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![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/uyt9k.png)
VOD now available: http://blip.tv/liveonthree/live-on-three-e76-06-15-2011-5280947
Live On Three is hosted by Marcus "djWHEAT" Graham, Rod "Slasher" Breslau & Scott "SirScoots" Smith.
On tonight's Live On Three #76, we take a look back at competition from MLG Columbus, StarsWars, and CEO 2011/ReveLations, while previewing this weekend's DreamHack Summer event. All of which culminates to today's main topic of "Why can't the West win?" In the past week and a half we have been witness to:
- MMA, LosirA & MC take Top 3 at MLG with no Korean player knocked out except by another Korean
- MC, xiaOt, LoveTT, LoveCD take Top 4 of StarsWars which consisted of every major foreigner player
- Daigo, Mago & Tokido win two separate SSF4AE tournaments (CEO, RevLA) on the same weekend on opposite coasts
- Most embarrassingly of all, Tokido wins CEO Marvel vs Capcom 3, a franchise America has 10 years of experience on Japan
![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/tuNIp.jpg)
We will discuss the various reasons for such results, and if they will change anytime soon, including this weekend's DreamHack Summer event which featured six Korean players. DreamHack CEO Robert Ohlen & DreamHack/Rakaka's Fredrik "Ponderosa" Nyström will be the special guests for the evening, going over several aspects of putting together DreamHack as a whole, how it functions with so many games, and maybe some insight on why Sweden has been a leader in eSports since the very beginning.
Other topics today include:
- DREAMHACK QUAKE, COUNTER-STRIKE 1.6 PREVIEW
- Flash takes out Zer0 3-0 to win MSL - Best Starcraft player in history?
- MLG announces 22.5 M views for Columbus
- NaNiwa & ThorZaiN head to Korea
- Complexity acquires Root Gaming without Kiwikaki, Slush
- Kiwikaki, Slush join up with VT Gaming to form Reign
- Yellow retires from eSports
Show starts at 19:00 EDT (-04:00) (7 PM EST, 01:00 CET) @ http://www.OneMoreGame.tv / http://www.Justin.tv/OneMoreGameTV
Photo by Shoryuken.com
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Are you going to mention Yellow's retirement at all?
There's also the two Koreans joining western teams.
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Sweet! I can't wait to see this one! And it's great that you guys are even paying attention to BW a little too! I really hope that foreigners don't fall behind the Koreans(or just any Asians) like in BW in SC2 or any other game that gets competitive. I really hope i can change that.
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On June 16 2011 04:51 Bear4188 wrote:
Are you going to mention Yellow's retirement at all?
There's also the two Koreans joining western teams.
Who is the second? I only saw Twilight/FXOz was joining a team.
Also - I watched the RevLA stream for SSF4AE and a little bit of the MvC3 tourney that Toki won. Those dudes are way beyond anything I thought possible in respective games. Toki is insaneeeeeeeeeee at MvC3.
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On June 16 2011 04:54 Chronald wrote:Show nested quote +On June 16 2011 04:51 Bear4188 wrote:
Are you going to mention Yellow's retirement at all?
There's also the two Koreans joining western teams. Who is the second? I only saw Twilight/FXOz was joining a team.
Rain left TSL and says he wants to join a foreign team
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United States7481 Posts
If you're lumping chinese in with koreans as non-foreigners maybe you should use westerners instead of foreigners
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Can't wait to hear the reasons all the foreigners suck at fighting games. This should be good.
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On June 16 2011 04:55 emythrel wrote:Show nested quote +On June 16 2011 04:54 Chronald wrote:On June 16 2011 04:51 Bear4188 wrote:
Are you going to mention Yellow's retirement at all?
There's also the two Koreans joining western teams. Who is the second? I only saw Twilight/FXOz was joining a team. Rain left TSL and says he wants to join a foreign team
FXOz is one and Phoenix (PhoenixWeRRa) went into the new Reign where Slush and KiWi are. Rain would be 3rd.
