for heartbreak Also gj maru and supernova showing they know how to starcraft!
I dunno, First was pretty hyped after the ro32 and start of the ro16, Bomber's hype train could always pick up some more speed before he sets off the payload, imagine how much hype he would acquire if he made it into the finals.
I'm also kinda bummed about First, Bomber and Supernova being on the same side of the bracket, but if any one of them can beat Rain, a final between them and Innovation would definitely be the most exciting outcome for me.
I think First has the ability to win this entire tournament... after all, his PvT is beautiful, enough to beat Bomber, and perhaps enough to beat INnoVation as well. His biggest challenge will be Rain, but PvP is PvP...
Not many people's talking about Rain vs. SuperNova. But I gotta say, Rain has undoubtedly one the very best PvTs in the world, but SuperNova has been on a resurgence. Interesting to see them clash.
On July 19 2013 11:15 HolyArrow wrote: Imagine if all the Terran players won their matches. GomTvTvTvT all over again!
I could see this happening except I don't think Maru can beat Symbol.
maru is undefeated against symbol even in WoL zerg times ;p
I can't find any offline matches where they have played each other
Regardless Symbol is the better player and without early hellbat drops Maru doesn't have the macro game that Symbol has to fall back on. I don't even see Maru taking a game tbh
I know Maru got a 2-0 in a qualifier. The WoL one idk. Must have been before Symbol went beast mode.
I think Maru will get a game though, Symbol as odd as it may seem has looked a little less hot in ZvT lately. Especially, with that recent game against Yoda o.O. He's great at evolving though, that's why he's been so consistent and that's why he'll win in the end.
On July 19 2013 11:15 HolyArrow wrote: Imagine if all the Terran players won their matches. GomTvTvTvT all over again!
I could see this happening except I don't think Maru can beat Symbol.
maru is undefeated against symbol even in WoL zerg times ;p
I can't find any offline matches where they have played each other
Regardless Symbol is the better player and without early hellbat drops Maru doesn't have the macro game that Symbol has to fall back on. I don't even see Maru taking a game tbh
I know Maru got a 2-0 in a qualifier. The WoL one idk. Must have been before Symbol went beast mode.
I think Maru will get a game though, Symbol as odd as it may seem has looked a little less hot in ZvT lately. Especially, with that recent game against Yoda o.O. He's great at evolving though, that's why he's been so consistent and that's why he'll win in the end.
All this bandwagon cheering for Bomber has definitely made me an antifan. I'm going to be cheering for a supernova finals with either Symbol or Innovation where Supernova wins it all.
On July 19 2013 14:02 BisuDagger wrote: All this bandwagon cheering for Bomber has definitely made me an antifan. I'm going to be cheering for a supernova finals with either Symbol or Innovation where Supernova wins it all.
What are you gunna do if suddenly bisu gets a massive band wagon anti hate your god?!?!
On July 19 2013 14:19 GolemMadness wrote: Bomber's only over 50% in one match up. Until he shows he can win in something other than TvT, this hype is ridiculous.
I'm feeling First can beat Bomber. I like both of them but First seems more likely to win the whole thing if he gets through.
On July 19 2013 14:02 BisuDagger wrote: All this bandwagon cheering for Bomber has definitely made me an antifan. I'm going to be cheering for a supernova finals with either Symbol or Innovation where Supernova wins it all.
You can't blame them for being fans! Bomber is a loveable guy who shows such exciting games. Yes he chokes all the freaking time and its sometimes painful to watch but I can see why they think he deserves to win.
I like all these oldschool eSF players. I wasn't really thinking about them a few months ago, and it's amazing to see their resurgence. Gogo First, Supernova, Maru and Bomber!!
On July 19 2013 14:02 BisuDagger wrote: All this bandwagon cheering for Bomber has definitely made me an antifan. I'm going to be cheering for a supernova finals with either Symbol or Innovation where Supernova wins it all.
You can't blame them for being fans! Bomber is a loveable guy who shows such exciting games. Yes he chokes all the freaking time and its sometimes painful to watch but I can see why they think he deserves to win.
I like all these oldschool eSF players. I wasn't really thinking about them a few months ago, and it's amazing to see their resurgence. Gogo First, Supernova, Maru and Bomber!!
Not just that he is loveable. He fucking slain the three elephants who were unfortunate enough to be in his group, and shut up all the eSF haters out there. That alone made me a fan of his. His TvTs were smart and tactical, great macro too (very Mvp-esque).
On July 19 2013 14:02 BisuDagger wrote: All this bandwagon cheering for Bomber has definitely made me an antifan. I'm going to be cheering for a supernova finals with either Symbol or Innovation where Supernova wins it all.
