| Forum Index > SC2 General |
|
Koshi
Belgium38799 Posts
On October 19 2010 23:29 Woony wrote: You are saying top 20 Protoss are cheeser faggots? Top 20 toss players are currently training for MLG. I think he means a big bulk of protoss players who currently have 1500-2000 points and only play: (1) Early-mid aggressive (attacking from minute 7 till they get outmacro) (2) 4-gate Which is both ineffective against zerg atm. | ||
|
Arcanne
United States1519 Posts
| ||
|
kXn
254 Posts
| ||
|
SpurvL
Sweden345 Posts
Korean top 200  , go jinro go! | ||
|
cocosoft
Sweden1068 Posts
What dimaga on first place? What madfrog on fourth place? :D :D ! | ||
|
heishe
Germany2284 Posts
I don't mean to sound arrogant, but all the Zerg players who are clearly better than their opponents finally get the wins where in 1.0 and 1.1.0 they would lose. This practically means that a ton of Zerg players who have insane skill but who were being kept low due to balance now skyrocket up, while a majority of Protoss and Terran players who solely won because of imbalance quickly sink in rank and actually have to learn to play the game in a skillful way. This is a natural effect when observing changes after balance changes. When balance was tougher, Zerg players simply compensated by being far better than their opponents, thus keeping a 50% win raito. Now that balance is better, there skill basically shines through and they win a lot more. I wouldn't be surprised if by next week, it was like 85 zerg, 70 terran, rest protoss or something like that. And don't get me wrong, this is not because Zerg players in general are genius players or anything like that, it's just the way the human body works. If you need to pull something off which is tougher, your body will do it. So if you play Zerg and put effort into it, you will automatically be better than equally rated opponents, yet you will not win against them because of balance. If you get a job thats much much easier to pull off, your body and your brain reacts in much the same way, not letting you improve a lot because it simply isn't necessary. And now it basically begins again, most of the Protoss and Terrans actually have to gain a lot of skill to get close to the now-releases Zergs. So I guess in 1 or 2 months from now, we will have a situation again which will have a much more even representation, maybe with a few less protoss players because of tvp. | ||
|
flodeskum
Iceland1267 Posts
On October 19 2010 23:37 Koshi wrote: Top 20 toss players are currently training for MLG. I think he means a big bulk of protoss players who currently have 1500-2000 points and only play: (1) Early-mid aggressive (attacking from minute 7 till they get outmacro) (2) 4-gate Which is both ineffective against zerg atm. Yeah, I completely agree that a lot of my protoss brethren are lame ass 1-base all-in turds and that said turds can do fairly well on the ladder. But why would those guys have any effect on the top200? | ||
|
Endorsed
Netherlands1221 Posts
On October 20 2010 00:45 heishe wrote: it's going to look like this for at least another month or so. I don't mean to sound arrogant, but all the Zerg players who are clearly better than their opponents finally get the wins where in 1.0 and 1.1.0 they would lose. This practically means that a ton of Zerg players who have insane skill but who were being kept low due to balance now skyrocket up, while a majority of Protoss and Terran players who solely won because of imbalance quickly sink in rank and actually have to learn to play the game in a skillful way. This is a natural effect when observing changes after balance changes. When balance was tougher, Zerg players simply compensated by being far better than their opponents, thus keeping a 50% win raito. Now that balance is better, there skill basically shines through and they win a lot more. I wouldn't be surprised if by next week, it was like 85 zerg, 70 terran, rest protoss or something like that. And don't get me wrong, this is not because Zerg players in general are genius players or anything like that, it's just the way the human body works. If you need to pull something off which is tougher, your body will do it. So if you play Zerg and put effort into it, you will automatically be better than equally rated opponents, yet you will not win against them because of balance. If you get a job thats much much easier to pull off, your body and your brain reacts in much the same way, not letting you improve a lot because it simply isn't necessary. And now it basically begins again, most of the Protoss and Terrans actually have to gain a lot of skill to get close to the now-releases Zergs. So I guess in 1 or 2 months from now, we will have a situation again which will have a much more even representation, maybe with a few less protoss players because of tvp. Not really... I still haven't lost a game against Zerg(1600 diamond)Instead of playing and practicing most just whined about balance and stopped playing. Also tvp is probably the most balanced matchup and favors protoss in the mid/end game more so I don't get what that last sentence implies. | ||
