Antoine's great article on the rankings for all sixty four people in the current GSL Super Tournament got me thinking. Reading through that whole thread, I saw a lot of varying opinions.
"How can MarineKing be so low?! He's been in so many finals!"
"Why isn't MC not first!? He's been racking up offline tournaments for the last few months with ease!"
"Who is Bomber and why is he so high up in the rankings!?!?!"
Everyone has their own rankings. Everyone has their own opinion. That's what makes Team Liquid one of the best communities on the internet. That's why I wanted to try something that could have everyone's opinion heard, in at least some fashion. I didn't want to make just a poll asking who you thought the best player in the GSL was. I want to find out who TL thinks are truly the best of the best playing in Korea at the moment. I don't know if this will work since I've never tried it before, but I think it could be really fun.
First, the basics:
1. You can only rank players who are currently in Code S, Code A, in the GSL Super Tournament or have recently played in the last GSTL (sorry BitByBit fans.) I know a lot of you love the foreign scene, as do I (being an American and all), but for right now I want to do this solely with the GSL. If this works out, I might do a version with everyone in the world or just Non-Korean based.
2. You should rank fifteen players from the pool that I just mentioned from 1st (who you think is the best player in Korea at the moment) to 15th (the 15th best player you think is in Korea at the moment.) For every time someone gets a 1st place vote, they will get 15 points. For every time someone gets a 15th place vote, they will get 1 point. 2nd in the world gets 14, 3rd gets 13, and so on and so forth. If you think, for example, MC would be the favorite against any other person in Korea at the moment, and that's your reason for ranking him first, that's fine. I want to know who you think are the fifteen best in the GSL.
3. When you have your list from 1 to 15, please PM ME YOUR RANKINGS. Posting all your rankings would give away some of the surprise on who will be crowned as TL's #1 GSL Player if you see all of them. So just PM them to me, I'll calculate, and I promise I will count every single list I get in my box. I will not count any rankings that have players not in the pool of people I mentioned, but that's about it. I might also kick out some rankings that are clearly trolls.
4. I want to do this because it will be fun. Please don't turn this into a fight of some sort between players you love. We all love Starcraft 2 and their players, so I thought this could be really cool. This is totally a beta run, so I don't know if this will work smoothly or not. This is a way for everyone to be heard, from pros to people who started watching GSL just a month or two ago.
5. When I count them all up, I'll post the results from #1 (Team Liquid's decided upon #1 player currently in Korea) to whoever got the least amount of votes.
6. Finally, if you want as optional, you can add little comments next to some of your rankings. If you want to explain why you think someone deserves to be #1, then put it, and I might put your quote up when I reveal the final results. Again, it's optional and only if you feel like you want to comment on why you like that player/think they're deserving on being in the Top 15.
I don't know how long I should allow people to PM in their rankings for. It'll depend on how much I get, etc. To be safe, I would try to get your list/rankings together ASAP and send them to me.
Thank you to everyone who votes and PM's me their rankings. I'm really appreciative of anyone who takes time out of their day, puts a list together, and sends it to me. It will be hard work to go through everyone's rankings, but I really want to do this.
On May 24 2011 23:20 Kleinmuuhg wrote: Great idea! I will pm you later , I have to think about my ranking first.
Edit: Terrible English
Take your time. Not saying it needs to be in right now, but sooner the better. The more thought put into your 15 will make the final results better.
I also have zero idea how much a TeamLiquid account can hold messages, so hopefully that will not be a problem.
Sounds interesting, although with the lack of direct competition between those I believe to be the highest, it's hard to choose..
In all honesty, I would say that there is a current top three that is flipped around by many. After that, it's a jungle. The GSL has been so chaotic and so many new stars have risen and old guard has fallen that right now the state of who the top people in the GSL is very debatable.
Discussing who you think is the top or whatever in this thread is fine, but I don't want it to break down into everyone posting their lists. That would just be kinda boring and make the whole final part where I add everything up and spit out the results less exciting.
Nice idea i feel like the current power rank does not really display the real strenght of the players, looking forward to what you guys think of the current situation
@Kiyo: Would've put MMA higher but other than that my Power Rank looks pretty similar to yours except for a couple of slight differences...
On May 24 2011 23:47 bennyaus wrote: Is this a measure of what we think of their skill or achievement?
I would put more down on skill, but past results in the not so distant past can be counted towards someone.
Basically, who do you think could beat everyone, on their best day, in a Best of 7 series.
But everyone has a different opinion on what is best or who is best.
Update: I am currently counting up some rankings. I'll post some stats (not who exactly are in the lead, but on other things) when I reach a certain point.
On May 25 2011 00:20 InFi.asc wrote: i like the idea so far and am excited to see the outcome.
Should this stuff get too much to handle you can pm me for help
Thanks for the help. I expect it to be hard, but I really want to do this. I think it would be a great and new thing for Team Liquid. It'll be informative, get the community involved, and fun.
I really hope some pros, casters, etc. can send some of their rankings in with some thoughts. That would be very much appreciated and awesome.
On May 24 2011 23:23 Kiyo. wrote: 1. Nestea 2. MC 3. Bomber 4. MVP 5. MarineKing + Show Spoiler +
6. sC 7. Nada 8. Losira 9. July 10. Alicia 11. MMA 12. Keen 13. Violet 14. Huk 15. Supernova
Also PM'd, but posted for discussion. I'm sure I missed someone obvious and will hear about it
edit: spoilered 6-15 as the thread creator would rather us not post our full lists at this time.
Okey, I guess your top 1-5 seems fairly similiar to mine and probably others too. Losira could be higher up I think than Nada. The rest seems fairly ok but I don't understand a few like Huk, Violet and Keen? I would never put them top 15. Mine top15: + Show Spoiler +
I know I used a lot of terrans and few protosses and zergs but that's imho how it looks right now. At the very top there's still a protoss and zerg to be shown but nothing more. Discuss if you would like my list but please don't include any balance talk to it. Thank you!
On May 24 2011 23:23 Kiyo. wrote: 1. Nestea 2. MC 3. Bomber 4. MVP 5. MarineKing + Show Spoiler +
6. sC 7. Nada 8. Losira 9. July 10. Alicia 11. MMA 12. Keen 13. Violet 14. Huk 15. Supernova
Also PM'd, but posted for discussion. I'm sure I missed someone obvious and will hear about it
edit: spoilered 6-15 as the thread creator would rather us not post our full lists at this time.
Okey, I guess your top 1-5 seems fairly similiar to mine and probably others too. Losira could be higher up I think than Nada. The rest seems fairly ok but I don't understand a few like Huk, Violet and Keen? I would never put them top 15. Mine top15: + Show Spoiler +
I know I used a lot of terrans and few protosses and zergs but that's imho how it looks right now. At the very top there's still a protoss and zerg to be shown but nothing more. Discuss if you would like my list but please don't include any balance talk to it. Thank you!
I'll count your list you posted, but please PM it so that I can store it with the others.
Hopefully this thread can stay afloat so people can see and send in their lists. From the first two dozen or so I've gotten, very interesting picks. Like I thought, there are many different opinions on the top fifteen. Some players have gotten top five votes for people while they don't appear again on a lot after that.
Again, thanks for the people who sent in their PM's, have offered to help, and said they like the idea. I really like how this is starting, so hopefully it'll continue. It's morning in the US, so hopefully things pick up throughout the day.
On May 24 2011 23:23 Kiyo. wrote: 1. Nestea 2. MC 3. Bomber 4. MVP 5. MarineKing + Show Spoiler +
6. sC 7. Nada 8. Losira 9. July 10. Alicia 11. MMA 12. Keen 13. Violet 14. Huk 15. Supernova
Also PM'd, but posted for discussion. I'm sure I missed someone obvious and will hear about it
edit: spoilered 6-15 as the thread creator would rather us not post our full lists at this time.
Okey, I guess your top 1-5 seems fairly similiar to mine and probably others too. Losira could be higher up I think than Nada. The rest seems fairly ok but I don't understand a few like Huk, Violet and Keen? I would never put them top 15. Mine top15: + Show Spoiler +
I know I used a lot of terrans and few protosses and zergs but that's imho how it looks right now. At the very top there's still a protoss and zerg to be shown but nothing more. Discuss if you would like my list but please don't include any balance talk to it. Thank you!
I'll count your list you posted, but please PM it so that I can store it with the others.
Hopefully this thread can stay afloat so people can see and send in their lists. From the first two dozen or so I've gotten, very interesting picks. Like I thought, there are many different opinions on the top fifteen. Some players have gotten top five votes for people while they don't appear again on a lot after that.
Again, thanks for the people who sent in their PM's, have offered to help, and said they like the idea. I really like how this is starting, so hopefully it'll continue. It's morning in the US, so hopefully things pick up throughout the day.
Sorry for posting, I just thought it was open for discussion about the rankings, but maybe that destroys the whole purpose. Thank you for adding mine to the list !
Will you be releasing the list perhaps after the tournament is over or before?
On May 24 2011 23:23 Kiyo. wrote: 1. Nestea 2. MC 3. Bomber 4. MVP 5. MarineKing + Show Spoiler +
6. sC 7. Nada 8. Losira 9. July 10. Alicia 11. MMA 12. Keen 13. Violet 14. Huk 15. Supernova
Also PM'd, but posted for discussion. I'm sure I missed someone obvious and will hear about it
edit: spoilered 6-15 as the thread creator would rather us not post our full lists at this time.
Okey, I guess your top 1-5 seems fairly similiar to mine and probably others too. Losira could be higher up I think than Nada. The rest seems fairly ok but I don't understand a few like Huk, Violet and Keen? I would never put them top 15. Mine top15: + Show Spoiler +
I know I used a lot of terrans and few protosses and zergs but that's imho how it looks right now. At the very top there's still a protoss and zerg to be shown but nothing more. Discuss if you would like my list but please don't include any balance talk to it. Thank you!