What are you gunna do if suddenly bisu gets a massive band wagon anti hate your god?!?!
Bisu already had his massive bandwagon. I don't consider Bisu a god, just the greatest ever. If more people love Bisu again well that just makes sense to me
On July 19 2013 14:02 BisuDagger wrote: All this bandwagon cheering for Bomber has definitely made me an antifan. I'm going to be cheering for a supernova finals with either Symbol or Innovation where Supernova wins it all.
What are you gunna do if suddenly bisu gets a massive band wagon anti hate your god?!?!
Bisu already had his massive bandwagon. I don't consider Bisu a god, just the greatest ever. If more people love Bisu again well that just makes sense to me
Well I guess you can sit back and relax , Bomber has a ton of fans and always has, especially when he was considered to become an unbeatable monster that inevitably crashed since then fans have been up and down I guess waiting for the day of his grand return and take GSL/OSL by storm!
On July 19 2013 14:02 BisuDagger wrote: All this bandwagon cheering for Bomber has definitely made me an antifan. I'm going to be cheering for a supernova finals with either Symbol or Innovation where Supernova wins it all.
You can't blame them for being fans! Bomber is a loveable guy who shows such exciting games. Yes he chokes all the freaking time and its sometimes painful to watch but I can see why they think he deserves to win.
I like all these oldschool eSF players. I wasn't really thinking about them a few months ago, and it's amazing to see their resurgence. Gogo First, Supernova, Maru and Bomber!!
Not just that he is loveable. He fucking slain the three elephants who were unfortunate enough to be in his group, and shut up all the eSF haters out there. That alone made me a fan of his. His TvTs were smart and tactical, great macro too (very Mvp-esque).
I didn't know elephants played Starcraft. Are people still seriously using that term. Its so run down and childish and people using it deserve to be criticized. And where have all these ESF haters been. Bomber always has everyone take his side even with this "bombers law" home that has been run into the ground. But now that I'm on the antifan train its time to lay down hurt. Isn't he the guy who lost to Idra in a bo3 at mlg Orlando (nostalgia!!!!)
On July 19 2013 14:02 BisuDagger wrote: All this bandwagon cheering for Bomber has definitely made me an antifan. I'm going to be cheering for a supernova finals with either Symbol or Innovation where Supernova wins it all.
You can't blame them for being fans! Bomber is a loveable guy who shows such exciting games. Yes he chokes all the freaking time and its sometimes painful to watch but I can see why they think he deserves to win.
I like all these oldschool eSF players. I wasn't really thinking about them a few months ago, and it's amazing to see their resurgence. Gogo First, Supernova, Maru and Bomber!!
Not just that he is loveable. He fucking slain the three elephants who were unfortunate enough to be in his group, and shut up all the eSF haters out there. That alone made me a fan of his. His TvTs were smart and tactical, great macro too (very Mvp-esque).
I didn't know elephants played Starcraft. Are people still seriously using that term. Its so run down and childish and people using it deserve to be criticized. And where have all these ESF haters been. Bomber always has everyone take his side even with this "bombers law" home that has been run into the ground. But now that I'm on the antifan train its time to lay down hurt. Isn't he the guy who lost to Idra in a bo3 at mlg Orlando (nostalgia!!!!)
Yeah, I saw that series but wasn't IdrA on fire during that time too? I remember him crushing another Terran and then losing to MC.
I am just surprised, that people think Innovation > Soulkey. Just watch that guy tear everything apart.
Maru < Symbol (based purely on 'I hate TSL Zergs less then Prime terrans' otherwise it's 50/50, although neither of them could beat any of the remaining players, so yeah...) Soulkey > Innovation Rain > Supernova Bomber < First
On July 19 2013 15:55 Ammanas wrote: I am just surprised, that people think Innovation > Soulkey. Just watch that guy tear everything apart.
Maru < Symbol (based purely on 'I hate TSL Zergs less then Prime terrans' otherwise it's 50/50, although neither of them could beat any of the remaining players, so yeah...) Soulkey > Innovation Rain > Supernova Bomber < First
Because SK vT isn't that good to be honest. It will be a quick 3-0. Maybe 3-1 if Innovation decides to go 2 rax and get scouted because everybody knows he is going to 2 rax at least once.
On July 19 2013 14:02 BisuDagger wrote: All this bandwagon cheering for Bomber has definitely made me an antifan. I'm going to be cheering for a supernova finals with either Symbol or Innovation where Supernova wins it all.
How do you know it's bandwagon cheering? Bomber's an old-school SC2 player who's picked up a bunch of fans over the course of his career. He's been on the map as a good player ever since the end of 2010. I don't deny that Bomber gained some fans from his recent feats, but it's not really like Bomber is some previously unknown/unpopular player who suddenly gained a boatload of fans due to him winning a couple high-profile series.
