It’s time… for some intra-continental ballistic mayhem..
After over a year of absence, SHOUTcraft returns with our biggest and most ambitious tournament yet, SHOUTcraft America. 16 top players from North and South America will battle it out for a $10,000 prizepool in a “GSL-style” dual tournament. 4 groups of players, all of whom are permanent residents of the Americas, will be invited based on their Grandmaster ranking at the end of the current season (season ends May 1st). These players will compete to find out who truly is the #1 Starcraft 2 player in America.
SHOUTcraft America will be presented over the first three weekends in May, with a Saturday & Sunday show, culminating in the grand finals at the end of the month. Before each match we’ll get to hear from the players in live face-off interviews, setting the scene for the coming showdown. Players will battle through their group in an effort to reach the Round of 8, where the stakes increase with bigger prizes and a Best of 5 single elimination format. The final 4 will face each other in a Best of 7 to determine who is worthy to play in the grand finals.
Who is the Grandmaster of American Starcraft? Find out in SHOUTcraft America, broadcasting live from May the 4th, 2013 at 2pm EDT on http://twitch.tv/totalbiscuit with casting provided by TotalBiscuit and special guest commentators.
The Ideology of SHOUTcraft America:
I’d like to talk to you about why this tournament exists and our hopes for the future. Genna Bain is responsible for the creation of this event. While she is the owner of the Korean SC2 team Axiom, she, as an American has a lot of admiration for the American Starcraft 2 scene.
There is currently a growing concern as American players have struggled to compete with Korean and European players. Many are also predicting that WCS North America will rapidly become dominated by Korean talent after Season 1 has ended. The line-up already looks daunting and it would not be unfair to say that it’s likely many American players will fall to the Challenger Division. Unfortunately, Challenger is a lengthy and difficult tournament with a relatively small prize pool. It is also where many Koreans who elect to switch after Season 1 may find themselves vying for precious spots to get into the Premier Division. American Starcraft has struggled to remain competitive and many prominent personalities within the scene have stated repeatedly that there is a need for real American competition; a division in which American players can compete against each other on a regular basis. This would not only assist in developing their skills on a more level playing field, but also expand their fanbase, potential prize winnings, and sponsorship appeal. If we have any hope to bridge the gap between regions, players in America require a healthy eSports ecosystem. We want SHOUTcraft America to be a step in that direction. This is an American tournament made exclusively for American players. Participants are required to produce proof of citizenship or permanent residency in either North or South America. Players who are not citizens of a continental American country or hold a permanent residency status, such as a Greencard, will not be eligible to participate. Outside of WCS events (prior to 2013), restrictions have rarely been used in SC2 events. We believe this kind of protectionism can be a positive force for the scene and is mirrored in many sports across the world. Local competition spurs on eventual excellence and is also vital to maintaining fan interest. Fans need local heroes to cheer for and we want to start building that stage.
With SHOUTcraft America, we are taking a step towards invigorating competition on the Grandmaster ladder. Our first tournament will allow players to qualify for a spot based on their Grandmaster ladder ranking at the end of the current season. In future, we hope to hold a longer qualification period to allow more players to participate. This would also encourage a period of intense competition on the Grandmaster ladder. However, this tournament is very much a test case, a proof of concept, and has to be done within a specific timeframe. We feel that in legitimizing the Grandmaster ladder, it allows players to strive towards a very tangible goal. Rather than grinding ladder, players are fighting for guaranteed prize money. As with all our SHOUTcraft tournaments, in SHOUTcraft America, everyone gets paid. Athletes should be paid for their work and the prize money will increase significantly the further into the tournament the players advance. This not only brings positive competition to the ladder but also avoids the many issues we have seen with larger qualifier events in recent months. We have a small staff and we do not intend to bite off more than we can chew.
The questions on our minds are, “Is American competition exciting?” and “Will people watch it”? We will find out the answer with SHOUTcraft America. We’re not just relying on great games. We’ll be showing you the people behind the game. Each of the players will be participating in face-to-face pre-game interviews with their opponents. Banter, trash talk and psyching out your opposition are encouraged. Online tournaments have often been barren, lacking in personality. We intend to change that. Viewers will also be able to support their favorite players or reward particularly outstanding play with our unique tipjar system. No other tournament has allowed fans to tip players directly, and we think it’s a great idea as it encourages great play and directly supports those trying to make a living through professional gaming. Contributing to the player tipjars is entirely optional, but in a scene where it’s often very hard to directly support individual players, we feel it is a step in the right direction.
Games will be presented on a free stream in 720p at a smooth 60 frames per second. We will integrate various new technologies including Gameheart UI maps for a superior viewing experience. The broadcasts will also feature our in-house developed Virtual Jersey scoreboard, providing improved ROI and exposure for the sponsors that make professional gaming possible. Community casters will also be free to use any replays from the tournament on their Youtube channels or livestreams. We’ll even provide the scoreboards for you so you don’t have to make them yourself!
Commentary for the event will be provided by TotalBiscuit and special guest co-casters over the course of SHOUTcraft America. Our dual-tournament format should be familiar to most people : A double-elimination group stage leading into Quarterfinals (BO5), followed by the Semifinals (BO7) and ending with the Finals (BO7). We will broadcast on Saturdays and Sundays beginning at 2pm EDT for the convenience of both US and EU viewers. Spoiler-free series VoDs will be made available via Youtube after the show and complete 60fps Twitch archives will also be available for your convenience.
We hope you enjoy SHOUTcraft America. This tournament is funded in part by the warchest of donations we received at the end of SHOUTcraft 4. Our sponsor, Cynical Brit will be providing the remainder of funds for the prize pool. It’s been too long since the last big SHOUTcraft event. We hope with our biggest and most ambitious tournament yet, we can knock it out of the park.
We’re not just relying on great games. We’ll be showing you the people behind the game. Each of the players will be participating in face-to-face pre-game interviews with their opponents. Banter, trash talk and psyching out your opposition are encouraged.
U sir are a sick nerd baller <3 awesome idea i think the community will be very thankfull for this Event as many were demanding a real Reagionlocked Tournament im gonna watch for sure
I’d like to talk to you about why this tournament exists and our hopes for the future. Genna Bain is responsible for the creation of this event.
Genna Bain @GennaBain 14m Going to sit here and wait the 3 seconds it takes for everyone to give @totalbiscuit the credit for my tournament.... #everytime
TL:DR for people.
Also for
Chris Loranger @LorangerChris 9m . @GennaBain nice but with ppl like me and scarlett (ezily top 16 na player) in korea; we wont have top 16 gm accounts in na so cant compete
Genna Bain @GennaBain 8m @lorangerchris It's only the beginning. Hope we can catch you the next time around. <3
As it says it's a proof of concept. If it works I think we can expect more
On April 24 2013 17:36 Pandemona wrote: Finally. DeMuslim gets to show he is the best NA player Oh and win a tournament for first time in a while :D
Oh, thanks for making this TB
Polt.
Oh fuck ;_; But he shouldn't count ((((( rofl
Actually if you read the fine print, then neither Demuslim or Polt should be allowed to play. Neither are Permanent Residents or Citizens in the legal sense.
Looks like heaps of fun and hopefully more to come, it might make ladder mean more + help blizzard decide to help fix how many hackers there seems to be.
On April 24 2013 17:49 farvacola wrote: Hell yeah, I knew something like this was bound to happen. More smart business decisions from the Bane household I'll definitely be watching.
Now makes StarCraft tournaments to free the people of Gotham America
Awesome, but I'm wondering is it good or bad to force players to play on NA? It can be a cool way to invite players but a lot of top level players don't spend much time on NA.
On April 24 2013 17:57 KillaRM wrote: Awesome, but I'm wondering is it good or bad to force players to play on NA? It can be a cool way to invite players but a lot of top level players don't spend much time on NA.
I think that might be the point of this, to foster the NA scene and make new talent grow forth the best people need to be on that scene to make it grow
On April 24 2013 17:57 KillaRM wrote: Awesome, but I'm wondering is it good or bad to force players to play on NA? It can be a cool way to invite players but a lot of top level players don't spend much time on NA.
It seems as the idea behind it is to encourage competition on the NA ladder, which seems a good idea to me.
First of all, I <3 the idea. However, I'm looking forward to how you approach:
- the korean smurfs which routinely make top 16 GM, like anonymous. - the korean non-smurfs who own face, like cShuttle (I think he lives in NA though) - the European players who ladder on NA sometimes. Is Stephano going to be the Great American Hope (G.A.H.)? - Idra being allowed to compete, despite his venomous, rude behavior every single day on ladder, and in most tournaments he's in. (I USED to like the guy mind you) - the map hackers who sometimes make top 16- saw Grubby play against one recently on EU, top GM, extremely obvious about it with horrible micro.
If you can take care of that stuff (maybe minus the Idra point, I guess he's popular or whatever), I'm really looking forward to it!
On April 24 2013 17:36 Pandemona wrote: Finally. DeMuslim gets to show he is the best NA player Oh and win a tournament for first time in a while :D
Oh, thanks for making this TB
Polt.
Oh fuck ;_; But he shouldn't count ((((( rofl
Actually if you read the fine print, then neither Demuslim or Polt should be allowed to play. Neither are Permanent Residents or Citizens in the legal sense.
TB said during the stream hijack of WSC NA that DeMu has documentation to make him a US resident or something? As he is not on a working VISA nor is he a student?
On April 24 2013 18:00 Inimic wrote: First of all, I <3 the idea. However, I'm looking forward to how you approach:
- the korean smurfs which routinely make top 16 GM, like anonymous. - the korean non-smurfs who own face, like cShuttle (I think he lives in NA though) - the European players who ladder on NA sometimes. Is Stephano going to be the Great American Hope (G.A.H.)? - Idra being allowed to compete, despite his venomous, rude behavior every single day on ladder, and in most tournaments he's in. (I USED to like the guy mind you) - the map hackers who sometimes make top 16- saw Grubby play against one recently on EU, top GM, extremely obvious about it with horrible micro.
If you can take care of that stuff (maybe minus the Idra point, I guess he's popular or whatever), I'm really looking forward to it!
From the op:
Participants are required to produce proof of citizenship or permanent residency in either North or South America.
So no EU or KR players (outside of the continent at least). Hackers may be a concern but so is it for most online tournaments. I'm sure they try their best to make sure no one of the players are a known hackers at least.
On April 24 2013 17:36 Pandemona wrote: Finally. DeMuslim gets to show he is the best NA player Oh and win a tournament for first time in a while :D
Oh, thanks for making this TB
Polt.
Oh fuck ;_; But he shouldn't count ((((( rofl
Actually if you read the fine print, then neither Demuslim or Polt should be allowed to play. Neither are Permanent Residents or Citizens in the legal sense.
TB said during the stream hijack of WSC NA that DeMu has documentation to make him a US resident or something? As he is not on a working VISA nor is he a student?
Pretty sure he mentioned this in ITG episode or few back, or somewhere at least. If you have time to dig it up from a show/interview he has been, feel free.
On April 24 2013 18:00 Inimic wrote: First of all, I <3 the idea. However, I'm looking forward to how you approach:
- the korean smurfs which routinely make top 16 GM, like anonymous. - the korean non-smurfs who own face, like cShuttle (I think he lives in NA though) - the European players who ladder on NA sometimes. Is Stephano going to be the Great American Hope (G.A.H.)? - Idra being allowed to compete, despite his venomous, rude behavior every single day on ladder, and in most tournaments he's in. (I USED to like the guy mind you) - the map hackers who sometimes make top 16- saw Grubby play against one recently on EU, top GM, extremely obvious about it with horrible micro.
If you can take care of that stuff (maybe minus the Idra point, I guess he's popular or whatever), I'm really looking forward to it!
Participants are required to produce proof of citizenship or permanent residency in either North or South America.
So no EU or KR players (outside of the continent at least). Hackers may be a concern but so is it for most online tournaments. I'm sure they try their best to make sure no one of the players are a known hackers at least.
This sounds really good, Shoutcraft Invitationals have always been great. Price pool is really nice too! Mr. & Mrs. Bain your contributions towards SC2 scene are to be admired. Can't wait!
Hey guys! Thanks so much for the initial wave of support. This idea just sort of came on while I was watching my guys play in WCS qualifiers. I'm American, so my heart was breaking seeing so many spots for an NA event go to non-NA players. Not to take anything away from how awesome those players are, but I really want to infuse our region's ladder with some much needed enthusiasm.
To clarify a point some of you are bringing up : Eligibility is dependent on the player having either citizenship or a permanent residency card (green card or equivalent) for any North America or South America country.
On April 24 2013 17:36 Pandemona wrote: Finally. DeMuslim gets to show he is the best NA player Oh and win a tournament for first time in a while :D
Oh, thanks for making this TB
Polt.
Oh fuck ;_; But he shouldn't count ((((( rofl
Actually if you read the fine print, then neither Demuslim or Polt should be allowed to play. Neither are Permanent Residents or Citizens in the legal sense.
TB said during the stream hijack of WSC NA that DeMu has documentation to make him a US resident or something? As he is not on a working VISA nor is he a student?
Actually i just checked the VOD, at 16:35, Demuslim talks about his situation. Basically he is a foreigner, sorting out his working visa.
On April 24 2013 17:36 Pandemona wrote: Finally. DeMuslim gets to show he is the best NA player Oh and win a tournament for first time in a while :D
Oh, thanks for making this TB
Polt.
Oh fuck ;_; But he shouldn't count ((((( rofl
Actually if you read the fine print, then neither Demuslim or Polt should be allowed to play. Neither are Permanent Residents or Citizens in the legal sense.
TB said during the stream hijack of WSC NA that DeMu has documentation to make him a US resident or something? As he is not on a working VISA nor is he a student?
Actually i just checked the VOD, at 16:35, Demuslim talks about his situation. Basically he is a foreigner, sorting out his working visa.
Looks pretty sweet, only thing that I don't like is the big prize pool. I'd rather see a few smaller 1-2k events for a scene that doesn't have that many "Oh my god he is so godly I can't believe it" -players in it.
even tho im not that big of a fan of tb's casting, he (and his wife) are probably one of if not the biggest contributors to sc2 atm. so eh basicly what im saying is tyvm!
This is exactly what Blizzard was supposed to do. We are such a lucky community to have people like TB and Genna to step in and do this stuff for us when everyone else fails.
Oh wow, as much as many people hate on TB for various reasons you have to respect the work he puts into our community. Great to see! And Genna ofcourse
On April 24 2013 18:04 GTR wrote: Anyone know if top 4 also get a small amount of WCS points for their final standing?
That'd be great, since it is more north american than WCS NA...
Wouldn't it be unfair tho? Shouldn't the points be from stuff that anyone signed up for NA WCS can play in?
It depends, I don't really have any problems with WCS the way they let people in (esp. the fact that they don't care about nationality).
Still, WCS NA don't do that much for the NA scene. People who are already well established got invited. Qualified players are all koreans. Then, if you wanted to try to step it up as a rising NA player, you had to beat mid-tier Korean (thing even established NA pros don't do regularly).
So, it doesn't help to grow the scene at all... People already established are already in, new players who could cross the line between amateur and semi pro are left out since qualifying was quite out of reach.
Then, it shouldn't give too much points, but a small amount would be great.
On April 24 2013 18:04 GTR wrote: Anyone know if top 4 also get a small amount of WCS points for their final standing?
That'd be great, since it is more north american than WCS NA...
Wouldn't it be unfair tho? Shouldn't the points be from stuff that anyone signed up for NA WCS can play in?
It depends, I don't really have any problems with WCS the way they let people in (esp. the fact that they don't care about nationality).
Still, WCS NA don't do that much for the NA scene. People who are already well established got invited. Qualified players are all koreans. Then, if you wanted to try to step it up as a rising NA player, you had to beat mid-tier Korean (thing even established NA pros don't do regularly).
So, it doesn't help to grow the scene at all... People already established are already in, new players who could cross the line between amateur and semi pro are left out since qualifying was quite out of reach.
Then, it shouldn't give too much points, but a small amount would be great.
I do get the whole growing the scene point, but if the NA WCS is open for everyone from anywhere, the point tournaments should be as well. Unless ofc the same thing is done in all the other WCS regions as well to give a small boost to "local" players.
That's exactly what the SC2 scene needs. Total Biscuit seems to be one of the few people of the scene who's not delusional these days. He was right about calling the EG house a frat house (which is pretty much admitted by them now, because they're feeling the need to create another "real" training house now) and he's right about strenghtening the NA scene.
Sad that he's decided not to make a foreigner team with Axiom though, i believe that he's one of the few who could actually help his players to be on the level to compete with koreans.
DeMu is very unlucky I guess... Not invited to WCS NA even though he's better than half of the players involved, and not eligible for this tournament because is green card is not yet done.
On April 24 2013 18:22 Intricacy wrote: Hey guys! Thanks so much for the initial wave of support. This idea just sort of came on while I was watching my guys play in WCS qualifiers. I'm American, so my heart was breaking seeing so many spots for an NA event go to non-NA players. Not to take anything away from how awesome those players are, but I really want to infuse our region's ladder with some much needed enthusiasm.
To clarify a point some of you are bringing up : Eligibility is dependent on the player having either citizenship or a permanent residency card (green card or equivalent) for any North America or South America country.
I think it is a fantastic opportunity to tackle down hackers.. If more tournaments to come are based on ladder ranking, then it should urge blizzard to rapidly react against hackers. Very good idea..looking forward to it !
On April 24 2013 18:00 Inimic wrote: First of all, I <3 the idea. However, I'm looking forward to how you approach:
- Idra being allowed to compete, despite his venomous, rude behavior every single day on ladder, and in most tournaments he's in. (I USED to like the guy mind you)
If you can take care of that stuff (maybe minus the Idra point, I guess he's popular or whatever), I'm really looking forward to it!
bahaha
wtf
#boycottidra
edit: thanks bains! look forward to watching the tour
this event is a better wcs NA than wcs NA. the structure actually supports the goal and message, supporting and valuing american players. rather than WCS NA which says its an na qualifier but 99% chance will just be sending koreans to the world finals.
Is Demuslim included? I do not know if he is a permanent resident of the US. Although, Polt should clean house seeing as he lives in Texas now. But he only really practices on Korean ladder so he's going to have to put in some work on NA to get top 16.
This is great, hope a lot of people tune in. Props for doing something for the NA scene, and because you got TB who pulls huge viewer numbers to cast, it might just work.
On April 24 2013 19:19 Darkhoarse wrote: Is Demuslim included? I do not know if he is a permanent resident of the US. Although, Polt should clean house seeing as he lives in Texas now. But he only really practices on Korean ladder so he's going to have to put in some work on NA to get top 16.
Neither Polt nor Demuslim can compete, they don't have a green card nor do they have citizenship.
Wonder who the guest co-caster will be? Obvious choice would be Husky, however I hope Apollo makes an appearance, for old time sake (it as a SHOUTcraft tournament after all).
Much respect to the organizers and great for the players.
But kind of strange to reward the scene whose organizers and fans (at least the elitist ones) care the least about growing and supporting local players. Well, maybe it shouldn't seen as a reward but a niche that can turn quite successful by itself.
On April 24 2013 19:20 StarVe wrote: This is great, hope a lot of people tune in. Props for doing something for the NA scene, and because you got TB who pulls huge viewer numbers to cast, it might just work.
On April 24 2013 19:19 Darkhoarse wrote: Is Demuslim included? I do not know if he is a permanent resident of the US. Although, Polt should clean house seeing as he lives in Texas now. But he only really practices on Korean ladder so he's going to have to put in some work on NA to get top 16.
Neither Polt nor Demuslim can compete, they don't have a green card nor do they have citizenship.
Demuslim can't catch a break , can he :-(
Nice job TB and Genna, will be interesting to follow for sure.
This sounds wonderful. I honestly don't know that many north americans pro-gamers (and I live in the united states lulzlulz) so I have no idea who to cheer for. I am sure this tournament will provide me with a new american player to cheer on.
