EPTOn October 25 2012 07:20 Torte de Lini wrote:
Kennigit does what you do, but better.
Kennigit does what you do, but better.
James does stuff?
This is news to me. D:
Dependent Journalism and its Constraints (AA) - Page 2
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StarStruck
25339 Posts
James does stuff? This is news to me. D: | ||
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Torte de Lini
Germany38463 Posts
Thank you to Live on Three for mentioning my piece as well. | ||
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Richard_Lewis
United Kingdom446 Posts
You make points I agree with but you've took a very small cross section of our work and lumped us in with everyone else. In our busy periods we publish about six features a week. Many of these are opinion based. That small amount you have highlighted wasn't. | ||
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Kazeyonoma
United States2912 Posts
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Torte de Lini
Germany38463 Posts
Thank you again for your comments and views. | ||
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Torte de Lini
Germany38463 Posts
Bumping this topic because of recent events and discussion! | ||
InsidiA
Canada1169 Posts
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darkrage14
Canada173 Posts
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Torte de Lini
Germany38463 Posts
Yes, SirScoots and LO3 with Slasher talked about this, though I don't think anyone got mad at him at the time. | ||
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Richard_Lewis
United Kingdom446 Posts
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Torte de Lini
Germany38463 Posts
On January 17 2013 01:44 Richard_Lewis wrote: You made a lot inaccurate points at the time and those still haven't been addressed by a bump. I only see one you mentioned. Are there any others? You make points I agree with but you've took a very small cross section of our work and lumped us in with everyone else. In our busy periods we publish about six features a week. Many of these are opinion based. That small amount you have highlighted wasn't. If this is it, then this is just you unhappy with my assessment of your organization. It doesn't go against the general message and points of this piece. If there are other inaccuracies, let me know, because with the people I verified the piece with; they didn't claim any. | ||
ZeromuS
Canada13389 Posts
On January 17 2013 01:46 Torte de Lini wrote: I only see one you mentioned. Are there any others? If this is it, then this is just you unhappy with my assessment of your organization. It doesn't go against the general message and points of this piece. If there are other inaccuracies, let me know, because with the people I verified the piece with; they didn't claim any. But Torte its your job to make organizations look good. Right?  Jokes aside, I enjoyed the piece a few months ago but am confused as to its bump. It doesn't really address the issues that people are frothing over today regarding Slasher at all. | ||
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Torte de Lini
Germany38463 Posts
On January 17 2013 01:52 ZeromuS wrote: But Torte its your job to make organizations look good. Right? Jokes aside, I enjoyed the piece a few months ago but am confused as to its bump. It doesn't really address the issues that people are frothing over today regarding Slasher at all. It actually does by the issue of the difficulty of independent journalism. In essence slasher is doing what esfi and others don't because they understand the problem with breaking news before teams. Doing so breaks your relationship with organisation and you lose out on exclusives or even interviews. Because of these sorts of mindfulness, selective journalism happens. When I get on my computer I'll quote it, but it's the four bullet points at the bottom of this article | ||
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Richard_Lewis
United Kingdom446 Posts
On January 17 2013 01:46 Torte de Lini wrote: I only see one you mentioned. Are there any others? If this is it, then this is just you unhappy with my assessment of your organization. It doesn't go against the general message and points of this piece. If there are other inaccuracies, let me know, because with the people I verified the piece with; they didn't claim any. No. I don't care how you assess "my organisation". You have however took a small cross section of examples and then used them to make sweeping statements and generalities. I'd not feel comfortable making comments about the standard of journalism in any field if that was my methodology. As the above poster recognises as well, this bump is cheap at best. The piece isn't really relevant to what people are discussing currently. | ||
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revel8
United Kingdom3022 Posts
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Torte de Lini
Germany38463 Posts
On January 17 2013 02:01 Richard_Lewis wrote: No. I don't care how you assess "my organisation". You have however took a small cross section of examples and then used them to make sweeping statements and generalities. I'd not feel comfortable making comments about the standard of journalism in any field if that was my methodology. As the above poster recognises as well, this bump is cheap at best. The piece isn't really relevant to what people are discussing currently. The "cross section of examples" were verified and accepted by both ESFI World and D-Esports (and/or their members heavily involved), neither disagreed or objected, only you. These generalities may be "sweeping", but they're accepted by nearly all parties involved. If verifying your work by other individuals who are equally credited by similar work or more is insufficient to make comments about the standard of journalism, then you'll find working with others quite difficult. The bump isn't "cheap" because I get nothing back in terms of actual value (I just like the discussions, all articles are posted in full on Team Liquid), the piece is heavily relevant to the current situation as it pertains to the obligations and issues journalism faces if they don't abide by expected relationships with current news sources and organizations. You mentioned there were a lot of "inaccuracies". Please state where. I'll correct where it needs to be corrected, but if you're just here to slander, then I don't think you'll do much at all. On January 17 2013 02:02 revel8 wrote: Torte de Lini, good luck in your attempts to become a journalist for e-sports. Hope it works out. You can make it happen. haha, thanks Zeromus: So to summarize: 1. E-Sports Journalism is not necessarily independent.
