All participants of the European WCS Premier League are known. Over the last five days eight players managed to secure a spot in our qualifiers. Joined by the 24 recently invited ones, these 32 players are going to compete in the first group stage of WCS Europe - divided into 8 groups with 4 players each. The groups for the first ever Premier League now have been drawn. ESL TV's James 'Kaelaris' Carrol and Yoan 'ToD' Merlo are going to commentate these groups (Round of 32) for you free in ad-supported 720p HD. All matches of group stage #1 will be played online and can be seen at ESL TV from April 23rd to May 9th starting at 18 CET.
WCS Europe Season 1 Premier League Groups
The format used will be the Dual Tournament Format, where you need two wins to advance or you will drop after two losses. 16 players will qualify for the second groupstage while 16 players will drop to the Challenger League.
Each group will feature five matches played in Best of three:
Player #1 vs. Player #4 Player #2 vs. Player #3 Winners of these matches will then face each other The losers of the initial matches face each other The loser of the 3rd match and the winner of the 4th match will face each other
I was really hoping for a native English caster with Kaelaris... (absolutely NO offence intended towards ToD - I find him to be a very knowledgeable caster.)
On April 20 2013 04:22 WarrickHunt wrote: Has Apollo attached himself to Dreamhack or something? He seems like the best caster outside of Tastosis atm :s
Still groups look sick, G and H are strongest
Michal Blicharz @mbCARMAC 3m
"We also invited Shaun the Pikachu to cast #wcseu but he had to decline due to DH Open."
On April 20 2013 04:22 WarrickHunt wrote: Has Apollo attached himself to Dreamhack or something? He seems like the best caster outside of Tastosis atm :s
Still groups look sick, G and H are strongest
Yeah, I have nothing particular against Kaelaris or Tod but it would be nice to have some more casters, apollo being one.
On April 20 2013 04:20 TheRooster wrote: I would say that group H looks strongest
you sure? i think group F stronger
Two Zergs vs two Protoss players.
I think H is overall stronger, simply because it has a Korean and two players who have proven themselves to be strong in HotS. I think Nerchio and VortiX will be good still, I'm not sure how good monchi is atm, he just got demolished by Bunny in a showmatch, same goes for SortOf in Group H who was in Korea but we haven't see any games besides the one against Ganzi. Dayshi is strong, but I think MMA is still a bit better.
On April 20 2013 04:29 Bunn wrote: How did Mvp get there? :o
he got invited
there were 3 koreans invited and 1 qualified, but 4 koreans.... not that bad, when you consider, that there are also 4germans and 4 ukrainians in it....
Every group apart from maybe A has at least one player who really makes me want to watch it and A still has Bunny, ForGG and SaSe, so I'll probably still watch it. :D
I'm pretty happy with how it turned out, could probably have been better somehow, but I think it's pretty great as is.
An unexpectedly high number of quality terrans for a European tournament. Obviously the Koreans help but there's some Europeans too. Should be a great event if everything is fine from organisational point of view.
On April 20 2013 04:37 Kompicek wrote: It is pretty important who is playing who in the first match? Anybody knows? For example if Sase plays ForGG first or slivko etc?
On April 20 2013 04:35 3point14 wrote: Stephano seems beatable in HOTS, Gl Grubby! btw how was Grubby qualified? as a participant in the battlenet world finals?
Nobody really knows how people qualified as invites, it seems kinda random sometimes but it's widely accepted that they looked at WCS strongly as their most important factor and then top finishes in other tournaments during 2012 and maybe 2013 but some invites/non-invites still don't add up then.
Maybe they just hand-picked some, too, we don't know, neither Blizzard nor ESL nor MLG have given us even a tiny bit of information on this.
On April 20 2013 04:37 Kompicek wrote: It is pretty important who is playing who in the first match? Anybody knows? For example if Sase plays ForGG first or slivko etc?
ehhhh, maybe read the OP? 1 vs 4 2 vs 3
Sorry i dont know how i could miss that :D i waas maybe too excited :D
On April 20 2013 04:35 3point14 wrote: Stephano seems beatable in HOTS, Gl Grubby! btw how was Grubby qualified? as a participant in the battlenet world finals?
Nobody really knows how people qualified as invites, it seems kinda random sometimes but it's widely accepted that they looked at WCS strongly as their most important factor and then top finishes in other tournaments during 2012 and maybe 2013 but some invites/non-invites still don't add up then.
Maybe they just hand-picked some, too, we don't know, neither Blizzard nor ESL nor MLG have given us even a tiny bit of information on this.
On April 20 2013 04:37 Kompicek wrote: It is pretty important to know who is playing who in the first match? Anybody knows? For example if Sase plays ForGG first or slivko etc?
Hey, I copied the ESL OP for a reason! :p
Each group will feature five matches played in Best of three:
Player #1 vs. Player #4 Player #2 vs. Player #3
So ForGG vs Bunny and sLivko vs SaSe in Group A for example.
On April 20 2013 04:35 3point14 wrote: Stephano seems beatable in HOTS, Gl Grubby! btw how was Grubby qualified? as a participant in the battlenet world finals?
Nobody really knows how people qualified as invites, it seems kinda random sometimes but it's widely accepted that they looked at WCS strongly as their most important factor and then top finishes in other tournaments during 2012 and maybe 2013 but some invites/non-invites still don't add up then.
Maybe they just hand-picked some, too, we don't know, neither Blizzard nor ESL nor MLG have given us even a tiny bit of information on this.
Invites are all arbitrary. When they could they justified it with WCS, when they couldn't they just didn't give an answer.
On April 20 2013 04:29 Bunn wrote: How did Mvp get there? :o
he got invited
there were 3 koreans invited and 1 qualified, but 4 koreans.... not that bad, when you consider, that there are also 4germans and 4 ukrainians in it....
grubby+babyknight with stephano noez i wanted them through... also E, F and H are looking very though i have to say, the others seem to have more of a "two really good and two good"
On April 20 2013 04:45 Koerage wrote: grubby+babyknight with stephano noez i wanted them through... also E, F and H are looking very though i have to say, the others seem to have more of a "two really good and two good"
And since Krass is going to 4-0 the group, the three have to fight over a single spot.
