What are your bets guys ? Mine are: 1.Stephano, TaeJa, Fraer 2.MaNa, SaSe, Bly 3.Nerchio, TLO, Dimaga 4.NaNiwa, HerO, T-Funk Can't wait for this epicness to unfold, let's just wait patiently
EDIT : Im ready to remove this thread if a more well-made one comes on, just wanted to give you the info as fast as possible
Looks nice, group 4 looks the strongest but group 1 is also dangerous with both the top players at the event. Shame that Polt couldn't make due to GSTL. Well better this way than him showing up as Obsidian like he did LSC2 this weekend.
Tough group for fraer, but at least there's Sjow. Way too many Terrans for my liking though, he would have been much more comfortable in a Protoss/Zerg group.
Group 4 seems to be quite stacked while Group 2 is caster hell, or group 3, if you don't like PvP and BlyvP.
Sad, that Polt, Monster and Genius aren´t there, I ws hoping for a more even foreign/korean-distribution. The way it looks right now, my predictions are:
Group 1: Taeja, Stephano, Fraer Sjow will probably be beaten up by all other members, if he doesn´t get back in IEM-winning shape. Taeja should advance first and after that there is the possibility of a Fraer>STC>Stephano>Fraer - tie, but I´m giving Stephano a little edge over the other ones. STC and Fraer are about even, but Faer won last time, so I give the edge to him. Ofc. every member of the first 4 has a chance of beating every other, so no one is really save here.
Group 2: 4 Protoss and Bly = not possibly predictable. Hoping for MaNa and Socke, but tbh. it could be anyone in this Group.
Group 3: Nerchio wins, Targa has a slight edge over TLO/monchi. Dimaga has looked in pretty bad shape lately, I hope he can make a comeback here, but I don´t believe he can atm..
Group 4: Another brutal group, can´t really decide between this and group one for the hardest. HerO should be favored, because Nani´s PvP looked a bit off lately. However, I´m giving Nani the advantadge over both T´s. The TvT is pretty even; I´m giving ThorZaiN a higher chance to beat one of the protosses, but IMHO he has as well a higher risk of losing to Ret (Who I don´t see being a factor for the group winning). Think I´going with ForGG in this one, but hoping for ThorZaiN.
honestly, group 1 is just as scary as group 4. the only player that stands out negativly atm is SjoW imo. Everyone else in both groups is pretty scary. I think Ret has a pretty hard time again :/
These groups are crazy. Weak links feel like it's Monchi, Starnan, Ret, Fraer and Sjow who feel like they're going to get murdered. But a lot depends also on ThorZains form. Hero is also really upanddown. But it's looking really fun and exciting, makes me more inclined to take the trip up there.
On November 13 2012 04:44 Heartland wrote: These groups are crazy. Weak links feel like it's Monchi, Starnan, Ret, Fraer and Sjow who feel like they're going to get murdered. But a lot depends also on ThorZains form. Hero is also really upanddown. But it's looking really fun and exciting, makes me more inclined to take the trip up there.
Why do people still underrate fraer? He got top 4 and top 8 and beat three Koreans at the two DH events he went to, he surely isn't "going to get murdered"!
On November 13 2012 04:44 Heartland wrote: These groups are crazy. Weak links feel like it's Monchi, Starnan, Ret, Fraer and Sjow who feel like they're going to get murdered. But a lot depends also on ThorZains form. Hero is also really upanddown. But it's looking really fun and exciting, makes me more inclined to take the trip up there.
Why do people still underrate fraer? He got top 4 and top 8 and beat three Koreans at the two DH events he went to, he surely isn't "going to get murdered"!
It's all relative to the groups of course, and I might be wrong about Fraer, but he's one of those people who have never stood out to me. Might be my own ignorance of course, but he does look like one of the weaker links in the lineup.
On November 13 2012 04:44 Heartland wrote: These groups are crazy. Weak links feel like it's Monchi, Starnan, Ret, Fraer and Sjow who feel like they're going to get murdered. But a lot depends also on ThorZains form. Hero is also really upanddown. But it's looking really fun and exciting, makes me more inclined to take the trip up there.
Why do people still underrate fraer? He got top 4 and top 8 and beat three Koreans at the two DH events he went to, he surely isn't "going to get murdered"!