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Hasn't this topic been discussed to death already? :X
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I feel like tonight is going to be an awesome show. So much news out there. E-sports is starting to become a pretty entertaining thing for us average joes =D.
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United Kingdom14464 Posts
I'm really interested to see an indepth look at the topic. No fluff included.
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Is there a way to get a only audio format of this show?
Itunes has 3 different versions of Lo3 and I think most of them are out dated.
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Northern Ireland2557 Posts
please call them international players if they aren't asian
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On June 16 2011 05:03 Aegeis wrote:
Is there a way to get a only audio format of this show?
Itunes has 3 different versions of Lo3 and I think most of them are out dated.
http://feeds.feedburner.com/onemoregame-lo3-mp3
Click the right mouse button on the "Play Now" and download it.
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On June 16 2011 05:06 Piski wrote:Show nested quote +On June 16 2011 05:03 Aegeis wrote:
Is there a way to get a only audio format of this show?
Itunes has 3 different versions of Lo3 and I think most of them are out dated. http://feeds.feedburner.com/onemoregame-lo3-mp3Click the right mouse button on the "Play Now" and download it.
Thank you
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On June 16 2011 04:57 Rayeth wrote:
Can't wait to hear the reasons all the foreigners suck at fighting games. This should be good.
Justin Wong could have won, but he used a gimmicky team in MvC3 and didn't play perfectly, which Tokido didn't do either, but he played more perfect...
JWong didn't use his standard team, which I can understand because of how good Tokido's Phoenix is, but I think he could have pulled the win out if he just played a more solid, and practiced, team.
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On June 16 2011 05:06 Piski wrote:Show nested quote +On June 16 2011 05:03 Aegeis wrote:
Is there a way to get a only audio format of this show?
Itunes has 3 different versions of Lo3 and I think most of them are out dated. http://feeds.feedburner.com/onemoregame-lo3-mp3Click the right mouse button on the "Play Now" and download it.
Or alternatively from the onemoregame.tv site to the iTunes podcast store, or from within iTunes itself.
It has indeed changed, I had trouble finding them myself at first. Ended up getting SD, video version before I found the mp3. I believe the new artist is gonna be onemoregametv, as opposed to djWheat it was before. And I'm not 100% on how to get to the actual mp3 part but I believe you should be able to pick it out from the store once you browse there, or again from the archive links/overview on their site.
http://onemoregame.tv/index.php/shows/lo3.html in the right sidebar there's an overview of iTunes/RSS with the different versions HD,SD, mp3.
http://itunes.apple.com/us/podcast/live-on-three-mp3/id438191871 has the iTunes store overview of the mp3 in your browser. Make sure clicking allows iTunes to open or it doesn't work.
Looking to be a great episode, can't wait 
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I shall try to tune in! Looks great
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Yeah, just love the show. But why isn't it it the tl calendar?
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How the heck is that topic posted on June 16th, when I'm in a time zone that's ahead of djWheat and it's still 15th here ?!
Can I has this filled in the TL events calendar so that I know exactly how much time I has till it goes live ?
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Slasher you didn't even mention Satoshi cleaning up the big pot bonus for BB:CS2 as well, he's the guy on the right in the picture.
Will there be any call-ins this show? I would love to call in about the AE events this past weekend.
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Was hoping you'd have JWong or Daigo or Tokido on. Really curious to hear their thoughts even if it was through a translator
Worth noting too that Justin Wong has said he has a new team ready for Evo that he won't show at all until the tournament, since he doesn't want to give anybody any lead on countering him.
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Also, I had spoken to a popular tournament streamer and he said that the 22.5 million number seemed weird becuase he's hit equal number of unique's as MLG got before for an event, but the total views number wasn't even 20% that of 22.5 mil. How is it that the numbers could be THAT different?