On April 20 2013 04:37 FrostedMiniWheats wrote: I hope the lag doesn't kill MVP ;;
Do we know that he's gonna play from Korea? He might work something out with SK, living in EU during WCS. But on other hand he maybe lose to much training options living in EU, I dunno.
Very happy about Tod as caster! Kaelaris & Tod are a really good combo imho. Kaelaris alone or with someone like Day9 is just too much hype and excitement and Tod is more the analytical, calm antipole. Thumbs up!
i assume that the first player plays the second first and 3rd and 4th play each other first. I might come to a different conclusion in some groups like F or G, which are the hardest imo.
On April 20 2013 04:37 Kompicek wrote: It is pretty important to know who is playing who in the first match? Anybody knows? For example if Sase plays ForGG first or slivko etc?
On April 20 2013 04:35 3point14 wrote: Stephano seems beatable in HOTS, Gl Grubby! btw how was Grubby qualified? as a participant in the battlenet world finals?
Nobody really knows how people qualified as invites, it seems kinda random sometimes but it's widely accepted that they looked at WCS strongly as their most important factor and then top finishes in other tournaments during 2012 and maybe 2013 but some invites/non-invites still don't add up then.
Maybe they just hand-picked some, too, we don't know, neither Blizzard nor ESL nor MLG have given us even a tiny bit of information on this.
On April 20 2013 04:35 3point14 wrote: Stephano seems beatable in HOTS, Gl Grubby! btw how was Grubby qualified? as a participant in the battlenet world finals?
Nobody really knows how people qualified as invites, it seems kinda random sometimes but it's widely accepted that they looked at WCS strongly as their most important factor and then top finishes in other tournaments during 2012 and maybe 2013 but some invites/non-invites still don't add up then.
Maybe they just hand-picked some, too, we don't know, neither Blizzard nor ESL nor MLG have given us even a tiny bit of information on this.
On April 20 2013 04:35 3point14 wrote: Stephano seems beatable in HOTS, Gl Grubby! btw how was Grubby qualified? as a participant in the battlenet world finals?
Nobody really knows how people qualified as invites, it seems kinda random sometimes but it's widely accepted that they looked at WCS strongly as their most important factor and then top finishes in other tournaments during 2012 and maybe 2013 but some invites/non-invites still don't add up then.
Maybe they just hand-picked some, too, we don't know, neither Blizzard nor ESL nor MLG have given us even a tiny bit of information on this.
Keep in mind that the predictions in % are not equal to the predicted outcome of the dual tournament structure Plus, some players will better prepare for specific opponents than others wich will change the predicitons in unknown ways.
On April 20 2013 04:35 3point14 wrote: Stephano seems beatable in HOTS, Gl Grubby! btw how was Grubby qualified? as a participant in the battlenet world finals?
Nobody really knows how people qualified as invites, it seems kinda random sometimes but it's widely accepted that they looked at WCS strongly as their most important factor and then top finishes in other tournaments during 2012 and maybe 2013 but some invites/non-invites still don't add up then.
Maybe they just hand-picked some, too, we don't know, neither Blizzard nor ESL nor MLG have given us even a tiny bit of information on this.
I almost got all the same predictions, but will never go against Dima..and I think babyk over grubby, sry grubby
I think either MaNa or Feast will make it out of Group H for sure, not sure about G, I think it could be anyone falling out there and upsets are possible in A, C, D, E and F easily, too in my opinion. But it gives a somewhat accurate idea for now, although I'm not sure about Strelok topping his group, that seems possible but still also a bit far-fetched.
On April 20 2013 04:59 TumNarDok wrote: Keep in mind that the predictions in % are not equal to the predicted outcome of the dual tournament structure Plus, some players will better prepare for specific opponents than others wich will change the predicitons in unknown ways.
Most of these groups are quite competitive so WTG on that one.
Group A so hard to call, I will root for Bunny. Group B I have a feeling about HasuObs... may be upset Group C Damn how the mighty have fallen Thorzain. Well I like Titan and Ret but its insanely close. Group D Dimaga, so underrated. =( Yeah MVP's got this. Group E You serious about the 25% chance bro on Shuttle? I never bet against Koreans. Group F You are dead right Aligulac. Group G Yes Group H Too close IMHO. MMA got this. Mana should be second.
Stephano and Grubby in the same group should be interesting, I'd actually say that Grubby is the favorite over Stephano right now. Kaelaris and Tod should make this pleasant to watch, looking forward to this! Are VODs going to be free?
Aha, so the theory was correct, this is why ToD forfeited his games vs XlorD in the qualifiers while being up 1-0. Very happy to see him cast! (I'm biased for French accent ofc)
On April 20 2013 04:59 TumNarDok wrote: Keep in mind that the predictions in % are not equal to the predicted outcome of the dual tournament structure Plus, some players will better prepare for specific opponents than others wich will change the predicitons in unknown ways.
SaSe owning GM level Koreans left and right during his 10hr+ practice sessions does not give him any Aligulac points, but tells me he should have a fairly easy time advancing from this group. Though I hope for his sake he's back in Europe when the games are played. Are they played live?
I love the 3 or 4 group of death polls. Maybe we should add them all up for an even more accurate poll!!!!
Definitely think the groups are pretty well-balanced. Not too many where I think two players will obviously come out on top and that's that (except maybe that MVP group......). Really excited for Groups A, E, H though. Love to see Naniwa / Sase / MMA play, especially with such solid players in the groups.
Also, having seen SortOf and Mana play, I definitely think H is the toughest group. I'd say Feast also a possibility of winning the group having seen him play (relatively) consistently in the qualifiers and other matches.