On July 19 2013 14:02 BisuDagger wrote: All this bandwagon cheering for Bomber has definitely made me an antifan. I'm going to be cheering for a supernova finals with either Symbol or Innovation where Supernova wins it all.
I prefer to think of them as sheep returning to the flock. Bomber looked like he was going to set the world on fire in 2011, it's about time he had his resurgence.
I'm happy bomber is making waves. I really hope he is better at army control in tvz. There were so many times in the past where he would walk his whole army over burrow banes or get caught unsieged by ling/bling. If he has improved that aspect of his game, i think he is a serious contender.
On July 19 2013 16:55 LeLfe wrote: So players who were together in ro16 group stage, can play each other BEFORE the finals? I hate OSL's format a little more everyday
Didn't DRG and Genius meet eachother 3 times in the same GSL?
On July 19 2013 16:55 LeLfe wrote: So players who were together in ro16 group stage, can play each other BEFORE the finals? I hate OSL's format a little more everyday
Didn't DRG and Genius meet eachother 3 times in the same GSL?
they almost did. DRG dodged him in the ro16 group though.
On July 19 2013 16:55 LeLfe wrote: So players who were together in ro16 group stage, can play each other BEFORE the finals? I hate OSL's format a little more everyday
Didn't DRG and Genius meet eachother 3 times in the same GSL?
they almost did. DRG dodged him in the ro16 group though.
and the point was about meeting before the finals in the bracket, group stage with a ceremony to decide who plays who is not the same thing as an admin unable to give a proper bracket
I see Bomber winning this season, his TvT is insane and I believe he can beat First and Rain. In the finals Innovation will be waiting for Bomber to humiliate him in TvT once again.
On July 19 2013 14:02 BisuDagger wrote: All this bandwagon cheering for Bomber has definitely made me an antifan. I'm going to be cheering for a supernova finals with either Symbol or Innovation where Supernova wins it all.
What are you gunna do if suddenly bisu gets a massive band wagon anti hate your god?!?!
Bisu already had his massive bandwagon. I don't consider Bisu a god, just the greatest ever. If more people love Bisu again well that just makes sense to me
Bomber has always had a big fanbase on LR, either he loses or wins. You are just mad innovation lost. Admit it!!
By the way, can someone tell me how Bomber and Rain are on head 2 head ? Some people might be surprised
If someone is going to eliminate bomber, it will be bomber. And this matters because that means he could reach the finals and bomb it for us, making for the most one sided and possibly boring finals ever against soulkey
lol, the 2 esf titans bomber and first and the 2 kespa gods soulkey and innovation meeting in the ro8. they could both be finals aswell.
maru vs symbol is probably the least interesting match, as the 2 players there are probably the 2 least skilled still left in the tournament. rain vs supernova will be fun though!
we also could have no terran in the semifinals or only terrans in the semifinals. in both cases there will be whine lol.
Probably being a scrub here but what's going on with the 'Top 8' column of the aligulac prediction in the OP? Surely that should be 100% for every player as they're already in the Top 8?
On July 19 2013 21:36 Autotroph wrote: Probably being a scrub here but what's going on with the 'Top 8' column of the aligulac prediction in the OP? Surely that should be 100% for every player as they're already in the Top 8?
On July 19 2013 21:36 Autotroph wrote: Probably being a scrub here but what's going on with the 'Top 8' column of the aligulac prediction in the OP? Surely that should be 100% for every player as they're already in the Top 8?
As the person above said, the aligulac predicts where the tournament will end. So the top 8 percentages are the chances of finishing in the top 8.
1.st Rule of Starcraft: Bomber will always disapiont...yes i know he recently won against the unquestioned best player in the world 2:0 but Bombers tvt is the one side (He is a freaking GOD in this matchup) and thats why he advanced in n all terran group in first place, but think about his PvT. yes, it is not nearly at the lv. of his tvt, and he is most likely to have to play 2 protoss on the way to the final ( Rain & First ) and both of them are best at PvT, and i think this both are 2 of the best 3 PvT players in the world, so it VERY hard for bomber to make it through. Also never underestimate Maru he plays great and is only 15 ( mhm a 15 year old in the GSL underestimated by everyone who later won the tournament in order to beat the best player of his era ( wol and hots are to eras in my opinion, Mvp is the best in wol, inno in hots), i think this is possible to happen again For the win off it all i will go with Innovation (who else :D ) but i think if Rain makes it to the finals, he can beat Innovation. And then there is a pretty good playing Supernova, but i think he will et dempolised by Rain. My bets: Maru, INnovation, Rain & First in the Semis, INnovation vs First Finals, and INnovation wins it all
Really looking forward to Innovation vs Soulkey. I wonder if Soulkey will beat innovation with the standard ling/bane/muta or if he will prefer the roach/ling/bane style more.
