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[edit4] READ THIS EDIT!
Everyone seems to get spent bonus points + 73 when they got their promotion, not just players on master league.
So there is no more need for you guys to contribute here, thanks for everyone who had.
[/edit4]
[Edit3]
YES, I've read the Excalibur_Z's thread and even contributed a little
[/edit3]
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Hi guys, I want to try to figure out more about the Blizzard system, and there is this data I really need to get and I don't know where can I get it, so I am asking you.
Everytime one gets promoted, it loses some points, so if it ever happens to you, can you please give me the information?
1) What league were you in, how many points did you have exactly before promotion?
2) What league were you promoted to, how many points did you gain/lose in the game and how many points did you have exact after that?
If possible, also the name of your old and new division, especially if you are diamond now, as there are different offsets for different ranked divisions (and that could be true for non-diamond divisions as well, or not).
If you are willing to get demoted to bronze and then take note on the information as you get promoted back, that would be awesome. I know some players do that for new account or just for lols (smurfing).
Also, if you think you'll get promoted to master on patch 1.2, take note on your points beforehand!!
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[Edit1]
I'll add here some questions/answers:
Why do you want these data?
If everyone loses the same amount of points, that means leagues have offsets themselfes that could be calculate in the same way we do to figure out the top 200 (http://www.sc2ranks.com/masters/la), but this time, calculate how far you are from diamond, platinum, gold etc.
There was once a silver player on Latin America top 200, but he soon got into diamond and we didn't know about the divisions offsets back then. That let me curious to know if it was possible to assemble all leagues into one, just calculating the right offsets, similar to what they did to get the top 200 on sc2ranks.
If my theory is correct, we might easily grasp what rank any diamond division is, so the effort of Exc and others in the other thread could be softened, it wouldn't require the top 200 anymore, or it could at least be one more way to figuring out the divisions offsets.
(sc2ranks.net collected the data, not my memory or math skills. So I guess it is as accurate as it gets?)
Unfortunately, sc2ranks info isn't what I am looking for. Sc2ranks takes "pictures" of your league and points and that's what you see on the website. Problem is, I want the picture exact before and exact after the promotion, that's not what sc2ranks have for us on most cases 
[edit2]
What could you grasp till now?
As I have no way to guarantee that the numbers you give me are perfect, it gets harder to be precise, but it seems the leagues offsets are around 120-180 points till platinum. Then it changes drastically for diamond, cause people that will get promoted to rank S divisions will lose more than 500 points, but people that will get promoted to rank E divisions will lose only 130 or so. That means indeed that we can estimated the division rank by points lost on promotion, though I still don't know what are the magic numbers.
Also, I think there might have different ranks on the platinum's divisions as well, making it harder to do the math
Please, feed me with good data :D
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NA Diamond divisions ranks that I discovered thanks to the "promotion points" hipothesys:
Rank S
Zerus Juliet !
Rank A(?)
Zer'athai Phi !
Rank B(?)
Shakuras Kappa !
Rank C
Brood Lord Uncle !
Rank D
Sarango Oscar
Hive Pepper !
Rank E
Hellion Victor
Firebat Gravity
Dominion Quest
DuGalle Epsilon
Lassatar Sigma
Changeling Kilo
Valkyrie Alamo !
Rank F(?)
(?) Means not confirmed, but they are in same "group", so if we discovery one of them being X, the others will be X as well. Also, if we find out which are B, we find out which are A.
! means it's the newest division on that tier.
There were 554 diamond divisions on NA server at the time of the last edit.
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just a note: if you go to sc2ranks, everyone can see exactly how many points they had at promotion and after!
1844 plat - 1556 diamond
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*edit* Wait wrong thread. Sorry. I suck at TL.net posting.
On topic: around 10% of my points. Plat->Dia 2331 -> 2149.
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if only there was a thread on this......perhaps even multiple threads
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just got promoted to diamond I was 2155 plat and went to 1950 diamond
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You lose maybe 250 on average.
Please use the searchbar next time, also, please ask revelent questions... Why does it matter so much how many points you lose?