On April 20 2013 05:46 Blargh wrote: I love the 3 or 4 group of death polls. Maybe we should add them all up for an even more accurate poll!!!!
Definitely think the groups are pretty well-balanced. Not too many where I think two players will obviously come out on top and that's that (except maybe that MVP group......). Really excited for Groups A, E, H though. Love to see Naniwa / Sase / MMA play, especially with such solid players in the groups.
Also, having seen SortOf and Mana play, I definitely think H is the toughest group. I'd say Feast also a possibility of winning the group having seen him play (relatively) consistently in the qualifiers and other matches.
they're all the same poll id. it was just people editing their post to move it further up the page
On April 20 2013 05:46 Blargh wrote: I love the 3 or 4 group of death polls. Maybe we should add them all up for an even more accurate poll!!!!
Definitely think the groups are pretty well-balanced. Not too many where I think two players will obviously come out on top and that's that (except maybe that MVP group......). Really excited for Groups A, E, H though. Love to see Naniwa / Sase / MMA play, especially with such solid players in the groups.
Also, having seen SortOf and Mana play, I definitely think H is the toughest group. I'd say Feast also a possibility of winning the group having seen him play (relatively) consistently in the qualifiers and other matches.
they're all the same poll id. it was just people editing their post to move it further up the page
Ya, just teasing ^^
On April 20 2013 05:47 Vertitto wrote: how awasome would it be if no korean moved to the next round ^^
While I severely doubt that any of them except for maybe Shuttle will fail to go through, I think it'd really do well for the EU scene. If the players are able to beat people like MMA and MVP, then I think that would give a lot of European players more enthusiasm for it? Or something like that. Eh, who knows, probably won't happen anyway ^_^.
On April 20 2013 04:59 TumNarDok wrote: Keep in mind that the predictions in % are not equal to the predicted outcome of the dual tournament structure Plus, some players will better prepare for specific opponents than others wich will change the predicitons in unknown ways.
On April 20 2013 05:46 Blargh wrote: I love the 3 or 4 group of death polls. Maybe we should add them all up for an even more accurate poll!!!!
Definitely think the groups are pretty well-balanced. Not too many where I think two players will obviously come out on top and that's that (except maybe that MVP group......). Really excited for Groups A, E, H though. Love to see Naniwa / Sase / MMA play, especially with such solid players in the groups.
Also, having seen SortOf and Mana play, I definitely think H is the toughest group. I'd say Feast also a possibility of winning the group having seen him play (relatively) consistently in the qualifiers and other matches.
they're all the same poll id. it was just people editing their post to move it further up the page
On April 20 2013 05:47 Vertitto wrote: how awasome would it be if no korean moved to the next round ^^
While I severely doubt that any of them except for maybe Shuttle will fail to go through, I think it'd really do well for the EU scene. If the players are able to beat people like MMA and MVP, then I think that would give a lot of European players more enthusiasm for it? Or something like that. Eh, who knows, probably won't happen anyway ^_^.
Well, two mvp koreans that were poised to quallify with ease did not make it having 4 chances. Do not say Euro-only Ro16 is impossible ; )
On April 20 2013 05:32 Zenbrez wrote: I'm amazed people think H is best
What? I am amazed someone thinks anything else ^.^
MMA has been crushing it as of late, Scarlett which have sick good ZvT have said she cannot beat him in practice. For me MMA is the favorite to take the tournament, I hope not, but I am not sure who is going to stop him. Mana might be the best performing foreigner so far in HotS, going 9-2 in ATC against Koreans only recently.
Feast looked solid as hell in the qualifier and SortOf is insanely underrated. The guy beat like 7-8 pro Koreans in succession to grab a spot in last NASL final. In which he btw defeated Hyun 3-0 only a few weeks before Hyun was in the GSL final.
So yeah (cough) I say that it is a pretty good group
I'm expecting a really good run from NaNiwa. Say what you want about his numerous attitude issues, but between his ability to take games off of any Korean in PvT and PvP and the fact that most Zergs are going to die early in the tournament (It's probably true), I think he'll do well. Plus, NaNiwa is the most successful foreigner in a Code S style tournament now that Jinro has retired.
Very nice race distribution, going to be fun to watch this. I wonder if ESL did that when they picked the groups so it's impossible to get more than 2players of the same race in one group. Anyone know?
Wowowowow. These groups are amazing. Do you guys think the Koreans will still pull through the lag? I mean, I can easily see both MMA and ForGG having a hard time. Mvp gets a vote of confindence from me because he is Mvp.
I hate to be that guy but for some reason I feel like something's missing in the lineup. I can't pinpoint what it is. A lot of my favourite players are in. But none of the groups feel like they're super exciting.
On April 20 2013 06:51 Fake)Plants wrote: Wowowowow. These groups are amazing. Do you guys think the Koreans will still pull through the lag? I mean, I can easily see both MMA and ForGG having a hard time. Mvp gets a vote of confindence from me because he is Mvp.
Is ForGG in Korea? He has a ton of games on EU ladder..
Yes ! ToD to commentate ! I just fucking loooove ToD when he comments on european players :p
The groups themselves are preeeeeeetty good,it should be tons of fun to watch it. Btw TL should have some prediction contest about this like they did last time,it could be epic :D
On April 20 2013 06:55 Heartland wrote: I hate to be that guy but for some reason I feel like something's missing in the lineup. I can't pinpoint what it is. A lot of my favourite players are in. But none of the groups feel like they're super exciting.
I feel quite the opposite.
The groups have everything: Good Koreans, new talent, old hard hitters, lots of interesting story lines and great racial distribution and lots of countries represented.
On April 20 2013 06:51 Fake)Plants wrote: Wowowowow. These groups are amazing. Do you guys think the Koreans will still pull through the lag? I mean, I can easily see both MMA and ForGG having a hard time. Mvp gets a vote of confindence from me because he is Mvp.