I don't understand how you have MMA ahead of Bomber when Bomber stomped him. Easily beat him 2-0. And Ace(who's done nothing in GSL recently) ahead of Keen and Violet(both did very well in Code A last season, losing only to MVP) and Huk(Beat your #5 ranked person 2-0 in up and downs).
You seem to rate Slayers players a bit higher then they should be IMO. For example Ganzi @ 11, who's gone 6-4 in his last 10 games with 2 of those wins against ButterflyEffect(who, lets be honest, shouldn't even be in the Super Tourney the way he played). Take those away and he's 4-4 against not very strong competition(DRG being the exception, but he lost to DRG).
Also you said on my list Losira should be higher then Nada, but don't have him on your list?
On May 24 2011 23:23 Kiyo. wrote: 1. Nestea 2. MC 3. Bomber 4. MVP 5. MarineKing + Show Spoiler +
6. sC 7. Nada 8. Losira 9. July 10. Alicia 11. MMA 12. Keen 13. Violet 14. Huk 15. Supernova
Also PM'd, but posted for discussion. I'm sure I missed someone obvious and will hear about it
edit: spoilered 6-15 as the thread creator would rather us not post our full lists at this time.
Okey, I guess your top 1-5 seems fairly similiar to mine and probably others too. Losira could be higher up I think than Nada. The rest seems fairly ok but I don't understand a few like Huk, Violet and Keen? I would never put them top 15. Mine top15: + Show Spoiler +
I know I used a lot of terrans and few protosses and zergs but that's imho how it looks right now. At the very top there's still a protoss and zerg to be shown but nothing more. Discuss if you would like my list but please don't include any balance talk to it. Thank you!
I'll count your list you posted, but please PM it so that I can store it with the others.
Hopefully this thread can stay afloat so people can see and send in their lists. From the first two dozen or so I've gotten, very interesting picks. Like I thought, there are many different opinions on the top fifteen. Some players have gotten top five votes for people while they don't appear again on a lot after that.
Again, thanks for the people who sent in their PM's, have offered to help, and said they like the idea. I really like how this is starting, so hopefully it'll continue. It's morning in the US, so hopefully things pick up throughout the day.
Sorry for posting, I just thought it was open for discussion about the rankings, but maybe that destroys the whole purpose. Thank you for adding mine to the list !
Will you be releasing the list perhaps after the tournament is over or before?
Planning on releasing before the end of the Super Tournament. I might write an article on the whole list depending on what happens and how many people get involved. It's okay to have a discussion in the thread about who you think should be mentioned or who you think is in the top, but I just don't want the thread to become everyone posting their lists. I think the surprise factor is fun.
On May 24 2011 23:23 Kiyo. wrote: 1. Nestea 2. MC 3. Bomber 4. MVP 5. MarineKing 6. sC 7. Nada 8. Losira 9. July 10. Alicia 11. MMA 12. Keen 13. Violet 14. Huk 15. Supernova
Also PM'd, but posted for discussion. I'm sure I missed someone obvious and will hear about it
you know what pm means? private message... :-/
You know what reading means? He said - I also PM'd but posted for discussion. RIGHT in his post man. RIGHT in his post. I'll PM my list at some point to the OP. My top 3 would have to be Nestea, MC, MVP.
On May 24 2011 23:23 Kiyo. wrote: 1. Nestea 2. MC 3. Bomber 4. MVP 5. MarineKing + Show Spoiler +
6. sC 7. Nada 8. Losira 9. July 10. Alicia 11. MMA 12. Keen 13. Violet 14. Huk 15. Supernova
Also PM'd, but posted for discussion. I'm sure I missed someone obvious and will hear about it
edit: spoilered 6-15 as the thread creator would rather us not post our full lists at this time.
Okey, I guess your top 1-5 seems fairly similiar to mine and probably others too. Losira could be higher up I think than Nada. The rest seems fairly ok but I don't understand a few like Huk, Violet and Keen? I would never put them top 15. Mine top15: + Show Spoiler +
I know I used a lot of terrans and few protosses and zergs but that's imho how it looks right now. At the very top there's still a protoss and zerg to be shown but nothing more. Discuss if you would like my list but please don't include any balance talk to it. Thank you!
I'll count your list you posted, but please PM it so that I can store it with the others.
Hopefully this thread can stay afloat so people can see and send in their lists. From the first two dozen or so I've gotten, very interesting picks. Like I thought, there are many different opinions on the top fifteen. Some players have gotten top five votes for people while they don't appear again on a lot after that.
Again, thanks for the people who sent in their PM's, have offered to help, and said they like the idea. I really like how this is starting, so hopefully it'll continue. It's morning in the US, so hopefully things pick up throughout the day.
Sorry for posting, I just thought it was open for discussion about the rankings, but maybe that destroys the whole purpose. Thank you for adding mine to the list !
Will you be releasing the list perhaps after the tournament is over or before?
Planning on releasing before the end of the Super Tournament. I might write an article on the whole list depending on what happens and how many people get involved. It's okay to have a discussion in the thread about who you think should be mentioned or who you think is in the top, but I just don't want the thread to become everyone posting their lists. I think the surprise factor is fun.
TBH the longer you wait, the less accurate the results are going to be. As the Super Tournament continues, peoples opinions are gonna change on other players. You should probably try to do these in between seasons if you can. Maybe release this one asap and then do another one right after the Super Tournament ends?
There is no point of a sc2 power rank at the moment. In bw there are 3 major tournaments going on basically at all times, the msl, osl and proleague/winner's league which gives the power rank writer a nice diverse amount of games to base the power rank on. Sc2 only has whichever tourney gom is running at the moment and ultimately the power rank will probably always be the current standing of said tournament + mc, nestea and mvp. Maybe now that the lawsuit between kespa and blizzard is settled more leagues will appear eventually, but until then a power rank is pretty silly.
Totally just PM'd him my thoughts. After I sent them in I only had 2 protoss, 4 zerg and 9 terran. Crazy...lol :x
Guess even though I'm a protoss player, I think many terrans are just overall better players. :x I list was 1 protoss at #1 and my 2nd protoss at # 14...lol. Poor Protoss
On May 25 2011 01:11 ejac wrote: There is no point of a sc2 power rank at the moment. In bw there are 3 major tournaments going on basically at all times, the msl, osl and proleague/winner's league which gives the power rank writer a nice diverse amount of games to base the power rank on. Sc2 only has whichever tourney gom is running at the moment and ultimately the power rank will probably always be the current standing of said tournament + mc, nestea and mvp. Maybe now that the lawsuit between kespa and blizzard is settled more leagues will appear eventually, but until then a power rank is pretty silly.
Except... as you can see by the 2 rankings that were posted, only 2 of the top 10 people in the lists were in the GSL Semifinals. So things aren't always as they appear.
On May 25 2011 01:11 ejac wrote: There is no point of a sc2 power rank at the moment. In bw there are 3 major tournaments going on basically at all times, the msl, osl and proleague/winner's league which gives the power rank writer a nice diverse amount of games to base the power rank on. Sc2 only has whichever tourney gom is running at the moment and ultimately the power rank will probably always be the current standing of said tournament + mc, nestea and mvp. Maybe now that the lawsuit between kespa and blizzard is settled more leagues will appear eventually, but until then a power rank is pretty silly.
Not really. Also, you're wrong at the moment. Seeing as OSL hasn't been running for a long while, it's really now only MSL and Proleague. GSL's run way more often than a MSL or OSL. There are only, at most, three of those a year. Counting the World Championship, the GSL is on it's 5th major single tournament of the year and it has had three team leagues. I think there is enough data and games played to have fans be able to rank the players.
And you do realize the BW Power Rank has had Flash, Jaedong, Bisu + current play of people for like three years, right? If MC, NesTea, and MVP are the top three, then that's probably because they've shown great results in the tournaments they've been in and the team league to a lesser extent.
A Power Rank, or any ranking, is always going to be swayed somewhat by current affairs. And this, like I said before, is a test run. Could be a great test run that works amazingly, but I'm just seeing how this goes.
On May 25 2011 01:11 ejac wrote: There is no point of a sc2 power rank at the moment. In bw there are 3 major tournaments going on basically at all times, the msl, osl and proleague/winner's league which gives the power rank writer a nice diverse amount of games to base the power rank on. Sc2 only has whichever tourney gom is running at the moment and ultimately the power rank will probably always be the current standing of said tournament + mc, nestea and mvp. Maybe now that the lawsuit between kespa and blizzard is settled more leagues will appear eventually, but until then a power rank is pretty silly.
Except... as you can see by the 2 rankings that were posted, only 2 of the top 10 people in the lists were in the GSL Semifinals. So things aren't always as they appear.
Which is even more ridiculous. Lets just say hypothetically that the best player in the world got eliminated in the ro64 of the gom tourney and the power rank comes out 3 weeks later putting that guy in spot #3. What are they going to say? "Well, we haven't seen a game played by this guy in 3 weeks and he did get knocked out in the ro64 but he definitely deserves to be here."
On May 25 2011 01:11 ejac wrote: There is no point of a sc2 power rank at the moment. In bw there are 3 major tournaments going on basically at all times, the msl, osl and proleague/winner's league which gives the power rank writer a nice diverse amount of games to base the power rank on. Sc2 only has whichever tourney gom is running at the moment and ultimately the power rank will probably always be the current standing of said tournament + mc, nestea and mvp. Maybe now that the lawsuit between kespa and blizzard is settled more leagues will appear eventually, but until then a power rank is pretty silly.