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I had 2366 points in Silver Leauge, got promoted to Gold and now have 2134 points.
So lost 232 points being promoted from Silver to Gold..
(sc2ranks.net collected the data, not my memory or math skills. So I guess it is as accurate as it gets?)
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On December 30 2010 10:03 Silidons wrote:
just a note: if you go to sc2ranks, everyone can see exactly how many points they had at promotion and after!
1844 plat - 1556 diamond
Thanks for the information. Then let's say this players:
http://www.sc2ranks.com/la/210314/ROOTCatZ
He had 1667 points on platinum before promotion to diamond, then he ended up with 1172 points, right?
I was not sure if these number were "exact before and exact after", but if they are, then I can just look at them myself indeed, thank you XD
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On December 30 2010 10:05 Skillz_Man wrote:
Please use the searchbar next time, also, please ask revelent questions... Why does it matter so much how many points you lose?
If everyone loses the same amount, that means that leagues have offsets themselfes that could be calculate in the same way we do to figure out the top 200, but this time, calculate how far you are from diamond, platinum, gold etc.
There was once a silver player on Latin America top 200, but he soon got into diamond and we didn't know about the divisions offsets back then. That let me curious to know if it was possible to assemble all leagues into one, just calculating the right offsets, similar to what they did here: http://www.sc2ranks.com/masters/la
Edit: also I did make this question on Exc thread, but didn't get any good data. Also, as I stated, I didn't know the sc2ranks information was "exactly before and after" promotion, I was afraid it could be any amount of games before and after,
Edit2: If what I am thinking is true, we might easily grasp what rank is any diamond division, so the effort of Exc and others in the other thread could be softened.
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On December 30 2010 10:10 SDream wrote:Show nested quote +On December 30 2010 10:03 Silidons wrote:
just a note: if you go to sc2ranks, everyone can see exactly how many points they had at promotion and after!
1844 plat - 1556 diamond Thanks for the information. Then let's say this players: http://www.sc2ranks.com/la/210314/ROOTCatZHe had 1667 points on platinum before promotion to diamond, then he ended up with 1172 points, right? I was not sure if these number were "exact before and exact after", but if they are, then I can just look at them myself indeed, thank you XD
I did some research on the sc2ranks webpage and, as I was afraid, the numbers there might not be from the exact game before and exact game after promotion
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3246 bronze to 1946 diamond.
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On December 30 2010 10:03 Silidons wrote:
just a note: if you go to sc2ranks, everyone can see exactly how many points they had at promotion and after!
sc2ranks is missing a lot of information, so that's probably not true for a lot of people. I was promoted to diamond on August 1st, but the first point on my sc2ranks graph is from August 31st.
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I was bronze, and I had about 1550 points, I then got moved to Silver and have 1357.
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went from rank 6 bronze in the world (3050 points) to 2000 plat.
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I just got promoted; from Rank 29 Silver (1100 Points) to Rank 34 Plat (800 Points)
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Didn't really gain or lose anything going from Silver to Gold I think (253->253)
Although I did go from 607-> 456 from Gold to Diamond (I don't play very much)
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Ha I remember when I got in at like 500 diamond man, that was right after retail.
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I think I lost like 100 or so. I barely had any points when I got promoted as the game had been out for like 2 weeks.
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Have gone from bronze to high platinum, lost about 250 to 300 or so points each time i jumped divisions
VanderLuust
NA server
#263
Platinum Protoss
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I have a theory that when you get promoted you end up with the exact amount of points that are in the general bonus pool. It seems to have happened each time I am promoted. Can anyone else attest to this?
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~1600 plat - ~1300 diamond, now ~2100
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im a noob
bronze 1919 -> silver 1717
silver 2194 -> gold 2060
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On December 30 2010 10:00 SDream wrote:
Everytime one gets promoted, it loses some points, so if it ever happen to you, can you please give me the information?
I actually gained some points at promotion one time. I'll edit if I can find it on sc2ranks.
http://www.sc2ranks.com/team/7325584
Granted, this is 4v4, but it's still the same system, right? My rating went up went I went from Gold to Platinum, although it went down for Diamond.