Is ForGG in Korea? He has a ton of games on EU ladder..
On April 20 2013 05:46 Blargh wrote: I love the 3 or 4 group of death polls. Maybe we should add them all up for an even more accurate poll!!!!
Definitely think the groups are pretty well-balanced. Not too many where I think two players will obviously come out on top and that's that (except maybe that MVP group......). Really excited for Groups A, E, H though. Love to see Naniwa / Sase / MMA play, especially with such solid players in the groups.
Also, having seen SortOf and Mana play, I definitely think H is the toughest group. I'd say Feast also a possibility of winning the group having seen him play (relatively) consistently in the qualifiers and other matches.
they're all the same poll id. it was just people editing their post to move it further up the page
Ya, just teasing ^^
On April 20 2013 05:47 Vertitto wrote: how awasome would it be if no korean moved to the next round ^^
While I severely doubt that any of them except for maybe Shuttle will fail to go through, I think it'd really do well for the EU scene. If the players are able to beat people like MMA and MVP, then I think that would give a lot of European players more enthusiasm for it? Or something like that. Eh, who knows, probably won't happen anyway ^_^.
Well, two mvp koreans that were poised to quallify with ease did not make it having 4 chances. Do not say Euro-only Ro16 is impossible ; )
I do wonder how much Mvp and MMA are going to prepare for their opponents though. This is probably the most important tournament they'll participate in this year, so they can and will prepare much more than the Koreans in the qualifers (who really did not have the ability to do so).
On April 20 2013 06:51 Fake)Plants wrote: Wowowowow. These groups are amazing. Do you guys think the Koreans will still pull through the lag? I mean, I can easily see both MMA and ForGG having a hard time. Mvp gets a vote of confindence from me because he is Mvp.
Is ForGG in Korea? He has a ton of games on EU ladder..
He is in France AFAIK, living in Mill. House
You know right, he's in Marseille with Adel and Dayshi.
On April 20 2013 04:24 DusTerr wrote: I was really hoping for a native English caster with Kaelaris... (absolutely NO offence intended towards ToD - I find him to be a very knowledgeable caster.)
Personally i am pretty happy that they are keeping it European in terms of casters aswell, and i can't think of any other European caster that is a native English speaker aside from Apollo and TB.
On April 20 2013 04:24 DusTerr wrote: I was really hoping for a native English caster with Kaelaris... (absolutely NO offence intended towards ToD - I find him to be a very knowledgeable caster.)
Personally i am pretty happy that they are keeping it European in terms of casters aswell, and i can't think of any other European caster that is a native English speaker aside from Apollo and TB.
i am a bit disappointed not to have apollo casting
i think apollo and kaelaris would have been a great duo
On April 20 2013 04:24 DusTerr wrote: I was really hoping for a native English caster with Kaelaris... (absolutely NO offence intended towards ToD - I find him to be a very knowledgeable caster.)
Personally i am pretty happy that they are keeping it European in terms of casters aswell, and i can't think of any other European caster that is a native English speaker aside from Apollo and TB.
i am a bit disappointed not to have apollo casting
i think apollo and kaelaris would have been a great duo
This caster pairing is announced only for the Ro32, I'm quite certain Apollo will jump in somewhere in the later stages, he's just a bit preoccupied with DreamHack coming up now.
On April 20 2013 07:22 Liquid`Ret wrote: How can anyone think group E is not the group of death?
H has the better Korean Terran, an equally good Protoss and I'm not sure that Kas > Feast and TLO > SortOf, really.
Kas seems like he hasn't hit his stride completely yet while Feast has had a lot of visibility just now and had some results that made heads turn, he just 2-0'd Scarlett today. SortOf returns from training in Korea, I think he can be at least as good as TLO.
On April 20 2013 07:22 Liquid`Ret wrote: How can anyone think group E is not the group of death?
H has the better Korean Terran, an equally good Protoss and I'm not sure that Kas > Feast and TLO > SortOf, really.
Kas seems like he hasn't hit his stride completely yet while Feast has had a lot of visibility just now and had some results that made heads turn, he just 2-0'd Scarlett today. SortOf returns from training in Korea, I think he can be at least as good as TLO.
Basically this. I would put tlo/kas and feast/sortof as quite even, then Mana > Naniwa and MMA > Shuttle. Overall, H has more skilled players, imo. One of the closest groups, where anyone could easily take it, and it seems Aligulac and most people agree.
On April 20 2013 06:55 Heartland wrote: I hate to be that guy but for some reason I feel like something's missing in the lineup. I can't pinpoint what it is. A lot of my favourite players are in. But none of the groups feel like they're super exciting.
For me, I stare at this tournament and see a tournament in which 3/4 of the players have been invited, which takes a lot of the excitement away (not necessarily saying that they are bad). But give it two or three seasons and this feeling of mine will surely go away.
Players of Group E has done not very much in a while. But, then, calling MMA stronger than shuttle is hard to justify based on his results the last year.
On April 20 2013 07:54 m0ck wrote: Players of Group E has done not very much in a long time. But, then, calling MMA stronger than shuttle is hard to justify based on his results the last year.
Uh, what? It's already hard to justify Shuttle being better than someone like Fenix solely based on his resultsin the last year, I don't see how he can come even close to being considered stronger than or as good as MMA based on their respective results.
On April 20 2013 07:54 m0ck wrote: Players of Group E has done not very much in a while. But, then, calling MMA stronger than shuttle is hard to justify based on his results the last year.
MMA has looked better than Shuttle in HotS, even if he hasn't returned to his old peaks. He has done pretty well in the GSTL, and decently in the ATC, whereas Shuttle hasn't really done anything in a LAN setting in HotS IIRC.
On April 20 2013 07:22 Liquid`Ret wrote: How can anyone think group E is not the group of death?
Naniwa and Kas level on HotS is unknown (except Kas being nomatch by ForGG during Acer Team Story Cup), it took 4 qualifiers to Shuttle to qualify, and TLO is zerg... Not the group of death for sure, but still maybe the most unpredictable group.