On November 13 2012 04:44 Heartland wrote: These groups are crazy. Weak links feel like it's Monchi, Starnan, Ret, Fraer and Sjow who feel like they're going to get murdered. But a lot depends also on ThorZains form. Hero is also really upanddown. But it's looking really fun and exciting, makes me more inclined to take the trip up there.
Why do people still underrate fraer? He got top 4 and top 8 and beat three Koreans at the two DH events he went to, he surely isn't "going to get murdered"!
Btw., has Fraer ever lost to a korean offline? I think he got eliminated by Bly/Dimaga respectively, so he should be undefeated against koreans if I am not wrong.
These groups are...amazing...Group 4 is deathly, 3 almost all zerg, 2 almost all protoss, and 1 probably going to have the event winner (I'm mind & heart say Stephano). I won't miss this event for sure.
On November 13 2012 04:44 Heartland wrote: These groups are crazy. Weak links feel like it's Monchi, Starnan, Ret, Fraer and Sjow who feel like they're going to get murdered. But a lot depends also on ThorZains form. Hero is also really upanddown. But it's looking really fun and exciting, makes me more inclined to take the trip up there.
Why do people still underrate fraer? He got top 4 and top 8 and beat three Koreans at the two DH events he went to, he surely isn't "going to get murdered"!
Btw., has Fraer ever lost to a korean offline? I think he got eliminated by Bly/Dimaga respectively, so he should be undefeated against koreans if I am not wrong.
i don't know about all the fuss about group 4, sure it's really strong, but group 1 is the real star imo. groups 2&3 are a lot weaker, but still good in terms of players of course. but yeah, 4 of one race won't make for the most fun groups to watch, especially when the 4 players aren't T in either group t.t
Taeja, Ret and Stephano are some of my favorite players, hope they do well, really looking forward to this. really want to see sase and hero play as well. great tournament lineup!
Wow, I would say a good all round job of dividing up the groups. A bit disappointing to see the double TL in group four, but nothing to get up in arms about.
1. Taeja, Stephano, STC 2. Mana, Sase, Hoping for Socke, but probably Bly 3. Nerchio, Dimaga, TLO 4. Ohhh this is the hard one, If I had money on it, Hero, Naniwa, Thorzain, but really hoping Ret makes it.
On November 13 2012 05:29 Waxangel wrote: I wonder who would reasonably be the best player that could come out of BYOC
Maybe elfi or someone else around that level? Possible that Snute tries to qualify, or maybe even someone like TitaN, Sage or LiveZerg coming over from MoW.
On November 13 2012 05:27 LuckyFool wrote: fraer isn't gonna get murdered, sjow is.
why is he seeded into a group anyway? did he win a qualifier or something? seems strange.
He got to RO8 in the first event, DreamHack Stockholm, and got past the first group stage at DH Summer (:D)which was enough to put him into groups after Polt and Monster dropped out.
group 1: i think taeja should be able to win this but given stephano's recent performance, stephano will probably take this. group 2: im rooting for mana or sase. group 3: rooting for tlo but i think nechio will take this group. group 4: rooting for hero but i think he is tied with naniwa.
On November 13 2012 05:29 Waxangel wrote: I wonder who would reasonably be the best player that could come out of BYOC
If you mean the best, that's probably VortiX or a Code A/S korean. But a lot of EU also have a shot. DH winter is traditionally a big competitions for all teams so the BYOC could well be more interesting than the actual tournament.
im already seeing elfi getting in group 4 and snute in 1... hello stacked groups! nice to see pretty much the top of europe compete here, with some koreans as well, should be a liquid member to win, or stephano cuz he's... well... stephano
A lot of really good players here. I think it's going to come down to Taeja/ForGG/stephano. MaNa, Nerchio and HerO could mess up those predictions though since I don't really know their current shape. TheSTC doesn't seem too hot ATM.
I would really like to see TLO go far but there's so many gosus, this tournament is stacked. TLO is like 1mm under the ceiling that separates the very very good players from the top pros. Time to break free Dario !
On November 13 2012 05:29 Waxangel wrote: I wonder who would reasonably be the best player that could come out of BYOC
The only thing I know is one of the players who will score a spot from the BYOC will be jookto he's the exact kind of Korean zerg who will take a spot from the foreigners.