Except... as you can see by the 2 rankings that were posted, only 2 of the top 10 people in the lists were in the GSL Semifinals. So things aren't always as they appear.
Which is even more ridiculous. Lets just say hypothetically that the best player in the world got eliminated in the ro64 of the gom tourney and the power rank comes out 3 weeks later putting that guy in spot #3. What are they going to say? "Well, we haven't seen a game played by this guy in 3 weeks and he did get knocked out in the ro64 but he definitely deserves to be here."
This happened with Flash a few months ago. Got knocked out of both Starleagues and only played a game or two a week in Proleague in which has always been weighted lower than Starleagues in the BW Rankings.
With things like the GSTL, Up-And-Down Matches, players who get knocked out of the GSL, will always get chances to show themselves in a week or two's time.
If you don't think there is enough games out there to separate people in a ranking, then that's fine. A lot of people are able to do so, and from what rankings I've went through, there is a lot of parity. There, are, of course, the top players in the world you would expect, but that's the same with Brood War that has been Flash, Jaedong, Bisu, Stork and to a lesser extent Fantasy for the last three years.
On May 24 2011 23:23 Kiyo. wrote: 1. Nestea 2. MC 3. Bomber 4. MVP 5. MarineKing + Show Spoiler +
6. sC 7. Nada 8. Losira 9. July 10. Alicia 11. MMA 12. Keen 13. Violet 14. Huk 15. Supernova
Also PM'd, but posted for discussion. I'm sure I missed someone obvious and will hear about it
edit: spoilered 6-15 as the thread creator would rather us not post our full lists at this time.
Okey, I guess your top 1-5 seems fairly similiar to mine and probably others too. Losira could be higher up I think than Nada. The rest seems fairly ok but I don't understand a few like Huk, Violet and Keen? I would never put them top 15. Mine top15: + Show Spoiler +
I know I used a lot of terrans and few protosses and zergs but that's imho how it looks right now. At the very top there's still a protoss and zerg to be shown but nothing more. Discuss if you would like my list but please don't include any balance talk to it. Thank you!
I'll count your list you posted, but please PM it so that I can store it with the others.
Hopefully this thread can stay afloat so people can see and send in their lists. From the first two dozen or so I've gotten, very interesting picks. Like I thought, there are many different opinions on the top fifteen. Some players have gotten top five votes for people while they don't appear again on a lot after that.
Again, thanks for the people who sent in their PM's, have offered to help, and said they like the idea. I really like how this is starting, so hopefully it'll continue. It's morning in the US, so hopefully things pick up throughout the day.
Sorry for posting, I just thought it was open for discussion about the rankings, but maybe that destroys the whole purpose. Thank you for adding mine to the list !
Will you be releasing the list perhaps after the tournament is over or before?
Planning on releasing before the end of the Super Tournament. I might write an article on the whole list depending on what happens and how many people get involved. It's okay to have a discussion in the thread about who you think should be mentioned or who you think is in the top, but I just don't want the thread to become everyone posting their lists. I think the surprise factor is fun.
TBH the longer you wait, the less accurate the results are going to be. As the Super Tournament continues, peoples opinions are gonna change on other players. You should probably try to do these in between seasons if you can. Maybe release this one asap and then do another one right after the Super Tournament ends?
As you said, the farther the tournament goes on, results will be skewed slightly. I will, at the latest, close it off before the Ro16 begins and then maybe release it heading closer to the Finals or sooner.
Also I am probably going to be out for six plus hours, so please continue sending in your lists and I'll count them when I get back. When I get back and get all the votes counted and then recounted again, I'll post some stats on how many people have been named in Top 15 lists and how big the cap is between certain spots.
Hopefully this thread survives and have some discussion while I'm gone so some more people can see this. If you want to help, please tell your friends in any way that play Starcraft to send in their very own list if they watch GSL. Point people towards the thread. The more people who send in results, the bigger this thing can be. If you're in a chat or a stream, try to get people to send in their own lists. Don't spam, but try to let people know. Thanks.
On May 24 2011 23:23 Kiyo. wrote: 1. Nestea 2. MC 3. Bomber 4. MVP 5. MarineKing + Show Spoiler +
6. sC 7. Nada 8. Losira 9. July 10. Alicia 11. MMA 12. Keen 13. Violet 14. Huk 15. Supernova
Also PM'd, but posted for discussion. I'm sure I missed someone obvious and will hear about it
edit: spoilered 6-15 as the thread creator would rather us not post our full lists at this time.
Okey, I guess your top 1-5 seems fairly similiar to mine and probably others too. Losira could be higher up I think than Nada. The rest seems fairly ok but I don't understand a few like Huk, Violet and Keen? I would never put them top 15. Mine top15: + Show Spoiler +
I know I used a lot of terrans and few protosses and zergs but that's imho how it looks right now. At the very top there's still a protoss and zerg to be shown but nothing more. Discuss if you would like my list but please don't include any balance talk to it. Thank you!
I'll count your list you posted, but please PM it so that I can store it with the others.
Hopefully this thread can stay afloat so people can see and send in their lists. From the first two dozen or so I've gotten, very interesting picks. Like I thought, there are many different opinions on the top fifteen. Some players have gotten top five votes for people while they don't appear again on a lot after that.
Again, thanks for the people who sent in their PM's, have offered to help, and said they like the idea. I really like how this is starting, so hopefully it'll continue. It's morning in the US, so hopefully things pick up throughout the day.
Sorry for posting, I just thought it was open for discussion about the rankings, but maybe that destroys the whole purpose. Thank you for adding mine to the list !
Will you be releasing the list perhaps after the tournament is over or before?
Planning on releasing before the end of the Super Tournament. I might write an article on the whole list depending on what happens and how many people get involved. It's okay to have a discussion in the thread about who you think should be mentioned or who you think is in the top, but I just don't want the thread to become everyone posting their lists. I think the surprise factor is fun.
TBH the longer you wait, the less accurate the results are going to be. As the Super Tournament continues, peoples opinions are gonna change on other players. You should probably try to do these in between seasons if you can. Maybe release this one asap and then do another one right after the Super Tournament ends?
As you said, the farther the tournament goes on, results will be skewed slightly. I will, at the latest, close it off before the Ro16 begins and then maybe release it heading closer to the Finals or sooner.
Also I am probably going to be out for six plus hours, so please continue sending in your lists and I'll count them when I get back. When I get back and get all the votes counted and then recounted again, I'll post some stats on how many people have been named in Top 15 lists and how big the cap is between certain spots.
Hopefully this thread survives and have some discussion while I'm gone so some more people can see this. If you want to help, please tell your friends in any way that play Starcraft to send in their very own list if they watch GSL. Point people towards the thread. The more people who send in results, the bigger this thing can be. If you're in a chat or a stream, try to get people to send in their own lists. Don't spam, but try to let people know. Thanks.
Don't know how many responses you were looking for, but maybe even close it off before the Ro32 starts if you get a good amount. That way you'll have the results before MLG happens.
On May 24 2011 23:23 Kiyo. wrote: 1. Nestea 2. MC 3. Bomber 4. MVP 5. MarineKing + Show Spoiler +
6. sC 7. Nada 8. Losira 9. July 10. Alicia 11. MMA 12. Keen 13. Violet 14. Huk 15. Supernova
Also PM'd, but posted for discussion. I'm sure I missed someone obvious and will hear about it
edit: spoilered 6-15 as the thread creator would rather us not post our full lists at this time.
Okey, I guess your top 1-5 seems fairly similiar to mine and probably others too. Losira could be higher up I think than Nada. The rest seems fairly ok but I don't understand a few like Huk, Violet and Keen? I would never put them top 15. Mine top15: + Show Spoiler +
I know I used a lot of terrans and few protosses and zergs but that's imho how it looks right now. At the very top there's still a protoss and zerg to be shown but nothing more. Discuss if you would like my list but please don't include any balance talk to it. Thank you!
I'll count your list you posted, but please PM it so that I can store it with the others.
Hopefully this thread can stay afloat so people can see and send in their lists. From the first two dozen or so I've gotten, very interesting picks. Like I thought, there are many different opinions on the top fifteen. Some players have gotten top five votes for people while they don't appear again on a lot after that.
Again, thanks for the people who sent in their PM's, have offered to help, and said they like the idea. I really like how this is starting, so hopefully it'll continue. It's morning in the US, so hopefully things pick up throughout the day.
Sorry for posting, I just thought it was open for discussion about the rankings, but maybe that destroys the whole purpose. Thank you for adding mine to the list !
Will you be releasing the list perhaps after the tournament is over or before?
Planning on releasing before the end of the Super Tournament. I might write an article on the whole list depending on what happens and how many people get involved. It's okay to have a discussion in the thread about who you think should be mentioned or who you think is in the top, but I just don't want the thread to become everyone posting their lists. I think the surprise factor is fun.
TBH the longer you wait, the less accurate the results are going to be. As the Super Tournament continues, peoples opinions are gonna change on other players. You should probably try to do these in between seasons if you can. Maybe release this one asap and then do another one right after the Super Tournament ends?
As you said, the farther the tournament goes on, results will be skewed slightly. I will, at the latest, close it off before the Ro16 begins and then maybe release it heading closer to the Finals or sooner.
Also I am probably going to be out for six plus hours, so please continue sending in your lists and I'll count them when I get back. When I get back and get all the votes counted and then recounted again, I'll post some stats on how many people have been named in Top 15 lists and how big the cap is between certain spots.