In group H MaNa and MMA have one of the better achievements in the world since HotS has been released, Feast was one of the best player in the qualifiers, SortOf has been training in Korea.
All groups are really stacked, I can't make say who's gonna go in Ro16, I think lucifron has a really good chance though.
omg thanks for pointing that out, missed that Happy and Hasuobs are in the same group. And don't forget it is casted by Kaelaris, known to get endless games. So I assume they will meet 2 times.
Really excited to see ToD casting more big events. I'm also torn on group D, I want both Socke and Dimaga to make it out but MVP is probably going to take the group.
How is it possible that stephano and grubby are in one group in the vast majority of european major events for quite a long time ??? Maybe statistics tell another story, but it feels like it is like that ;D Sadly Grubby didn't look so good against stephano...
On April 20 2013 07:54 m0ck wrote: Players of Group E has done not very much in a long time. But, then, calling MMA stronger than shuttle is hard to justify based on his results the last year.
Uh, what? It's already hard to justify Shuttle being better than someone like Fenix solely based on his resultsin the last year, I don't see how he can come even close to being considered stronger than or as good as MMA based on their respective results.
I was exaggerating to emphasize just how badly MMA has dropped off, but yeah, I'm not gonna tell you shuttle is the better player for sneaking through the qualifier in the last spot. But has MMA really been doing well in the matches we've seen in HotS? Inconsistent is the best that can be said, I think
The casters are very disappointing to be honest. Both are ok but like the MLG casting crew I think there are better around. I really hope that either in a few months they add better ones or next year they pick a better production. NASL and Dreamhack both have better crews associated with them with bitterdam, frodan and gretorp and for dreamhack apollo and who ever. Like I have nothing against any of the other casters but its just disappointing when you see tastosis in Korea and then everywhere else 2 steps lower in the casting ladder.
Other than the casters the groups look sick and the surprising lack of Koreans just makes it all the more exciting to look at. personally I can't wait and im practicing hard myself to try get into the contender division some time this year.
Geezus man how is it Grubby and Stephano always meet in the early stages of a major tournament. It's getting ridiculous, these guys should be meeting toward the finals but they always end up eliminating each other (usually in stephano's favor) so early on. Bleh.
Hoping for Naniwa and TLO to both make it out of their group but I'd settle for at least just 1 of them :p
I'd say pretty much all the groups should deliver good competition, I'm not seeing too many clear, definitive favorites... Even MMA and MVP could get taken down in the group stages. It'd be an upset, sure, but not as much as say....someone like a Life or Innovation would be. If it was 1 or 2 years ago MVP would be the clear and obvious favorite to take the whole thing by a wide margin..... we'll see here if he can begin to rebuild his reputation as the infallible king of sc2.
On April 20 2013 07:22 Liquid`Ret wrote: How can anyone think group E is not the group of death?
H has the better Korean Terran, an equally good Protoss and I'm not sure that Kas > Feast and TLO > SortOf, really.
Kas seems like he hasn't hit his stride completely yet while Feast has had a lot of visibility just now and had some results that made heads turn, he just 2-0'd Scarlett today. SortOf returns from training in Korea, I think he can be at least as good as TLO.
Basically this. I would put tlo/kas and feast/sortof as quite even, then Mana > Naniwa and MMA > Shuttle. Overall, H has more skilled players, imo. One of the closest groups, where anyone could easily take it, and it seems Aligulac and most people agree.
Shuttle is better than MMA, in my opinion. Also Kas is a terran so therefor he is much stronger than Feast. Naniwa > Mana by far and TLO (at least a little bit) has been pretty much the only zerg able to keep up with all the terrans at the top of the european ladder as of late...
On April 20 2013 07:22 Liquid`Ret wrote: How can anyone think group E is not the group of death?
H has the better Korean Terran, an equally good Protoss and I'm not sure that Kas > Feast and TLO > SortOf, really.
Kas seems like he hasn't hit his stride completely yet while Feast has had a lot of visibility just now and had some results that made heads turn, he just 2-0'd Scarlett today. SortOf returns from training in Korea, I think he can be at least as good as TLO.
Basically this. I would put tlo/kas and feast/sortof as quite even, then Mana > Naniwa and MMA > Shuttle. Overall, H has more skilled players, imo. One of the closest groups, where anyone could easily take it, and it seems Aligulac and most people agree.
Shuttle is better than MMA, in my opinion.
Ever watched him play tvt?
On April 20 2013 20:42 jiberish wrote: WTF where is apollo casting?
Dreamhack. I guess after that he will cast a little WCS too.
I allways like the aligulac predictions. But i do not understand how Sase/Slivko is 2nd in % but does not go threw to next round. Could someone plz explain? thx!
On April 20 2013 20:41 Liquid`Ret wrote:Also Kas is a terran so therefor he is much stronger than Feast
What kinda logic is this?
On April 20 2013 20:41 Liquid`Ret wrote:Naniwa > Mana by far
Not sure about that.Haven't seen Naniwa play in HotS but Mana is pretty good.He's 9-2 in Acer Teamstory Cup beating Hyun,Apoclypse,Center,HwangSin,Miya,Ryung,Heart and Crank.
I would argue that he is the best foreigner right now.
I allways like the aligulac predictions. But i do not understand how Sase/Slivko is 2nd in % but does not go threw to next round. Could someone plz explain? thx!
Because Bunny is supposed to be able to beat both, but since Bunny gets an insta-loss due ForGG's massive TvT rating, Bunny only needs to mess up once to be out, where Slivko/Sase can mess up against eachother and still go through because they don't start at as a big a disadvantage as Bunny.
Covered in our FAQ as well
What people sometimes see when predicting single elimination brackets is that the player with the largest probability of winning is not predicted to win in the median results section.