On November 13 2012 05:51 ChApFoU wrote: I would really like to see TLO go far but there's so many gosus, this tournament is stacked. TLO is like 1mm under the ceiling that separates the very very good players from the top pros. Time to break free Dario !
1- Taeja, Stephano, STC 2- Mana, Socke, Bly 3- Nerchio, TLO, Targa. 4- ForGG, HerO, Ret (maybe, if he won't lose 100 drones a game to helions)
I'd say group 4 may be the group of death. But mostly because everyone in that group is about the same skill atm, except ForGG who is really good now. HerO - very good, but not doing that well lately, not very stable play too. Ret - not playing very well lately too. Thorzain - not stable as well, either hit or miss. Naniwa - a bit more stable play, but far from perfect.
Also I don't like how there's 4 toss players in group 2 and 4 zergs in group 3.
On November 13 2012 04:23 -Strider- wrote: Holy group 4
I've been warned for posts like this, and I even edited the thing I was quoting
Sad that Thorzain got such a difficult group, and that Polt (and I believe a couple of other Koreans?) couldn't make it, but still hyped, Dreamhack is awesome. ^_^
Nerchio has a great group considering he is known for being pretty good at ZvZ. Ill be interested to see how group two plays out as I don't really follow any of those players, so for me they are all unknowns which adds some interest. I know that they are established player, but just saying for me as I watch this tournament.
Stepano - HerO finals 3-2 for HerO if it's BO5, or 4-3 if BO7 Calling it right now, Liquid-EG DH winter finals all over again.
( Actually HerO - Puma was probably the most intense finals I've ever watched emotionally talking, EG - Liquid, HerO countering the 1-1-1 of Puma perfectly on dual site, such awesome finals, so many nerd chills. )
Nice lineup. Group 4 is stacked as shit tho haha that'll be a great group to watch. Should see TZ, stephano, Taeja plus a wildcard in the finals. maybe nani, im biased but he played pretty well at Lonestar Clash on the weekend
On November 13 2012 06:58 GregMandel wrote: Stepano - HerO finals 3-2 for HerO if it's BO5, or 4-3 if BO7 Calling it right now, Liquid-EG DH winter finals all over again.
( Actually HerO - Puma was probably the most intense finals I've ever watched emotionally talking, EG - Liquid, HerO countering the 1-1-1 of Puma perfectly on dual site, such awesome finals, so many nerd chills. )
If HerO could repeat his Dreamhack performance of last year I would be so happy, so many good games and the victory at the end.
Quite many swedes in the groups although there probably could've been some better players. Like Naama, ELFITTAJA, Satiini or Serral. It's very nice for the swedish home audience though. GL HF !
Pretty crazy groups I don't think anyone can predict even the finals or the winner of this. So many players that could win a certain match up and players.
Can't think of a single NA player that could compete amongst these groups. I always watch ForGG's stream. He has an exciting, aggressive style. He took some games off Taeja in a finals of a tournament recently. Would be nice to see him take a whole tournament for once.
On November 13 2012 07:24 609_uu wrote: Quite many swedes in the groups although there probably could've been some better players. Like Naama, ELFITTAJA, Satiini or Serral. It's very nice for the swedish home audience though. GL HF !
Then they should have been at the previous events and earned qualification points/spots.
On November 13 2012 07:49 Dr. Steve Brule wrote: not a single NA player...
There are no players from any China, SEA and South America as well. I don't see a problem. The only "problem" is that there are no koreans from non-korean teams. The only player who qualified - Polt - decided not to attend. I would love to see Life, Rain or Leenock in Europe.
i'm only going to be watching groups 1 and 4. not because of the players, just because i can't stand pvz zvzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz and coinflips
On November 13 2012 04:23 -Strider- wrote: Holy group 4
Pretty much, I guess I know which tournament I'll follow more closely between IEM and Dreamhack (though the fact that IEM is in Singapore really makes me wanna watch), group 4 is just way too good.
@nimdil: You won't see Rain or any kespa player at any non-mlg event anytime soon, mlg has exclusive rights and I highly doubt that they will give up their "kespa factor" any time soon.
My perspective Group 1 Stephano has three terrans in his group and one protoss which can give him a small favor, also because he's doing well lately. Taeja is for me the favored over TheSTC, Fraer and Sjow. While although Fraer has the same small favored as Stephano he will not be able to beat TheSTC. Looking at SjoW lately I don't think he's able to beat even one of the players, maybe taking one game.