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On June 16 2011 05:22 PimpWilly wrote:
Was hoping you'd have JWong or Daigo or Tokido on. Really curious to hear their thoughts even if it was through a translator
Worth noting too that Justin Wong has said he has a new team ready for Evo that he won't show at all until the tournament, since he doesn't want to give anybody any lead on countering him.
Can't wait to see his new team.
I just hope he keeps to what he practiced, because his teams have always been really good, but that last one he used in the Grand Finals... Wolv/Amatseru/Tron?? Against Wolv/Sent/Phoenix??
It just seems like a bad choice to me, but maybe I don't understand some of the finer points about playing vs Phoenix at the highest level.
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2 streams at once = lots of stream switching all weekend
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On June 16 2011 05:25 Chronald wrote:Show nested quote +On June 16 2011 05:22 PimpWilly wrote:
Was hoping you'd have JWong or Daigo or Tokido on. Really curious to hear their thoughts even if it was through a translator
Worth noting too that Justin Wong has said he has a new team ready for Evo that he won't show at all until the tournament, since he doesn't want to give anybody any lead on countering him. Can't wait to see his new team. I just hope he keeps to what he practiced, because his teams have always been really good, but that last one he used in the Grand Finals... Wolv/Amatseru/Tron?? Against Wolv/Sent/Phoenix?? It just seems like a bad choice to me, but maybe I don't understand some of the finer points about playing vs Phoenix at the highest level.
According to twitter (albeit after a salty weekend, so might be jokingly) Floe Marn and Justin all said they need to put phoenix on their team
Maybe Wolvie Tron Phoenix or wolvie akuma phoenix, problem is you want some decent hp character to build the meter for tron, but you also usually need to spend meter to make wolvie effective.
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On June 16 2011 05:27 Zlasher wrote:Show nested quote +On June 16 2011 05:25 Chronald wrote:On June 16 2011 05:22 PimpWilly wrote:
Was hoping you'd have JWong or Daigo or Tokido on. Really curious to hear their thoughts even if it was through a translator
Worth noting too that Justin Wong has said he has a new team ready for Evo that he won't show at all until the tournament, since he doesn't want to give anybody any lead on countering him. Can't wait to see his new team. I just hope he keeps to what he practiced, because his teams have always been really good, but that last one he used in the Grand Finals... Wolv/Amatseru/Tron?? Against Wolv/Sent/Phoenix?? It just seems like a bad choice to me, but maybe I don't understand some of the finer points about playing vs Phoenix at the highest level. According to twitter (albeit after a salty weekend, so might be jokingly) Floe Marn and Justin all said they need to put phoenix on their team Maybe Wolvie Tron Phoenix or wolvie akuma phoenix, problem is you want some decent hp character to build the meter for tron, but you also usually need to spend meter to make wolvie effective.
The thing with Phoenix is that its a gamble. If you get snapped back into an Air Combo, you are beat and your 5 bar trump card is gone.
That being said, with the level of control and prediction that top level players have, I see no reason to not use Phoenix as a standard character like Wolvie. I still miss the Wolvie/Storm/Akuma team that Justin won that first MvC3 tourney with. However it makes sense why he doesn't play Storm anymore, since she is so easy to counter.
I've been wondering about She-Hulk with Wolvie, seems like a good mix, with the right assists it could be nice, and then just use Phoenix to win if you can't win off of SH/Wolvie.