Hopefully this thread survives and have some discussion while I'm gone so some more people can see this. If you want to help, please tell your friends in any way that play Starcraft to send in their very own list if they watch GSL. Point people towards the thread. The more people who send in results, the bigger this thing can be. If you're in a chat or a stream, try to get people to send in their own lists. Don't spam, but try to let people know. Thanks.
Don't know how many responses you were looking for, but maybe even close it off before the Ro32 starts if you get a good amount. That way you'll have the results before MLG happens.
Yeah, I will try to get it out before Ro32 and MLG. Don't worry.
Probably take at least three days to get enough votes to have a good base to see where the majority lies.
Does it have to be 15? I think most people's top 10 will be fairly similiar, but 10 - 15 is pretty hard to determine.
I mean, you're the one getting the data so maybe I'm totally wrong about this, but I'm predicting very different ranks 10 - 15 between everyone, whereas I think 1-10 will be fairly consistent between most people.
I'm doing it now - I have eight so far and I'm really struggling with the remaining seven. But maybe that's just me and everyone else gets 15 easily. =P
Ugh. Fan power ranks are usually a bad idea. People tend to throw foreigners, newer players, and popular names way above where they belong, without actually analyzing the games. DRG? Guys he isn't even in Code A. Huk? He's 1-8 vs Code S players. etc etc.
People should take this with a grain of salt. If even that much
1. Nestea 2. Min Chul baby!!!! 3. MVP 4. Losira 5. MarineKingPrime 6. Inca 7. sc 8. July 9. San 10. MMA 11. Nada 12. SuperNova 13. Bomber 14. Polt 15. (I would LOVE to out huk here but I can't) Alicia
Here's my list feel free to yell at me or mock me etc.
On May 25 2011 11:39 1Eris1 wrote: Ugh. Fan power ranks are usually a bad idea. People tend to throw foreigners, newer players, and popular names way above where they belong, without actually analyzing the games. DRG? Guys he isn't even in Code A. Huk? He's 1-8 vs Code S players. etc etc.
People should take this with a grain of salt. If even that much
Zerg being underpowered is such a propaganda that it's always a Zerg player that is on top of such fan lists anyway. Not to say NesTea isn't a great player.
On May 25 2011 11:39 1Eris1 wrote: Ugh. Fan power ranks are usually a bad idea. People tend to throw foreigners, newer players, and popular names way above where they belong, without actually analyzing the games. DRG? Guys he isn't even in Code A. Huk? He's 1-8 vs Code S players. etc etc.
People should take this with a grain of salt. If even that much
So what you're saying is people don't have potential? Oh, MC, July, etc were terrible in BW so they must be terrible in SC2. Chill and worry about your own list. And probably read the OP too, its limited to only people who are playing in the Gom tournys.
How can people put Nestea #1? Because he won in the finals vs a terrible player? I like Nestea but let's see who he beat to get to the finals: Jinro twice, Fruitdealer, Anypro, sC and Inca. None of these players are that good tbh. I would put him top 3 but MC is definitely #1 and Mvp and Nestea are pretty closely tied for #2.
On May 25 2011 11:39 1Eris1 wrote: Ugh. Fan power ranks are usually a bad idea. People tend to throw foreigners, newer players, and popular names way above where they belong, without actually analyzing the games. DRG? Guys he isn't even in Code A. Huk? He's 1-8 vs Code S players. etc etc.
People should take this with a grain of salt. If even that much
DRG has been around for a while. People have seen him on Korean streams, and he did go 5-1 in the GSTL which is a pretty good meter of his skill level against top players like MC, MarineKing, MMA and Nada.
I can promise you, from all the votes I've counted, that it is going a way that I think a lot of people will be happy with. There are some surprises, of course, but from my view, people aren't getting voted on over others on their popularity alone. I had the same fears you would have. I thought that maybe some people would get voted on higher because of their ties to the community, but I think all the rankings have been fair in their judgment. Of course I don't agree with all of them, but I don't see any blatant choices for foreigners.
Here's some stats for you guys:
After 52 lists checked:
45 different players have at least gotten one point.
Thirteen players have 100 points.
Two players have only 1 point.
Twelve teams are represented with at least one player.
OP: next time try using some online service for surveys or voting. Try surveymonkey for example. It uses your IP address to distinguish votes and it is completely free
On May 25 2011 14:45 yiodee wrote: OP: next time try using some online service for surveys or voting. Try surveymonkey for example. It uses your IP address to distinguish votes and it is completely free
Eh, it's fine. I like it this way. It allows people to give comments to why they picked said player in the place. I will be using those quotes in the final project. The survey online system might be easier than doing it by hand and counting votes, but I enjoy doing it, so no worries.
I also get to know who sent in which ranking by their profile. Also with Surveymonkey, people could just use proxies and stuff the vote for a certain player.
I could imagine that the top5 or top10 from most people are very similiar as they will be based on most recent GSL success. Maybe by adding foreigners we would get more interesting results.
These rankings will be shit because TL overhypes people like Bomber/MMA(OMG ARTOSIS SAID THEY ARE THE BEST WE MUST ALL BELIEVE HIM!!). Saying either of those 2 are better than MarineKing is absolutely hilarious.
Top4 should be MC/MVP/Nestea/MarineKing and based on results, players(who actually have a clue) opinions on those 4 players and the fact that those 4 are ALWAYS the favourites unless going against eachother I don't see how any argument is possible.
Also DRG and MMA both won Bo1's against good players. I love DRG but really, that's not a measurement of skill. We saw how MMA ended up when he had to play a bo3 against one of the four players.
On May 25 2011 11:39 1Eris1 wrote: Ugh. Fan power ranks are usually a bad idea. People tend to throw foreigners, newer players, and popular names way above where they belong, without actually analyzing the games. DRG? Guys he isn't even in Code A. Huk? He's 1-8 vs Code S players. etc etc.
People should take this with a grain of salt. If even that much
So what you're saying is people don't have potential? Oh, MC, July, etc were terrible in BW so they must be terrible in SC2. Chill and worry about your own list. And probably read the OP too, its limited to only people who are playing in the Gom tournys.
On May 25 2011 22:10 dunc wrote: These rankings will be shit because TL overhypes people like Bomber/MMA. Saying either of those 2 are better than MarineKing is absolutely hilarious.
Top4 should be MC/MVP/Nestea/MarineKing and based on results, players(who actually have a clue) opinions on those 4 players and the fact that those 4 are ALWAYS the favourites unless going against eachother I don't see how any argument is possible.
Also DRG and MMA both won Bo1's against good players. I love DRG but really, that's not a measurement of skill. We saw how MMA ended up when he had to play a bo3 against one of the four players.
Okay so youre coming in this thread where someone had a good idea and puts a lot of effort into it and you have to shit all over it. You have your opinion and thats fine and thats why this ranking is made in the first place. Me for example I didnt put DRG in my ranking as I dont think I have seen enough of him to judge, but you're simply going by results, which is not correct either. If you see someone play good , which DRG undeniably and consistenly did, in the 4-5 maps we saw him in , then that can be enough reason for someone here in the community to put him in his ranking.
Either you discuss the results when they are here in a reasonnable fashion or you may just stay out of this thread, there's noone forcing you to be here.
On May 25 2011 22:10 dunc wrote: These rankings will be shit because TL overhypes people like Bomber/MMA. Saying either of those 2 are better than MarineKing is absolutely hilarious.
Top4 should be MC/MVP/Nestea/MarineKing and based on results, players(who actually have a clue) opinions on those 4 players and the fact that those 4 are ALWAYS the favourites unless going against eachother I don't see how any argument is possible.
Also DRG and MMA both won Bo1's against good players. I love DRG but really, that's not a measurement of skill. We saw how MMA ended up when he had to play a bo3 against one of the four players.
There is a time limit for achievements of ~1 month. MKP got to the finals in february and hasn't got out of the first round in the last 2 code s tournies. Also he has almost no GSTL results, unlike MMA who has been (unrightfully so) deemed the legend killer. Bomber beat MVP, MMA, Ryung, and Lyn. Can you name a more impressive list of terran players beaten by someone else? DRG is not Code A yet so should not be considered for top 15 in korea yet however if he makes it to Code A and dominates there like we all expect him to he will shoot up mine (and probably everyone elses) rankings.
On May 25 2011 22:10 dunc wrote: These rankings will be shit because TL overhypes people like Bomber/MMA(OMG ARTOSIS SAID THEY ARE THE BEST WE MUST ALL BELIEVE HIM!!). Saying either of those 2 are better than MarineKing is absolutely hilarious.
So it's "absolutely hilarious" to consider Bomber better than MKP, even though Bomber's been sitting at the top of the TLPD ELO rank for weeks, if not months?
It's "hilarious" to consider Bomber better, even though, if we look at win percentages, Bomber has won
10.59% more TvT's, 9.82% more TvZ's, and 29.06% more TvP's,
You do realise GSL second places aren't the only things determining a good player, right?
You come off as rather arrogant. No, your opinion isn't correct. It's just an opinion, and we're all entitled to one.
My opinion is that Bomber and MKP are too close to call at the moment. Some people are more impressed by MKP, others are more impressed by Bomber. Calling other people's opinions "absolutely hilarious" and saying that people who agree with you "actually have a clue" is incredibly arrogant.