Awesome! Hope there are qualifiers for this, I want to know without a doubt that this was open to every top player in North America not just the ones popular enough to get invited.
On April 24 2013 19:20 StarVe wrote: This is great, hope a lot of people tune in. Props for doing something for the NA scene, and because you got TB who pulls huge viewer numbers to cast, it might just work.
On April 24 2013 19:19 Darkhoarse wrote: Is Demuslim included? I do not know if he is a permanent resident of the US. Although, Polt should clean house seeing as he lives in Texas now. But he only really practices on Korean ladder so he's going to have to put in some work on NA to get top 16.
Neither Polt nor Demuslim can compete, they don't have a green card nor do they have citizenship.
I agree, I think this is awesome of TB to a) continue his SHOUTcrafts and b) do something huge for the AM scene!
I'll definitely tune in (time difference permitting)!
Now if only DeMusliM's green card would arrive before the end of the ladder season... I'm stoked, hopefully QXC, and all the 'merican fan favorites can get in
The idea of making this ladder based is a fantastic one, encouraging people to play on the NA ladder seriously which should raise it's skill cap.
The only thing i wonder about is the exclusivity of the GM ladder, maybe it would be better just to say players with the top 16 points in all of master league? Or is it safe to say that if you are that high you will always make it into GM regardless of the exclusivity?
Sounds like an amazing tournament! Will give it a watch!
Really starting to look like Demuslim would be better off out side of America. Although he has fostered one of the largest fan bases (more people watching Demuslim than MLG the last few days with 12k veiwers each day/night) and is one of the best foreign Terran's, he has been kinda screwed by every tournament so far in America. (hots)
On April 24 2013 18:41 TigerKarl wrote: That's exactly what the SC2 scene needs. Total Biscuit seems to be one of the few people of the scene who's not delusional these days. He was right about calling the EG house a frat house (which is pretty much admitted by them now, because they're feeling the need to create another "real" training house now) and he's right about strenghtening the NA scene.
Sad that he's decided not to make a foreigner team with Axiom though, i believe that he's one of the few who could actually help his players to be on the level to compete with Koreans.
TB is great however I need to clarify one point. Genna Bain is the primary organiser of this event. TB is the man behind the mic but Genna is the one behind the scenes calling many of the shots and specifically organising this event. Perfect husband and wife team!
That said i also agree and have said so many times that another Korean team was a wrong move. I like all the Axiom players (especially like Alicia even though I am zerg!) but mass Koreas everywhere is not growing our sport.
On April 24 2013 21:04 scii wrote: Sounds like an amazing tournament! Will give it a watch!
Really starting to look like Demuslim would be better off out side of America. Although he has fostered one of the largest fan bases (more people watching Demuslim than MLG the last few days with 12k veiwers each day/night) and is one of the best foreign Terran's, he has been kinda screwed by every tournament so far in America. (hots)
Haha that point is so good ^ _ ^ I wonder where Demuslim would be had he stayed in europe, with regular Dremhacks, IEM's etc. to attend. Not to forget the wcs eu seed that he would have had :S Props to him though, i would be in such a negative mood with all this going around, be he seems happier than ever
Genna Bain @GennaBain 14m Going to sit here and wait the 3 seconds it takes for everyone to give @totalbiscuit the credit for my tournament.... #everytime
Chris Loranger @LorangerChris 9m . @GennaBain nice but with ppl like me and scarlett (ezily top 16 na player) in korea; we wont have top 16 gm accounts in na so cant compete
Genna Bain @GennaBain 8m @lorangerchris It's only the beginning. Hope we can catch you the next time around. <3
As it says it's a proof of concept. If it works I think we can expect more
Well easy solution is next to make it a 32 man tournament, with top 16 American players qualifing directly and for additional 16 spot a qualification mini tournament where any American resident or national can apply for
Continued to be impressed and inspired by Genna and TB's contributions to Esports and the gaming world. They've been around a long time, and this is just awesome. They support and foster growth of starcraft in all parts of the world, and treat their players very well. Hope to see lots of continued success.
Good on you TB I really hope WCS doesn't stop these awesome little individual tournaments. Also gives an incentive for pros to play on their actually accounts and not smurf all day.
Damn! They're just doing so much for the local community! Keep this up Bains! Hopefully we can grow the American scene into a force to be reckoned with!
I support this 100%. I support the restrictions against non NA/SA residents. I support the use of the GameHeart UI. I love the free stream and I can't wait to see my favorite NA players play!
I will probably watch this tournament in it totality.
On April 24 2013 19:20 StarVe wrote: This is great, hope a lot of people tune in. Props for doing something for the NA scene, and because you got TB who pulls huge viewer numbers to cast, it might just work.
On April 24 2013 19:19 Darkhoarse wrote: Is Demuslim included? I do not know if he is a permanent resident of the US. Although, Polt should clean house seeing as he lives in Texas now. But he only really practices on Korean ladder so he's going to have to put in some work on NA to get top 16.
Neither Polt nor Demuslim can compete, they don't have a green card nor do they have citizenship.
Demuslim can't catch a break , can he :-(
Nice job TB and Genna, will be interesting to follow for sure.
Can you imagine if Demuslim wakes up this morning, sees this event and jumps on twitter to say: "I have a green card! Where's your god now?"
On April 24 2013 19:20 StarVe wrote: This is great, hope a lot of people tune in. Props for doing something for the NA scene, and because you got TB who pulls huge viewer numbers to cast, it might just work.
On April 24 2013 19:19 Darkhoarse wrote: Is Demuslim included? I do not know if he is a permanent resident of the US. Although, Polt should clean house seeing as he lives in Texas now. But he only really practices on Korean ladder so he's going to have to put in some work on NA to get top 16.
Neither Polt nor Demuslim can compete, they don't have a green card nor do they have citizenship.
Demuslim can't catch a break , can he :-(
Nice job TB and Genna, will be interesting to follow for sure.
Can you imagine if Demuslim wakes up this morning, sees this event and jumps on twitter to say: "I have a green card! Where's your god now?"
I wish. Sadly, he said himself (few weeks ago) that he is working on a working visa, so i don't think thats enough.
I must say though, i don't have that good grasp on how Visas and Green cards work in US.
On April 24 2013 18:22 Intricacy wrote: Hey guys! Thanks so much for the initial wave of support. This idea just sort of came on while I was watching my guys play in WCS qualifiers. I'm American, so my heart was breaking seeing so many spots for an NA event go to non-NA players. Not to take anything away from how awesome those players are, but I really want to infuse our region's ladder with some much needed enthusiasm.
To clarify a point some of you are bringing up : Eligibility is dependent on the player having either citizenship or a permanent residency card (green card or equivalent) for any North America or South America country.
Thanks for this.
This is what people wanted from localized regional tournaments, something that allowed players from that region to play in. Excluding players like Polt and Demuslim is unfortunate but had to be done. The permanent residency/ citizenship requirement is important as it stops the WCS effect of players moving to a region to play in the tournament, limiting it to the local talent. Plus the player interviews gives background on the players.
It's awesome/great and kinda sad at the same time, great because it's an all NA tournament and that we will find out who the best NA player is, sad because it's the only NA tournament and what WCS NA should have been.
Great work by TB and his crew for taking this initiative.
On April 24 2013 19:20 StarVe wrote: This is great, hope a lot of people tune in. Props for doing something for the NA scene, and because you got TB who pulls huge viewer numbers to cast, it might just work.
On April 24 2013 19:19 Darkhoarse wrote: Is Demuslim included? I do not know if he is a permanent resident of the US. Although, Polt should clean house seeing as he lives in Texas now. But he only really practices on Korean ladder so he's going to have to put in some work on NA to get top 16.
Neither Polt nor Demuslim can compete, they don't have a green card nor do they have citizenship.
Demuslim can't catch a break , can he :-(
Nice job TB and Genna, will be interesting to follow for sure.
Can you imagine if Demuslim wakes up this morning, sees this event and jumps on twitter to say: "I have a green card! Where's your god now?"
I wish. Sadly, he said himself (few weeks ago) that he is working on a working visa, so i don't think thats enough.
I must say though, i don't have that good grasp on how Visas and Green cards work in US.
There are whole law firms that specialize in the process and its all they do. It sucks on levels that most people cannot even understand. I never went into the field because I knew what a pain it can be.
He has to have a work visa if he is employed by EG(though they could classify him as something stupid weird) and make money while in the states. I know there are "Long Term Work Visa" out there and maybe that would be sufficient for the Baines to consider him a resident.
But in the end, it is up to them. The spirit of the rule is for NA residents to be able to compete, but it is up to them to determine what a long term resident is.
On April 24 2013 21:02 Vertitto wrote: do you get wcs points for this league ?
Genna said on Reddit she is reaching out to Blizzard about points
There should´nt be points IMHO in a region-locked tourney. And if there are points, the same should be given to EPS Germany, EPS Poland, EPS Spain, E-sport SM, Francophone Championship and so on. everything else would be pretty unfair.
On April 24 2013 21:02 Vertitto wrote: do you get wcs points for this league ?
Genna said on Reddit she is reaching out to Blizzard about points
There should´nt be points IMHO in a region-locked tourney. And if there are points, the same should be given to EPS Germany, EPS Poland, EPS Spain, E-sport SM, Francophone Championship and so on. everything else would be pretty unfair.
While you have a point, keep in mind the amount of points awarded is easily regulated, in that they could just give out a very small, but still somewhat significant amount. Also, it's a bit of an exaggeration on your part to compare a tournament that allows players from *two continents* to a tournament that only allows the citizens of one country.
All in all, I'm looking forward to it and I have no doubt it will be really well put together; it goes without saying it will be infinitely better than what MLG did last weekend.
I look forward to this, and hope the rest of us who weren't happy with WCS NA will give it the same chance we gave WCS. Show your support, people. Lets make this a rousing success from a spectator point of view as well
Sick, sick idea. Really excited for this. It's been a while since I regularly followed a tournament other than GSL. But since this is a NA-only event AND viewers can contribute via tipjar, I'm definitely going to be watching this. I also really like the fact that you qualify by ladder rank, and I really hope that remains the qualifying method. That would make it even more focused on the NA scene, as you would have to be actively playing here.
On April 24 2013 22:14 Grettin wrote: I wish. Sadly, he said himself (few weeks ago) that he is working on a working visa, so i don't think thats enough.
I must say though, i don't have that good grasp on how Visas and Green cards work in US.
You have to be on a work visa in the US for at least 5 years to even apply for a Green Card in most cases, and then it is another 1-2 year wait of paperwork, interviews, etc.
I for one hope that Demuslim and Polt do not qualify. They are foreigners and I believe Mrs. Bain has wanted to set this up as a tourney for North Americans. By the way... go Canada! :p
On April 24 2013 21:02 Vertitto wrote: do you get wcs points for this league ?
Genna said on Reddit she is reaching out to Blizzard about points
There should´nt be points IMHO in a region-locked tourney. And if there are points, the same should be given to EPS Germany, EPS Poland, EPS Spain, E-sport SM, Francophone Championship and so on. everything else would be pretty unfair.
While you have a point, keep in mind the amount of points awarded is easily regulated, in that they could just give out a very small, but still somewhat significant amount. Also, it's a bit of an exaggeration on your part to compare a tournament that allows players from *two continents* to a tournament that only allows the citizens of one country.
All in all, I'm looking forward to it and I have no doubt it will be really well put together; it goes without saying it will be infinitely better than what MLG did last weekend.
It makes no sense to give out WCS points to a restricted entry tournament...how would it be fair to the Korean players in WCS NA who have no chance to earn this "small, but somewhat significant" points as you've said.
Will definitely watch! Awesome tournament incoming by the looks of it. I also love that there won't be some subjective crap about the invitees. Let the best players join, not those who were popular years ago but can't play at a competitive level anymore.
edit: Demuslim and Polt should definitely be allowed in this tournament as they are living in America and considered by many as local heros who contribute to our scene. I know I'd love to see them compete in this!
On April 24 2013 17:47 KawaiiRice wrote: noooooooo i dont ladder on NA / o \ n000 00000 00000 o0000 + Show Spoiler +
n0000000
You better start! We need a Washington champion!!
Unfortunately the season has been locked . I dropped out of gm because of bonus pool smurfing for WCS. Luckily I got into gm a day or two ago but I'm low gm. It'll be awhileeeeeee to get to top 16 lol xD
On April 24 2013 17:36 Pandemona wrote: Finally. DeMuslim gets to show he is the best NA player Oh and win a tournament for first time in a while :D
Oh, thanks for making this TB
Polt.
Oh fuck ;_; But he shouldn't count ((((( rofl
Actually if you read the fine print, then neither Demuslim or Polt should be allowed to play. Neither are Permanent Residents or Citizens in the legal sense.
Permanent residence can be established quite easily by Demuslim methinks...Polt OTOH, probably not.
On April 24 2013 17:36 Pandemona wrote: Finally. DeMuslim gets to show he is the best NA player Oh and win a tournament for first time in a while :D
Oh, thanks for making this TB
Polt.
Oh fuck ;_; But he shouldn't count ((((( rofl
Actually if you read the fine print, then neither Demuslim or Polt should be allowed to play. Neither are Permanent Residents or Citizens in the legal sense.
Permanent residence can be established quite easily by Demuslim methinks...Polt OTOH, probably not.
That is going to be the argument for this entire thread: what does “Permanent residence” mean? Is it based on intent of the individual or legal status within the country? There are strong arguments on either side. It is sort of the like the class “what is a dwelling” argument that everyone does in law school.
On April 24 2013 21:02 Vertitto wrote: do you get wcs points for this league ?
Genna said on Reddit she is reaching out to Blizzard about points
There should´nt be points IMHO in a region-locked tourney. And if there are points, the same should be given to EPS Germany, EPS Poland, EPS Spain, E-sport SM, Francophone Championship and so on. everything else would be pretty unfair.
While you have a point, keep in mind the amount of points awarded is easily regulated, in that they could just give out a very small, but still somewhat significant amount. Also, it's a bit of an exaggeration on your part to compare a tournament that allows players from *two continents* to a tournament that only allows the citizens of one country.
All in all, I'm looking forward to it and I have no doubt it will be really well put together; it goes without saying it will be infinitely better than what MLG did last weekend.
It makes no sense to give out WCS points to a restricted entry tournament...how would it be fair to the Korean players in WCS NA who have no chance to earn this "small, but somewhat significant" points as you've said.
But there will be other tournaments as well, where they very much will have the chance to win an equal or greater amount of points.
Will be fun to finally see an ACTUAL foreign tournament, and see how the players match up vs eachother.
have never been the biggest fan of TB, but this is AWSOME. especially since he has no problem locking out members of his own team for his own tournament, shows true grit IMO.
Am excited to see what happens with this. Really think Demuslim might be the favorite, he showed excellent games in WCS, even took down matches vs Koreans, and was only eliminated after 3 cheeses in a row from Oz.
On April 24 2013 17:36 Pandemona wrote: Finally. DeMuslim gets to show he is the best NA player Oh and win a tournament for first time in a while :D
Oh, thanks for making this TB
Polt.
Oh fuck ;_; But he shouldn't count ((((( rofl
Actually if you read the fine print, then neither Demuslim or Polt should be allowed to play. Neither are Permanent Residents or Citizens in the legal sense.
Permanent residence can be established quite easily by Demuslim methinks...Polt OTOH, probably not.
That is going to be the argument for this entire thread: what does “Permanent residence” mean? Is it based on intent of the individual or legal status within the country? There are strong arguments on either side. It is sort of the like the class “what is a dwelling” argument that everyone does in law school.
Genna stated herself the requirement is based on citizenship and permanent residence. The only way to obtain permanent residence in these United States if you're not a natural born citizen, is via Green card. Not much to argue about. Work visas are temporary residence cards.
On April 24 2013 17:36 Pandemona wrote: Finally. DeMuslim gets to show he is the best NA player Oh and win a tournament for first time in a while :D
Oh, thanks for making this TB
Polt.
Oh fuck ;_; But he shouldn't count ((((( rofl
Actually if you read the fine print, then neither Demuslim or Polt should be allowed to play. Neither are Permanent Residents or Citizens in the legal sense.
Permanent residence can be established quite easily by Demuslim methinks...Polt OTOH, probably not.
That is going to be the argument for this entire thread: what does “Permanent residence” mean? Is it based on intent of the individual or legal status within the country? There are strong arguments on either side. It is sort of the like the class “what is a dwelling” argument that everyone does in law school.
Genna stated herself the requirement is based on citizenship and permanent residence. The only way to obtain permanent residence in these United States if you're not a natural born citizen, is via Green card. Not much to argue about. Work visas are temporary residence cards.
You are 100% correct if they take the legal definition of “Permanent residence”. That is why I said it is going to come down to if they used the legal definition or if they use intent of the player. It is a semantics argument on how strictly they wish to define what they consider “Permanent residence” to be.
On April 24 2013 21:04 scii wrote: Sounds like an amazing tournament! Will give it a watch!
Really starting to look like Demuslim would be better off out side of America. Although he has fostered one of the largest fan bases (more people watching Demuslim than MLG the last few days with 12k veiwers each day/night) and is one of the best foreign Terran's, he has been kinda screwed by every tournament so far in America. (hots)
Haha that point is so good ^ _ ^ I wonder where Demuslim would be had he stayed in europe, with regular Dremhacks, IEM's etc. to attend. Not to forget the wcs eu seed that he would have had :S Props to him though, i would be in such a negative mood with all this going around, be he seems happier than ever
Yeah me too, but I guess it's nice having all those people tune in to watch him be him and get paid, and do something he loves. Must be a buzz.
I guess these restrictions are the only way to make the competition 'No Koreans allowed'. I would think that a big team like Evil Geniuses need Demulism to be in more competitions other than the challenger league though. (if he qualifies).
Big props to Genna for organizing this. Unfortunately, I doubt DeMusliM will be able to play in this, I don't believe he is a permanent resident. Seems he is falling through the cracks everywhere...
On April 24 2013 17:36 Pandemona wrote: Finally. DeMuslim gets to show he is the best NA player Oh and win a tournament for first time in a while :D
Oh, thanks for making this TB
Polt.
Oh fuck ;_; But he shouldn't count ((((( rofl
Actually if you read the fine print, then neither Demuslim or Polt should be allowed to play. Neither are Permanent Residents or Citizens in the legal sense.
Permanent residence can be established quite easily by Demuslim methinks...Polt OTOH, probably not.
That is going to be the argument for this entire thread: what does “Permanent residence” mean? Is it based on intent of the individual or legal status within the country? There are strong arguments on either side. It is sort of the like the class “what is a dwelling” argument that everyone does in law school.
Genna stated herself the requirement is based on citizenship and permanent residence. The only way to obtain permanent residence in these United States if you're not a natural born citizen, is via Green card. Not much to argue about. Work visas are temporary residence cards.
You are 100% correct if they take the legal definition of “Permanent residence”. That is why I said it is going to come down to if they used the legal definition or if they use intent of the player. It is a semantics argument on how strictly they wish to define what they consider “Permanent residence” to be.
Genna said Green card or equivalent, so definition of permanent resident is pretty clear.
Sorry Polt and Demuslim
Edit: adding Genna's quote
On April 24 2013 18:22 Intricacy wrote: Hey guys! Thanks so much for the initial wave of support. This idea just sort of came on while I was watching my guys play in WCS qualifiers. I'm American, so my heart was breaking seeing so many spots for an NA event go to non-NA players. Not to take anything away from how awesome those players are, but I really want to infuse our region's ladder with some much needed enthusiasm.
To clarify a point some of you are bringing up : Eligibility is dependent on the player having either citizenship or a permanent residency card (green card or equivalent) for any North America or South America country.
On April 24 2013 17:36 Pandemona wrote: Finally. DeMuslim gets to show he is the best NA player Oh and win a tournament for first time in a while :D
Oh, thanks for making this TB
Polt.