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On June 16 2011 05:30 Chronald wrote:Show nested quote +On June 16 2011 05:27 Zlasher wrote:On June 16 2011 05:25 Chronald wrote:On June 16 2011 05:22 PimpWilly wrote:
Was hoping you'd have JWong or Daigo or Tokido on. Really curious to hear their thoughts even if it was through a translator
Worth noting too that Justin Wong has said he has a new team ready for Evo that he won't show at all until the tournament, since he doesn't want to give anybody any lead on countering him. Can't wait to see his new team. I just hope he keeps to what he practiced, because his teams have always been really good, but that last one he used in the Grand Finals... Wolv/Amatseru/Tron?? Against Wolv/Sent/Phoenix?? It just seems like a bad choice to me, but maybe I don't understand some of the finer points about playing vs Phoenix at the highest level. According to twitter (albeit after a salty weekend, so might be jokingly) Floe Marn and Justin all said they need to put phoenix on their team Maybe Wolvie Tron Phoenix or wolvie akuma phoenix, problem is you want some decent hp character to build the meter for tron, but you also usually need to spend meter to make wolvie effective. The thing with Phoenix is that its a gamble. If you get snapped back into an Air Combo, you are beat and your 5 bar trump card is gone. That being said, with the level of control and prediction that top level players have, I see no reason to not use Phoenix as a standard character like Wolvie. I still miss the Wolvie/Storm/Akuma team that Justin won that first MvC3 tourney with. However it makes sense why he doesn't play Storm anymore, since she is so easy to counter. I've been wondering about She-Hulk with Wolvie, seems like a good mix, with the right assists it could be nice, and then just use Phoenix to win if you can't win off of SH/Wolvie.
It's a significantly less risk than you're trying to portray. A snapback doesn't lead into continuing your combo that you just gave up and spent a meter to end early. Once in, Phoenix basically has a safe zone a la doom's hidden missiles with her tracking fireballs that make it so you can't safely begin a combo against her either. She Hulk and Wolvie are terrible together because they both need an assist that helps them get in, which Tron's Gustaf Fire and Akumas tatsu allows. Thats why She hulk wolvie akuma can work as a team, but you can't have both SH and Wolvie if you want phoenix on your team as well. None of those 3 characters has an assist that allows you to safely get in and rushdown someone.
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Chinese players are considered foreigners in the realm of SC2 as well...
SEA (south east ASIAN) players are considered foreigners, yet you are hesitant to call the rest of Asia foreigners as well? Please be more consistent with your labels.
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One of these days if Esports grows a lot more, we can stop using foreigners to describe non-koreans. After all these years, people still don't sit well with the term, and for good reason.
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when people use foreigner in this context, they mean westerners.
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I want to hear from SirScoots why EG cs team isn't in dreamhack 
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On June 16 2011 05:17 speedphlux wrote:
How the heck is that topic posted on June 16th, when I'm in a time zone that's ahead of djWheat and it's still 15th here ?!
Can I has this filled in the TL events calendar so that I know exactly how much time I has till it goes live ?
Because TL works on Korean time and there is 16th. It doesn't matter in what timezone the poster is.
Edit: Also Lo3 is and has been for a long time been in the TL Calender.
1h 52m Live on Three #76
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Foreigners does not equal westerners as Australian, New Zealand are just as west as China, Taiwan, and the rest of SEA.
If Moonglade and the rest of the Australian, NZ scene can be called foreigners, I find it odd that their neighbors like Malaysia, Singapore, and also China up north, are often not labeled foreigners as well in the SC2 scene. Obviously as(if?) SC2 grows to become more global, labels will change, but I can't help but realize that e-sports media is quick to separate out the Asian e-sports scene. Going forward, I always think it's best to remain PC and be more inclusive with our terms.
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On June 16 2011 05:17 speedphlux wrote:
How the heck is that topic posted on June 16th, when I'm in a time zone that's ahead of djWheat and it's still 15th here ?!
Can I has this filled in the TL events calendar so that I know exactly how much time I has till it goes live ?
It is. Also TL runs on KST.
http://www.teamliquid.net/calendar/2011/06/16
Event Time: 08:00 KST
01:00 CEST
Wed 19:00 EDT
Wed 16:00 PDT
Wed 18:00 CDT
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On June 16 2011 05:03 Aegeis wrote:
Is there a way to get a only audio format of this show?
Itunes has 3 different versions of Lo3 and I think most of them are out dated.