15 - IMNesTea (since he stopped playing macro only, he has gotten SICK) 14 - ST_Bomber (I wanted to put Mvp here and Bomber 3rd, but after the CodeA finals...) 13 - IMMvp (if someone has nearly the same decisionmakingskill that NesTea has, it's Mvp) 12 - ogsMC (he had to go to the up/downs this season and lost in the GSTL, that's why he is currently that "low" in my ranking) 11 - MarineKingPrimeWE (not the best results lately, still his control is just fascination and he is among the best since season2...) 10 - IMLosira (he aimed for the throne, but NesTea just outshone him) 09 - SCfou (he beat Losira still one below him... I just think Losira is more consistent) 08 - ogsNada (always among the best) 07 - Slayers_Alicia (got outplayed by Losira, but still one of the up&comming imo) 06 - TSL_Fruitdealer (nearly got NesTea, but Im not sure if he will ever make a final again) 05 - MvP_Genius (I don't know why, but watching him makes me feel like he has a lot of potential + he is pretty consistent) 04 - Slayers_MMA (Ace-Player of the GSTL winning team, still has to proof a lot, to earn what they say about him) 03 - ogsInca (you have to give him credit, even if he only really shines in PvP...) 02 - MvP_DongRaeGu (sick GSTL performance, therefore he is CURRENTLY in my Top15) 01 - ST_July (a bit of a slump, since his MC finals, but he is definatly one of the scariest players to go against)
to everyone who doesn't like it... If you're not in my list I don't consider your opinion better than mine!
I made that list before watching Min beat July, but honestly I think many are ranking him too high. He's the current kyrix. Yeah he's got a fun and agressive style to watch, but beyond that he flounders and dies. Kyrix won that all stars game against MKP, but has since dropped off the radar. So think about that when writing up your list.
Edit, didn't see the list above me. Yeah that's closer to what I was thinking.
My list is:
1. MC 2. Nestea 3. MVP 4. MarineKing 5. MMA 6. Bomber 7. Alicia 8. DongRaeGu 9. Losira 10. SC 11. Jinro 12. Nada 13. July 14. HuK 15. Squirtle
I know, those last two are gonna recieve a lot of flack. Keep in mind, HuK beat MMA in the up/down matches, and I think is still improving.
Squirtle has a ton of potential, which may not show this month due to him being against MKP in the opening round.
On May 25 2011 22:10 dunc wrote: These rankings will be shit because TL overhypes people like Bomber/MMA. Saying either of those 2 are better than MarineKing is absolutely hilarious.
Top4 should be MC/MVP/Nestea/MarineKing and based on results, players(who actually have a clue) opinions on those 4 players and the fact that those 4 are ALWAYS the favourites unless going against eachother I don't see how any argument is possible.
Also DRG and MMA both won Bo1's against good players. I love DRG but really, that's not a measurement of skill. We saw how MMA ended up when he had to play a bo3 against one of the four players.
There is a time limit for achievements of ~1 month. MKP got to the finals in february and hasn't got out of the first round in the last 2 code s tournies. Also he has almost no GSTL results, unlike MMA who has been (unrightfully so) deemed the legend killer. Bomber beat MVP, MMA, Ryung, and Lyn. Can you name a more impressive list of terran players beaten by someone else? DRG is not Code A yet so should not be considered for top 15 in korea yet however if he makes it to Code A and dominates there like we all expect him to he will shoot up mine (and probably everyone elses) rankings.
World championship which had bo3's, not bo1's. You can't really judge from one month, especially not the GTSL because the format puts some players at a huge disadvantage(for example, Prime is not very good so MarineKing has huge pressure on him everytime they play since they rely on him. oGs is.. not great so MC has huge pressure on him everytime he plays.)
I love the GTSL but people don't judge Power Rank by bo1's in BW and they definitely shouldn't in a volatile game like Starcraft2 since bo1's favour the worse player.
Also to the poster above you, do you have any clue what Power Rank means?
Anyway you're right, good luck with the idea eventhough it'll just be like Just Desserts writeup. Terribly biased.
I don't get how you can not put the three double champions in the top 3 whatever order you want to but really they have proved themselves the best players in korea(the world)
In retrospect I probably should have ranked bomber a little higher, I still think MKP is better than MMA though.
Also, how are so many people voting SCFoU SO LOW!? He was really REALLY close to being the GSL champion last month. Way closer than Inca was in my opinion.
On May 25 2011 22:10 dunc wrote: These rankings will be shit because TL overhypes people like Bomber/MMA(OMG ARTOSIS SAID THEY ARE THE BEST WE MUST ALL BELIEVE HIM!!). Saying either of those 2 are better than MarineKing is absolutely hilarious.
So it's "absolutely hilarious" to consider Bomber better than MKP, even though Bomber's been sitting at the top of the TLPD ELO rank for weeks, if not months?
It's "hilarious" to consider Bomber better, even though, if we look at win percentages, Bomber has won
10.59% more TvT's, 9.82% more TvZ's, and 29.06% more TvP's,
You do realise GSL second places aren't the only things determining a good player, right?
You come off as rather arrogant. No, your opinion isn't correct. It's just an opinion, and we're all entitled to one.
My opinion is that Bomber and MKP are too close to call at the moment. Some people are more impressed by MKP, others are more impressed by Bomber. Calling other people's opinions "absolutely hilarious" and saying that people who agree with you "actually have a clue" is incredibly arrogant.
TLPD doesn't mean anything. I will not explain why it's obvious when you look at it. We can't call because Bomber only qualified now, but with the next code S season and super tournament we will see more of him. Maybe he'll be able to take out MC and qualify for the final (I'm sure that he'll take out NesTea in RO32)
On May 25 2011 22:59 TheDougler wrote: In retrospect I probably should have ranked bomber a little higher, I still think MKP is better than MMA though.
Also, how are so many people voting SCFoU SO LOW!? He was really REALLY close to being the GSL champion last month. Way closer than Inca was in my opinion.
While SCfou is an all-rounded better than average player, he doesn't have something that distinguish him from the other players, like MK micro, or MVP consistency, or even Bomber decision making+macro
On May 25 2011 23:16 WArped wrote: Sent my list. Nice idea, looking forward to the Western rankings list.
this would be really cool, but even tougher... but I don't know... as there is not this ONE BIG tournament in the West it may turn out into an Idraflamer vs Idralover and people that actually don't win a lot might be considered among the best for "their style". Nevertheless it would be cool
On May 25 2011 23:16 WArped wrote: Sent my list. Nice idea, looking forward to the Western rankings list.
this would be really cool, but even tougher... but I don't know... as there is not this ONE BIG tournament in the West it may turn out into an Idraflamer vs Idralover and people that actually don't win a lot might be considered among the best for "their style". Nevertheless it would be cool
All of the above QFT (and of course to bump this awesome thread so it can get more viewers and therefore a better final powerranking statistic that reflects more of the fanbases views... but mainly QFT).
I got 15 or so PM's in the last hour which is awesome, and I'll count them as soon as I can. Keep sending them in and put in comments if you have the chance or time.
When I compiled my list, I simply asked myself, right now, looking at the present and past, who would be the guy I would be most sure in the world to beat everyone behind him in a Best of 7. The person I picked for my #1 overall is a guy I think would beat #2, #3, #4, #5, etc. on my list if they were in a Grand Final in a Bo7 series. Not saying he would, but I would always bet on that guy against the others at the time being.
But people have varying opinions and see games differently. I just want to reassure you all that the final product will be great. I will most likely write a gigantic article revealing the top twenty five or so with each person getting their own dedication, comments made by them from the people who voted, and all that jazz.
Like I said yesterday, get your friends to vote that you play with that have accounts here and spread the word. It's been really fun so far counting up the votes and reading your guy's comments on why you believe so and so is the best player in the GSL.
Anyway you're right, good luck with the idea eventhough it'll just be like Just Desserts writeup. Terribly biased.
But I don't know how it can be biased. These will be the opinions from hundreds of people. If it was just me telling you my top players, yes, that will be biased. You have your opinion and have your right to send in your rankings and add to the totals to who you think are the best in the GSL. Even with your concerns, I hope you enjoy the final product and continue having your own opinion.
Yeah I'm not sure how it can be biased. There's gonna be a few fan favorites whose skill estimation is slightly inflated but overall it's gonna be a really cool thing to see.
Edit: It also might be cool to have a vote of who is the best of the top three, or top five if you include the other two who've been voted as the best (I'm guessing Bomber and MMA are the two other than Nestea, MVP and MC who have been voted as the best by people).
On May 25 2011 22:10 dunc wrote: These rankings will be shit because TL overhypes people like Bomber/MMA. Saying either of those 2 are better than MarineKing is absolutely hilarious.
Top4 should be MC/MVP/Nestea/MarineKing and based on results, players(who actually have a clue) opinions on those 4 players and the fact that those 4 are ALWAYS the favourites unless going against eachother I don't see how any argument is possible.
Also DRG and MMA both won Bo1's against good players. I love DRG but really, that's not a measurement of skill. We saw how MMA ended up when he had to play a bo3 against one of the four players.
There is a time limit for achievements of ~1 month. MKP got to the finals in february and hasn't got out of the first round in the last 2 code s tournies. Also he has almost no GSTL results, unlike MMA who has been (unrightfully so) deemed the legend killer. Bomber beat MVP, MMA, Ryung, and Lyn. Can you name a more impressive list of terran players beaten by someone else? DRG is not Code A yet so should not be considered for top 15 in korea yet however if he makes it to Code A and dominates there like we all expect him to he will shoot up mine (and probably everyone elses) rankings.
World championship which had bo3's, not bo1's. You can't really judge from one month, especially not the GTSL because the format puts some players at a huge disadvantage(for example, Prime is not very good so MarineKing has huge pressure on him everytime they play since they rely on him. oGs is.. not great so MC has huge pressure on him everytime he plays.)
I love the GTSL but people don't judge Power Rank by bo1's in BW and they definitely shouldn't in a volatile game like Starcraft2 since bo1's favour the worse player.
Also to the poster above you, do you have any clue what Power Rank means?
Anyway you're right, good luck with the idea eventhough it'll just be like Just Desserts writeup. Terribly biased.