Oh fuck ;_; But he shouldn't count ((((( rofl
Actually if you read the fine print, then neither Demuslim or Polt should be allowed to play. Neither are Permanent Residents or Citizens in the legal sense.
Permanent residence can be established quite easily by Demuslim methinks...Polt OTOH, probably not.
That is going to be the argument for this entire thread: what does “Permanent residence” mean? Is it based on intent of the individual or legal status within the country? There are strong arguments on either side. It is sort of the like the class “what is a dwelling” argument that everyone does in law school.
Genna stated herself the requirement is based on citizenship and permanent residence. The only way to obtain permanent residence in these United States if you're not a natural born citizen, is via Green card. Not much to argue about. Work visas are temporary residence cards.
You are 100% correct if they take the legal definition of “Permanent residence”. That is why I said it is going to come down to if they used the legal definition or if they use intent of the player. It is a semantics argument on how strictly they wish to define what they consider “Permanent residence” to be.
Genna said Green card or equivalent, so definition of permanent resident is pretty clear.
Sorry Polt and Demuslim
I hope it isn't that cut and dry. At one point TB didn't have a green card when he lived here with Genna, but no one would argue that he was anything but a permanent resident. I would hope they would count players that have visa's that allow paths to citizenship. They are very hard and expensive to obtain and I think the act of getting one would be enough to qualify the player for "permanent resident".
That is just my opinion. I like rules that aren't cut and dry and allow some personal judgment in situations like this. I would hate to see a player unable to compete because they are on a refuge visa or something that was beyond their control.
On April 25 2013 00:01 CursedFeanor wrote: Will definitely watch! Awesome tournament incoming by the looks of it. I also love that there won't be some subjective crap about the invitees. Let the best players join, not those who were popular years ago but can't play at a competitive level anymore.
edit: Demuslim and Polt should definitely be allowed in this tournament as they are living in America and considered by many as local heros who contribute to our scene. I know I'd love to see them compete in this!
Well I dont think either will be allowed into the tournament, neither qualify as permanent residents. Polt would dominate so hard to the point of it being a foregone conclusion anyway.The whole point of it is to foster american talent while encouraging competition on ladder and give pros in America something to aim for.
On April 24 2013 17:36 Pandemona wrote: Finally. DeMuslim gets to show he is the best NA player Oh and win a tournament for first time in a while :D
Oh, thanks for making this TB
Polt.
Oh fuck ;_; But he shouldn't count ((((( rofl
Actually if you read the fine print, then neither Demuslim or Polt should be allowed to play. Neither are Permanent Residents or Citizens in the legal sense.
Permanent residence can be established quite easily by Demuslim methinks...Polt OTOH, probably not.
That is going to be the argument for this entire thread: what does “Permanent residence” mean? Is it based on intent of the individual or legal status within the country? There are strong arguments on either side. It is sort of the like the class “what is a dwelling” argument that everyone does in law school.
Genna stated herself the requirement is based on citizenship and permanent residence. The only way to obtain permanent residence in these United States if you're not a natural born citizen, is via Green card. Not much to argue about. Work visas are temporary residence cards.
You are 100% correct if they take the legal definition of “Permanent residence”. That is why I said it is going to come down to if they used the legal definition or if they use intent of the player. It is a semantics argument on how strictly they wish to define what they consider “Permanent residence” to be.
Genna said Green card or equivalent, so definition of permanent resident is pretty clear.
Sorry Polt and Demuslim
I hope it isn't that cut and dry. At one point TB didn't have a green card when he lived here with Genna, but no one would argue that he was anything but a permanent resident. I would hope they would count players that have visa's that allow paths to citizenship. They are very hard and expensive to obtain and I think the act of getting one would be enough to qualify the player for "permanent resident".
That is just my opinion. I like rules that aren't cut and dry and allow some personal judgment in situations like this. I would hate to see a player unable to compete because they are on a refuge visa or something that was beyond their control.
I imagine few people know the horrors of the US immigration process than TB and Genna. Getting a green card is incredibly difficult, time consuming and expensive. It's basically unattainable for most players out there. It sucks for players like demuslim who invested a lot in a work visa but won't be able to participate, but it is a single tournament and he will get other chances.
Thank you, Genna! Lots of people talk about wanting to strengthen and support the NA scene, so it's fantastic to see a community figure actually step forward and take a stab at it. Major props.
Also, cleverly done announcing it while there's still a lot of anger bubbling about WCS NA, and also to make the $10k prize pool to avoid the ban on broadcasting during WCS. Hopefully these things will help the tourney gain traction.
On April 24 2013 17:36 Pandemona wrote: Finally. DeMuslim gets to show he is the best NA player Oh and win a tournament for first time in a while :D
Oh, thanks for making this TB
Polt.
Oh fuck ;_; But he shouldn't count ((((( rofl
Actually if you read the fine print, then neither Demuslim or Polt should be allowed to play. Neither are Permanent Residents or Citizens in the legal sense.
Permanent residence can be established quite easily by Demuslim methinks...Polt OTOH, probably not.
That is going to be the argument for this entire thread: what does “Permanent residence” mean? Is it based on intent of the individual or legal status within the country? There are strong arguments on either side. It is sort of the like the class “what is a dwelling” argument that everyone does in law school.
Genna stated herself the requirement is based on citizenship and permanent residence. The only way to obtain permanent residence in these United States if you're not a natural born citizen, is via Green card. Not much to argue about. Work visas are temporary residence cards.
You are 100% correct if they take the legal definition of “Permanent residence”. That is why I said it is going to come down to if they used the legal definition or if they use intent of the player. It is a semantics argument on how strictly they wish to define what they consider “Permanent residence” to be.
I think for this first tournament they should just stick to the legal definition so everyone is on the same page. It feels like this tournament was thought up pretty quickly after WCS NA qualifiers, so the minimum amount of administrative fuss would be ideal, here. Especially with the troubles from WCS NA fresh on everyone's minds.
On April 25 2013 01:01 ROOTKane wrote: i hope demuslim is able to play in this. i want to meet him in the finals and beat him (trash talk encouraged, right!!?) :D
Don't worry, you're so good he's not even allowed to play!
TB know what to do when something is needed. Making a fair korean team when korean teams had problems.
Now making a NA tournament when the NA scene is a bit shaken. Nice.
Although, it's gonna be weird if they allow Polt to play. But if they don't take Polt for non permanent residence reason,; they can't take DemusliM either...
We had to lay down the law at some point. Either you let all "resident" foreigners in or you let none of them in. You can't let in Demuslim without letting in Polt for example. What if Violet moved back to NA for a bit, do we let him in? Even someone like Succeed who is a Swede who just moved to the US for a while, at the end of the day these players are not American talent. It's been rough for Demuslim, to the point where I felt like I had to apologize to him before this tournament was even announced. It may be for Season 2 that we allow those on long-term work or student visas into the event, but for Season 1 we want an all-American (continent...) event.
Also Major is able to qualify, he is a citizen of a continental American country. He will however have to play on the SCA schedule, since all games are played live and will have to play on the US server for all matches.
On April 25 2013 01:16 TotalBiscuit wrote: We had to lay down the law at some point. Either you let all "resident" foreigners in or you let none of them in. You can't let in Demuslim without letting in Polt for example. What if Violet moved back to NA for a bit, do we let him in? Even someone like Succeed who is a Swede who just moved to the US for a while, at the end of the day these players are not American talent. It's been rough for Demuslim, to the point where I felt like I had to apologize to him before this tournament was even announced. It may be for Season 2 that we allow those on long-term work or student visas into the event, but for Season 1 we want an all-American (continent...) event.
Also Major is able to qualify, he is a citizen of a continental American country. He will however have to play on the SCA schedule, since all games are played live and will have to play on the US server for all matches.
As always TB, you are a stand up guy and thought this through. Hopefully you can run more events like this one open up the gates a bit. Looking forward to it.
On April 25 2013 01:16 TotalBiscuit wrote: We had to lay down the law at some point. Either you let all "resident" foreigners in or you let none of them in. You can't let in Demuslim without letting in Polt for example. What if Violet moved back to NA for a bit, do we let him in? Even someone like Succeed who is a Swede who just moved to the US for a while, at the end of the day these players are not American talent. It's been rough for Demuslim, to the point where I felt like I had to apologize to him before this tournament was even announced. It may be for Season 2 that we allow those on long-term work or student visas into the event, but for Season 1 we want an all-American (continent...) event.
Also Major is able to qualify, he is a citizen of a continental American country. He will however have to play on the SCA schedule, since all games are played live and will have to play on the US server for all matches.
<3 This is really awesome and I hope it works out well! Thank you to genna as well!
On April 25 2013 01:16 TotalBiscuit wrote: We had to lay down the law at some point. Either you let all "resident" foreigners in or you let none of them in. You can't let in Demuslim without letting in Polt for example. What if Violet moved back to NA for a bit, do we let him in? Even someone like Succeed who is a Swede who just moved to the US for a while, at the end of the day these players are not American talent. It's been rough for Demuslim, to the point where I felt like I had to apologize to him before this tournament was even announced. It may be for Season 2 that we allow those on long-term work or student visas into the event, but for Season 1 we want an all-American (continent...) event.
Also Major is able to qualify, he is a citizen of a continental American country. He will however have to play on the SCA schedule, since all games are played live and will have to play on the US server for all matches.
On April 25 2013 01:16 TotalBiscuit wrote: We had to lay down the law at some point. Either you let all "resident" foreigners in or you let none of them in. You can't let in Demuslim without letting in Polt for example. What if Violet moved back to NA for a bit, do we let him in? Even someone like Succeed who is a Swede who just moved to the US for a while, at the end of the day these players are not American talent. It's been rough for Demuslim, to the point where I felt like I had to apologize to him before this tournament was even announced. It may be for Season 2 that we allow those on long-term work or student visas into the event, but for Season 1 we want an all-American (continent...) event.
Also Major is able to qualify, he is a citizen of a continental American country. He will however have to play on the SCA schedule, since all games are played live and will have to play on the US server for all matches.
Great work Biscuit! I hope you invite Incontrol to cast with you (i wouldn't mind if that was for the whole season). Absolutely the most pleasant casting pair of last MLG and i wish it would occur more often.
On April 25 2013 01:16 TotalBiscuit wrote: We had to lay down the law at some point. Either you let all "resident" foreigners in or you let none of them in. You can't let in Demuslim without letting in Polt for example. What if Violet moved back to NA for a bit, do we let him in? Even someone like Succeed who is a Swede who just moved to the US for a while, at the end of the day these players are not American talent. It's been rough for Demuslim, to the point where I felt like I had to apologize to him before this tournament was even announced. It may be for Season 2 that we allow those on long-term work or student visas into the event, but for Season 1 we want an all-American (continent...) event.
Also Major is able to qualify, he is a citizen of a continental American country. He will however have to play on the SCA schedule, since all games are played live and will have to play on the US server for all matches.
Great work Biscuit! I hope you invite Incontrol to cast with you (i wouldn't mind if that was for the whole season). Absolutely the most pleasant casting pair of last MLG and i wish it would occur more often.
In the spirit of the tournament I'd like a caster like Nathanias to be brought up instead.
Brilliant format, just have to worry about the hackers and stuff, but I think they will get it covered. Just awesome. A reason to ladder, as well as a huge prize pool. Freaking good job TB!
Guy laughs at WCS NA. Team proceeds to have almost all of its players qualify. Then TB and Genna decide to make a NA tournament for NA players: one that doesn't require quotation marks around it. Guy is slapping every Blizzard/MLG employee in the face by owning their format, yet still making the tournament that MLG/Blizzard was too pansy to do. Have to respect that. I hope it works out for all parties involved. All I needed to see to know it wasn't a Blizzard tournament was to notice the lack of BS lines. Already a fan.
On April 24 2013 17:36 Pandemona wrote: Finally. DeMuslim gets to show he is the best NA player Oh and win a tournament for first time in a while :D
Oh, thanks for making this TB
Polt.
Oh fuck ;_; But he shouldn't count ((((( rofl
Actually if you read the fine print, then neither Demuslim or Polt should be allowed to play. Neither are Permanent Residents or Citizens in the legal sense.
Then it must be Stephano. USA USA USA Stephano USA U.S.A.!!!!
I feel like there is more than 16 people in NA that could win this, so to say that who wins this is the best player in NA is just not true. But I'm really looking forward to watching this.
On April 25 2013 01:49 playa wrote: Guy laughs at WCS NA. Team proceeds to have almost all of its players qualify. Then TB and Genna decide to make a NA tournament for NA players: one that doesn't require quotation marks around it. Guy is slapping every Blizzard/MLG employee in the face by owning their format, yet still making the tournament that MLG/Blizzard was too pansy to do. Have to respect that. I hope it works out for all parties involved. All I needed to see to know it wasn't a Blizzard tournament was to notice the lack of BS lines. Already a fan.
Just because NA players are not good enough to qualify in to WCS doesn't make the format bad. It just makes the players bad.
Very much so needed right now in the North American scene! I'm so excited that TB is setting this up I wish there was some way that I could get involved to help out
On April 25 2013 01:16 TotalBiscuit wrote: We had to lay down the law at some point. Either you let all "resident" foreigners in or you let none of them in. You can't let in Demuslim without letting in Polt for example. What if Violet moved back to NA for a bit, do we let him in? Even someone like Succeed who is a Swede who just moved to the US for a while, at the end of the day these players are not American talent. It's been rough for Demuslim, to the point where I felt like I had to apologize to him before this tournament was even announced. It may be for Season 2 that we allow those on long-term work or student visas into the event, but for Season 1 we want an all-American (continent...) event.
Also Major is able to qualify, he is a citizen of a continental American country. He will however have to play on the SCA schedule, since all games are played live and will have to play on the US server for all matches.
We had to lay down the law at some point. Either you let all "resident" foreigners in or you let none of them in. You can't let in Demuslim without letting in Polt for example. What if Violet moved back to NA for a bit, do we let him in? Even someone like Succeed who is a Swede who just moved to the US for a while, at the end of the day these players are not American talent. It's been rough for Demuslim, to the point where I felt like I had to apologize to him before this tournament was even announced. It may be for Season 2 that we allow those on long-term work or student visas into the event, but for Season 1 we want an all-American (continent...) event.
Also Major is able to qualify, he is a citizen of a continental American country. He will however have to play on the SCA schedule, since all games are played live and will have to play on the US server for all matches.
Thanks for the clarification TB. =) I'm sure Demuslim understands, and there's plenty of good NA talents out there to be shown.
On April 25 2013 01:49 playa wrote: Guy laughs at WCS NA. Team proceeds to have almost all of its players qualify. Then TB and Genna decide to make a NA tournament for NA players: one that doesn't require quotation marks around it. Guy is slapping every Blizzard/MLG employee in the face by owning their format, yet still making the tournament that MLG/Blizzard was too pansy to do. Have to respect that. I hope it works out for all parties involved. All I needed to see to know it wasn't a Blizzard tournament was to notice the lack of BS lines. Already a fan.
Just because NA players are not good enough to qualify in to WCS doesn't make the format bad. It just makes the players bad.
Did you hear about Japan starting a league? Imagine how beneficial it would be to their scene if all of the best players in the world (Koreans) took all of the spots, which they inevitably would. Everything is relative. The 100th GM on any server is "bad" compared to one of the top players on their respective servers. When one scene has an obvious head start/advantage, I'm pretty sure the solution isn't to tell people to find a way to practice 48 hours a day to make up the gap. O, and by the way, since you suck, relative to the best players in the world, we're not going to give you a shot to make any money. So... pick up a real job, while you're trying to fit in that 48 hours of practice a day.
There's no sensible person that can believe what Blizzard has spewed. There are only people that have built a business through showing Korean games that aren't willing to jeopardize it unless it is forced upon them. Everyone has their own agendas/goals. If you followed the MLG tournament, it probably shouldn't be too hard to figure out exactly how much MLG cares about players.
Don't worry about demuslim guys. Have you seen his stream numbers lately? He's making bank! I see this more as a tourney for players on less established teams and income to earn some money.
A quick glance at the NA ladder shows Idra to be the only exception. Sure you got major, suppy and some root guys, but I doubt very much if those people earn much salary at all. This tourney is for the hellokitty and jonsnows of the scene. At least that's how I see. Season 2 will probably change things depending on how they decide to do qualifiers then.
On April 25 2013 01:54 Let it Raine wrote: Announce this earlier so people who choose not to ladder on a bad server can participate
I don't think we want you in our event with that attitude anyway.
What issue do you take with his attitude, if you don't mind me asking? Is it the fact that he's looking a gift horse in the mouth?
You really don't see an issue with his attitude? No issue with him calling it a bad ladder? Whether that statement is true or not, it's best not to start off insulting the ladder you're supposed to play on to qualify.
One comment: It is such short notice and the ladder stipulation for qualifying means some people have zero chance of getting there because they aren't GM (through lack of play, they otherwise would easily be) or they play on Korea etc. Perhaps it would have been better to make it top say 14 ladder players and have 2 qualifying spots. Then do an qualifier for eligible players only for the last 2 spots for anyone who is 1000+ point masters on any other server. Only problem would be policing the qualifier.
Meh still a great idea. The standard of this tournament might not be the absolute highest but the snobbery about liking GSL standard play only needs to be broken with tournaments like this. Look at WCS Europe!
I love you TotalBiscuit but its also time to understand Genna Bain's passion and she was an equal and driving force for starting Axiom and equal force perhaps greater force for designing this tournament. Genna Bain may have the secret greatest passion for SC2 on the planet!
Not that I am taking credit but I feel like TotalBiscuit read my long posts about this and made a tournament just for me I love this so much, especially with the "we want to bring out player interviews, bits, encourage trash talk (respectfully) and stuff" this is really what the scene needed.
OMG you guys can you please stop finding ways to weasel in Koreans? "Well, you know that Polt lives in Texas" its like "you know if Nestea was flown to a hotel in Texas and ate BBQ ribs he deserves to be in this" its for NATIVES.
Please resist the pressure to cave in to the Korean propaganda machine TB and Genna.
On April 25 2013 03:21 _SpiRaL_ wrote: This is so great that the Bain's are doing this!
One comment: It is such short notice and the ladder stipulation for qualifying means some people have zero chance of getting there because they aren't GM (through lack of play, they otherwise would easily be) or they play on Korea etc. Perhaps it would have been better to make it top say 14 ladder players and have 2 qualifying spots. Then do an qualifier for eligible players only for the last 2 spots for anyone who is 1000+ point masters on any other server. Only problem would be policing the qualifier.
Meh still a great idea. The standard of this tournament might not be the absolute highest but the snobbery about liking GSL standard play only needs to be broken with tournaments like this. Look at WCS Europe!
I personally have had quite enough of qualifiers over the last few weeks and am not confident we could correctly organize and police such a thing. As a result we believe GM qualification allows for a system that also provides legitimacy to the ladder and encourages competition.
This tournament is a test-case. We fully intend to create a larger tournament with a longer lead in-time which would allow those stuck in Masters to make their way up to GM over a longer qualification period. However this was impossible in the time-frame provided.
On April 25 2013 02:57 AnachronisticAnarchy wrote:
On April 25 2013 02:14 TotalBiscuit wrote:
On April 25 2013 01:54 Let it Raine wrote: Announce this earlier so people who choose not to ladder on a bad server can participate
I don't think we want you in our event with that attitude anyway.
What issue do you take with his attitude, if you don't mind me asking? Is it the fact that he's looking a gift horse in the mouth?
You really don't see an issue with his attitude? No issue with him calling it a bad ladder? Whether that statement is true or not, it's best not to start off insulting the ladder you're supposed to play on to qualify.
I don't take an issue with it because he's right. I'm not sure how it compares to the EU ladder, but the Korean ladder is flat out better. As a result, some top NA players elect to practice on the KR ladder. An earlier announcement would allow those practicing on the KR ladder to switch to the NA ladder and hopefully perform well enough to qualify for the tournament. This would be good for the viewers and the NA ladder.