Group 2 At first I said Bly first place, but I think Mana won't let him do that. StarNaN is doing well lately and will beat both Socke and SaSe in PvP, while I think I will give Mana a small favor over StarNaN, but had to think three times before saying. Bly will have an more easier shout because he just has to practice against Protoss, although he only had a few successes lately.
Group 3 Looking at the results Monchi did well against Nerchio in the past, but even when Nerchio losses again this time will favor the group, cause his ZvZ is mighty enough to take down both TLO and Targa. Having watched some of TLO's games lately, I think I will favor Targa above TLO for this tournament. And Dimaga might take a game, but won't win a single bo3 unfortunately, cause he's a great guy.
Group 4 Seeing the luck that Ret doesn't have in all tournaments I put him last, but he's still a great player, I just can't look in his practicescheme. Thorzain will beat both Ret, Naniwa and ForGG only losing to Hero. But Hero will lose to both Naniwa and ForGG, while ForGG beats Ret and NaNiwa. That makes the group clear.
The BYOC From the BYOC participants so far I think Elfi, Sage, Ziktomini and Sortof will advance, but still depends on the bracket. But I also guess Giant will pass.... oh wait :D
Going to Dreamhack it will be fun watching my bets and the real outcome, but the players I said will qualify, the groups will be far different, especially the one having Elfi and Sage.
Group 4 seems impossible to call. Thorzain said he didn't really practice much for MLG Dallas, but he's going to practice a lot for this event. So I think he might be the most unpredictable in this group. But really, it's going to be an AWESOME group stage to watch.
On November 13 2012 08:29 Gianttt wrote: My bets 1.Stephano, Taeja, TheSTC, Fraer, Sjow 2.Mana, Bly, StarNaN, Socke, SaSe 3.Nerchio, Monchi, Targa, TLO, Dimaga 4.Thorzain, ForGG, Naniwa, Hero, Ret
The BYOC From the BYOC participants so far I think Elfi, Sage, Ziktomini and Sortof will advance, but still depends on the bracket. But I also guess Giant will pass.... oh wait :D
Going to Dreamhack it will be fun watching my bets and the real outcome, but the players I said will qualify, the groups will be far different, especially the one having Elfi and Sage.
Where did you find BYOC list? Although I suspected SortOf would give it a go, will most likely go through. And then pray he gets in to group 2-3 and not group 4 ^^ Although I think SortOf´s ZvZ has been his weakness in earlier tournaments so group 3 is maybe not so great after all.
I wonder if any Korean will bother to attend BYOC, someone who is not in GSL as of now. It would actually not be such a bad idea for a top Korean to attend. Imagine if for example rain would show up, it is not like he is going to get defeated in BYOC tournament, or at least I very much doubt so.
On November 13 2012 08:29 Gianttt wrote: While although Fraer has the same small favored as Stephano he will not be able to beat TheSTC.
I don't really understand that sentence, but fraer did beat TheSTC at Dreamhack Bucharest. I feel fraer is still strongly underrated. Too bad he has such a difficult group. He still can beat TheSTC and has a shot against Stephano/Taeja.
ForGG FIGHTING! Kick some Zerg ass! Assuming enough Z make it out, lol. They really stacked those brackets for as even a distribution as possible, lol.
Actually wtf we'za leaning really P heavy this time around.
Why does Dreamhack always put 2 koreans in a monster group instead of spreading them out? I feel as though they always reserve a group for a European to come out by not putting in any koreans. Bias!
On November 13 2012 09:15 Discount_Glowstix wrote: Why does Dreamhack always put 2 koreans in a monster group instead of spreading them out? I feel as though they always reserve a group for a European to come out by not putting in any koreans. Bias!
The groups are made by the seeding points the players earned throughout the 2012 DH circuit. Hence why the champions are divided in separate groups. And all the other DH tournaments this past year had randomized groups as far as I'm aware?
On November 13 2012 08:29 Gianttt wrote: While although Fraer has the same small favored as Stephano he will not be able to beat TheSTC.
I don't really understand that sentence, but fraer did beat TheSTC at Dreamhack Bucharest. I feel fraer is still strongly underrated. Too bad he has such a difficult group. He still can beat TheSTC and has a shot against Stephano/Taeja.