MC has won in TL MKP has not. The pressure that you talk of is something that MMA has to go through 10x this. I don't personally have MMA or MKP in my korean top 10 but to say MKP is top 4 in a power ranking is borderline rediculous.
And Really, flamewheel doesnt use proleague results in his power rankings of broodwar? Come on you're either trolling or talking completely out of your ass.
Power rankings are always biased, look at ESPN's power rankings. Do they always have the higher win percentage team at the top? No, they have who they feel and from what they have seen is the strongest team of the week or month.
GSTL is a very bad measure because it involves bo1's and thus players can train for specific maps to snipe specific players. Thats why MMA and DRG do good there.
But put them in a bo3/5 situation where they can't prepare for a specific snipe and they flounder
On May 26 2011 02:09 1Eris1 wrote: GSTL is a very bad measure because it involves bo1's and thus players can train for specific maps to snipe specific players. Thats why MMA and DRG do good there.
But put them in a bo3/5 situation where they can't prepare for a specific snipe and they flounder
DRG was 5 and 1 this GSTL not just sniping but winning after his initial map. MMA doesn't really snipe as much as he is an ace. There is no telling who he will face in the last 1 or 2 games of a series yet he does fantasically against them all.
The bo3/5/7 situation gives players atleast 7 times the amount of prep time for 1 opponent of 1 race. I don't really understand where you are going with this preperation argument. I'm sure when OGS plays SlayerS MC prepares hardest for PvT for MMA knowing they will both be sent out last. GSTL is only like 4 days long how much time do these guys really have to prepare to be snipers if one teams ace is p and others are z and t. Aces of teams (MMA, DRG, MC, Nestea/MVP, SC, MKP) have to prepare for any race in the highest of pressure situations.
The entire first round of Code S is Bo1 should we throw away those results too.
On May 25 2011 22:10 dunc wrote: These rankings will be shit because TL overhypes people like Bomber/MMA. Saying either of those 2 are better than MarineKing is absolutely hilarious.
Top4 should be MC/MVP/Nestea/MarineKing and based on results, players(who actually have a clue) opinions on those 4 players and the fact that those 4 are ALWAYS the favourites unless going against eachother I don't see how any argument is possible.
Also DRG and MMA both won Bo1's against good players. I love DRG but really, that's not a measurement of skill. We saw how MMA ended up when he had to play a bo3 against one of the four players.
There is a time limit for achievements of ~1 month. MKP got to the finals in february and hasn't got out of the first round in the last 2 code s tournies. Also he has almost no GSTL results, unlike MMA who has been (unrightfully so) deemed the legend killer. Bomber beat MVP, MMA, Ryung, and Lyn. Can you name a more impressive list of terran players beaten by someone else? DRG is not Code A yet so should not be considered for top 15 in korea yet however if he makes it to Code A and dominates there like we all expect him to he will shoot up mine (and probably everyone elses) rankings.
World championship which had bo3's, not bo1's. You can't really judge from one month, especially not the GTSL because the format puts some players at a huge disadvantage(for example, Prime is not very good so MarineKing has huge pressure on him everytime they play since they rely on him. oGs is.. not great so MC has huge pressure on him everytime he plays.)
I love the GTSL but people don't judge Power Rank by bo1's in BW and they definitely shouldn't in a volatile game like Starcraft2 since bo1's favour the worse player.
Also to the poster above you, do you have any clue what Power Rank means?
Anyway you're right, good luck with the idea eventhough it'll just be like Just Desserts writeup. Terribly biased.
MC has won in TL MKP has not. The pressure that you talk of is something that MMA has to go through 10x this. I don't personally have MMA or MKP in my korean top 10 but to say MKP is top 4 in a power ranking is borderline rediculous.
And Really, flamewheel doesnt use proleague results in his power rankings of broodwar? Come on you're either trolling or talking completely out of your ass.
Power rankings are always biased, look at ESPN's power rankings. Do they always have the higher win percentage team at the top? No, they have who they feel and from what they have seen is the strongest team of the week or month.
You know that all teams on SPL play every week right?And the guys on top 10 of Power Rank play every week on SPL+individual tournaments like OSL and MSL. Not just one big tournament, where if you are knocked out early, you have no chance to prove what you are able to do til next month.
If you are counting TL to choose MC and MKP ranks, you should consider MMA and DRG too.If not, GSLWC was a month ago, and MKP was 2nd place, i don't think he dropped below 10th in such a short time.
On May 25 2011 22:10 dunc wrote: These rankings will be shit because TL overhypes people like Bomber/MMA. Saying either of those 2 are better than MarineKing is absolutely hilarious.
Top4 should be MC/MVP/Nestea/MarineKing and based on results, players(who actually have a clue) opinions on those 4 players and the fact that those 4 are ALWAYS the favourites unless going against eachother I don't see how any argument is possible.
Also DRG and MMA both won Bo1's against good players. I love DRG but really, that's not a measurement of skill. We saw how MMA ended up when he had to play a bo3 against one of the four players.
There is a time limit for achievements of ~1 month. MKP got to the finals in february and hasn't got out of the first round in the last 2 code s tournies. Also he has almost no GSTL results, unlike MMA who has been (unrightfully so) deemed the legend killer. Bomber beat MVP, MMA, Ryung, and Lyn. Can you name a more impressive list of terran players beaten by someone else? DRG is not Code A yet so should not be considered for top 15 in korea yet however if he makes it to Code A and dominates there like we all expect him to he will shoot up mine (and probably everyone elses) rankings.
World championship which had bo3's, not bo1's. You can't really judge from one month, especially not the GTSL because the format puts some players at a huge disadvantage(for example, Prime is not very good so MarineKing has huge pressure on him everytime they play since they rely on him. oGs is.. not great so MC has huge pressure on him everytime he plays.)
I love the GTSL but people don't judge Power Rank by bo1's in BW and they definitely shouldn't in a volatile game like Starcraft2 since bo1's favour the worse player.
Also to the poster above you, do you have any clue what Power Rank means?
Anyway you're right, good luck with the idea eventhough it'll just be like Just Desserts writeup. Terribly biased.
MC has won in TL MKP has not. The pressure that you talk of is something that MMA has to go through 10x this. I don't personally have MMA or MKP in my korean top 10 but to say MKP is top 4 in a power ranking is borderline rediculous.
And Really, flamewheel doesnt use proleague results in his power rankings of broodwar? Come on you're either trolling or talking completely out of your ass.
Power rankings are always biased, look at ESPN's power rankings. Do they always have the higher win percentage team at the top? No, they have who they feel and from what they have seen is the strongest team of the week or month.
You know that all teams on SPL play every week right?And the guys on top 10 of Power Rank play every week on SPL+individual tournaments like OSL and MSL. Not just one big tournament, where if you are knocked out early, you have no chance to prove what you are able to do til next month.
If you are counting TL to choose MC and MKP ranks, you should consider MMA and DRG too.If not, GSLWC was a month ago, and MKP was 2nd place, i don't think he dropped below 10th in such a short time.
You are taking my content out of context (unintentionally) I am not under the impression that MKP could not be considered 6-10. I was arguing the original quotes lumping of MKP with MC/Nestea/MVP which to me is rediculous. I just dont have MKP in my personal top 10 but I don't exactly disagree with those who do. Also, I was not using the quantity of proleague games but I was arguing the Bo1 format they use (he said BW doesn't use Bo1 results).
The GSLWC was a 16 man (not 32) including 8 non-koreans (not going to argue that they aren't skilled its just a difference of opponents). MKP went 1 and 1 against koreans (beating MC were he played fantastic and being overrun by MVP) and it is impossible to compare Koreans vs. Non-Koreans so I tend to shy away from the GSLWC results. Basically, in my mind, in the last 2 months MKP has beaten MMA and MC and basically noone else while not advancing in Code S.
On May 26 2011 02:36 OopsOopsBaby wrote: i'm curious. is this for april or may? cause may has not ended yet.
This is an overall opinion.This is who you think the top fifteen players are right now in the GSL. You can look on past performances in the past year if you want, but it's all up to you. This isn't a monthly thing and more of a look in to see how the SC2 community sees and places the players in the GSL, so it's not just a singular month you're looking at.
Also thanks for everyone, again (for like the 100th time), on all your lists that you've sent in. I will give more stats later when I calculate a substantial amount.
On May 25 2011 22:10 dunc wrote: These rankings will be shit because TL overhypes people like Bomber/MMA. Saying either of those 2 are better than MarineKing is absolutely hilarious.
Top4 should be MC/MVP/Nestea/MarineKing and based on results, players(who actually have a clue) opinions on those 4 players and the fact that those 4 are ALWAYS the favourites unless going against eachother I don't see how any argument is possible.
Also DRG and MMA both won Bo1's against good players. I love DRG but really, that's not a measurement of skill. We saw how MMA ended up when he had to play a bo3 against one of the four players.
There is a time limit for achievements of ~1 month. MKP got to the finals in february and hasn't got out of the first round in the last 2 code s tournies. Also he has almost no GSTL results, unlike MMA who has been (unrightfully so) deemed the legend killer. Bomber beat MVP, MMA, Ryung, and Lyn. Can you name a more impressive list of terran players beaten by someone else? DRG is not Code A yet so should not be considered for top 15 in korea yet however if he makes it to Code A and dominates there like we all expect him to he will shoot up mine (and probably everyone elses) rankings.
World championship which had bo3's, not bo1's. You can't really judge from one month, especially not the GTSL because the format puts some players at a huge disadvantage(for example, Prime is not very good so MarineKing has huge pressure on him everytime they play since they rely on him. oGs is.. not great so MC has huge pressure on him everytime he plays.)