If the tone of his post is the issue, then I may not be the best person to make a judgement call in that regard. My lack of tact is pretty (in)famous among my friends.
On April 25 2013 03:35 Vindexus wrote: Will there be a tip jar like the SHOUTcraft Invitationals?
I was just rereading the post mortem from #4 the other day and it was really interesting.
There will be a tip jar. It was part of the announcement.
an all AM tournament to showcase the talent the americas have to offer.
while i like the fact there's an all AM tourny now, calling it a chance to showcase the talent of americans is a bit silly, WCS NA offers that too, people just complain that they arent talented enough to compete in it.
Hope this goes well so that this tournament can be held multiple times and grow larger to help out the NA scene.
Only thing I would like changed is a qualifier for a few spots, but I understand why tb and Genna would not even want to try doing one with the MLG mess
an all AM tournament to showcase the talent the americas have to offer.
while i like the fact there's an all AM tourny now, calling it a chance to showcase the talent of americans is a bit silly, WCS NA offers that too, people just complain that they arent talented enough to compete in it.
Well unless you want an all-Korean SC2 scene in the next couple of years, you'd best support the notion that sports competition is supposed to be done at multiple level, just like very other sport on the planet.
an all AM tournament to showcase the talent the americas have to offer.
while i like the fact there's an all AM tourny now, calling it a chance to showcase the talent of americans is a bit silly, WCS NA offers that too, people just complain that they arent talented enough to compete in it.
How does WCS NA offer that when many of the competitors are not NA or SA?
an all AM tournament to showcase the talent the americas have to offer.
while i like the fact there's an all AM tourny now, calling it a chance to showcase the talent of americans is a bit silly, WCS NA offers that too, people just complain that they arent talented enough to compete in it.
Well unless you want an all-Korean SC2 scene in the next couple of years, you'd best support the notion that sports competition is supposed to be done at multiple level, just like very other sport on the planet.
But the TL community only understands skill levels in SC2 based on Code S level Korean players and those able to beat them. The idea that events can be run that are not based around these levels of skill simply cannot be processed by many. How can someone even us the word “talent” if it isn't in relation to a GSL or Kespa player? You are asking people to fundamentally alter their basic understanding of how SC2 works.
what are the specifics on how proof of residency is established in tournament rules? what legal documents should be submitted? will utility bills work? financial statements? police records? will these be made public to provide transparency and proof that the participants are 100% homegrown american?
i do appreciate that it is being called what it is though: protectionism.
On April 25 2013 05:43 itsjustatank wrote: what are the specifics on how proof of residency is established in tournament rules? what legal documents should be submitted? will utility bills work? financial statements? police records? will these be made public to provide transparency and proof that the participants are 100% homegrown american?
i do appreciate that it is being called what it is though: protectionism.
Lol at your ridiculous over-reaction. Gee, maybe your social security card or drivers license? Not too tricky to prove who you actually are.
Dunno whether I like taking the ladder rank that serious. Would've rather appreciated a tournament involving all GM players (alot of whom are smurfs and/or do not live in America, so shouldn't have been that many players).
Anyways, if this is broadcasted during NA prime time - which makes the most sense - then I probably won't be able to catch it, but I'll definitely follow the results diligently.
On April 25 2013 05:43 itsjustatank wrote: what are the specifics on how proof of residency is established in tournament rules? what legal documents should be submitted? will utility bills work? financial statements? police records? will these be made public to provide transparency and proof that the participants are 100% homegrown american?
i do appreciate that it is being called what it is though: protectionism.
Lol at your ridiculous over-reaction. Gee, maybe your social security card or drivers license? Not too tricky to prove who you actually are.
I'm not worried about proof of residency or even hacking/cheating really but I am curious if anything will be required to establish absolute proof - like an over-the-player-shoulder webcam setup. I could guess a few downsides but there could also be upsides like hearing comments/reactions from the player.
On April 25 2013 05:43 itsjustatank wrote: what are the specifics on how proof of residency is established in tournament rules? what legal documents should be submitted? will utility bills work? financial statements? police records? will these be made public to provide transparency and proof that the participants are 100% homegrown american?
i do appreciate that it is being called what it is though: protectionism.
Lol at your ridiculous over-reaction. Gee, maybe your social security card or drivers license? Not too tricky to prove who you actually are.
They let you write for this site? God.
How about countries that are not the USA? Not all countries have that specific drivers licenses neither do they have social security cards
On April 25 2013 05:43 itsjustatank wrote: what are the specifics on how proof of residency is established in tournament rules? what legal documents should be submitted? will utility bills work? financial statements? police records? will these be made public to provide transparency and proof that the participants are 100% homegrown american?
i do appreciate that it is being called what it is though: protectionism.
Lol at your ridiculous over-reaction. Gee, maybe your social security card or drivers license? Not too tricky to prove who you actually are.
They let you write for this site? God.
How about countries that are not the USA? Not all countries have that specific drivers licenses neither do they have social security cards
On April 25 2013 05:43 itsjustatank wrote: what are the specifics on how proof of residency is established in tournament rules? what legal documents should be submitted? will utility bills work? financial statements? police records? will these be made public to provide transparency and proof that the participants are 100% homegrown american?
i do appreciate that it is being called what it is though: protectionism.
Lol at your ridiculous over-reaction. Gee, maybe your social security card or drivers license? Not too tricky to prove who you actually are.
They let you write for this site? God.
in the united states, social security cards are given only to citizens, and having a driver's license does not necessarily signify that you are a lawful permanent resident. using these as proof to attach internet handles and real names is also tricky.
at any case what I am getting at is you are calling for some serious personally identifiable information from people, and I am hoping that you take great care with it.
On April 25 2013 05:43 itsjustatank wrote: what are the specifics on how proof of residency is established in tournament rules? what legal documents should be submitted? will utility bills work? financial statements? police records? will these be made public to provide transparency and proof that the participants are 100% homegrown american?
i do appreciate that it is being called what it is though: protectionism.
Lol at your ridiculous over-reaction. Gee, maybe your social security card or drivers license? Not too tricky to prove who you actually are.
They let you write for this site? God.
How about countries that are not the USA? Not all countries have that specific drivers licenses neither do they have social security cards
Every country has their equivalent documentation
Yes, but not every country has it easily available. I am not in possession of any type of identification that proves that I am infact a citizen of Sweden. If I needed such a thing I would need to contact our national tax agency. If the police asked I could simply state my personal code number and they could look it up in their database and see it, but for something like this tournament I would need to contact the tax agency.
What I'm trying to say is, if people know exactly what is needed they can go through the proper steps and get the required information should they be in a position that they might be eligable for this tournament.
On April 25 2013 05:43 itsjustatank wrote: what are the specifics on how proof of residency is established in tournament rules? what legal documents should be submitted? will utility bills work? financial statements? police records? will these be made public to provide transparency and proof that the participants are 100% homegrown american?
i do appreciate that it is being called what it is though: protectionism.
Lol at your ridiculous over-reaction. Gee, maybe your social security card or drivers license? Not too tricky to prove who you actually are.
They let you write for this site? God.
How about countries that are not the USA? Not all countries have that specific drivers licenses neither do they have social security cards
Every country has their equivalent documentation
Yes, but not every country has it easily available. I am not in possession of any type of identification that proves that I am infact a citizen of Sweden. If I needed such a thing I would need to contact our national tax agency. If the police asked I could simply state my personal code number and they could look it up in their database and see it, but for something like this tournament I would need to contact the tax agency.
What I'm trying to say is, if people know exactly what is needed they can go through the proper steps and get the required information should they be in a position that they might be eligable for this tournament.
You have no identification of any sorts? Do you never even leave the country?
On April 25 2013 05:43 itsjustatank wrote: what are the specifics on how proof of residency is established in tournament rules? what legal documents should be submitted? will utility bills work? financial statements? police records? will these be made public to provide transparency and proof that the participants are 100% homegrown american?
i do appreciate that it is being called what it is though: protectionism.
Lol at your ridiculous over-reaction. Gee, maybe your social security card or drivers license? Not too tricky to prove who you actually are.
They let you write for this site? God.
How about countries that are not the USA? Not all countries have that specific drivers licenses neither do they have social security cards
Every country has their equivalent documentation
Yes, but not every country has it easily available. I am not in possession of any type of identification that proves that I am infact a citizen of Sweden. If I needed such a thing I would need to contact our national tax agency. If the police asked I could simply state my personal code number and they could look it up in their database and see it, but for something like this tournament I would need to contact the tax agency.
What I'm trying to say is, if people know exactly what is needed they can go through the proper steps and get the required information should they be in a position that they might be eligable for this tournament.
You can get an ID card at your local police office for roughly 300 SEK (40 bucks?). Takes a few days to get it. Problem solved.
Oh the ID card is 400 SEK, but a normal passport is 350.
Can't wait for this Vibe is going to win ez pz. Scarlet is gone, huk is bad, idra raging, the only competition is TTone (trolol) . Vibe you got this brohan.
On April 25 2013 05:43 itsjustatank wrote: what are the specifics on how proof of residency is established in tournament rules? what legal documents should be submitted? will utility bills work? financial statements? police records? will these be made public to provide transparency and proof that the participants are 100% homegrown american?
i do appreciate that it is being called what it is though: protectionism.
Lol at your ridiculous over-reaction. Gee, maybe your social security card or drivers license? Not too tricky to prove who you actually are.
They let you write for this site? God.
in the united states, social security cards are given only to citizens, and having a driver's license does not necessarily signify that you are a lawful permanent resident. using these as proof to attach internet handles and real names is also tricky.
at any case what I am getting at is you are calling for some serious personally identifiable information from people, and I am hoping that you take great care with it.
If people are uncomfortable with giving identifiable information to me then they don't have to apply. You're the one suggesting we release that information which is bonkers fucking ridiculous.
The way of proving you are a permanent US resident is to have a greencard, since you require one in order to be a lawful permanent resident. If you don't have a greencard, you are not a permanent resident.
On April 25 2013 05:43 itsjustatank wrote: what are the specifics on how proof of residency is established in tournament rules? what legal documents should be submitted? will utility bills work? financial statements? police records? will these be made public to provide transparency and proof that the participants are 100% homegrown american?
i do appreciate that it is being called what it is though: protectionism.
Lol at your ridiculous over-reaction. Gee, maybe your social security card or drivers license? Not too tricky to prove who you actually are.
They let you write for this site? God.
in the united states, social security cards are given only to citizens, and having a driver's license does not necessarily signify that you are a lawful permanent resident. using these as proof to attach internet handles and real names is also tricky.
at any case what I am getting at is you are calling for some serious personally identifiable information from people, and I am hoping that you take great care with it.
what? this is just plain wrong, you *can* have a social security card w/o being a citizen.
On April 25 2013 05:43 itsjustatank wrote: what are the specifics on how proof of residency is established in tournament rules? what legal documents should be submitted? will utility bills work? financial statements? police records? will these be made public to provide transparency and proof that the participants are 100% homegrown american?
i do appreciate that it is being called what it is though: protectionism.
Lol at your ridiculous over-reaction. Gee, maybe your social security card or drivers license? Not too tricky to prove who you actually are.
They let you write for this site? God.
in the united states, social security cards are given only to citizens, and having a driver's license does not necessarily signify that you are a lawful permanent resident. using these as proof to attach internet handles and real names is also tricky.
at any case what I am getting at is you are calling for some serious personally identifiable information from people, and I am hoping that you take great care with it.
Hmm.... I had a US social security card longgggg before I became a naturalized citizen. So I'd imagine permanent residents can get them too...or otherwise how did I have one for all those years.
On April 25 2013 05:43 itsjustatank wrote: what are the specifics on how proof of residency is established in tournament rules? what legal documents should be submitted? will utility bills work? financial statements? police records? will these be made public to provide transparency and proof that the participants are 100% homegrown american?
i do appreciate that it is being called what it is though: protectionism.
Lol at your ridiculous over-reaction. Gee, maybe your social security card or drivers license? Not too tricky to prove who you actually are.
They let you write for this site? God.
in the united states, social security cards are given only to citizens, and having a driver's license does not necessarily signify that you are a lawful permanent resident. using these as proof to attach internet handles and real names is also tricky.
at any case what I am getting at is you are calling for some serious personally identifiable information from people, and I am hoping that you take great care with it.
Hmm.... I had a US social security card longgggg before I became a naturalized citizen. So I'd imagine permanent residents can get them too...or otherwise how did I have one for all those years.
People on work visas get them as well. I imagine its more to prove identity than citizenship.
Edit. I mean legal right to work. Don't know why I said identity :p
On April 25 2013 05:43 itsjustatank wrote: what are the specifics on how proof of residency is established in tournament rules? what legal documents should be submitted? will utility bills work? financial statements? police records? will these be made public to provide transparency and proof that the participants are 100% homegrown american?
i do appreciate that it is being called what it is though: protectionism.
Lol at your ridiculous over-reaction. Gee, maybe your social security card or drivers license? Not too tricky to prove who you actually are.
They let you write for this site? God.
in the united states, social security cards are given only to citizens, and having a driver's license does not necessarily signify that you are a lawful permanent resident. using these as proof to attach internet handles and real names is also tricky.
at any case what I am getting at is you are calling for some serious personally identifiable information from people, and I am hoping that you take great care with it.
If people are uncomfortable with giving identifiable information to me then they don't have to apply. You're the one suggesting we release that information which is bonkers fucking ridiculous.
The way of proving you are a permanent US resident is to have a greencard, since you require one in order to be a lawful permanent resident. If you don't have a greencard, you are not a permanent resident.
Why not just call this tournament the Patriot Act Star League? Thanks, Obama!
On April 25 2013 05:43 itsjustatank wrote: what are the specifics on how proof of residency is established in tournament rules? what legal documents should be submitted? will utility bills work? financial statements? police records? will these be made public to provide transparency and proof that the participants are 100% homegrown american?
i do appreciate that it is being called what it is though: protectionism.
Lol at your ridiculous over-reaction. Gee, maybe your social security card or drivers license? Not too tricky to prove who you actually are.
They let you write for this site? God.
in the united states, social security cards are given only to citizens, and having a driver's license does not necessarily signify that you are a lawful permanent resident. using these as proof to attach internet handles and real names is also tricky.
at any case what I am getting at is you are calling for some serious personally identifiable information from people, and I am hoping that you take great care with it.
If people are uncomfortable with giving identifiable information to me then they don't have to apply. You're the one suggesting we release that information which is bonkers fucking ridiculous.
The way of proving you are a permanent US resident is to have a greencard, since you require one in order to be a lawful permanent resident. If you don't have a greencard, you are not a permanent resident.
It was a theoretical question posed because I guarantee you will have people on the internet doubting that participants meet the residency requirements you put out, especially if they are a new name and face. It's good to see from your responses that you wouldn't play willy-nilly with people's information.
On April 25 2013 08:17 Klipsys wrote: TB best businessman in esports. Saw an opportunity and capitalize on it. We need more intelligent people like him
On April 25 2013 05:43 itsjustatank wrote: what are the specifics on how proof of residency is established in tournament rules? what legal documents should be submitted? will utility bills work? financial statements? police records? will these be made public to provide transparency and proof that the participants are 100% homegrown american?
i do appreciate that it is being called what it is though: protectionism.
Lol at your ridiculous over-reaction. Gee, maybe your social security card or drivers license? Not too tricky to prove who you actually are.
They let you write for this site? God.
in the united states, social security cards are given only to citizens, and having a driver's license does not necessarily signify that you are a lawful permanent resident. using these as proof to attach internet handles and real names is also tricky.
at any case what I am getting at is you are calling for some serious personally identifiable information from people, and I am hoping that you take great care with it.
If people are uncomfortable with giving identifiable information to me then they don't have to apply. You're the one suggesting we release that information which is bonkers fucking ridiculous.
The way of proving you are a permanent US resident is to have a greencard, since you require one in order to be a lawful permanent resident. If you don't have a greencard, you are not a permanent resident.
It was a theoretical question posed because I guarantee you will have people on the internet doubting that participants meet the residency requirements you put out, especially if they are a new name and face. It's good to see from your responses that you wouldn't play willy-nilly with people's information.
Why would you even think that he would "play willy-nilly" at all? And since when has TB given a damn about what people on the internet say or think?
On April 25 2013 08:17 Klipsys wrote: TB best businessman in esports. Saw an opportunity and capitalize on it. We need more intelligent people like him
Give credit where it's due. Thank the Good Wife.
Oh my, I wasn't being fair was I. Yes, she shares a large portion of the credit as well. Sorry for being slightly misogynistic
thank the lord i feel was feeling really depressed about the na scene because there seems to be alot of good players with no way to show off their skills!
I think this is great and I'll be very excited to watch! Huge props to Genna and John for taking the initiative and putting this together. I wish them every success with the venture.
My one concern, which is really more of a question than a concern, is whether the way the prize pool is being distributed is too top-heavy, and if it might be better for all concerned if there was less of a disparity in earnings between the winner and the lower half of the bracket. Root Catz has been outspoken about this issue, and articulates it far better than I can. But the gist of it is that a format which distributes prize money more evenly helps to foster the community and encourage development, since lower placing competitors can still make enough to pay the bills, even without highly lucrative sponsorship deals. Professional golf and tennis tournaments are examples of that sort of format, where dominant players, like your Tiger Woods or Roger Federer really make money from endorsements, while lower tier players, who don't get the endorsements, still get by decently on their winnings, and can afford to focus on their game as a career.
Since this tournament is all about putting the focus on SC2 talent in North and South America, and fostering the scene in these regions, I'd really like to hear Genna or TB's thoughts on this prize pool and SC2 prize pools in general. Also, if you guys haven't, I'd encourage you to get in touch with Catz!
On April 25 2013 08:42 Draxtier wrote: My one concern, which is really more of a question than a concern, is whether the way the prize pool is being distributed is too top-heavy, and if it might be better for all concerned if there was less of a disparity in earnings between the winner and the lower half of the bracket.
It's a one-day, online tournament. It's not something like WCS where you have to play and train for many weeks at a time, or like MLG where you probably have to fly there.
Looking at the NA GM Ladder Ranking there are quite a few people there I have no idea who they are so will be interesting to see who ends up in the tournament
As expected, DeMusliM confirmed on stream that he is not invited to Shoutcraft America. It sounds like Genna reached out in advance to him to apologize, which is nice of her. I think the clear residency rule is good and makes sense, but it does mean Ben gets screwed in both WCS and Shoutcraft! hopefully DeMusliM manages to get official US residency, if he intends to keep playing from the US for the forseeable future.
TB was good enough to reach out prior to our announcement I believe. I have a lot of remorse over Demu not being able to participate in my event, but that's not to say I won't eventually hold something like this for EU-only players. There are also some NA players who do not actually play on the NA ladder, like HuK... although he says he will be back on NA ladder soon.
Wish I could save all of esports, but I'm afraid I have to take these things one at a time....
On April 25 2013 05:43 itsjustatank wrote: what are the specifics on how proof of residency is established in tournament rules? what legal documents should be submitted? will utility bills work? financial statements? police records? will these be made public to provide transparency and proof that the participants are 100% homegrown american?
i do appreciate that it is being called what it is though: protectionism.
Lol at your ridiculous over-reaction. Gee, maybe your social security card or drivers license? Not too tricky to prove who you actually are.
They let you write for this site? God.
in the united states, social security cards are given only to citizens, and having a driver's license does not necessarily signify that you are a lawful permanent resident. using these as proof to attach internet handles and real names is also tricky.
at any case what I am getting at is you are calling for some serious personally identifiable information from people, and I am hoping that you take great care with it.
Hmm.... I had a US social security card longgggg before I became a naturalized citizen. So I'd imagine permanent residents can get them too...or otherwise how did I have one for all those years.
People on work visas get them as well. I imagine its more to prove identity than citizenship.