The reason this happens becomes clear with a small thought experiment. Suppose a player called Alan has a rating of 2000 and he finds himself on one side of a 16-man bracket together with seven other players rated 1999. On the other side of the bracket only one player showed up (Brian). He is also rated 1999, and now he has a bye all the way to the finals.
So who is most likely to win this tournament? Is it Brian or Alan? Well, it's Brian actually. He has a 50% of beating any of the seven 1999-rated players that could come out of Alan's subbracket, and he has a slightly smaller probability (49.X%) of beating Alan, if he wins. So overall Brian's chances of winning are slightly less than 50%. On the other hand, Alan has to win four matches where he is the slight favourite in each of them. That amounts to a probability of slightly more than 12.5%. So clearly Brian is most likely to win.
The way the median results work, however, is to take the least surprising result in each match. Since Alan is favoured against each player he meets, the least surprising result for each match he plays is that he wins. Thus, the median result is that Alan wins the tournament by narrowly edging out each match he plays.
In summary, you can see such discrepancies if the distribution of skill on both sides of the brackets are uneven. The example above was extreme, but this is not such an uncommon phenomenon.
I would definitely recommend to pay more attention to the probabilities than the median results if you are unsure.
I allways like the aligulac predictions. But i do not understand how Sase/Slivko is 2nd in % but does not go threw to next round. Could someone plz explain? thx!
Because Bunny is supposed to be able to beat both, but since Bunny gets an insta-loss due ForGG's massive TvT rating, Bunny only needs to mess up once to be out, where Slivko/Sase can mess up against eachother and still go through because they don't start at as a big a disadvantage as Bunny.
What people sometimes see when predicting single elimination brackets is that the player with the largest probability of winning is not predicted to win in the median results section.
The reason this happens becomes clear with a small thought experiment. Suppose a player called Alan has a rating of 2000 and he finds himself on one side of a 16-man bracket together with seven other players rated 1999. On the other side of the bracket only one player showed up (Brian). He is also rated 1999, and now he has a bye all the way to the finals.
So who is most likely to win this tournament? Is it Brian or Alan? Well, it's Brian actually. He has a 50% of beating any of the seven 1999-rated players that could come out of Alan's subbracket, and he has a slightly smaller probability (49.X%) of beating Alan, if he wins. So overall Brian's chances of winning are slightly less than 50%. On the other hand, Alan has to win four matches where he is the slight favourite in each of them. That amounts to a probability of slightly more than 12.5%. So clearly Brian is most likely to win.
The way the median results work, however, is to take the least surprising result in each match. Since Alan is favoured against each player he meets, the least surprising result for each match he plays is that he wins. Thus, the median result is that Alan wins the tournament by narrowly edging out each match he plays.
In summary, you can see such discrepancies if the distribution of skill on both sides of the brackets are uneven. The example above was extreme, but this is not such an uncommon phenomenon.
I would definitely recommend to pay more attention to the probabilities than the median results if you are unsure.
On April 20 2013 21:43 Garnet wrote: Only 2 casters?
How about you read about it before comlaining? The groups are played at different days and the games one after another. It also does not exclude people streaming in other languages. I don't know for sure, but usually ESL lets people cast in different languages too.
I'm gonna make a bold prediction - all terrans will go through to the next round. This is not balance whining, just a not-so-unreasonable expectation based on recent results and the composition of the groups! I have doubts about Bunny, but i'm betting on him continuing his great performance.
On April 20 2013 07:22 Liquid`Ret wrote: How can anyone think group E is not the group of death?
H has the better Korean Terran, an equally good Protoss and I'm not sure that Kas > Feast and TLO > SortOf, really.
Kas seems like he hasn't hit his stride completely yet while Feast has had a lot of visibility just now and had some results that made heads turn, he just 2-0'd Scarlett today. SortOf returns from training in Korea, I think he can be at least as good as TLO.
Basically this. I would put tlo/kas and feast/sortof as quite even, then Mana > Naniwa and MMA > Shuttle. Overall, H has more skilled players, imo. One of the closest groups, where anyone could easily take it, and it seems Aligulac and most people agree.
Shuttle is better than MMA, in my opinion. Also Kas is a terran so therefor he is much stronger than Feast. Naniwa > Mana by far and TLO (at least a little bit) has been pretty much the only zerg able to keep up with all the terrans at the top of the european ladder as of late...
Group E is for sure the group of death
How is Naniwa > Mana by far in Hots? Mana looks like a beast so far in ATC and Naniwa has not shown anything yet. I know he is top 100 GM in korea but ladder is ladder and Mana already proved himself in tournaments. Not saying Mana is definetly better or anything, but Naniwa > Mana by far? I dunno man :D.
lol @ the biggest tournament in both NA and EU having less good casters than Code A. would have really liked to see Apollo be a main caster (and i don't like Kaelaris, but apparently other people do so that's neither here nor there).
and whyyy does Grubby have to be in the same group as Stephano again <.< i suppose there's a decent chance they'll both make it out though.
nice, cant wait for the start as many others i expected apollo to be the second caster,too but i think ToD is a great choice, i really like him as a caster !
is he moving to cologne then ? or will it be a skype cast for the online round?
On April 20 2013 21:50 monsta wrote: i like kaelaris but na will get much better caster :/ kinda sux
Will they? Is anything announced regarding that yet? If NA simply gets Axeltoss and Axslav, I'll gladly stick with Kaelaris and ToD.
Everyone has there favorites.. I personally think kaelaris, axeltoss, axslav, d9, husky, incontrol, tastosis, the pulsecrew etcetcetc are all good casters... I do not think any of these would have a negative impact on a broadcast of the WCS tournament..
On April 20 2013 22:35 katzenman wrote: nice, cant wait for the start as many others i expected apollo to be the second caster,too but i think ToD is a great choice, i really like him as a caster !
is he moving to cologne then ? or will it be a skype cast for the online round?