2. E-Sports News Media Sites are not self-sustained.
found it. In essence, you cannot have independent journalism at its fullest because of what it pertains in terms of "leaks", release of harmful news that hurts your relationships with organizations and, in turn, you lose out on potential content. It's a short-term gain for a major relationship loss. | ||
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Ryuhou)aS(
United States1174 Posts
I would say that what I feel is the reason for the esports news outlets "walking on egg shells" is that the community is way to quick to judge. We immediately jump on anybody who has a differing opinion than our own, and never really stop to think about things from their perspective(s). Part of this is probably due to the anonymity brought about by the internet. Since all discussions are done behind a handle, nobody feels they can be blamed for being wrong in chasing off somebody who's 1)brave enough to say what they think 2)brave enough to put their actual names and/or faces out there for everybody to see. By the way, I think it's interesting to see you post your whole article here, which mentions sites wanting to get more hits for themselves. This is something almost never seen on TL, usually you have a quote, and quick summary, asking people to go read the whole article on their own main page. Your site is actually very well put together, and easy to navigate. I enjoy it. As always, keep 'em coming! <3 ~Ryuhou | ||
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shell
Portugal2722 Posts
Because don't forget that if the eSports journalism is not independent(because of all the reason you have talked about) it also means they are "owned" or atleast must keep up with the people they have has friends and that means it can put them in a conflict on interest against another organization. For instance imagine you are sponsored by twitch or have a big partnership with them, you don't want to mess that up by saying owned will pay better then twitch for streams for instance. If you are on good terms with EG and their players you might not want to put a breaking news that reflects bad on them. This is the problem of journalism all over the world. You don't want to mess up privileged relantionships, but sometimes you must. | ||
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Torte de Lini
Germany38463 Posts
On January 17 2013 02:17 Ryuhou)aS( wrote: Great article Torte!! You keep astounding me with what you observe, and the depth to which you can put it to paper. I would say that what I feel is the reason for the esports news outlets "walking on egg shells" is that the community is way to quick to judge. We immediately jump on anybody who has a differing opinion than our own, and never really stop to think about things from their perspective(s). Part of this is probably due to the anonymity brought about by the internet. Since all discussions are done behind a handle, nobody feels they can be blamed for being wrong in chasing off somebody who's 1)brave enough to say what they think 2)brave enough to put their actual names and/or faces out there for everybody to see. By the way, I think it's interesting to see you post your whole article here, which mentions sites wanting to get more hits for themselves. This is something almost never seen on TL, usually you have a quote, and quick summary, asking people to go read the whole article on their own main page. Your site is actually very well put together, and easy to navigate. I enjoy it. As always, keep 'em coming! <3 ~Ryuhou Thanks! My site is an archive for all my articles and pieces. I offer the link to read them all on my site, but I don't gain anything from it and this is purely out of interest + looks good on my CV, so I'm glad you enjoy it ^^ (I love formatting posts too hehe) I want to generate opinions and discussions about topics, making people go elsewhere to read and come back to post is counter-intuitive! I think the community plays a good role in what orgs want to post or say, yeah. I don't know if its as serious as you claim, but I can definitely see some truth in you're concluding! | ||
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Torte de Lini
Germany38463 Posts
On January 17 2013 02:22 shell wrote: Where there is interest (fans want to know everything, the good and especially the bad), there will always be leeks. Because don't forget that if the eSports journalism is not independent(because of all the reason you have talked about) it also means they are "owned" or atleast must keep up with the people they have has friends and that means it can put them in a conflict on interest against another organization. For instance imagine you are sponsored by twitch or have a big partnership with them, you don't want to mess that up by saying owned will pay better then twitch for streams for instance. If you are on good terms with EG and their players you might not want to put a breaking news that reflects bad on them. This is the problem of journalism all over the world. You don't want to mess up privileged relantionships, but sometimes you must. No doubt that the issues within E-Sports are mirrored similarly within real journalism, which is a huge crying shame. | ||
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