Edit. I mean legal right to work. Don't know why I said identity :p
Social security card doesn't prove citizenship nor residency. Now depending on how TB and Genna want to run the tournament, the card might be enough. Proving citizenship can be difficult if someone doesn't have a passport, maybe a birth certificate is enough. But at end of the day, none of this matters because it's their tournament, they are funding it, and however they want to format the tournament, is how the tournament will be formatted.
Just appreciate that people are willing to create these tournaments and give gamers opportunities for funding.
On April 25 2013 10:03 Intricacy wrote: TB was good enough to reach out prior to our announcement I believe. I have a lot of remorse over Demu not being able to participate in my event, but that's not to say I won't eventually hold something like this for EU-only players. There are also some NA players who do not actually play on the NA ladder, like HuK... although he says he will be back on NA ladder soon.
Wish I could save all of esports, but I'm afraid I have to take these things one at a time....
You're doing great work and this tournament is a great initiative. Would've been great to see DeMu in it but the line has to be drawn somewhere and some people will sadly fall just outside it
So who are actual contenders for this? I actually can't think of a single NA/SA player that is on the very highest level. On the GM ladder the top 3 is British/French/Korean. The only ones I could think of are Scarlett and HuK (idk if he's even good anymore), but they don't play NA ladder.
Personally I think all the WCS going on will satisfy my SC2 watching needs, the EU/KR version in particular will just be higher level I guess.
Very good though for the players to have something like this, maybe I will check the finals just to see who it will actually be. I don't have any clue, as I said I can't think of even a single really legit good American :X
On April 24 2013 22:52 Shinespark wrote: I'm just glad they remembered there are other countries besides "America" in America...
Anyway, I hope Huk takes it. And Minigun beats Idra.
there was a post earlier in the thread where huk said that he and scarlett were out of luck since they are in korea and will not have the ranking to compete.
On April 24 2013 17:36 Pandemona wrote: Finally. DeMuslim gets to show he is the best NA player Oh and win a tournament for first time in a while :D
Oh, thanks for making this TB
Polt.
Oh fuck ;_; But he shouldn't count ((((( rofl
Actually if you read the fine print, then neither Demuslim or Polt should be allowed to play. Neither are Permanent Residents or Citizens in the legal sense.
Permanent residence can be established quite easily by Demuslim methinks...Polt OTOH, probably not.
That is going to be the argument for this entire thread: what does “Permanent residence” mean? Is it based on intent of the individual or legal status within the country? There are strong arguments on either side. It is sort of the like the class “what is a dwelling” argument that everyone does in law school.
Genna stated herself the requirement is based on citizenship and permanent residence. The only way to obtain permanent residence in these United States if you're not a natural born citizen, is via Green card. Not much to argue about. Work visas are temporary residence cards.
but . . . you want . . . reading and comprehension?!? :-D
On April 25 2013 05:43 itsjustatank wrote: what are the specifics on how proof of residency is established in tournament rules? what legal documents should be submitted? will utility bills work? financial statements? police records? will these be made public to provide transparency and proof that the participants are 100% homegrown american?
i do appreciate that it is being called what it is though: protectionism.
Lol at your ridiculous over-reaction. Gee, maybe your social security card or drivers license? Not too tricky to prove who you actually are.
They let you write for this site? God.
in the united states, social security cards are given only to citizens, and having a driver's license does not necessarily signify that you are a lawful permanent resident. using these as proof to attach internet handles and real names is also tricky.
at any case what I am getting at is you are calling for some serious personally identifiable information from people, and I am hoping that you take great care with it.
Really shows a lot of what is wrong with people. There are 16 people who have to send some kind of proof they can take part in this tournament. Maybe let them and Genna/TB sort that out themselves instead of complaining about something that is not of the slightest interest to yourself?
On April 25 2013 18:51 grs wrote: Really shows a lot of what is wrong with people. There are 16 people who have to send some kind of proof they can take part in this tournament. Maybe let them and Genna/TB sort that out themselves instead of complaining about something that is not of the slightest interest to yourself?
The questions being asked pertains to certain interest no? That usually is the case with questions, you want to know the answer.
I don't think anyone thinks this initiative is bad in any way but some information were left out and some of us wanted to know the specifics in certain areas. I personally dropped the subject since it isn't relevant to me since I can't compete (nor am I good enough) and in the end I trust Genna and John to do a great job, but my interest in the answers is still there just not important enough to harass them with.
On April 25 2013 18:51 grs wrote: Really shows a lot of what is wrong with people. There are 16 people who have to send some kind of proof they can take part in this tournament. Maybe let them and Genna/TB sort that out themselves instead of complaining about something that is not of the slightest interest to yourself?
The questions being asked pertains to certain interest no? That usually is the case with questions, you want to know the answer.
I don't think anyone thinks this initiative is bad in any way but some information were left out and some of us wanted to know the specifics in certain areas. I personally dropped the subject since it isn't relevant to me since I can't compete (nor am I good enough) and in the end I trust Genna and John to do a great job, but my interest in the answers is still there just not important enough to harass them with.
As you stated yourself, it is not relevant to you and the questions are there to harras people. That's what I meant and it seems we agree.
If there is a market for NA-only mid-sized tournament then there will be one, and its good news that the first try is done by people who have proven record of knowing their stuff - so there is much higher chance of the tourney being a success and becoming a regular one and/or inspiring other parties to carry out similar endeavours.
The pre-game interviews are actually one of the most exciting things about this for me. You're always much more invested in a fight when the competitors have to talk they need to live up too.
Apologies for the OTness but since I know TB will almost certainly read this:
Does this tournament mean that the idea for having a barcode tournament mexican wrestler facemask style is now on the back burner or off the table completely? I thought that was a great idea for a fun viewer experience.
While you have a point, keep in mind the amount of points awarded is easily regulated, in that they could just give out a very small, but still somewhat significant amount. Also, it's a bit of an exaggeration on your part to compare a tournament that allows players from *two continents* to a tournament that only allows the citizens of one country.
First it is not *two continents* but 1... look at an olympic flag and count the rings...
Second, the 'Francophone' tournament seems not to be contry-based but language based... their qualification bracket include a player that is playing under the taiwanese flag... so presumably the only criteria is to speak frnech, which cover quite a few people, in all 5 continents... but nevertheless that is irrelevant: point to WCS should not be awarded to closed tournament. they should be awarded on merit in an open, top-level competition.
As for DeMuslim : He is a British citizen isn't he ? and there are many British Territories in the region covered by the tournament rules, including for instance the Falklands Island... so DeMuslim de facto meet the citizenship requirement since he hold a citizenship of one of the territories covered.
While you have a point, keep in mind the amount of points awarded is easily regulated, in that they could just give out a very small, but still somewhat significant amount. Also, it's a bit of an exaggeration on your part to compare a tournament that allows players from *two continents* to a tournament that only allows the citizens of one country.
First it is not *two continents* but 1... look at an olympic flag and count the rings...
Second, the 'Francophone' tournament seems not to be contry-based but language based... their qualification bracket include a player that is playing under the taiwanese flag... so presumably the only criteria is to speak frnech, which cover quite a few people, in all 5 continents... but nevertheless that is irrelevant: point to WCS should not be awarded to closed tournament. they should be awarded on merit in an open, top-level competition.
As for DeMuslim : He is a British citizen isn't he ? and there are many British Territories in the region covered by the tournament rules, including for instance the Falklands Island... so DeMuslim de facto meet the citizenship requirement since he hold a citizenship of one of the territories covered.
That is a ridiculous stretch. I wish people would stop trying to sneak Koreans/British players into the tournament and just accept that there will for once, be one tournament that's actually focussed on players originating from a specific place.
On April 25 2013 10:03 Intricacy wrote: TB was good enough to reach out prior to our announcement I believe. I have a lot of remorse over Demu not being able to participate in my event, but that's not to say I won't eventually hold something like this for EU-only players. There are also some NA players who do not actually play on the NA ladder, like HuK... although he says he will be back on NA ladder soon.
Wish I could save all of esports, but I'm afraid I have to take these things one at a time....
While you have a point, keep in mind the amount of points awarded is easily regulated, in that they could just give out a very small, but still somewhat significant amount. Also, it's a bit of an exaggeration on your part to compare a tournament that allows players from *two continents* to a tournament that only allows the citizens of one country.
First it is not *two continents* but 1... look at an olympic flag and count the rings...
Second, the 'Francophone' tournament seems not to be contry-based but language based... their qualification bracket include a player that is playing under the taiwanese flag... so presumably the only criteria is to speak frnech, which cover quite a few people, in all 5 continents... but nevertheless that is irrelevant: point to WCS should not be awarded to closed tournament. they should be awarded on merit in an open, top-level competition.
As for DeMuslim : He is a British citizen isn't he ? and there are many British Territories in the region covered by the tournament rules, including for instance the Falklands Island... so DeMuslim de facto meet the citizenship requirement since he hold a citizenship of one of the territories covered.
If DeMu were born in one of the British territories that was part of the Americas a case might be had for him being in the tournament but since he's from the British mainland it's quite a big stretch to have him meet the requirements
On April 26 2013 08:55 Fluffboll wrote: If DeMu were born in one of the British territories that was part of the Americas a case might be had for him being in the tournament but since he's from the British mainland it's quite a big stretch to have him meet the requirements
I'm sorry, I may have misread the rules. where does it talk about place of birth ?
Let's not pretend that there is a legal definition behind the rules then, and just say: 'Are eligible, people that will be deemed 'american'-enough by the organizers....
On April 25 2013 05:43 itsjustatank wrote: what are the specifics on how proof of residency is established in tournament rules? what legal documents should be submitted? will utility bills work? financial statements? police records? will these be made public to provide transparency and proof that the participants are 100% homegrown american?
i do appreciate that it is being called what it is though: protectionism.
Lol at your ridiculous over-reaction. Gee, maybe your social security card or drivers license? Not too tricky to prove who you actually are.
They let you write for this site? God.
in the united states, social security cards are given only to citizens, and having a driver's license does not necessarily signify that you are a lawful permanent resident. using these as proof to attach internet handles and real names is also tricky.
at any case what I am getting at is you are calling for some serious personally identifiable information from people, and I am hoping that you take great care with it.
are you quite certain?
It's not true. I got a social security card when I was doing a 5 months internship in US.
On April 26 2013 08:55 Fluffboll wrote: If DeMu were born in one of the British territories that was part of the Americas a case might be had for him being in the tournament but since he's from the British mainland it's quite a big stretch to have him meet the requirements
I'm sorry, I may have misread the rules. where does it talk about place of birth ?
Let's not pretend that there is a legal definition behind the rules then, and just say: 'Are eligible, people that will be deemed 'american'-enough by the organizers....
Obviously you did misread the rules, you require a legal status of permanent residency or citizenship within the continental Americas, which under no circumstances does Demuslim hold.
Not even sure why we're responding to a 4-post pedant but hey, it might be useful for people to read.
Obviously you did misread the rules, you require a legal status of permanent residency or citizenship within the continental Americas, which under no circumstances does Demuslim hold.
My mistake, I indeed missed the 'continental' tidbit, sorry about that. So Bahamas, Cuba, Jamaica, Dominican Republic, etc. are out right ?
On April 26 2013 09:19 TotalBiscuit wrote:
Not even sure why we're responding to a 4-post pedant but hey, it might be useful for people to read.
Such brilliance!! Ride MLG's failure to success! ^_~
I like the idea of the ladder-based system. I think GM requirement can be good, though, it is rather unfortunate for anyone who had not gotten into GM because it didn't do anything before but look cool.
On April 26 2013 09:39 shmget wrote: My mistake, I indeed missed the 'continental' tidbit, sorry about that. So Bahamas, Cuba, Jamaica, Dominican Republic, etc. are out right ?
Doubt it'll matter. What are the odds of having someone from there playing, haha? It'll depend on how players qualify I suppose...
On April 24 2013 18:00 Inimic wrote: First of all, I <3 the idea. However, I'm looking forward to how you approach:
- the korean smurfs which routinely make top 16 GM, like anonymous. - the korean non-smurfs who own face, like cShuttle (I think he lives in NA though) - the European players who ladder on NA sometimes. Is Stephano going to be the Great American Hope (G.A.H.)? - Idra being allowed to compete, despite his venomous, rude behavior every single day on ladder, and in most tournaments he's in. (I USED to like the guy mind you) - the map hackers who sometimes make top 16- saw Grubby play against one recently on EU, top GM, extremely obvious about it with horrible micro.
If you can take care of that stuff (maybe minus the Idra point, I guess he's popular or whatever), I'm really looking forward to it!
1) Verification of identity before inviting them to the tournament will reveal them to be Korean and they will not count. The next player down will have his spot.
2) Same thing.
3) Same thing I imagine.
4) What? Don't forget that IdrA is still the best American Zerg. Regardless of his attitude, he's still the best Zerg in NA. His behavior shouldn't be relevant to his entry to a tournament for the best NA players.
5) Again, their identity will be verified, I'm sure. Face to face interviews? No maphacker will want to do that since they will definitely get caught and their face will be all over the internet.
On April 24 2013 18:00 Inimic wrote: First of all, I <3 the idea. However, I'm looking forward to how you approach:
- the korean smurfs which routinely make top 16 GM, like anonymous. - the korean non-smurfs who own face, like cShuttle (I think he lives in NA though) - the European players who ladder on NA sometimes. Is Stephano going to be the Great American Hope (G.A.H.)? - Idra being allowed to compete, despite his venomous, rude behavior every single day on ladder, and in most tournaments he's in. (I USED to like the guy mind you) - the map hackers who sometimes make top 16- saw Grubby play against one recently on EU, top GM, extremely obvious about it with horrible micro.
If you can take care of that stuff (maybe minus the Idra point, I guess he's popular or whatever), I'm really looking forward to it!
1) Verification of identity before inviting them to the tournament will reveal them to be Korean and they will not count. The next player down will have his spot.
2) Same thing.
3) Same thing I imagine.
4) What? Don't forget that IdrA is still the best American Zerg. Regardless of his attitude, he's still the best Zerg in NA. His behavior shouldn't be relevant to his entry to a tournament for the best NA players.
5) Again, their identity will be verified, I'm sure. Face to face interviews? No maphacker will want to do that since they will definitely get caught and their face will be all over the internet.
Idra isnt even the best American Zerg on EG. Suppy is.
On April 24 2013 18:00 Inimic wrote: First of all, I <3 the idea. However, I'm looking forward to how you approach:
- the korean smurfs which routinely make top 16 GM, like anonymous. - the korean non-smurfs who own face, like cShuttle (I think he lives in NA though) - the European players who ladder on NA sometimes. Is Stephano going to be the Great American Hope (G.A.H.)? - Idra being allowed to compete, despite his venomous, rude behavior every single day on ladder, and in most tournaments he's in. (I USED to like the guy mind you) - the map hackers who sometimes make top 16- saw Grubby play against one recently on EU, top GM, extremely obvious about it with horrible micro.
If you can take care of that stuff (maybe minus the Idra point, I guess he's popular or whatever), I'm really looking forward to it!
1) Verification of identity before inviting them to the tournament will reveal them to be Korean and they will not count. The next player down will have his spot.
2) Same thing.
3) Same thing I imagine.
4) What? Don't forget that IdrA is still the best American Zerg. Regardless of his attitude, he's still the best Zerg in NA. His behavior shouldn't be relevant to his entry to a tournament for the best NA players.
5) Again, their identity will be verified, I'm sure. Face to face interviews? No maphacker will want to do that since they will definitely get caught and their face will be all over the internet.
while i agree with everything else (including the point about IdrA), there is a certain canadian who could make the "best Zerg in NA" claim very debatable. :-)
Nice to see some common sense from TotalBiscuit after all the full on fail we've seen from Blizzard lately with the 2013 WCS. Good luck guys, wish you all the best!
Whatever hope I had in Blizzard died with Diablo 3. Can't even justify the HoTs upgrade because of that fiasco but I'll make sure to tune in to ShoutCraft to show my support for people cleaning up the clusterfuck that is 2013 regionals.
"Raaawwwwrrrr, fuck Blizzard for screwing over American players by letting Koreans participate. They´re ruining a growing scene, we need region locks!"
Tournament for Americans only comes around...
"Raaaawwwwrrrrr!"
If people got what they deserved, we wouldn´t have Starcraft at all.
Very cool that there is a tournament such as this to help motivate and require participants to ladder.
However, I don't agree with the GM requirement. I don't think it is fair to players that have other obligations and can't afford the time to reach GM. I can't think of too many players, but I know Spanishiwa isn't GM but he is a very good player. But it is Genna/TB's choice to do what they see as fair and fit.
I know it may seem that ladder maps would be the obvious choice, but I think it would be cool if some KESPA maps were introduced. They'd change up the playstyles and it would be nice to see maps that aren't being constantly played as was the case for last year.
On April 26 2013 15:16 TeslasPigeon wrote: Very cool that there is a tournament such as this to help motivate and require participants to ladder.
However, I don't agree with the GM requirement. I don't think it is fair to players that have other obligations and can't afford the time to reach GM. I can't think of too many players, but I know Spanishiwa isn't GM but he is a very good player. But it is Genna/TB's choice to do what they see as fair and fit.
I know it may seem that ladder maps would be the obvious choice, but I think it would be cool if some KESPA maps were introduced. They'd change up the playstyles and it would be nice to see maps that aren't being constantly played as was the case for last year.
The point having the GM requirement is that currently there is no reward for being on GM. Lot of players invest time and effort into the ladder, yet there is no "real" way of benefiting from this. This tournament is trying to provide an opportunity to reward those players.
On April 26 2013 15:16 TeslasPigeon wrote: Very cool that there is a tournament such as this to help motivate and require participants to ladder.
However, I don't agree with the GM requirement. I don't think it is fair to players that have other obligations and can't afford the time to reach GM. I can't think of too many players, but I know Spanishiwa isn't GM but he is a very good player. But it is Genna/TB's choice to do what they see as fair and fit.
I know it may seem that ladder maps would be the obvious choice, but I think it would be cool if some KESPA maps were introduced. They'd change up the playstyles and it would be nice to see maps that aren't being constantly played as was the case for last year.
The point having the GM requirement is that currently there is no reward for being on GM. Lot of players invest time and effort into the ladder, yet there is no "real" way of benefiting from this. This tournament is trying to provide an opportunity to reward those players.
It´s a weird situation. Most of the training happens on ladder, but the serious one on smurf accounts. I wonder how they deal with it and whether barcodes will be applicable. If not, it would force players to practice publicly, which many won´t want to.
On April 24 2013 18:00 Inimic wrote: First of all, I <3 the idea. However, I'm looking forward to how you approach:
- the korean smurfs which routinely make top 16 GM, like anonymous. - the korean non-smurfs who own face, like cShuttle (I think he lives in NA though) - the European players who ladder on NA sometimes. Is Stephano going to be the Great American Hope (G.A.H.)? - Idra being allowed to compete, despite his venomous, rude behavior every single day on ladder, and in most tournaments he's in. (I USED to like the guy mind you) - the map hackers who sometimes make top 16- saw Grubby play against one recently on EU, top GM, extremely obvious about it with horrible micro.
If you can take care of that stuff (maybe minus the Idra point, I guess he's popular or whatever), I'm really looking forward to it!
1) Verification of identity before inviting them to the tournament will reveal them to be Korean and they will not count. The next player down will have his spot.
2) Same thing.
3) Same thing I imagine.
4) What? Don't forget that IdrA is still the best American Zerg. Regardless of his attitude, he's still the best Zerg in NA. His behavior shouldn't be relevant to his entry to a tournament for the best NA players.
5) Again, their identity will be verified, I'm sure. Face to face interviews? No maphacker will want to do that since they will definitely get caught and their face will be all over the internet.
Idra isnt even the best American Zerg on EG. Suppy is.
I actually don't think so. Not to take anything away from Suppy, but IdrA is still the most experienced and most accomplished Zerg player in NA.