He is moving to Cologne, according to twitter:
Yoan Merlo @ToDsc2 17h
@followcassandra @Kaelaris I'll be in Germany the whole time, i'll cast the first groupstages and some playoffs
On April 20 2013 22:35 katzenman wrote: nice, cant wait for the start as many others i expected apollo to be the second caster,too but i think ToD is a great choice, i really like him as a caster !
is he moving to cologne then ? or will it be a skype cast for the online round?
He is moving to Cologne, according to twitter:
Yoan Merlo @ToDsc2 17h
@followcassandra @Kaelaris I'll be in Germany the whole time, i'll cast the first groupstages and some playoffs
On April 20 2013 07:22 Liquid`Ret wrote: How can anyone think group E is not the group of death?
H has the better Korean Terran, an equally good Protoss and I'm not sure that Kas > Feast and TLO > SortOf, really.
Kas seems like he hasn't hit his stride completely yet while Feast has had a lot of visibility just now and had some results that made heads turn, he just 2-0'd Scarlett today. SortOf returns from training in Korea, I think he can be at least as good as TLO.
Basically this. I would put tlo/kas and feast/sortof as quite even, then Mana > Naniwa and MMA > Shuttle. Overall, H has more skilled players, imo. One of the closest groups, where anyone could easily take it, and it seems Aligulac and most people agree.
Shuttle is better than MMA, in my opinion. Also Kas is a terran so therefor he is much stronger than Feast. Naniwa > Mana by far and TLO (at least a little bit) has been pretty much the only zerg able to keep up with all the terrans at the top of the european ladder as of late...
Group E is for sure the group of death
How is Naniwa > Mana by far in Hots? Mana looks like a beast so far in ATC and Naniwa has not shown anything yet. I know he is top 100 GM in korea but ladder is ladder and Mana already proved himself in tournaments. Not saying Mana is definetly better or anything, but Naniwa > Mana by far? I dunno man :D.
On April 20 2013 07:22 Liquid`Ret wrote: How can anyone think group E is not the group of death?
H has the better Korean Terran, an equally good Protoss and I'm not sure that Kas > Feast and TLO > SortOf, really.
Kas seems like he hasn't hit his stride completely yet while Feast has had a lot of visibility just now and had some results that made heads turn, he just 2-0'd Scarlett today. SortOf returns from training in Korea, I think he can be at least as good as TLO.
Basically this. I would put tlo/kas and feast/sortof as quite even, then Mana > Naniwa and MMA > Shuttle. Overall, H has more skilled players, imo. One of the closest groups, where anyone could easily take it, and it seems Aligulac and most people agree.
Shuttle is better than MMA, in my opinion. Also Kas is a terran so therefor he is much stronger than Feast. Naniwa > Mana by far and TLO (at least a little bit) has been pretty much the only zerg able to keep up with all the terrans at the top of the european ladder as of late...
Group E is for sure the group of death
How is Naniwa > Mana by far in Hots? Mana looks like a beast so far in ATC and Naniwa has not shown anything yet. I know he is top 100 GM in korea but ladder is ladder and Mana already proved himself in tournaments. Not saying Mana is definetly better or anything, but Naniwa > Mana by far? I dunno man :D.
2-0 vs Bobson 2-0 vs HobBe 2-0 vs Daz 2-0 vs StarNaN 2-0 vs RunA 2-0 vs oZone 2-0 vs dsMulti 2-0 vs Fruktig 2-0 vs Forsen 3-0 vs SjoW 3-0 vs Bischu 3-0 vs StarNaN 3-0 vs MorroW
On April 21 2013 00:00 Champloo wrote: Everyone who wants to see the studio where the WCS offline rounds will be played can tune in to the EPS right now.
At least on TakeTV stream, don't know if Kaelaris will also be in the studio.
hmm i thought so first too, but afaik they are building a new studio for wcs ?!
On April 21 2013 00:00 Champloo wrote: Everyone who wants to see the studio where the WCS offline rounds will be played can tune in to the EPS right now.
At least on TakeTV stream, don't know if Kaelaris will also be in the studio.
hmm i thought so first too, but afaik they are building a new studio for wcs ?!
thats their eventstudio where eps is played right now. AFAIK the offline part of wcs will be played there., but they will do changes for wcs. and they are building a new one for group play.
found Michal Blicharz @mbCARMAC 19h
"We're starting off #wcseu in a newly-refurbished casting studio for ro32. We're redecorating it entirely this weekend."
"For ro16 and the finals #wcseu moves to ESL TV's events studio which will also be revamped for SC2 specifically."
On April 20 2013 07:22 Liquid`Ret wrote: How can anyone think group E is not the group of death?
H has the better Korean Terran, an equally good Protoss and I'm not sure that Kas > Feast and TLO > SortOf, really.
Kas seems like he hasn't hit his stride completely yet while Feast has had a lot of visibility just now and had some results that made heads turn, he just 2-0'd Scarlett today. SortOf returns from training in Korea, I think he can be at least as good as TLO.
Basically this. I would put tlo/kas and feast/sortof as quite even, then Mana > Naniwa and MMA > Shuttle. Overall, H has more skilled players, imo. One of the closest groups, where anyone could easily take it, and it seems Aligulac and most people agree.
Shuttle is better than MMA, in my opinion. Also Kas is a terran so therefor he is much stronger than Feast. Naniwa > Mana by far and TLO (at least a little bit) has been pretty much the only zerg able to keep up with all the terrans at the top of the european ladder as of late...
Group E is for sure the group of death
How is Naniwa > Mana by far in Hots? Mana looks like a beast so far in ATC and Naniwa has not shown anything yet. I know he is top 100 GM in korea but ladder is ladder and Mana already proved himself in tournaments. Not saying Mana is definetly better or anything, but Naniwa > Mana by far? I dunno man :D.
Nani is 30-0 in two recent Swedish Hots cups.