Fraer is actually a PvZ specialist. I would favor him over any korean zerg bar for Life, Leenock, Symbol and HyuN.
So many mirror matches, Tank lines everywhere in group 1, 4gates in group 2 and ling/bling in group 3. Can't wait to see what innovations they will try in these mirrors to be unexpected.
On November 13 2012 08:29 Gianttt wrote: While although Fraer has the same small favored as Stephano he will not be able to beat TheSTC.
I don't really understand that sentence, but fraer did beat TheSTC at Dreamhack Bucharest. I feel fraer is still strongly underrated. Too bad he has such a difficult group. He still can beat TheSTC and has a shot against Stephano/Taeja.
STC is overall a very good player but can't seem to continue that on foreign soil - Last 2 MLG's, Bucharest and Lone Star he was quite awful so based on that 3rd place will be a toss-up between them 2 but saying he has a shot vs Taeja or Stephano is highly over-optimistic
Group 4 is pretty easy to predict: HerO, ForGG, Naniwa
Ret stands 0 chance in this group, thorzain is inconsistent, hero has slaughtered naniwa @ pvp before, hero has strong pvt & any pvz he plays is good enough to beat ret, forgg is overall quite strong and should get 2nd.
@Ksquared HerO's group is not bad at all, he's only struggling vs zergs, his pvt and pvp are quite strong(his pvp has improved a lot)
TargA is still disgustingly under rated, but thats normal i guess cos he's still quite new to the international scene. He will most likely do well this tournament.
He's also teamless now as MindFreak no longer support PC games. so someone should try to pick him up!! :D
On November 13 2012 09:29 nkr wrote: How come no americans made the trip for DH? Surely it would be a tournament you would want to participate in O_o
Why would they come? Financially it makes no sense as their chances wouldn't be too great and flight over atlantic is not that cheap.
sorry, i forgot americans arent actually competitors :s
It's not like we see huge groups of Europeans at MLGs either. At the end of the day, there are real life restrictions.
I count seven notable european players at the recent mlg
And that is not a lot considering the number of European pros. And quite a few were seeded into Group Play from the regional qualifiers so didn't have to pay for travel I assume.
Pred : 1.Stephano,Taeja,The Stc 2.MaNa,Bly,Sase 3.Nerchio,TLO,Dimaga (sorry protoss but i don't think you can make it with all these z ) 4.ForGG,Naniwer,herO
I don't know why but I'm not terribly excited and I think this has been an ongoing thing for me when it comes to DH's because the player list just doesn't blow me away. It's been like this for the last year. ;/
On November 13 2012 17:52 Meggiroth wrote: Stephano takes this easily. Best player in the world by far.
I love your signature really funny. But i have to disagree with your post. Imho Stephano is the best foreigner in the world ... for now, because of infestors.
I understand its hard for Koreans to get to regular DH events, but with this price pool (pretty much 4x the pool of the regular events) one could've hoped a few more would come.
Still looking good regardless. Its pretty much all top foreigners in full force, and DH almost always puts up a good show.
On November 13 2012 19:04 AxionSteel wrote: Seems like a smaller field than usual? Maybe I'm wrong. Should be good in any case
This is the final for this year. So while all previous stops were open for everyone, this one is only open for those who performed best at their 4 regular stops (+4 BYOC spots). Less players, more price money, more hype =)
ffffck group 4... and my man Thorzain gotta go through hell to get out of that :/ anyhow semis and final gonna be awesome and as always ill be there in the flesh!
4 of the best casters? Check Best host? Check Best observer at foreign events? Check Very well rouned player line-up with top koreans and top foreigners? Check
1) There are more than two terrans. Weeee (upcoming wcg is just sick joke aswell as whole situation about balance, but thats other theme). 2) I just dont understand why somebody dont use simple system. 3 baskets. P Z T. And you just picking players. Who the hell want to watch 5x ZvZ (bo3!) in row for fuck sake (and its still funniest matchup, PvP and TvT are 9/10 games incredibly boring - im terran)
There could be also other ways to do that, but seriously im starting to be really bored because of allzerg and allprotoss groups in tournaments.
On November 14 2012 05:32 oogieogie wrote: take 2 of the zergs from group 3 and switch them with protoss in group 2. I mean ZvZ isn't that bad, but holy hell does PvP still suck ass.
High level PvP is sick to watch, creator vs parting or rain etc would be so sick