Cool incentive for laddering. But what to do if all GM slots are filled? There are lots of people GM that aren't in because blizzard caps max GM spots at 200 and only kicks people out if they haven't played in two weeks...
4) What? Don't forget that IdrA is still the best American Zerg. Regardless of his attitude, he's still the best Zerg in NA. His behavior shouldn't be relevant to his entry to a tournament for the best NA players.
Goswser? Suppy? Vibe? Scarlett if we're talking continental. I suppose it's all relative and a matter of opinion (and admittedly I actually haven't seen much of his HotS play) but it's certainly not clear cut.
On April 26 2013 16:50 avilo wrote: Cool incentive for laddering. But what to do if all GM slots are filled? There are lots of people GM that aren't in because blizzard caps max GM spots at 200 and only kicks people out if they haven't played in two weeks...
Practice for next season. TB address that the ladder lock is less than ideal, but they are pushing this out the door pretty quick.
Is this the first region-locked tournament SC2 has seen? Other than WCS 2012 events ofc. If so I'm shocked no one took the initiative before. Awesome move by the Bains! Can't wait for this. I wonder if there are any good tipjar games/pledges to do...such as if a player finishes a game with half or less resources in units lost than his opponent, give him $5.
If the tournament slots were filled today which 16 would make it? Is there a way to check current standings filtered for those eligible for the tournament?
- Idra being allowed to compete, despite his venomous, rude behavior every single day on ladder, and in most tournaments he's in. (I USED to like the guy mind you)
I hope IdrA bms everybody he plays, and I hope everyone bms him back. We need more color in SC2 tournaments.
This is actually the kind of thing that the scene needs; much more benefitial that, I dont know, having a world champion for example. Looking foward to this and how far it can get, I'll be tunning in!
Shoutcraft finalists are apparently getting paid flights to the mlg studios for offline finals in new york at the 21st of may, right before wcs america. (Source)
Going to cross post the information I put out on reddit just now to cover all bases.
Sorry for the change in schedule guys. I've updated the shoutcraft.com website to reflect the new schedule. We will be starting on the 5th of May due to the sudden conflict of the WCS NA Challenger Qualifier being moved to the 4th of May. This qualifier, from what I am told, was moved as a result of not wanting to broadcast on top of DreamHack. So, the one thing I would like potential participants to keep in mind is this... If you are in the semifinals on May 19th, please bear in mind that you could be getting on a plane on May 20th to New York to play in the finals on May 21st. If you are a resident outside of the United States, please ensure that you have a valid passport or are able to obtain one prior to the finals. Let's not have an amazing event only to foil the finals due to paperwork! Thanks <3
On April 26 2013 15:16 TeslasPigeon wrote: Very cool that there is a tournament such as this to help motivate and require participants to ladder.
However, I don't agree with the GM requirement. I don't think it is fair to players that have other obligations and can't afford the time to reach GM. I can't think of too many players, but I know Spanishiwa isn't GM but he is a very good player. But it is Genna/TB's choice to do what they see as fair and fit.
I know it may seem that ladder maps would be the obvious choice, but I think it would be cool if some KESPA maps were introduced. They'd change up the playstyles and it would be nice to see maps that aren't being constantly played as was the case for last year.
The point having the GM requirement is that currently there is no reward for being on GM. Lot of players invest time and effort into the ladder, yet there is no "real" way of benefiting from this. This tournament is trying to provide an opportunity to reward those players.
It´s a weird situation. Most of the training happens on ladder, but the serious one on smurf accounts. I wonder how they deal with it and whether barcodes will be applicable. If not, it would force players to practice publicly, which many won´t want to.
Barcodes are applicable so not matter at all. (case in point - MouzIllusion plays as barcode and is eligible to play if he hits top 16 and proves he own the account).
Apparently there has been match-fixing on the NA ladder.
As the qualification period for the SHOUTcraft America tournament enters its final stage, ladder position now matters more than ever. While this has brought competition to the ladder it has also brought less above-board methods to ensure that player ladder rank remains intact. We have uncovered evidence that some players have been engaging in forced-draws in order to maintain their ladder rank. Several players within the top 16 have multiple ties on their match history in which the build order clearly indicates that both players consenting to a mutual draw in order to maintain their ladder rankings.
This is probably our fault, we did not specifically prohibit this behavior, however we think it is clear to see that it is against the spirit of the competition. Since we did not outline regulations against this behavior, we will be offering a one time amnesty for it. Win-trading and forced draws are against the qualification rules for SHOUTcraft America. Ladder points must be accrued in a legitimate fashion, by beating the opponent fair and square. We should also remind players that the account they are playing on must belong to them and any boosting to the account being done by players other than the primary user of said account, is against the qualification rules. Blizzard is working with us to individually verify each account and needless to say they have logged all IP addresses used to access these accounts. If it is found that multiple players have played on the account in order to rank it up during the qualification period then that account will be subject to disqualification.
The win-trading and the forced draws stop right now. There will be zero tolerance for this behavior going forward. Those ladder points are not worth your qualification spot, do not risk being disqualified.
I'm not certain how I feel about the amnesty. It's clearly against Blizzard policy and, imo, it warrants disqualification. There should be a strong deterrent policy against cheating. And as the points reflected on the ladder today, 1 day before the deadline, have been accrued by cheating, they should not count.
How does the ip checking work? I've probably played on a few different ips on my account, since I was laddering on it at dreamhack and at the gaming house both.
On April 28 2013 23:32 netherDrake wrote: bummed that demu can't play in this, but it's for the good of NA... props to organisers
Why not? Do people need to literally be born and currently living in NA? That sucks, I was going to watch solely on the expectation Demuslim was to play
We want SHOUTcraft America to be a step in that direction. This is an American tournament made exclusively for American players. Participants are required to produce proof of citizenship or permanent residency in either North or South America. Players who are not citizens of a continental American country or hold a permanent residency status, such as a Greencard, will not be eligible to participate.
On April 30 2013 19:54 iaguz wrote: Yea but everyone likes Australians.
I don't. You guys are living in a land where everything is full of poison. That means you must be immune to it! You are way too strong!!!
Also, as everybody knows, Australia is entirely peopled with criminals, and criminals are used to having people not trust them, as you are not trusted by me, so I can clearly not choose the wine in front of you.
It is so exciting to have the three barcodes hanging around up there - who could it be? Artosis? Incontrol? TB himself? The possible drama! :D
We will see if there is any DQs for win swapping. I think there was a bit of that going on.
Statement on the previous page
...This is probably our fault, we did not specifically prohibit this behavior, however we think it is clear to see that it is against the spirit of the competition. Since we did not outline regulations against this behavior, we will be offering a one time amnesty for it....
...This is probably our fault, we did not specifically prohibit this behavior, however we think it is clear to see that it is against the spirit of the competition. Since we did not outline regulations against this behavior, we will be offering a one time amnesty for it....
I dont think anyone will be getting DQed today
That totally bums me out. I was not aware they didn't have it in the rules, but good for TB and folks for sticking to their the letter of the rules they sent out. Still a bummer..
On April 30 2013 17:36 goswser wrote: How does the ip checking work? I've probably played on a few different ips on my account, since I was laddering on it at dreamhack and at the gaming house both.
It's not a case of saying "OH GOD, THERE'S ANOTHER IP THERE, THIS MEANS HE'S CHEATING". It's a case of looking at where the IPs are and when they were logged in, checking for unusual behavior. For instance, if an account logs in in the US for a few hours then an hour later, logs in in KR or Europe, we know there's funny business going on. Same deal if an account logs in back and forth between IPs in different parts of the US over the course of a day. It's pretty easy to figure out where players have been and whether or not the logins are legit.
Hey just to let you know, believe is tanking his account for some reason; just gave me 3 free wins for some reason... not like i asked for them or anything
It's almost like IdrA is tanking his account. (He isn't though, other than with poor play) I don't think he'll make it into the top 16, which is honestly a real shame. You can always count on IdrA to disappoint his fans.
On May 01 2013 03:03 ROOTKane wrote: Hey just to let you know, believe is tanking his account for some reason; just gave me 3 free wins for some reason... not like i asked for them or anything
Yeah we're checking his match history to see if anyone has disproportionately benefited from this.
No idea why he's doing that, if he wanted out of GM he can just leave.
On May 01 2013 03:03 ROOTKane wrote: Hey just to let you know, believe is tanking his account for some reason; just gave me 3 free wins for some reason... not like i asked for them or anything
Yeah we're checking his match history to see if anyone has disproportionately benefited from this.
No idea why he's doing that, if he wanted out of GM he can just leave.
henry and a couple others have said that it's so that he can have a really good winrate at the beginning of next season (his MMR will be so low that he'll go on a large winning streak vs bronzies)
On May 01 2013 03:03 ROOTKane wrote: Hey just to let you know, believe is tanking his account for some reason; just gave me 3 free wins for some reason... not like i asked for them or anything
Yeah we're checking his match history to see if anyone has disproportionately benefited from this.
No idea why he's doing that, if he wanted out of GM he can just leave.
henry and a couple others have said that it's so that he can have a really good winrate at the beginning of next season (his MMR will be so low that he'll go on a large winning streak vs bronzies)
Yes I just confirmed with him via chat, apparently it makes him look better as a coach....
I'd prefer if he didn't do that by fucking with the ladder.
surprised how up there Neeb and hellokitty are. both play eu quite a bit, but they are not nearly on the same MMR level as on NA... funny how low idra is when everyone on NA actually ladders activly, he rly isnt what he used to be it seems :/
On May 01 2013 03:03 ROOTKane wrote: Hey just to let you know, believe is tanking his account for some reason; just gave me 3 free wins for some reason... not like i asked for them or anything
Yeah we're checking his match history to see if anyone has disproportionately benefited from this.
No idea why he's doing that, if he wanted out of GM he can just leave.
henry and a couple others have said that it's so that he can have a really good winrate at the beginning of next season (his MMR will be so low that he'll go on a large winning streak vs bronzies)
Yes I just confirmed with him via chat, apparently it makes him look better as a coach....
I'd prefer if he didn't do that by fucking with the ladder.
On May 01 2013 03:03 ROOTKane wrote: Hey just to let you know, believe is tanking his account for some reason; just gave me 3 free wins for some reason... not like i asked for them or anything
Yeah we're checking his match history to see if anyone has disproportionately benefited from this.
No idea why he's doing that, if he wanted out of GM he can just leave.
henry and a couple others have said that it's so that he can have a really good winrate at the beginning of next season (his MMR will be so low that he'll go on a large winning streak vs bronzies)
Yes I just confirmed with him via chat, apparently it makes him look better as a coach....
I'd prefer if he didn't do that by fucking with the ladder.
On May 01 2013 03:03 ROOTKane wrote: Hey just to let you know, believe is tanking his account for some reason; just gave me 3 free wins for some reason... not like i asked for them or anything
Yeah we're checking his match history to see if anyone has disproportionately benefited from this.
No idea why he's doing that, if he wanted out of GM he can just leave.
henry and a couple others have said that it's so that he can have a really good winrate at the beginning of next season (his MMR will be so low that he'll go on a large winning streak vs bronzies)
Yes I just confirmed with him via chat, apparently it makes him look better as a coach....
I'd prefer if he didn't do that by fucking with the ladder.
On May 01 2013 03:03 ROOTKane wrote: Hey just to let you know, believe is tanking his account for some reason; just gave me 3 free wins for some reason... not like i asked for them or anything
Yeah we're checking his match history to see if anyone has disproportionately benefited from this.
No idea why he's doing that, if he wanted out of GM he can just leave.
henry and a couple others have said that it's so that he can have a really good winrate at the beginning of next season (his MMR will be so low that he'll go on a large winning streak vs bronzies)
Yes I just confirmed with him via chat, apparently it makes him look better as a coach....
I'd prefer if he didn't do that by fucking with the ladder.
That is so ridiculous.
It isnt ridiculous, its just very, very sad.
And confusing. A players win rate might be like the 15th thing I look at when choosing a coach. The first thing I would look at is if they were an idiot or an ass. But I guess he has a plan.
On May 01 2013 03:03 ROOTKane wrote: Hey just to let you know, believe is tanking his account for some reason; just gave me 3 free wins for some reason... not like i asked for them or anything
Yeah we're checking his match history to see if anyone has disproportionately benefited from this.
No idea why he's doing that, if he wanted out of GM he can just leave.
henry and a couple others have said that it's so that he can have a really good winrate at the beginning of next season (his MMR will be so low that he'll go on a large winning streak vs bronzies)
Yes I just confirmed with him via chat, apparently it makes him look better as a coach....
I'd prefer if he didn't do that by fucking with the ladder.
That is so ridiculous.
It isnt ridiculous, its just very, very sad.
And confusing. A players win rate might be like the 15th thing I look at when choosing a coach. The first thing I would look at is if they were an idiot or an ass. But I guess he has a plan.
you might not want believe as a coach then; he is both an idiot and an ass.
Shoutcraft America made watching streams (and I guess laddering in general) considerably more interesting and exiting the past few days... The nice thing is, that even the streams of 'medium' GMs get more fun to watch because sometimes they manage to take away a win from a favorite which might cost them a spot in the tournament.
Thank you Intricacy & TB. Way to save the ladder. (you actually managed to entertain people with SCA before it even began... that has to be a first)
As the qualification period for the SHOUTcraft America tournament enters its final stage, ladder position now matters more than ever. While this has brought competition to the ladder it has also brought less above-board methods to ensure that player ladder rank remains intact. We have uncovered evidence that some players have been engaging in forced-draws in order to maintain their ladder rank. Several players within the top 16 have multiple ties on their match history in which the build order clearly indicates that both players consenting to a mutual draw in order to maintain their ladder rankings.
This is probably our fault, we did not specifically prohibit this behavior, however we think it is clear to see that it is against the spirit of the competition. Since we did not outline regulations against this behavior, we will be offering a one time amnesty for it. Win-trading and forced draws are against the qualification rules for SHOUTcraft America. Ladder points must be accrued in a legitimate fashion, by beating the opponent fair and square. We should also remind players that the account they are playing on must belong to them and any boosting to the account being done by players other than the primary user of said account, is against the qualification rules. Blizzard is working with us to individually verify each account and needless to say they have logged all IP addresses used to access these accounts. If it is found that multiple players have played on the account in order to rank it up during the qualification period then that account will be subject to disqualification.
The win-trading and the forced draws stop right now. There will be zero tolerance for this behavior going forward. Those ladder points are not worth your qualification spot, do not risk being disqualified.
I'm not certain how I feel about the amnesty. It's clearly against Blizzard policy and, imo, it warrants disqualification. There should be a strong deterrent policy against cheating. And as the points reflected on the ladder today, 1 day before the deadline, have been accrued by cheating, they should not count.
Man, isn’t anyone else incredibly disappointed in this? I realise that whenever money gets involved it can motivate people to do things they normally wouldn’t, and for other, maybe less established players, this could be their one big shot at breaking into the pro-scene and will do anything to get there. But come on guys, win trading? Force drawing? Have a little fucking dignity. The whole “wasn’t in the rules” argument really doesn’t cut it (although as said there won’t be any repercussions for this one time), what were these un-named individuals thinking? That cheating so brazenly would be acceptable means to qualify for a tournament? And it is brazen because the match history logs so much damn information.
I guess some people will think I’m overreacting, I probably am, but cheating is just one of those things that really makes my blood boil. The only thing worse than a cheater is one gets caught so easily.
Regardless, there’s obviously going to be problems in the beginning (in this case, not accounting for the need of certain rules, ect) however I actually think that in the long run a tournament like this may make Grandmaster league so much more meaningful. Up until now GM has been little more than a glorfied ego boost, and cynics would say it’s basically a private league for hackers and stream-snipers. Now there’s actual incentive for it, it’s no longer a case of, “k, you made GM, end-of-the-line. Try Kr server”. Also it may (and I kind of am reaching here) prompt Blizzard to actually be more proactive in regulating the GM league. If it is been used as a means to help people qualify for a tournament, (a tournament that is possibly paying a commission to Blizzard), surely it’ll be in Blizzards interest to take a stance against all the proven hackers who are there with no other purpose than purely to sabotage the legitimate players? But hey, one step at a time.
Easy money for Scarlett if she is still going to be playing at this point (not sure when her break starts).... Otherwise I would guess one of the Root dudes
edit. Apparently she doesnt have an account in the top 25, I just assumed she did.
On May 01 2013 08:04 Darpa wrote: Easy money for Scarlett if she is still going to be playing at this point (not sure when her break starts).... Otherwise I would guess one of the Root dudes
Scarlett AFAIK isn't even in NA ladder. So no chance for her.
On May 01 2013 08:04 Darpa wrote: Easy money for Scarlett if she is still going to playing at this point (not sure when her break starts)....
Unless Scarlett is one of the three Barcode Zergs in top25 she doesn't have an account high enough on NA server.
Oh wow, and the cutoff is May 1st, shame. She could level one in a couple of days, but it may be too late.
Ladder is locked for a week or so. So If anybody wasn't GM from beggining he was cut off. It will be aparently mended with season two which will be announced with much more time to grind
A good time to have at least 1 hand, be American and play Terran... Top 6 in NA, all Terran players. More Terran players in the top 6 than there are Toss players in the top 30. Dis game...
On May 01 2013 08:27 playa wrote: A good time to have at least 1 hand, be American and play Terran... Top 6 in NA, all Terran players. More Terran players in the top 6 than there are Toss players in the top 30. Dis game...
Never before has such originality and analytic perception been displayed in a TL post. Brava! + Show Spoiler +
On May 01 2013 03:03 ROOTKane wrote: Hey just to let you know, believe is tanking his account for some reason; just gave me 3 free wins for some reason... not like i asked for them or anything
Yeah we're checking his match history to see if anyone has disproportionately benefited from this.
No idea why he's doing that, if he wanted out of GM he can just leave.
henry and a couple others have said that it's so that he can have a really good winrate at the beginning of next season (his MMR will be so low that he'll go on a large winning streak vs bronzies)
Yes I just confirmed with him via chat, apparently it makes him look better as a coach....
I'd prefer if he didn't do that by fucking with the ladder.
That is so ridiculous.
It isnt ridiculous, its just very, very sad.
And confusing. A players win rate might be like the 15th thing I look at when choosing a coach. The first thing I would look at is if they were an idiot or an ass. But I guess he has a plan.
you might not want believe as a coach then; he is both an idiot and an ass.
yeah my god though he's so hilarious LOL. Everytime his gateway all in/immortal all in fails "zerg imbalanced!". Funniest thing rofl. God I hate that guy.
On May 01 2013 06:28 KalWarkov wrote: surprised how up there Neeb and hellokitty are. both play eu quite a bit, but they are not nearly on the same MMR level as on NA... funny how low idra is when everyone on NA actually ladders activly, he rly isnt what he used to be it seems :/
why are you surprised :/ im top 16 gm mmr on eu and na and i'm also gm mmr on kr
On May 01 2013 06:28 KalWarkov wrote: surprised how up there Neeb and hellokitty are. both play eu quite a bit, but they are not nearly on the same MMR level as on NA... funny how low idra is when everyone on NA actually ladders activly, he rly isnt what he used to be it seems :/
What are you talking about? Neeb doesn't play EU haha
I will watch the shit out of this tourney. VIbe is going to roflstomp some fools (if he can make top 16 in ladder, he is on Korea a lot)
I will stop watching WCS NA if all of the NA players are knocked out because it was poorly handled by blizzard.
These tourney's will help grow the scene. I think if they expand it to people who ARE living in the united states in a permanent basis (like have their permanent home there for like 6 months out of the year or something) it will help the competition. Having polt demuslim in the tourney in the 2nd iteration of the tourney (and I feel this will be successful enough to warrant a 2nd one)
On May 01 2013 06:28 KalWarkov wrote: surprised how up there Neeb and hellokitty are. both play eu quite a bit, but they are not nearly on the same MMR level as on NA... funny how low idra is when everyone on NA actually ladders activly, he rly isnt what he used to be it seems :/
why are you surprised :/ im top 16 gm mmr on eu and na and i'm also gm mmr on kr
Played you the yesterday and i was slightly favored on EU, don't think you're top 16 gm mmr on EU yet.
scanned the post, havent seen anything, anyone have any idea who TB was talking about when he said people were trading wins and forcing ties against each other to not lose points?