That doesn't mean jack shit when Mana has destroyed both Quantic and Axiom all by himself. Whilst I do think that Naniwa is better than Mana, at least skill wise (he hasn't done very much for almost a year, though), Mana is more proven in HotS versus good-good opponents.
On April 20 2013 07:22 Liquid`Ret wrote: How can anyone think group E is not the group of death?
H has the better Korean Terran, an equally good Protoss and I'm not sure that Kas > Feast and TLO > SortOf, really.
Kas seems like he hasn't hit his stride completely yet while Feast has had a lot of visibility just now and had some results that made heads turn, he just 2-0'd Scarlett today. SortOf returns from training in Korea, I think he can be at least as good as TLO.
Basically this. I would put tlo/kas and feast/sortof as quite even, then Mana > Naniwa and MMA > Shuttle. Overall, H has more skilled players, imo. One of the closest groups, where anyone could easily take it, and it seems Aligulac and most people agree.
Shuttle is better than MMA, in my opinion. Also Kas is a terran so therefor he is much stronger than Feast. Naniwa > Mana by far and TLO (at least a little bit) has been pretty much the only zerg able to keep up with all the terrans at the top of the european ladder as of late...
Group E is for sure the group of death
How is Naniwa > Mana by far in Hots? Mana looks like a beast so far in ATC and Naniwa has not shown anything yet. I know he is top 100 GM in korea but ladder is ladder and Mana already proved himself in tournaments. Not saying Mana is definetly better or anything, but Naniwa > Mana by far? I dunno man :D.
Nani is 30-0 in two recent Swedish Hots cups.
That doesn't mean jack shit when Mana has destroyed both Quantic and Axiom all by himself. Whilst I do think that Naniwa is better than Mana, at least skill wise (he hasn't done very much for almost a year, though), Mana is more proven in HotS versus good-good opponents.
I was just replying to your question about results outside of ladder, nothing else.
On April 20 2013 07:22 Liquid`Ret wrote: How can anyone think group E is not the group of death?
H has the better Korean Terran, an equally good Protoss and I'm not sure that Kas > Feast and TLO > SortOf, really.
Kas seems like he hasn't hit his stride completely yet while Feast has had a lot of visibility just now and had some results that made heads turn, he just 2-0'd Scarlett today. SortOf returns from training in Korea, I think he can be at least as good as TLO.
Basically this. I would put tlo/kas and feast/sortof as quite even, then Mana > Naniwa and MMA > Shuttle. Overall, H has more skilled players, imo. One of the closest groups, where anyone could easily take it, and it seems Aligulac and most people agree.
Shuttle is better than MMA, in my opinion. Also Kas is a terran so therefor he is much stronger than Feast. Naniwa > Mana by far and TLO (at least a little bit) has been pretty much the only zerg able to keep up with all the terrans at the top of the european ladder as of late...
Group E is for sure the group of death
How is Naniwa > Mana by far in Hots? Mana looks like a beast so far in ATC and Naniwa has not shown anything yet. I know he is top 100 GM in korea but ladder is ladder and Mana already proved himself in tournaments. Not saying Mana is definetly better or anything, but Naniwa > Mana by far? I dunno man :D.
Nani is 30-0 in two recent Swedish Hots cups.
That doesn't mean jack shit when Mana has destroyed both Quantic and Axiom all by himself. Whilst I do think that Naniwa is better than Mana, at least skill wise (he hasn't done very much for almost a year, though), Mana is more proven in HotS versus good-good opponents.
I was just replying to your question about results outside of ladder, nothing else.
On April 21 2013 00:00 Champloo wrote: Everyone who wants to see the studio where the WCS offline rounds will be played can tune in to the EPS right now.
At least on TakeTV stream, don't know if Kaelaris will also be in the studio.
hmm i thought so first too, but afaik they are building a new studio for wcs ?!
thats their eventstudio where eps is played right now. AFAIK the offline part of wcs will be played there., but they will do changes for wcs. and they are building a new one for group play.
found Michal Blicharz @mbCARMAC 19h
"We're starting off #wcseu in a newly-refurbished casting studio for ro32. We're redecorating it entirely this weekend."
"For ro16 and the finals #wcseu moves to ESL TV's events studio which will also be revamped for SC2 specifically."
thank you , so i suppose they will brand one of the smaller caster-only studios for wcs as well as the event studio.
On April 21 2013 00:00 Champloo wrote: Everyone who wants to see the studio where the WCS offline rounds will be played can tune in to the EPS right now.
At least on TakeTV stream, don't know if Kaelaris will also be in the studio.
hmm i thought so first too, but afaik they are building a new studio for wcs ?!
thats their eventstudio where eps is played right now. AFAIK the offline part of wcs will be played there., but they will do changes for wcs. and they are building a new one for group play.
found Michal Blicharz @mbCARMAC 19h
"We're starting off #wcseu in a newly-refurbished casting studio for ro32. We're redecorating it entirely this weekend."
"For ro16 and the finals #wcseu moves to ESL TV's events studio which will also be revamped for SC2 specifically."
Sounds like ESL is taking their job seriously, really good to hear.
Should really be pointed out, good guys (and girls) ESL team: Are being told that the European event is being held through them in Germany, get an Englishman and a French to cast it.
This tournament should be real good. There has been a lot of whining about WCS in general, but having a tournament in Europe that mimics the GSL with mostly European top players is amazing IMO. And I don't have to constantly look over my shoulder to see if my Boss is watching XD
On April 22 2013 20:38 freerolll wrote: why do I dont find anything about challenger league Im actualy more interested to see wich talent there is in europe I didnt know about
Haha, only two 2-0's predicted by Aligulac, one of them being Stephano beating Grubby 2-0. Seems like Grubby never catches a break haha. Good luck to all the players tomorrow!
EPT![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/FlYHJet.jpg)
ForGG
SaSe
sLivko
and aligulac predictions
Hoping for Ret/Socke/TLO/Grubby to make it through!
he'll be hung over and drunk...