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1900 plat to 1850 diamond
1000 plat to 750 diamond
1500 plat to 750 diamond
guestimated from memory on my 3 accounts
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i believe that the points you get after promotion are based on where you fit MMR wise into your division. Therefore you could technically gain points if the system put you into a division with high point players with lower MMR than you.
i might be talking out of my ass tho
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1.6k plat into 1.5k diamond 2days ago
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Back in September, I lost a shitload..
like 1200 Plat to 400 diamond. It was really annoying =/
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well according to sc2ranks i had 463 points once i was promoted to diamond, however i cant see how many points i had before ;( I assume it would be around 600 points
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SC2ranks don't have the exact moment you got promoted. It will state that you got promoted when he sees that last time it checked you were on another league, but it doesn't mean that the points it shows are accurate. It's better than nothing and for some people it might actually be accurate, specially the ones after dec 18, so I am trying to use it to see the pattern.
What could I grasp till now:
As I have no way to guarantee that the numbers you give me are perfect, it gets harder to be precise, but it seems the leagues offsets are around 180 points till platinum. Then it changes drastically for diamond, cause people that will get promoted to rank S divisions will lose more than 500 points, but people that will get promoted to rank e divisions will lose only 180 or so. That means indeed that we can estimated the division rank by points lost on promotion, though I still don't know what are the magic numbers.
Please, feed me with good data :D
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OP, I hope you aren't planning on trying to use points as some sort of insight into how Blizzard ranks you. They have said themselves that points are just a carrot and have no bearing on anything. It's designed so that the person who plays the most will climb to the top of their little division. Your hidden MMR is what matters.
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On December 30 2010 22:16 Dudely wrote:
OP, I hope you aren't planning on trying to use points as some sort of insight into how Blizzard ranks you. They have said themselves that points are just a carrot and have no bearing on anything. It's designed so that the person who plays the most will climb to the top of their little division. Your hidden MMR is what matters.
Don't worry, I understand that. (I've read the Excalibur_Z's thread and even contributed a little)
But if you discount the bonus pool it's a really good, though not perfect, guess.
Also, do you see all these players that went straight into diamond from bronze?? The system do take his time to promote and demote players, but that doesn't mean you aren't on that level just yet.
What I'd like to do is:
Players Points - Spent Bonus Pool + Leagues and Divisions Offsets = the closest thing to (Imperfect) MMR as we can possible get
PP - SBP + L&DO = IMMR
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I went from 2000ish Plat to 1700ish Diamond
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1105 gold -> 966 platinum
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This person is the closest thing as good data I've found on sc2ranks:
http://www.sc2ranks.com/team/9586520
Why is it a good sample?
1) The "pictures" were taken from hours (instead of days or weeks) of difference, getting more reliable.
2) It's from a know division (Rank S), which means we already know half the math.
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SDream,
It is awesome that you are attempting to do this. Perhaps recommending a format may help with your data collection:
Old Division/Division Class:
Points Before Promotion:
Points won in game before promotion (Bonus points):
New Division/Division Class:
Points After Promotion:
I have been following the Excal_Z thread and have also been improving quite a bit, currently a lowly bronze facing gold/plat players. When my winning streak stops and I get promoted I will give you the exact data.
Example:
Lurker Kappa/Bronze
1610
16(16)
[New points]
[New division/Silver]
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form silver to gold to plat 0 absoutley none good for me cos im very high in platinum :D
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It was a long while ago, but I think I went from around 2k plat to 300 diamond. I was placed in a new division and I've always assumed (based on others) that it just gives you enough points to be rank 50 in whatever division is places you into.
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I was 2273 in Silver League and was promoted to Diamond.
I lost 635 points after being promoted directly from Silver to Diamond.
I currently have 1638 Points in Diamond.
Original Silver Division - Sarengo Echo
New Diamond Division - Brood Lord Uncle (Best division name ever)
EDITED TO ADD: I saw some references to Bonus pool throughout the thread, and thought it might be worth mentioning that at the time of my promotion I had around ~470 Bonus Pool points.