On May 01 2013 10:20 PviLLe3 wrote: scanned the post, havent seen anything, anyone have any idea who TB was talking about when he said people were trading wins and forcing ties against each other to not lose points?
For the forced ties, it's very easy to find in the match history. There were I think at least 6 players who have an obviously forced tie on their records.
On May 01 2013 10:20 PviLLe3 wrote: scanned the post, havent seen anything, anyone have any idea who TB was talking about when he said people were trading wins and forcing ties against each other to not lose points?
For the forced ties, it's very easy to find in the match history. There were I think at least 6 players who have an obviously forced tie on their records.
thats a shame, ill take a peek at ladder when i log into sc2. cant really blame them though i guess since there was no established rule against it. but for how quick you and GB got this tourney together its not gonna be perfect but its looking pretty damn close, GL to everyone involved hope it turns out well and becomes a scheduled event/tournament every season.
On May 01 2013 06:28 KalWarkov wrote: surprised how up there Neeb and hellokitty are. both play eu quite a bit, but they are not nearly on the same MMR level as on NA... funny how low idra is when everyone on NA actually ladders activly, he rly isnt what he used to be it seems :/
why are you surprised :/ im top 16 gm mmr on eu and na and i'm also gm mmr on kr
Played you the yesterday and i was slightly favored on EU, don't think you're top 16 gm mmr on EU yet.
And I played a barcode toss whos top 16 and he lost about 15 points I think
On May 01 2013 13:49 IdrA wrote: are there regularly updating standings anywhere?
Negative. You are extremely close however.
In the last hour I'll be streaming to keep people up to date on everything.
http://sc2links.com/blog/ < This blog post is accurate in terms of who is eligible and who is not. None of the barcodes or Anonymous are in the running. The rankings on there are not up to date though.
A note to players. There is the possibility that members of the Top 16 may decline to play. We will be sending out official invites as well as requests for identification after the ladder resets. If a player declines then the 17th, 18th etc in line will be invited until we have a full roster.
There are currently 8 ineligible accounts in the Top 24 so yes, you'd currently need to be Top 24 to qualify. This assumes that as of the time of writing, Yiptastic is eligible and I can't find information about him.
On May 01 2013 14:02 TotalBiscuit wrote: There are currently 8 ineligible accounts in the Top 24 so yes, you'd currently need to be Top 24 to qualify. This assumes that as of the time of writing, Yiptastic is eligible and I can't find information about him.
On May 01 2013 14:02 TotalBiscuit wrote: There are currently 8 ineligible accounts in the Top 24 so yes, you'd currently need to be Top 24 to qualify. This assumes that as of the time of writing, Yiptastic is eligible and I can't find information about him.
i wouldn't assume he's eligible (hes not)
Do you have evidence of who that is? please drop me a line via PM.
Just posting this in as many places as possible so players see it.
ALL qualified players must verify their participation by emailing gennabain at cynicalbrit dot com with proof of account ownership and residency. We suggest drivers license would be a good bet, short-form birth certificate alongside some form of photo ID would be fine otherwise.
We also remind players that, as stated in the announcement and tournament rules, groups will feature on camera interviews and you will need a webcam for this and a working mic.
I'm going to start individually interviewing each player for featurettes starting tomorrow.
Can we call this the special olympics of Starcraft ? :p
J/k, j/k don't hit me. It's a very needed initiative. I hope both this tournament and WCS are succesfull, each filling a different role. I'll tune in to show support.
Looking at the list of invitees, I'm a bit worried that the viewer count will be quite small unless TB and or some other casters can really get a good show going. The quality of games by the look of it won't be extremely high. Hoping for a great and entertaining tournament tho!
On May 01 2013 17:23 namste wrote: Looking at the list of invitees, I'm a bit worried that the viewer count will be quite small unless TB and or some other casters can really get a good show going. The quality of games by the look of it won't be extremely high. Hoping for a great and entertaining tournament tho!
Actually I think there's the potential to create really awesome storylines, plus even if the skill of the games may be lower than normal tournaments that does not mean the quality of games is necessarily reduced . . . if anything it can lead to even more exciting games. Plus I think most people underestimate NA players anyways. Tune in anyways and see if you might have a different opinion hopefully ^^
On May 01 2013 17:23 namste wrote: Looking at the list of invitees, I'm a bit worried that the viewer count will be quite small unless TB and or some other casters can really get a good show going. The quality of games by the look of it won't be extremely high. Hoping for a great and entertaining tournament tho!
Well given the way things are, I think the only way this could've gone better is if IdrA had made it in, although that's only from a viewership standpoint and not necessarily a game quality one.
I don't know, I think the line-up looks pretty good, I'm definitely interested in seeing Suppy and ViBe play, as well as some of the more up-and-coming players like Xenocider, Drunkenboi and hendralisk.
It's great to see so much new talent in a tournament like this. Congratulations to ROOT for getting so many players qualified, as well as to FXO.NA, which although is not a fully-fledged professional organisation, is making leaps and bounds in helping American talent develop, and the two players that qualified is proof of this.
On the other hand, it's worrying to see the big American teams have so little players playing in this. Quantic, Complexity and especially EG, with their sort of resources, should have occupied at least half the spots, as their players get salaries and support, instead, we have a lot of teamless players making the cut, and while great for them, it shows that American teams are not as interested in investing in their domestic talent as having a few good Koreans to carry them.
It's great to see skill and dedication trump money and popularity. Thank you TB and Genna! (Yes, I know that this ladder ranking is not definitive proof of skill, or a definitive list of the best players in North America for that matter (HuK, Scarlett, Illusion, MajOr T.T) but it's still indicative at the very least.
On May 01 2013 17:23 namste wrote: Looking at the list of invitees, I'm a bit worried that the viewer count will be quite small unless TB and or some other casters can really get a good show going. The quality of games by the look of it won't be extremely high. Hoping for a great and entertaining tournament tho!
Don't worry, this event will be a great success. All it takes is some positive attitude towards NA players. And happy post #2000
Wow, rsvp came out of no where. There's actually a good mix of races there. Six Terran, five Zerg and five Protoss. Also do you think Minigun's diver licence will actually say Chad Motherfucker Jones?
On May 01 2013 17:23 namste wrote: Looking at the list of invitees, I'm a bit worried that the viewer count will be quite small unless TB and or some other casters can really get a good show going. The quality of games by the look of it won't be extremely high. Hoping for a great and entertaining tournament tho!
Shoutcraft tournaments would feature 8 players, none of them Korean and usually a dark horse or two like DDE and Bling (he was pretty much unknown at the time). Also the prize pool never exceeded $5000. Despite this every single one proved incredibly popular. Considering the hype behind this and the fact that it's doing everything about three times bigger than the previous tournaments I really think you don't need to worry about a 'low viewer count'.
On May 01 2013 17:23 namste wrote: Looking at the list of invitees, I'm a bit worried that the viewer count will be quite small unless TB and or some other casters can really get a good show going. The quality of games by the look of it won't be extremely high. Hoping for a great and entertaining tournament tho!
Actually I think there's the potential to create really awesome storylines, plus even if the skill of the games may be lower than normal tournaments that does not mean the quality of games is necessarily reduced . . . if anything it can lead to even more exciting games. Plus I think most people underestimate NA players anyways. Tune in anyways and see if you might have a different opinion hopefully ^^
Tbh with you, I have no idea what people refer to when they talk about storylines, it's not like any tournament organiser has ever gone really up close and personal with the players. MLG and such tournaments always talk about exciting storylines, which in my opinion are never there. A story is more than a guy beating some other slightly favored opponent and advancing a slight further than most people would've guessed. The tournament organisers really need to get up close and personal with the players in order for these so called storylines to actually form.
But yeah I'm hoping for a really great tournament and I wish for everything to go absolutely perfectly. I will tune in to see what kind of production and the quality of the games there are. Might end up watching the whole thing.
On May 01 2013 18:56 Musicus wrote: Seems like forever since we saw Idra compete, I thought he would play in this... did he not try or want?
Lineup looks still really good, looking forward to see the american scene duke it out.
I checked Idra's match history, looks like he was trying but then lost 4 games in a row, losing a lot of points and then gave up about 1 hour before the deadline.
On May 01 2013 18:56 Musicus wrote: Seems like forever since we saw Idra compete, I thought he would play in this... did he not try or want?
Lineup looks still really good, looking forward to see the american scene duke it out.
I checked Idra's match history, looks like he was trying but then lost 4 games in a row, losing a lot of points and then gave up about 1 hour before the deadline.
Hm sad to hear, I mean it's a fair process but it's still a weird feeling. Somehow I still thought Idra was on a level where it's not even a question if he'd make top16 in something like this or not. That if he tried it would be easy for him. Hope he comes back strong in WCS.
On May 01 2013 18:56 Musicus wrote: Seems like forever since we saw Idra compete, I thought he would play in this... did he not try or want?
Lineup looks still really good, looking forward to see the american scene duke it out.
I checked Idra's match history, looks like he was trying but then lost 4 games in a row, losing a lot of points and then gave up about 1 hour before the deadline.
Hm sad to hear, I mean it's a fair process but it's still a weird feeling. Somehow I still thought Idra was on a level where it's not even a question if he'd make top16 in something like this or not. That if he tried it would be easy for him. Hope he comes back strong in WCS.
I think the main reason he didn't have enough points is because for the past few days or week he would instantly leave the game if he was matched up with Demuslim.
On May 01 2013 18:56 Musicus wrote: Seems like forever since we saw Idra compete, I thought he would play in this... did he not try or want?
Lineup looks still really good, looking forward to see the american scene duke it out.
I checked Idra's match history, looks like he was trying but then lost 4 games in a row, losing a lot of points and then gave up about 1 hour before the deadline.
Hm sad to hear, I mean it's a fair process but it's still a weird feeling. Somehow I still thought Idra was on a level where it's not even a question if he'd make top16 in something like this or not. That if he tried it would be easy for him. Hope he comes back strong in WCS.
I think the main reason he didn't have enough points is because for the past few days or week he would instantly leave the game if he was matched up with Demuslim.
I wonder how he dealt with ByuN aka PuppyKing - I've seen him leave those games too...
A bit of fan-art wallpaper. Players aren't finalised, and sadly it's missing a couple photos I couldn't find.
It's not my best work, but i had the urge! In reality it's actually probably pointless to post this. Oh well, I can update it later I guess (let me know if I mixed up photos, they are hard to find).
Im gonna tune in for sure, but Josh is right. Missing Nony and Idra is gonna make this alot less exciting. Then again, u never know how good some of these not so well known guys are! :O
I think this lineup is very strong overall, a lot of these guys are seriously underrated and I hope this tournament will bring them a bit more spotlight.
On May 01 2013 23:15 stfouri wrote: Im gonna tune in for sure, but Josh is right. Missing Nony and Idra is gonna make this alot less exciting. Then again, u never know how good some of these not so well known guys are! :O
I would say at least half of them are better than those two, although I haven't seen *that* many games to ascertain it.
On May 02 2013 06:59 dvorakftw wrote: I think the idea mentioned last ItG about having 2 or 4 spots for community fan vote could be great for the next one.
I think people should earn their spots rather than get in just by being popular.
On May 02 2013 06:59 dvorakftw wrote: I think the idea mentioned last ItG about having 2 or 4 spots for community fan vote could be great for the next one.
I think people should earn their spots rather than get in just by being popular.
This times 1000 please keep that we have enough invite tournaments as there are
On May 02 2013 06:59 dvorakftw wrote: I think the idea mentioned last ItG about having 2 or 4 spots for community fan vote could be great for the next one.
I think people should earn their spots rather than get in just by being popular.
This times 1000 please keep that we have enough invite tournaments as there are
edit: wrote it while i'm on monster energy drinks.
This tournament looks awesome! This is what I am most excited for in SC2 right now. I wish I hadn't gone to sleep at midnight and missed the last minute Vibe entry.
On May 02 2013 06:59 dvorakftw wrote: I think the idea mentioned last ItG about having 2 or 4 spots for community fan vote could be great for the next one.
That's not a good idea long term. Better to make the current top players popular than giving has-beens free passes into the spotlight just because they'll get more viewers in the short term.
On May 02 2013 06:59 dvorakftw wrote: I think the idea mentioned last ItG about having 2 or 4 spots for community fan vote could be great for the next one.
That's not a good idea long term. Better to make the current top players popular than giving has-beens free passes into the spotlight just because they'll get more viewers in the short term.
It's easier and faster to make current top players popular by having them beat popular "has-beens" than if they beat another relatively unknown player.
On May 02 2013 06:59 dvorakftw wrote: I think the idea mentioned last ItG about having 2 or 4 spots for community fan vote could be great for the next one.
I think people should earn their spots rather than get in just by being popular.
This times 1000 please keep that we have enough invite tournaments as there are
then actually win games and get up the ladder rank so you won't complain about it.
edit: the qualification Is Laddering.
Uh I was agreeing with him about invites? I know the qualification is laddering... Not sure where you misread my post but I said this is a good thing and that he SHOULDN'T do invites by fan votes or anything.
I don't know where you got I was complaining about it please re-read my post about what I was thanking him for. I didnt' even try to ladder on NA much because I played mainly on kr and when this was announced I didn't have enough time due to work/school to attempt it. I hope they do a ladder thing again this season or qualifiers either work for me (assuming this happens again). Either way I am definitely going to ladder more on NA this season as last season I just did enough to keep me GM ^_^.
It's very interesting to see how much the NA scene has changed. You wouldn't even know about it because every tournament has invites of old school known guys and Koreans qualify.
And now when we get a tournament for top NA players people are complaining because they don't know them. That kind of shows you how Koreans are ruining NA scene.
On May 02 2013 06:59 dvorakftw wrote: I think the idea mentioned last ItG about having 2 or 4 spots for community fan vote could be great for the next one.
That would destroy the pupose of the tournament and AM would continue to follow around people who are not the best in their region anymore, like they are doing too much already anyways.
On May 02 2013 18:00 Spidinko wrote: It's very interesting to see how much the NA scene has changed. You wouldn't even know about it because every tournament has invites of old school known guys and Koreans qualify.
And now when we get a tournament for top NA players people are complaining because they don't know them. That kind of shows you how Koreans are ruining NA scene.
rofl that last sentence kinda came outta nowhere, or maybe there's simple logic i'm missing
On May 02 2013 06:59 dvorakftw wrote: I think the idea mentioned last ItG about having 2 or 4 spots for community fan vote could be great for the next one.
I think people should earn their spots rather than get in just by being popular.
Yes 10000x. I think this was one of the biggest problems with WCS. I know they were restricted by time to get it starting, but I would have liked to see less invites and more players through qualifiers (even if they did like a points system from the qualifiers like TSL). Thanks for making such a cool tournament, TotalBiscuit.
On May 02 2013 06:59 dvorakftw wrote: I think the idea mentioned last ItG about having 2 or 4 spots for community fan vote could be great for the next one.
That's not a good idea long term. Better to make the current top players popular than giving has-beens free passes into the spotlight just because they'll get more viewers in the short term.
It's easier and faster to make current top players popular by having them beat popular "has-beens" than if they beat another relatively unknown player.
Yeah, I don't think the idea that using celebrity for immediate results is controversial. The more interesting discussion is about what kind of content is best for the future.
On May 01 2013 23:26 Fischbacher wrote: Looking forward to this tournament. The line-up is light on fan favourites but it gives us a chance to see more up and comers which is nice.
People always say that they want to see new blood in the scene so lets see if that is actually true or not.
On May 02 2013 06:59 dvorakftw wrote: I think the idea mentioned last ItG about having 2 or 4 spots for community fan vote could be great for the next one.
That's not a good idea long term. Better to make the current top players popular than giving has-beens free passes into the spotlight just because they'll get more viewers in the short term.
It's easier and faster to make current top players popular by having them beat popular "has-beens" than if they beat another relatively unknown player.
Yeah, I don't think the idea that using celebrity for immediate results is controversial. The more interesting discussion is about what kind of content is best for the future.
There is no arguing here with NonY, not if you are actually interested in the actual development of the scene.
You can't create a healthy scene in the long term if the community wants their drama favorites to show up, it might be good for making money on TV, but it's catastrophic for a competitive environment. The community is entitled to their own favorites, but deciding tournament rosters for something deeply based on skill is just wrong on so many levels I cannot even begin to think about. What's next, kicking players out of tournaments they qualify for because community can vote out a player? Leave this kind of crap for crappy reality TV shows.
If you want to see has-beens get beaten by random/new/upcoming players then there are some streams that you can find that offer what you want.
On May 03 2013 06:20 Shellshock1122 wrote: all those team kills O_o
Isn't this the GSL group stage format so 2 get out. This means only Root players in group A have anything to worry about (theoritically). But it could get ugly.
On May 01 2013 23:26 Fischbacher wrote: Looking forward to this tournament. The line-up is light on fan favourites but it gives us a chance to see more up and comers which is nice.
People always say that they want to see new blood in the scene so lets see if that is actually true or not.
I'll only be watching because of Husky and TB casting, then eventually Day9. If anyone else was casting this, I doubt it would have the same draw that Cynical Brit has. Luckily Cynical Brit is in a position to benefit the community and put on a good show.
On May 02 2013 06:59 dvorakftw wrote: I think the idea mentioned last ItG about having 2 or 4 spots for community fan vote could be great for the next one.
I think people should earn their spots rather than get in just by being popular.
Would it help if the statement is amended to add a requirement such as being in the top 50 or 100 eligible which I sort of took for granted?
Edit to add: Also, I would argue and would be surprised if you disagree that popularity, in eSports at least, is earned. Certainly we could all pick some players we think deserve to be more popular and others deserve to be less popular but still.
It's certainly respectable to have the pure qualifications, but as mentioned it helps overall to maximize hype potential. Players campaigning for votes gives you free advertising, encourages player/fan interactions, etc., adds a storyline, and if/when unknown players win against them it's an extra notable achievement.
Of course there would be a downside or two, such as IdrA shrugging off deadline on the assumption he could get voted in (added while I do the edit above: Then again imagine iNcontroL vs IdrA trying to get voted in) so adding invites isn't all sunshine and kittens but I think from my outsider perspective there is more upside overall. Then again if I'm so smart why don't I have a million YouTube subscribers and the big money....
On May 03 2013 06:44 goswser wrote: Really interesting groups, will create some interesting story lines . Glad I didn't get Group C, all 4 of those players are really good haha.
Ya group c is definitely the toughest.
My predictions:
Group A: Maker + Minigun Group B: goswser + hendralisk Group C: Kane + Suppy Group D: qxc + STATE
On May 03 2013 06:44 goswser wrote: Really interesting groups, will create some interesting story lines . Glad I didn't get Group C, all 4 of those players are really good haha.
Ya group c is definitely the toughest.
My predictions:
Group A: Maker + Minigun Group B: goswser + hendralisk Group C: Kane + Suppy Group D: qxc + STATE
My predictions: Group A: Minigun, Vibe Group B: me, hendralisk Group C: Kane, Masa Group D: Qxc, State
On May 03 2013 06:44 goswser wrote: Really interesting groups, will create some interesting story lines . Glad I didn't get Group C, all 4 of those players are really good haha.
Ya group c is definitely the toughest.
My predictions:
Group A: Maker + Minigun Group B: goswser + hendralisk Group C: Kane + Suppy Group D: qxc + STATE
On May 02 2013 18:00 Spidinko wrote: It's very interesting to see how much the NA scene has changed. You wouldn't even know about it because every tournament has invites of old school known guys and Koreans qualify.