I love the GTSL but people don't judge Power Rank by bo1's in BW and they definitely shouldn't in a volatile game like Starcraft2 since bo1's favour the worse player.
Also to the poster above you, do you have any clue what Power Rank means?
Anyway you're right, good luck with the idea eventhough it'll just be like Just Desserts writeup. Terribly biased.
MC has won in TL MKP has not. The pressure that you talk of is something that MMA has to go through 10x this. I don't personally have MMA or MKP in my korean top 10 but to say MKP is top 4 in a power ranking is borderline rediculous.
And Really, flamewheel doesnt use proleague results in his power rankings of broodwar? Come on you're either trolling or talking completely out of your ass.
Power rankings are always biased, look at ESPN's power rankings. Do they always have the higher win percentage team at the top? No, they have who they feel and from what they have seen is the strongest team of the week or month.
You know that all teams on SPL play every week right?And the guys on top 10 of Power Rank play every week on SPL+individual tournaments like OSL and MSL. Not just one big tournament, where if you are knocked out early, you have no chance to prove what you are able to do til next month.
If you are counting TL to choose MC and MKP ranks, you should consider MMA and DRG too.If not, GSLWC was a month ago, and MKP was 2nd place, i don't think he dropped below 10th in such a short time.
You are taking my content out of context (unintentionally) I am not under the impression that MKP could not be considered 6-10. I was arguing the original quotes lumping of MKP with MC/Nestea/MVP which to me is rediculous. I just dont have MKP in my personal top 10 but I don't exactly disagree with those who do. Also, I was not using the quantity of proleague games but I was arguing the Bo1 format they use (he said BW doesn't use Bo1 results).
The GSLWC was a 16 man (not 32) including 8 non-koreans (not going to argue that they aren't skilled its just a difference of opponents). MKP went 1 and 1 against koreans (beating MC were he played fantastic and being overrun by MVP) and it is impossible to compare Koreans vs. Non-Koreans so I tend to shy away from the GSLWC results. Basically, in my mind, in the last 2 months MKP has beaten MMA and MC and basically noone else while not advancing in Code S.
And this last month InCa advanced to the final, does it make him the 2nd best player & best protoss? MC this last month fell to the Up&Down matches and has only beaten Ryung... and is still the best protoss / player.
On May 25 2011 22:10 dunc wrote: These rankings will be shit because TL overhypes people like Bomber/MMA. Saying either of those 2 are better than MarineKing is absolutely hilarious.
Top4 should be MC/MVP/Nestea/MarineKing and based on results, players(who actually have a clue) opinions on those 4 players and the fact that those 4 are ALWAYS the favourites unless going against eachother I don't see how any argument is possible.
Also DRG and MMA both won Bo1's against good players. I love DRG but really, that's not a measurement of skill. We saw how MMA ended up when he had to play a bo3 against one of the four players.
There is a time limit for achievements of ~1 month. MKP got to the finals in february and hasn't got out of the first round in the last 2 code s tournies. Also he has almost no GSTL results, unlike MMA who has been (unrightfully so) deemed the legend killer. Bomber beat MVP, MMA, Ryung, and Lyn. Can you name a more impressive list of terran players beaten by someone else? DRG is not Code A yet so should not be considered for top 15 in korea yet however if he makes it to Code A and dominates there like we all expect him to he will shoot up mine (and probably everyone elses) rankings.
World championship which had bo3's, not bo1's. You can't really judge from one month, especially not the GTSL because the format puts some players at a huge disadvantage(for example, Prime is not very good so MarineKing has huge pressure on him everytime they play since they rely on him. oGs is.. not great so MC has huge pressure on him everytime he plays.)
I love the GTSL but people don't judge Power Rank by bo1's in BW and they definitely shouldn't in a volatile game like Starcraft2 since bo1's favour the worse player.
Also to the poster above you, do you have any clue what Power Rank means?
Anyway you're right, good luck with the idea eventhough it'll just be like Just Desserts writeup. Terribly biased.
MC has won in TL MKP has not. The pressure that you talk of is something that MMA has to go through 10x this. I don't personally have MMA or MKP in my korean top 10 but to say MKP is top 4 in a power ranking is borderline rediculous.
And Really, flamewheel doesnt use proleague results in his power rankings of broodwar? Come on you're either trolling or talking completely out of your ass.
Power rankings are always biased, look at ESPN's power rankings. Do they always have the higher win percentage team at the top? No, they have who they feel and from what they have seen is the strongest team of the week or month.
You know that all teams on SPL play every week right?And the guys on top 10 of Power Rank play every week on SPL+individual tournaments like OSL and MSL. Not just one big tournament, where if you are knocked out early, you have no chance to prove what you are able to do til next month.
If you are counting TL to choose MC and MKP ranks, you should consider MMA and DRG too.If not, GSLWC was a month ago, and MKP was 2nd place, i don't think he dropped below 10th in such a short time.
You are taking my content out of context (unintentionally) I am not under the impression that MKP could not be considered 6-10. I was arguing the original quotes lumping of MKP with MC/Nestea/MVP which to me is rediculous. I just dont have MKP in my personal top 10 but I don't exactly disagree with those who do. Also, I was not using the quantity of proleague games but I was arguing the Bo1 format they use (he said BW doesn't use Bo1 results).
The GSLWC was a 16 man (not 32) including 8 non-koreans (not going to argue that they aren't skilled its just a difference of opponents). MKP went 1 and 1 against koreans (beating MC were he played fantastic and being overrun by MVP) and it is impossible to compare Koreans vs. Non-Koreans so I tend to shy away from the GSLWC results. Basically, in my mind, in the last 2 months MKP has beaten MMA and MC and basically noone else while not advancing in Code S.
And this last month InCa advanced to the final, does it make him the 2nd best player & best protoss? MC this last month fell to the Up&Down matches and has only beaten Ryung... and is still the best protoss / player.
Where are you going with this? If I were to do rankings today InCa wouldnt be in my top 15 and MC would still be my number 2 behind Nestea
When you post the final list could you also tell us some of the extremes such as lowest rank on a list that MC got? Or number of lists that didn't include player X (the guy who didn't put MKP in his top ten piqued my curiosity).
On May 25 2011 22:10 dunc wrote: These rankings will be shit because TL overhypes people like Bomber/MMA. Saying either of those 2 are better than MarineKing is absolutely hilarious.
Top4 should be MC/MVP/Nestea/MarineKing and based on results, players(who actually have a clue) opinions on those 4 players and the fact that those 4 are ALWAYS the favourites unless going against eachother I don't see how any argument is possible.
Also DRG and MMA both won Bo1's against good players. I love DRG but really, that's not a measurement of skill. We saw how MMA ended up when he had to play a bo3 against one of the four players.
There is a time limit for achievements of ~1 month. MKP got to the finals in february and hasn't got out of the first round in the last 2 code s tournies. Also he has almost no GSTL results, unlike MMA who has been (unrightfully so) deemed the legend killer. Bomber beat MVP, MMA, Ryung, and Lyn. Can you name a more impressive list of terran players beaten by someone else? DRG is not Code A yet so should not be considered for top 15 in korea yet however if he makes it to Code A and dominates there like we all expect him to he will shoot up mine (and probably everyone elses) rankings.
World championship which had bo3's, not bo1's. You can't really judge from one month, especially not the GTSL because the format puts some players at a huge disadvantage(for example, Prime is not very good so MarineKing has huge pressure on him everytime they play since they rely on him. oGs is.. not great so MC has huge pressure on him everytime he plays.)
I love the GTSL but people don't judge Power Rank by bo1's in BW and they definitely shouldn't in a volatile game like Starcraft2 since bo1's favour the worse player.
Also to the poster above you, do you have any clue what Power Rank means?
Anyway you're right, good luck with the idea eventhough it'll just be like Just Desserts writeup. Terribly biased.
MC has won in TL MKP has not. The pressure that you talk of is something that MMA has to go through 10x this. I don't personally have MMA or MKP in my korean top 10 but to say MKP is top 4 in a power ranking is borderline rediculous.
And Really, flamewheel doesnt use proleague results in his power rankings of broodwar? Come on you're either trolling or talking completely out of your ass.
Power rankings are always biased, look at ESPN's power rankings. Do they always have the higher win percentage team at the top? No, they have who they feel and from what they have seen is the strongest team of the week or month.
You know that all teams on SPL play every week right?And the guys on top 10 of Power Rank play every week on SPL+individual tournaments like OSL and MSL. Not just one big tournament, where if you are knocked out early, you have no chance to prove what you are able to do til next month.
If you are counting TL to choose MC and MKP ranks, you should consider MMA and DRG too.If not, GSLWC was a month ago, and MKP was 2nd place, i don't think he dropped below 10th in such a short time.
You are taking my content out of context (unintentionally) I am not under the impression that MKP could not be considered 6-10. I was arguing the original quotes lumping of MKP with MC/Nestea/MVP which to me is rediculous. I just dont have MKP in my personal top 10 but I don't exactly disagree with those who do. Also, I was not using the quantity of proleague games but I was arguing the Bo1 format they use (he said BW doesn't use Bo1 results).
The GSLWC was a 16 man (not 32) including 8 non-koreans (not going to argue that they aren't skilled its just a difference of opponents). MKP went 1 and 1 against koreans (beating MC were he played fantastic and being overrun by MVP) and it is impossible to compare Koreans vs. Non-Koreans so I tend to shy away from the GSLWC results. Basically, in my mind, in the last 2 months MKP has beaten MMA and MC and basically noone else while not advancing in Code S.
On May 26 2011 03:12 TheDougler wrote: When you post the final list could you also tell us some of the extremes such as lowest rank on a list that MC got? Or number of lists that didn't include player X (the guy who didn't put MKP in his top ten piqued my curiosity).