Should be the one with the OneMoreGame.tv label. If you search for OneMoreGame in iTUNES then you will see an Artists page with subs to every show :D
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On June 16 2011 05:12 Chronald wrote:Show nested quote +On June 16 2011 04:57 Rayeth wrote:
Can't wait to hear the reasons all the foreigners suck at fighting games. This should be good. Justin Wong could have won, but he used a gimmicky team in MvC3 and didn't play perfectly, which Tokido didn't do either, but he played more perfect... JWong didn't use his standard team, which I can understand because of how good Tokido's Phoenix is, but I think he could have pulled the win out if he just played a more solid, and practiced, team.
Funny thing is, JWong is alternately considered both a westerner and an Asian depending on who he's playing against (Japanese or not), in the same way many people consider Select Korean or not depending on who he's playing.
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lee young ho, the ultimate weapon and the best player in history
+ Show Spoiler +even though he lost to the dong last night
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I understand people's complaints regarding the terms 'foreigner', 'westerner', etc, will try and give my thoughts tonight.
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First Lo3 I am going to tune into, make it a good show guys <3.
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On June 16 2011 07:09 Slasher wrote:
I understand people's complaints regarding the terms 'foreigner', 'westerner', etc, will try and give my thoughts tonight.
The term "foreigner" does not bother me at all. As long as Korea is the "Mecca" of ESPORTS (Naniwa and Thorzain are going to Korea for a reason!), then all non-Koreans will be foreigners by definition.
The term "foreigner" to me does not mean that "all Koreans are better than all players from other countries", rather it is a term of respect/endearment/homage to a place/culture that has long defined the pinnacle of ESPORTS.
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On June 16 2011 07:47 SolonTLG wrote:Show nested quote +On June 16 2011 07:09 Slasher wrote:
I understand people's complaints regarding the terms 'foreigner', 'westerner', etc, will try and give my thoughts tonight. The term "foreigner" does not bother me at all. As long as Korea is the "Mecca" of ESPORTS (Naniwa and Thorzain are going to Korea for a reason!), then all non-Koreans will be foreigners by definition. The term "foreigner" to me does not mean that "all Koreans are better than all players from other countries", rather it is a term of respect/endearment/homage to a place/culture that has long defined the pinnacle of ESPORTS.
Ya I agree with this. I have no problem with the use of the word foreigner.
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Apparently savior is going to mlg. SICK!
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The swedes microphones are overdriven, they rival slasher robotism 
Skypes auto-adjust is just the worst setting there is :<
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Anyone know where I can download the Lo3 opening song? It's so good
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sounds interesting, might have to tune in!
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Shouldn't Chinese players be counted as foreigners too? I mean if you're just gonna go ahead and actually talk about Asian vs non-Asian instead of Korean vs Foreigner at least have the guts to come out and say it.
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The chinese were always counted as foreigners until they began smashing westerners in broodwar. It basically became a shortening of 'whos the best foreigner besides the chinese' to 'whos the best foreigner' with it just being accepted that the scale is korea>china>foreigner.
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But what does that then say about foreigners? Are they defined as those who necessarily come last? I think it's much more likely that skin colour has something to do with it.
What I'm trying to get at is that there's at least some racism/culturalism here. Chinese are foreigners until they're good, then they're not?
OK, think about this hypothetical: Instead of China, say Sweden stratified themselves above the competition. Would Sweden then be defined as "non-foreigner"? No, I think 99% of the fanbase would take Sweden's success as being victory for foreigners.
I for one will continue to cheer for Chinese players as 100% foreigners.
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Yeah, I remember when TL failed to include Sen in one of their GSL foreigner recaps.
IMO, if you're not Korean, you're a foreigner. Just because someone is Asian doesn't mean they're not a foreigner.
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Okay, djWheat needs to stop shouting all the time. Once in a while is okay, but this is starting to get annoying. If I turn it down I won't hear the other guys.
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Flash is not the first to have a Golden Mouse and Golden Badge.
Nada is.
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Can we say Rodney's computer killed quake live?
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EPT