And now when we get a tournament for top NA players people are complaining because they don't know them. That kind of shows you how Koreans are ruining NA scene.
rofl that last sentence kinda came outta nowhere, or maybe there's simple logic i'm missing
Yeah I didn't really go into details as this is not the place.
But if you look at most NA tournaments, they invite known players and make a qualifier. Qualifiers are a great way to get some recognition in the scene. All's good until you realize that basically only Koreans get through those qualifiers and what that means is, that new NA talent doesn't get the recognition it deserves. Without recognition they have it harder to become known as top NA players and unless they can beat top KR players they don't have very high chances of becoming known.
It can be argued that this leads to players losing incentive which further lowers the quality of the region.
Fun fact During Flash vs Parting yesterday I saw only 46k viewers on the Gom stream on Twitch. I think this tournament won't beat that despite better hours, so whoever bet there would be more than 50k concurrents(I think that was Wheat, right?) has a lot of #tagging to do...
On April 24 2013 18:00 Inimic wrote: First of all, I <3 the idea. However, I'm looking forward to how you approach:
- the korean smurfs which routinely make top 16 GM, like anonymous. - the korean non-smurfs who own face, like cShuttle (I think he lives in NA though) - the European players who ladder on NA sometimes. Is Stephano going to be the Great American Hope (G.A.H.)? - Idra being allowed to compete, despite his venomous, rude behavior every single day on ladder, and in most tournaments he's in. (I USED to like the guy mind you) - the map hackers who sometimes make top 16- saw Grubby play against one recently on EU, top GM, extremely obvious about it with horrible micro.
If you can take care of that stuff (maybe minus the Idra point, I guess he's popular or whatever), I'm really looking forward to it!
On May 03 2013 17:35 50bani wrote: Fun fact During Flash vs Parting yesterday I saw only 46k viewers on the Gom stream on Twitch. I think this tournament won't beat that despite better hours, so whoever bet there would be more than 50k concurrents(I think that was Wheat, right?) has a lot of #tagging to do...
I'd bet my non-existent pride that the RO16 will pull in 30,000. With the finals hitting the 45,000-50,000 mark. Does anyone have the figures of the previous Shoutcraft invitational by any chance?
On May 03 2013 17:35 50bani wrote: Fun fact During Flash vs Parting yesterday I saw only 46k viewers on the Gom stream on Twitch. I think this tournament won't beat that despite better hours, so whoever bet there would be more than 50k concurrents(I think that was Wheat, right?) has a lot of #tagging to do...
I'd bet my non-existent pride that the RO16 will pull in 30,000. With the finals hitting the 45,000-50,000 mark. Does anyone have the figures of the previous Shoutcraft invitational by any chance?
They had around 20k viewers if I remember correctly.
On May 03 2013 17:35 50bani wrote: Fun fact During Flash vs Parting yesterday I saw only 46k viewers on the Gom stream on Twitch. I think this tournament won't beat that despite better hours, so whoever bet there would be more than 50k concurrents(I think that was Wheat, right?) has a lot of #tagging to do...
I'd bet my non-existent pride that the RO16 will pull in 30,000. With the finals hitting the 45,000-50,000 mark. Does anyone have the figures of the previous Shoutcraft invitational by any chance?
They had around 20k viewers if I remember correctly.
50K at least once in this tournament is pretty obtainable with the reach TB has and everyone else that will support this day9/husky/teams etc + I'm sure they will broadcast at the perfect time to grab both NA and as many EU viewers as they can.
On May 02 2013 18:00 Spidinko wrote: It's very interesting to see how much the NA scene has changed. You wouldn't even know about it because every tournament has invites of old school known guys and Koreans qualify.
And now when we get a tournament for top NA players people are complaining because they don't know them. That kind of shows you how Koreans are ruining NA scene.
rofl that last sentence kinda came outta nowhere, or maybe there's simple logic i'm missing
Yeah I didn't really go into details as this is not the place.
But if you look at most NA tournaments, they invite known players and make a qualifier. Qualifiers are a great way to get some recognition in the scene. All's good until you realize that basically only Koreans get through those qualifiers and what that means is, that new NA talent doesn't get the recognition it deserves. Without recognition they have it harder to become known as top NA players and unless they can beat top KR players they don't have very high chances of becoming known.
It can be argued that this leads to players losing incentive which further lowers the quality of the region.
Sounds like your problem is with invite-heavy systems rather than Koreans winning qualifiers...
On May 03 2013 17:35 50bani wrote: Fun fact During Flash vs Parting yesterday I saw only 46k viewers on the Gom stream on Twitch. I think this tournament won't beat that despite better hours, so whoever bet there would be more than 50k concurrents(I think that was Wheat, right?) has a lot of #tagging to do...
I'd bet my non-existent pride that the RO16 will pull in 30,000. With the finals hitting the 45,000-50,000 mark. Does anyone have the figures of the previous Shoutcraft invitational by any chance?
If this was done before WCS NA it wouldnt even get close to 50k but with the way things are right now and people wanting to prove Blizzard it will probably hit 50k for sure.
Truthfully I am not interested in any of the players playing in this tournament. However, I'm tuning in and keeping the stream on simply because I've believed in TotalBiscuit ever since he started in SC2 and enjoy his casting. Best of luck to them and what little support I can give just by watching the stream, I offer wholeheartedly.
I really want to see how well Kane does =) Everytime I see him on some progamers stream he seems very very good but his ATC game against... mouz? Was it mouz? Or Quantic? I already forgot. But nonetheless, that game seemed kinda weak :/ Gogo Kane!
On May 06 2013 03:29 farvacola wrote: Hey Twitch, stop ruining this awesome tournament. Thanks.
I tried to tune in for a bit too today. Saw a bit of PuCk versus ViBe but soon realized it was unwatchable. Watched part of the LoL qualifiers too on Twitch. Unwatchable as well. Luckily the LoL had other outlets like Azubu and Youtube.
Great first day yesterday. Really excited for an america tournament to break 30k+ consecutive viewers when I was watching. Pretty amazing considering a lot of the players in it aren't big names. Hopefully this becomes an annual thing if it continues to be getting good viewer numbers as it'll really help america based players to try harder knowing they have a chance at making a little money while trying to win the bigger tournaments beyond this one.
On May 13 2013 23:14 75 wrote: big news. guess now i have to watch the first hour of shoutcraft because i want to see how idra+TB is. they werent friends before, right? ^^
Been tuning in everyday, thanks for this. I love the interviews with the players before the matches.
Now if only you can do something about the ui during games that would be awesome! Its quite cluttered compared to some and I personally can't stand having the supply at the bottom middle, I much prefer top right since we are so used to looking there for it.
On May 13 2013 23:01 Dr.Sin wrote: Idra will be casting with TB for RO8! Very excited :D! They'll complement each other very well with their combination of showmanship and analysis.
True. After TB has gotten better at analyzing the game it will be awesome when he is joined by Mr. Showmanship...
TB doesn't even have to do any analysis with Idra alongside him, who is pretty much pure analysis. Think this duo will work pretty damn well, their skillsets should dovetail pretty neatly
awww I can't listen to long to Idras voice it somehow wears me down. But a fascinating casting duo in many ways. And more viewers yay, the news atleast seems to be spreading already.
On May 13 2013 23:01 Dr.Sin wrote: Idra will be casting with TB for RO8! Very excited :D! They'll complement each other very well with their combination of showmanship and analysis.
True. After TB has gotten better at analyzing the game it will be awesome when he is joined by Mr. Showmanship...
[Banter, trash talk and psyching out your opposition are encouraged. Online tournaments have often been barren, lacking in personality.
Is this what Sc2 is becoming? Doing anything for the sake of more viewers? Causing artificial drama to increase viewer count is now more important than just the skill of the players? If this is what the SC community wants, I no longer consider myself a part of it.
[Banter, trash talk and psyching out your opposition are encouraged. Online tournaments have often been barren, lacking in personality.
Is this what Sc2 is becoming? Doing anything for the sake of more viewers? Causing artificial drama to increase viewer count is now more important than just the skill of the players? If this is what the SC community wants, I no longer consider myself a part of it.
Seriously? The pregame banter is not only great for viewers, it allows the players to get more attention and to show a bit of personality. It's great for players, and a lot of people find it interesting to listen to. If you don't, you can just mute it or something.
[Banter, trash talk and psyching out your opposition are encouraged. Online tournaments have often been barren, lacking in personality.
Is this what Sc2 is becoming? Doing anything for the sake of more viewers? Causing artificial drama to increase viewer count is now more important than just the skill of the players? If this is what the SC community wants, I no longer consider myself a part of it.
Until you have seen it, don't hate on it. Its more of a chance for usually faceless players to show who they are.
[Banter, trash talk and psyching out your opposition are encouraged. Online tournaments have often been barren, lacking in personality.
Is this what Sc2 is becoming? Doing anything for the sake of more viewers? Causing artificial drama to increase viewer count is now more important than just the skill of the players? If this is what the SC community wants, I no longer consider myself a part of it.
Until you have seen it, don't hate on it. Its more of a chance for usually faceless players to show who they are.
I'm not interested in who the players are, since I don't cheer for anyone whatsoever. I only like watching good games. All this pre-game hype and meet-the-players is meant to create emotional involvement and get bigger revenues. The same principle is applied for example in football, where 'fans' waste huge amounts of money on something that doesn't affect their lives at all.
[Banter, trash talk and psyching out your opposition are encouraged. Online tournaments have often been barren, lacking in personality.
Is this what Sc2 is becoming? Doing anything for the sake of more viewers? Causing artificial drama to increase viewer count is now more important than just the skill of the players? If this is what the SC community wants, I no longer consider myself a part of it.
Boy I bet you must be the life of the party IRL.
And then you complain that players are faceless and you don't feel any emotional investment into their matches.
[Banter, trash talk and psyching out your opposition are encouraged. Online tournaments have often been barren, lacking in personality.
Is this what Sc2 is becoming? Doing anything for the sake of more viewers? Causing artificial drama to increase viewer count is now more important than just the skill of the players? If this is what the SC community wants, I no longer consider myself a part of it.a
Until you have seen it, don't hate on it. Its more of a chance for usually faceless players to show who they are.
I'm not interested in who the players are, since I don't cheer for anyone whatsoever. I only like watching good games. All this pre-game hype and meet-the-players is meant to create emotional involvement and get bigger revenues. The same principle is applied for example in football, where 'fans' waste huge amounts of money on something that doesn't affect their lives at all.
Lol... It does affect their lives, because they choose for it to affect their lives, because they care about the people playing, which is what being a fan of someone is all about.
I just... ok. I'm glad people like you are in the minority.
[Banter, trash talk and psyching out your opposition are encouraged. Online tournaments have often been barren, lacking in personality.
Is this what Sc2 is becoming? Doing anything for the sake of more viewers? Causing artificial drama to increase viewer count is now more important than just the skill of the players? If this is what the SC community wants, I no longer consider myself a part of it.
Until you have seen it, don't hate on it. Its more of a chance for usually faceless players to show who they are.
I'm not interested in who the players are, since I don't cheer for anyone whatsoever. I only like watching good games. All this pre-game hype and meet-the-players is meant to create emotional involvement and get bigger revenues. The same principle is applied for example in football, where 'fans' waste huge amounts of money on something that doesn't affect their lives at all.
I am constantly puzzled by people with this attitude. You seem to hate anything that will make someone some money. If that was true, i hope you didn't buy in to all this starcraft hype and buy the game. Guess what? Blizzard made a ton from it.
If you want to stay emotionally detached from something, i guess that's fine, but i like to think that there are many different levels on which you can enjoy something. Just because someone enjoys it on a different level to you (by getting involved with the personalities of players, rooting for certain players over others etc.) it doesn't make that any less valid.
[Banter, trash talk and psyching out your opposition are encouraged. Online tournaments have often been barren, lacking in personality.
Is this what Sc2 is becoming? Doing anything for the sake of more viewers? Causing artificial drama to increase viewer count is now more important than just the skill of the players? If this is what the SC community wants, I no longer consider myself a part of it.
Until you have seen it, don't hate on it. Its more of a chance for usually faceless players to show who they are.
I'm not interested in who the players are, since I don't cheer for anyone whatsoever. I only like watching good games. All this pre-game hype and meet-the-players is meant to create emotional involvement and get bigger revenues. The same principle is applied for example in football, where 'fans' waste huge amounts of money on something that doesn't affect their lives at all.
I'm not sure the community needs someone like you anyway
And then you complain that players are faceless and you don't feel any emotional investment into their matches.
Check my post history, I never complained about faceless players. I always had the same principle as stated above.
Lol... It does affect their lives, because they choose for it to affect their lives, because they care about the people playing, which is what being a fan of someone is all about.
I just... ok. I'm glad people like you are in the minority.
If your favourite team beats another team, it has no real impact on your life. You had nothing to do with it, and your sentiment of joy is based on nothing.
I consider that what I wrote is rational. If you are glad that people like me are in the minority, I pity you.
I'm not sure the community needs someone like you anyway
That's quite obviously true, it would affect your business.
Lol... It does affect their lives, because they choose for it to affect their lives, because they care about the people playing, which is what being a fan of someone is all about.
I just... ok. I'm glad people like you are in the minority.
If your favourite team beats another team, it has no real impact on your life. You had nothing to do with it, and your sentiment of joy is based on nothing.
I consider that what I wrote is rational. If you are glad that people like me are in the minority, I pity you.
I'm not sure the community needs someone like you anyway
That's quite obviously true, it would affect your business.
Oh, you're one of *those* high horse people. * DURR you're all irrational and dumb for giving a shit about the sport you're watching, bask in my superiority NURR*
Yeah, the community definitely doesn't need you if you're going to be so spiteful for no reason.
If your favourite team beats another team, it has no real impact on your life. You had nothing to do with it, and your sentiment of joy is based on nothing.
I consider that what I wrote is rational. If you are glad that people like me are in the minority, I pity you.
You are actually very wrong, in a philosophical sense. If someone is invested in something, emotionally or financially, then the outcome of that thing has a real and genuine effect on their life. We create in our own minds the world we experience. Your rationality may have some issues in dealing with this, but it is basically a fact. Consider football. I am a huge Nottingham Forest fan. Its a tough life, but when we win, it cheers me up. If i am having a hard time at work or have had an argument with my girlfriend, the outcome of a football match can completely change things. By refusing to 'invest' in this, nothing would be better or worse, i would just have a completely different experience of weekends.
If your favourite team beats another team, it has no real impact on your life. You had nothing to do with it, and your sentiment of joy is based on nothing.
I consider that what I wrote is rational. If you are glad that people like me are in the minority, I pity you.
You are actually very wrong, in a philosophical sense. If someone is invested in something, emotionally or financially, then the outcome of that thing has a real and genuine effect on their life. We create in our own minds the world we experience. Your rationality may have some issues in dealing with this, but it is basically a fact. Consider football. I am a huge Nottingham Forest fan. Its a tough life, but when we win, it cheers me up. If i am having a hard time at work or have had an argument with my girlfriend, the outcome of a football match can completely change things. By refusing to 'invest' in this, nothing would be better or worse, i would just have a completely different experience of weekends.
Your the first one to actually answer my question and not flame me. You bring up a good point, 'We create in our own minds the world we experience'. But you don't actually do anything to make Nottingham Forest a better team, so isn't the joy from one of their wins a void experience?
If your favourite team beats another team, it has no real impact on your life. You had nothing to do with it, and your sentiment of joy is based on nothing.
I consider that what I wrote is rational. If you are glad that people like me are in the minority, I pity you.
You are actually very wrong, in a philosophical sense. If someone is invested in something, emotionally or financially, then the outcome of that thing has a real and genuine effect on their life. We create in our own minds the world we experience. Your rationality may have some issues in dealing with this, but it is basically a fact. Consider football. I am a huge Nottingham Forest fan. Its a tough life, but when we win, it cheers me up. If i am having a hard time at work or have had an argument with my girlfriend, the outcome of a football match can completely change things. By refusing to 'invest' in this, nothing would be better or worse, i would just have a completely different experience of weekends.
Your the first one to actually answer my question and not flame me. You bring up a good point, 'We create in our own minds the world we experience'. But you don't actually do anything to make Nottingham Forest a better team, so isn't the joy from one of their wins a void experience?
Hmm... Not sure if i would call it a void experience. I think it would differ form person to person, depending on their ability (maybe just willingness) to empathize with a player, or group of players. But i would still hold that investment (time, emotional, and money) is enough to create a real sense of connection with events. My main point is that the emotion that is created by this feels real, and therefore it is real. I can remember when Taeja was on a huge winning streak. I spent a whole weekend watching MLG, i paid them to get the thing in high quality. When it was over, i genuinely felt relief and a sense of wellbeing. This lasted probably over a day.I went to work thinking about Taeja and how awesome he is at Starcraft. Could this have happened if i was just watching to appreciate the quality of the games? I'm not sure. I can watch Messi play football and appreciate that it is beautiful and awesome, but it would never beat Forest beating Leeds 7-1 on a rainy horrible muddy pitch last year. Shoutcraft is deliberately designed to appeal to that 'other' way of watching sports, i think. With esports this becomes even more puzzling. Can you empathize with someone through the medium of watching a game of starcraft, or is it the events of the game that people feel this connection with? This is even more relevant at the moment with the whole Idra thing that has happened. His 'personality' (interchangeable with controversy maybe) obviously seem to gain him more viewers.
edit: These are two points of view that often clash in the world of football. The hatred all over my country of Manchester United fans is based on pretty much the same thing. Man U fans probably just want to watch the best team play, but usually people's team are their closest decent local team (or are team that has been 'passed down' through generations of a family). This leads to a surprisingly huge amount of resentment, but i honestly think the whole thing is based on this two ways of looking at sport.
edit: These are two points of view that often clash in the world of football. The hatred all over my country of Manchester United fans is based on pretty much the same thing. Man U fans probably just want to watch the best team play, but usually people's team are their closest decent local team (or are team that has been 'passed down' through generations of a family). This leads to a surprisingly huge amount of resentment, but i honestly think the whole thing is based on this two ways of looking at sport.
I know that sentiment when the local team beats their bigger nemesis. The problem is that emotional involvement in such things also can make you angry. When I go to the local football team's games, I have a blast watching people rage because of the score. That's why I consider rooting for some player or team irrational: you basically watch an event and get angry or joy, having no control over it at all. That's why I made the post about hyping games up and everything.
Anyway, seems like when we started talking rationally, everyone got quiet. It's probably the bad place for this kind of talk, so have a good night.
The reason people don't "talk about it" is because they aren't robots. Humans are emotional beings, if you aren't feeling any emotion when dealing with sports there's probably something wrong with you. We're not wired to be unfeeling machines.
On May 14 2013 02:45 TotalBiscuit wrote: The reason people don't "talk about it" is because they aren't robots. Humans are emotional beings, if you aren't feeling any emotion when dealing with sports there's probably something wrong with you. We're not wired to be unfeeling machines.
No, clearly he's a superior, evolved being, completely rational and unaffected by human imperfections such as emotions...
On May 14 2013 02:45 TotalBiscuit wrote: The reason people don't "talk about it" is because they aren't robots. Humans are emotional beings, if you aren't feeling any emotion when dealing with sports there's probably something wrong with you. We're not wired to be unfeeling machines.
I want to talk about it cos i find it interesting. The guy has what i see as a bit of a strange POV. Its fun to explore that kind of thing. For some people.
I am with him on the annoyance of people vicariously living off the exploits of their team. My workplace is full of such 'banter' and it's obnoxious
I do get an internal, warm fuzzy feeling when HerO wins games, so I agree that you do get something back from the emotional investment in certain players
On May 14 2013 02:30 Kinon wrote: Anyway, seems like when we started talking rationally, everyone got quiet. It's probably the bad place for this kind of talk, so have a good night.
My god but you're just a fucking emotionless robot, aren't you?
On May 14 2013 03:38 Fat_Elephant wrote: TotalBiscuit is single-handedly keeping this game alive.
Dude, credit where credit's due. This is Genna's tourney.