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More or less 1600 silver league, promoted to diamond and had 846 points.
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United States12240 Posts
This was my full match history:
Game History (1v1)
1: kard (Placement, win)
2: HollowShade (Gold 7-4 29, win)
3: Haste (Diamond 132-71 371, win)
4: xet (Platinum 12-10 232, win)
5: Hawk (Gold 8-3 160, win)
** Placement: Platinum Moratun Dixie ** Bonus Pool: 251
6: ice (Diamond 77-59 499, loss, +0)
7: ACERGAME (Diamond 116-95 407, win, +40 [-20 bonus, 231])
8: DuNgiE (Diamond 46-38 409, win, +42 [-21 bonus, 210])
9: Protoss (Diamond 95-69 654, loss, -1)
10: sixghost (Diamond 56-43 483, win, +42 [-21 bonus, 189])
11: Zantetsuken (Diamond 32-16 466, loss, -2)
12: Moni (Platinum 14-4 341, loss, -3)
** Bonus Pool: 263 (8/14/2010 12pm)
13: Jayyjer (Diamond 59-49 478, win, +42 [-21 bonus, 242])
** Bonus Pool: 255 (8/15/2010 12pm)
14: Shocktrooper (Diamond 47-37 506, win, +42 [-21 bonus, 234])
15: Sixto (Diamond 262-231 744, loss, -2)
** Bonus Pool: 239 (8/15/2010 9:19pm)
16: Darklance (Diamond 57-41 567, loss, -4)
17: Ryo (Platinum 8-2 166, loss, -5)
18: ShatteredE (Diamond 135-118 483, win, +38 [-19 bonus, 220])
** Bonus Pool: 232 (8/16/2010 9:19pm)
19: drubs (Diamond 53-38 523, win, +38 [-19 bonus, 214])
** Bonus Pool: 240 (8/17/2010 11:24pm)
20: Diogenes (Diamond 20-12 385, loss, -4)
21: Sair (Diamond 23-13 452, loss, -4)
22: SpicyCurry (Platinum 10-5 195, win, +38 [-19 bonus, 221])
23: OptimA (Platinum 8-1 124, win, +40 [-20 bonus, 202])
** Bonus Pool: 224 (8/20/2010 5:32pm)
24: Mugatoo (Platinum 11-6 252, win, +40 [-20 bonus, 204])
***** PROMOTION: 1v1 Diamond Araq Echo
** Bonus Pool post-promotion: 184
** Points pre-promotion: 337 (14-9)
** Points post-promotion: 274 (15-9)
Loss of 63 points. Vanick has a similarly tracked history and going from Bronze to Silver I believe he lost 0 points. I'll ask him to post it when he gets home.
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Yummy data, thanks guys, keep it coming :D
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63... 63... I think I have seen this pattern elsewhere, it's probably a coincidence though...
That could mean:
1) Coincidence. You can lose up to X points, but you won't lose bonus points earned nor will you lose points if your "real points" are still way lower than your MMR (it seems). That said, you could lose 1 point, 99 points, up to X.
2) You were on a F-Ranked platinum division and was promoted to an E-Ranked diamond division;
3) You were on a G-Ranked platinum division and was promoted to an F-Ranked diamond division
4) The math is wrong somewhere... 
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On December 31 2010 03:28 Xakta wrote:
I was 2273 in Silver League and was promoted to Diamond.
I lost 635 points after being promoted directly from Silver to Diamond.
I currently have 1638 Points in Diamond.
Original Silver Division - Sarengo Echo
New Diamond Division - Brood Lord Uncle (Best division name ever)
EDITED TO ADD: I saw some references to Bonus pool throughout the thread, and thought it might be worth mentioning that at the time of my promotion I had around ~470 Bonus Pool points.
Your division offset is probably C, definetely not E nor A or S.
I feel we are getting closer to some truth...
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2100 plat to 1900 diamond.