On May 27 2011 13:09 Yoshi Kirishima wrote: Will outliers be discounted? haha
Only ones I've not counted were ones that only listed like 7 guys. Some people have given weird choices, but a lot gave reasons why they chose one player over another.
On May 27 2011 13:09 Yoshi Kirishima wrote: Will outliers be discounted? haha
Only ones I've not counted were ones that only listed like 7 guys. Some people have given weird choices, but a lot gave reasons why they chose one player over another.
Well, it is a fan power rank, so there should be a lot of variation I guess.
so glad I didn't put MC top 3, after todays games, yet I think the longer you let people vote, the more will the Super Tournament influence everyones opinion :S
To everybody: SIT DOWN, THINK OF 15 PLAYERS AND SEND FIONN A PM!
On May 27 2011 13:09 Yoshi Kirishima wrote: Will outliers be discounted? haha
Only ones I've not counted were ones that only listed like 7 guys. Some people have given weird choices, but a lot gave reasons why they chose one player over another.
Well, it is a fan power rank, so there should be a lot of variation I guess.
so glad I didn't put MC top 3, after todays games, yet I think the longer you let people vote, the more will the Super Tournament influence everyones opinion :S
To everybody: SIT DOWN, THINK OF 15 PLAYERS AND SEND FIONN A PM!
I'm expecting it be pretty obvious that the top 5 will be some mix of MVP, MKP, Bomber, Nestea, and MC. (Don't bash on MC because of the supertournament result, everyone has their bad games) But it will be interesting to see other people's rankings for the bottom 10.
I'm surprised that so many people are ranking Inca. He's probably top 3 PvP in the world, but from what we've seen of his other matchups he's mediocre at best. I think the only notable non-Protoss he's defeated is Nada. And even then I feel like those were games that Nada lost, instead of Inca won.
It'll also be interesting to see how people rank Dongraegu. I think he's the top contender outside of Code S/A.
On May 28 2011 07:36 kNightLite wrote: Great idea for a thread =)
I'm expecting it be pretty obvious that the top 5 will be some mix of MVP, MKP, Bomber, Nestea, and MC. (Don't bash on MC because of the supertournament result, everyone has their bad games) But it will be interesting to see other people's rankings for the bottom 10.
I'm surprised that so many people are ranking Inca. He's probably top 3 PvP in the world, but from what we've seen of his other matchups he's mediocre at best. I think the only notable non-Protoss he's defeated is Nada. And even then I feel like those were games that Nada lost, instead of Inca won.
It'll also be interesting to see how people rank Dongraegu. I think he's the top contender outside of Code S/A.
1. Nestea 2. MC 3. MVP 4. Bomber 5. MMA 6. Nada 7. Losira 8. Alicia (my personal favorite, along with HuK) 9. DRG 10. July
That's just a top 10. Theirs a handful of good protoss - Anypro, San, Hongun, and Genius that float in the mid teens, a few good terran - Jinro, Supernova, TOP, Ryung, and a couple of zerg - Zenio, Min that float around the same level. Shout out to HuK, who if he wins tonight I'd rank in that group of protoss . Beating MMA in a bo3 is no easy feat, and his only losses in televised games are to Losira (2nd best ZvP in the world) and Inca (best PvP in the world). So I feel like he's massively underrated atm.
I love HuK but why does he and Keen make the list when Jinro does not?
Neither HuK or Jinro are anywhere near top 15 material atm
Jinro has been lackluster for a while now, even though he's one of my favorite players he has a lot to prove. HuK just made it into Code S with MMA and MKP in his group, and + Show Spoiler +
recently beat San to progress into the RO32 of the Super Tournament.
would be great if we had a powerrank for sc2. I made this topic up I think about a half year ago, but everyone told me that it was too early... But since we have some really consistent pros like MKP, MC, Alicia, MVP, Bomber, July and Nestea it's getting easier to compare the players.
People that don't add Nada to their list are shameful. Like, Bomber is great and all, but he JUST now qualified for code S. Nada has been one of two people to advance from group stages in every GSL, not to mention he is the ONLY one to make it to the RO8 for every season. He did well in the TSL, and is doing very well in the NASL.
On June 01 2011 16:36 shockaslim wrote: People that don't add Nada to their list are shameful. Like, Bomber is great and all, but he JUST now qualified for code S. Nada has been one of two people to advance from group stages in every GSL, not to mention he is the ONLY one to make it to the RO8 for every season. He did well in the TSL, and is doing very well in the NASL.
I have both in my list, but did you see Bomber's route to Code S? He's definitely worthy of having him in your top 5. Nada's consistent yes, but power rankings are about who's strongest right now. And Bomber just destroyed MMA and Ryung, then beat MVP in a bo7. His win rates are godly, Flash-like even.
1. Nestea 2.Bomber 3. MVP 4. MC 5.MarineKing 6.MMA 7.SC 8.Nada 9.GuineaPig-props to beasting as a random 10.DRG(wild card factor because of only 4 games played live)
On June 01 2011 17:51 Liveon wrote: Interesting idea, really curious to the results of this And people, DRG is not in code A or S, as required. So please do not put them in your lists?
On May 24 2011 23:17 Fionn wrote: 1. You can only rank players who are currently in Code S, Code A, in the GSL Super Tournament or have recently played in the last GSTL (sorry BitByBit fans.) I know a lot of you love the foreign scene, as do I (being an American and all), but for right now I want to do this solely with the GSL. If this works out, I might do a version with everyone in the world or just Non-Korean based.
Toss - Alicia - MC There aren't many, as said above.
Zerg - Nestea - Losira (has been underperforming lately it seems) - DRG ( needs to do something in real tournies :D )
I dunno. I feel like everyone's just gunna go Nestea, MVP, MC. But considering the GSL is pretty much the only tournament they play in, it's harder to judge than foreigners i think. (other than MC, and his offline foreign results are pretty nice).
Making it harder are MVP / MC / MKP / Bomber / Losira's results in the GSTL (losing lol), and I think Losira lost the IM house tourny to Junwi? But anyway, any variation of MVP, MC, and Nestea with sprinkles of Bomber and MMA, should be standard.
I wish MMA's GSTL results meant more, but he has played well in Code A too. As much as people want to hate on HuK, he is still pretty good, so that loss doesn't mean too much for MMA's level of judgement. If you watched his game against DRG you'd have to put him in at least the top 10.
On June 01 2011 18:20 two.watup wrote: Zerg - Nestea - Losira (has been underperforming lately it seems) - DRG ( needs to do something in real tournies :D )
I don't think Losira has really been underperforming lately, his ZvT just hasn't ever been that good. Yeah, he beat Supernova, but that was really close (4-3) and it isn't like Supernova has been doing that good either. Losira's other MUs are really good but he usually loses to terrans.
On June 01 2011 17:58 Drimacus wrote: 1. MMA 2. Alicia 3. Nestea These 3 are far ahead so no ranks 4-15 for me.
Fionn, please tell me these are not how the majority of polls are going.
he posted before that he drops people who don't send in enough ranks. and well: look through the thread, a lot of people have MMA pretty high in their rankings. ofc from my point MC and MVP are missing in those two, but the listed players are definatly among the best in SC2 and therefore deserve to get named.
On June 01 2011 16:36 shockaslim wrote: People that don't add Nada to their list are shameful. Like, Bomber is great and all, but he JUST now qualified for code S. Nada has been one of two people to advance from group stages in every GSL, not to mention he is the ONLY one to make it to the RO8 for every season. He did well in the TSL, and is doing very well in the NASL.
I have both in my list, but did you see Bomber's route to Code S? He's definitely worthy of having him in your top 5. Nada's consistent yes, but power rankings are about who's strongest right now. And Bomber just destroyed MMA and Ryung, then beat MVP in a bo7. His win rates are godly, Flash-like even.
He beat MMA and Ryung...two good players that can't even make it to code S for some reason.
So, I'm wondering if this is still being worked out... Also, I was having a thought, as there was some discussion in another thread about the foreigners in the world team maybe not being our best representatives whether it might be worth doing a 'foreigner' power rank (that also includes foreigners in korea, and koreans who reside in foreign lands now).
I'll send you my list tomorrow morning. I've been meaning to write a power rank for the foreign team scene, but besides the EG Masters Cup I can't get enough information on all the players to make judgments.
I feel like some players are hurt/overhyped cause of their win rate in a certain match up
Inca, for instance, is basically a pvp God. Mediocre tvt, awful zvz. Tough to rank San, great macro protoss, but horrendous PvP
What do you do if a player is really good at like 2 match ups but is just below average/bad in another? Look at July. A lot of people have him high. His ZvZ is < Code A (and I dont mean like bomber code A) quality.
Idk. Once you get past the top 5 it seems pretty difficult to start differentiating, you know? Like, what's the difference between 12 and 14? I'm interested to see how these rankings turn out
IMO these rankings are really going to be shown to be out-of-date when they're a month late. Especially with the results of the Super Tournament, which could really shake up a lot of the rankings if you polled the same people now.
Either redo it or not do it at all. His problem wasn't that he was organizing the data and it took him a month to do so but rather he was busy with other things.
EPT
![[image loading]](http://i52.tinypic.com/fopyz8.png)
![[image loading]](http://www.teamliquid.net/tlpd/images/Ticon_small.png)
21![[image loading]](http://www.teamliquid.net/tlpd/images/Picon_small.png)
13![[image loading]](http://www.teamliquid.net/tlpd/images/Zicon_small.png)
11
![[image loading]](http://www.teamliquid.net/staff/Waxangel/GSL/mkpshrug.jpg)