On July 19 2013 14:02 BisuDagger wrote: All this bandwagon cheering for Bomber has definitely made me an antifan. I'm going to be cheering for a supernova finals with either Symbol or Innovation where Supernova wins it all.
What are you gunna do if suddenly bisu gets a massive band wagon anti hate your god?!?!
Bisu already had his massive bandwagon. I don't consider Bisu a god, just the greatest ever. If more people love Bisu again well that just makes sense to me
Bomber has always had a big fanbase on LR, either he loses or wins. You are just mad innovation lost. Admit it!!
By the way, can someone tell me how Bomber and Rain are on head 2 head ? Some people might be surprised
If someone is going to eliminate bomber, it will be bomber. And this matters because that means he could reach the finals and bomb it for us, making for the most one sided and possibly boring finals ever against soulkey
maybe by name value but Parting and Life haven't exactly looked in top form recently although Life took a step back in the right direction with his games vs jjakji
On July 20 2013 02:35 Shellshock1122 wrote: maybe by name value but Parting and Life haven't exactly looked in top form recently although Life took a step back in the right direction with his games vs jjakji
This may just be me putting too much value on their names, but I honestly think that both of them are just experiencing a bump in the road. Life's last to runs in the WCS were ended by the deathiest group of death known to SC2 and a best of 1 group stage. The only real places I've seen Life look "weak" is in the GSTL and his series against Sjow. I'm not as well versed in Parting's latest results but I saw his games against Soulkey and barring game 2 where Soulkey just got a build order win Parting looked pretty good. He lost game 1 by a fairly small margin against the current "best Zerg in the world", which is more than most Protoss's are capable of.
On July 20 2013 02:00 Emzeeshady wrote: It just occurred to me the best ESF and Kespa players of each race are in the quarters. And then there is Maru and Supernova :p.
Best esf players in Korea you mean? There is no way to compare Bomber to Mvp/Polt/Taeja. First is probably clearly better than Hero at this point.
On July 20 2013 03:11 GhandiEAGLE wrote: I have no idea how people think Bomber will ever win a tournament ever. He's good enough, but he's Bomber. Cmon.
psttt bomber has already won a MLG and Code A season(over Mvp in 2011)
On July 20 2013 08:10 Solux wrote: Given Bomber's Law, is there a possibility Bomber takes the win for Korea to set us up for an awful run at WCS World?
On July 20 2013 08:10 Solux wrote: Given Bomber's Law, is there a possibility Bomber takes the win for Korea to set us up for an awful run at WCS World?
No Bomber fan would even complain if that happen.
I think we need to be careful what we wish for. Remember, bomber always disappoints, and I don't think him playing poorly at WCS World would disappoint any bomber fan. Instead, he would win the GSL to make everyone think he's on top of his game, only to drop out of Code S/A into Code B, where he won't return for quite some time.
On July 20 2013 02:00 Emzeeshady wrote: It just occurred to me the best ESF and Kespa players of each race are in the quarters. And then there is Maru and Supernova :p.
Best esf players in Korea you mean? There is no way to compare Bomber to Mvp/Polt/Taeja. First is probably clearly better than Hero at this point.
Bomber, Mvp, Polt are pretty even. TaeJa is a little behind atm, imho.
On July 20 2013 02:00 Emzeeshady wrote: It just occurred to me the best ESF and Kespa players of each race are in the quarters. And then there is Maru and Supernova :p.
Best esf players in Korea you mean? There is no way to compare Bomber to Mvp/Polt/Taeja. First is probably clearly better than Hero at this point.
You're right... There's no way to compare Bomber to Polt or TaeJa because Polt and TaeJa (as well as HerO) aren't even eSF players.
On July 20 2013 08:10 Solux wrote: Given Bomber's Law, is there a possibility Bomber takes the win for Korea to set us up for an awful run at WCS World?
No Bomber fan would even complain if that happen.
I think we need to be careful what we wish for. Remember, bomber always disappoints, and I don't think him playing poorly at WCS World would disappoint any bomber fan. Instead, he would win the GSL to make everyone think he's on top of his game, only to drop out of Code S/A into Code B, where he won't return for quite some time.
if hes ever to finally win a GSL, which was bound to happen 2 years ago, he could just retire and no one would complain
On July 20 2013 03:11 GhandiEAGLE wrote: I have no idea how people think Bomber will ever win a tournament ever. He's good enough, but he's Bomber. Cmon.