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Was platinum for a long time in the beginning it refused to promote me, winning too much so the promoting bug thing happened. Went from 1200pt to 400. Was a damn tough discouraging blow and stopped me from playing more for some time since I was always paired up with rank 1-2 diamonds and I had 400 rating, used all my bonus pool in platinum and was ranked very low diamond.
Does anyone know if they fixed that bug btw, don't want it to happen in the next patch too.
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My Theory:
On how divisions work: Divisions aren't divided by league, but by ranks first, then by league. There are 7 diamond ranks, probably the same 7 on bronze and then maybe 3 for silver, gold and platinum, but they interlap. There is an F-Rank diamond, then the F-rank platinum, then the H-Rank platinum and the H-rank gold.
On how much you lose/gain after promotion: you won't lose the points you got from bonus pool, nor will you lose or gain points if you MMR is too far away from what it should be (new players). Every rank means a 63 points difference. So a player in a H-ranked platinum division would lose 441 points when promoted to a A ranked diamond division. To a maximum of 19 ranks (Rank S -> A -> B -> C -> ... -> P -> Q -> R), 1197 points lost.
What is the rank of my diamond league? If I say E, chances are I'll get it right half the time. Most players that were platinum for more than 200 games and then finally get promoted, there's a giant chance you are in a E rank division. Most people on S-D and F ranks are new people starting, not people already in the game that have evolved its gameplay. If you are on a new division and it filled somewhat fast, I would bet it is a E rank division. As for bronze-plaltinum it's harder to guess.
Why am I not getting promoted, even though I am winning all those diamond players? As it is impossible to get promoted or demoted within divisions of a same league, the system will wait till you get stable enough for him to have a good guess on what rank you truely stand. If you win 100% of your games, for 100 games, chances are you will finally get promoted to diamond, on a S-Ranked division. In a equivalent way, if you for some reason was placed on silver but then just lost everymatch, then when you finally lose 100 games you will probably be demoted to bronze, on a R-ranked division (the lowest).
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During the current patch test I went from diamond down to bronze and back up to diamond to test and see how this works. For me every move was between 250-350 points as I went up and down 1 league.
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United States12240 Posts
This is from Froadac's blog today:
OK. It is in fact not 2330. It went -12 and then +12 when I promoted. SO I would actually imagine it's 2330-12 = 2318 before.
Pretty damn sure.
2318 before, and 2176 exact after.
I'm in samiku pi which is tier E
We don't have 100% conclusive proof but he's pretty sure of it.
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2200 plat --> 2070 diamond
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I lost about 100 points, but I got promoted way back when I only had 500 points anyway.
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United States12240 Posts
On December 31 2010 13:07 KevinIX wrote:
I lost about 100 points, but I got promoted way back when I only had 500 points anyway.
Unfortunately it's not very helpful if you just say "I lost about 100" or "I lost about 200" since we're looking for concrete, exact numbers. If even one data point is wrong there's a risk of contaminating the entire effort.
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I was in silver. I skipped gold, and got promoted directly to platinum
Silver 1450 - Platinum 1020
Seems to me like we lose 200 points per league on average.
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I was 1200 plat when I moved to diamond, and I was still 1200 O.o
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Lurker Kappa/Bronze
1601 before promotion
12(12) for the promotion
1121 after promotion
Moratun Indigo/Silver [newly created division]
So if I understand from the ladder post I would have 1601+12-1121 for points lost on the promotion. This is equal to 492. [not divisible by 63]
Oddly, if you count the bonus pool points on the promotion match 1601+24-1121 = 504. This is divisible by 63 [63*8]
Hope this helps.
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On January 05 2011 13:27 Eeryck wrote:
Lurker Kappa/Bronze
1601 before promotion
12(12) for the promotion
1121 after promotion
Moratun Indigo/Silver [newly created division]
So if I understand from the ladder post I would have 1601+12-1121 for points lost on the promotion. This is equal to 492. [not divisible by 63]
Oddly, if you count the bonus pool points on the promotion match 1601+24-1121 = 504. This is divisible by 63 [63*8]
Hope this helps.
Thanks for the data guys.
The theory of bronze having as many tiers as diamond (7) is getting stronger :D
I was (am) hoping for more bronze-silver data to confirm just that.
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On January 05 2011 14:07 SDream wrote:Show nested quote +On January 05 2011 13:27 Eeryck wrote:
Lurker Kappa/Bronze
1601 before promotion
12(12) for the promotion
1121 after promotion
Moratun Indigo/Silver [newly created division]
So if I understand from the ladder post I would have 1601+12-1121 for points lost on the promotion. This is equal to 492. [not divisible by 63]
Oddly, if you count the bonus pool points on the promotion match 1601+24-1121 = 504. This is divisible by 63 [63*8]
Hope this helps.
Thanks for the data guys. The theory of bronze having as many tiers as diamond (7) is getting stronger :D I was (am) hoping for more bronze-silver data to confirm just that.
I was very very very very terrible when I started.
Now I am just very very very very bad. It also took a lot of wins against bronze players before I got silver players, prior to promotion.
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from ~2380 gold to 2286 plat, yay :D
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I want to point out that the difference in points in promotion should be exactly the same as the
points you have - pointy you earned, coming to a final total of the total amount of bonus points you have.
At least thats my theory
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Gold-Diamond
953-636 points
New Division is Dominion Quest I forgot what my old division was.
I gained 34 points and I have a ridiculous bonus pool.
Wasn't my account but I was playing on it.
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1700 silver- 1500 gold
2000 gold - 1600 platinum
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About 150 Points. (approximatly 2370 plat to 2220 Diamond)
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When I got promoted for Platinum to Diamond, I went from being a 2500 Platinum to a 2250 Diamond. So about 250 points.
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695 Platinum -> Promotion game (+28 pts) -> 524 Diamond (Forge Hawk, US)
199 pts lost
This was back in August, so I can't remember my platinum division.
Edit: I'm fairly sure I'd used ~426 bonus pool including the promotion game if that's at all relevant.
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i was plat and promoted to diamond today. Weirdly enough,i didnt lose any point after promotion
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Lost 134 pts when I got promoted from silver to gold.
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Today with new patch and master league, it could be a very interesting opportunity to get new data, as TON of players will be promoted to Master all around the world.
So I hope some of these players remember of this topic and contributed with good data:
Points just before -> points won/lost in game -> points just after
Take note guys!!
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i went from 1.5k Platinum (1524) UP to 1650.
So gained points, i didnt think that was even possible.
edit: had a 70% win ratio if that helps
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NA
SIlver (910) => Gold (759) = 151 points lost
Gold (1602) => Plat (1438) = 164 points lost
I also went from bronze to silver, and I believe I lost about 200 points there, but SC2ranks doesn't go back that far (idk y) so I can't confirm.
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On January 11 2011 17:24 Scrimpton wrote:
i went from 1.5k Platinum (1524) UP to 1650.
So gained points, i didnt think that was even possible.
edit: had a 70% win ratio if that helps
when you get promoted you get placed within your division based on MMR, therefore if you have a high MMR you can gain points if thats the only way to place you in the right slot.
Basically how many you lose or gain is based upon where you fit in to the division you were moved to.
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in 3v3 random
393 pts (22-22) gold - pool: 2053
-> win: +42 ->
350 pts (23-22) plat - pool:2032
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I also just got promoted in my random 2x2.
Gold 301 (12+12 = 325) -> Plat 312, so I lost 13 points. Obviously it was just a random number, as I play to little in this ladder, so I had no points to lose.
Bonus pool is 2070, 2309 is the total bonus pool for a new player. So 239 points that I have are from bonus pool.
312 - 239, 73.
The same number that Excalibur discovered on master promotions, do you know what does that mean??
Most likely every time ones get promoted, you get your spent bonus pool + 73.
So my theory was wrong.
That said, thanks to everyone who contributed to this "project", but there is no more need for you guys to post how many points do you lose. I already know how much you'll lose/gain... =/
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EPT