|
Kamille
Monaco1035 Posts
| ||
|
heishe
Germany2284 Posts
On October 20 2010 00:55 Endorsed wrote: Not really... I still haven't lost a game against Zerg(1600 diamond)Instead of playing and practicing most just whined about balance and stopped playing. Also tvp is probably the most balanced matchup and favors protoss in the mid/end game more so I don't get what that last sentence implies. yes, but 1600 isn't really top200 range (in most cases, there are actually some players in the top200 which are at or below 1600 i think, but very few). At 1600 and below, ZvT was already pretty balanced after patch 1.1 since abusing effectively with Terran actually requires a solid deal of multitasking and APM, which most 1600 Terrans with 80-120 apm just don't have (I'm 1600 too btw). The same goes for Protoss. Also, know that you just might be a special case. My gut tells me that I have about 80% winratio against Terran, before and after the patch, but that doesn't have anything to do with balance. I'm just really really good at ZvT, while my ZvP totally sucks ass. And I mean that in general, I fully understand every aspect of ZvT and only lack in execution, while I don't understand many things at all in ZvP. | ||
|
Killerbot
United States106 Posts
Gotta respect the pillow. Idra #51 in Kor and Low hundreds in NA because he doesn't play NA anymore. Gotta respect the IdRAGE | ||
|
hoovehand
United Kingdom542 Posts
the terran/protoss player bases are twice as big as the zerg player base. therefore zerg SHOULD have roughly half as many representing the race in the top 200. however - the patch has only recently come out so it will of course favour zerg a lot and we'll only know for sure when it's settled down in a few weeks at least. | ||
|
heishe
Germany2284 Posts
On October 20 2010 01:14 hoovehand wrote: heishe, your argument doesn't add up i'm afraid. the terran/protoss player bases are twice as big as the zerg player base. therefore zerg SHOULD have roughly half as many representing the race in the top 200. however - the patch has only recently come out so it will of course favour zerg a lot and we'll only know for sure when it's settled down in a few weeks at least. yes, that's exactly what I'm saying. it should be something like: 25% zerg, 35% toss, rest terran in the top or something like that, but it's not like that at the moment because of what I stated. This temporary "imbalance" will level itself out once Protoss and Terrans get as good as Zerg players. By the way, you will see that the really good Terrans and Protoss players will be practically unaffected by the patch. This is why the korean top200 won't swing around as hard as it does here, where basically a majority of the top200 players were Ts and Ps who didn't understand the game really well and were there just because of imbalance. | ||
|
hoovehand
United Kingdom542 Posts
On October 20 2010 01:22 heishe wrote: yes, that's exactly what I'm saying. it should be something like: 25% zerg, 35% toss, rest terran in the top or something like that, but it's not like that at the moment because of what I stated. This temporary "imbalance" will level itself out once Protoss and Terrans get as good as Zerg players. By the way, you will see that the really good Terrans and Protoss players will be practically unaffected by the patch. This is why the korean top200 won't swing around as hard as it does here, where basically a majority of the top200 players were Ts and Ps who didn't understand the game really well and were there just because of imbalance. i don't quite know what you mean by 'get as good as zerg players'. as if to say playing as zerg was so tough that you learned how to fly when protoss and terran could be pro while crawling? believe me, if zerg was ever 'that hard' then no pro player would bother playing the race... as it stands they only won the biggest sc2 tournament to date during a zerg-weak build. listen to more than artosis and idra, because there is just a little bit of bias coming from that corner. | ||
|
Burban
48 Posts
| ||
|
Iplaythings
Denmark9110 Posts
| ||
|
heishe
Germany2284 Posts
On October 20 2010 01:26 hoovehand wrote: i don't quite know what you mean by 'get as good as zerg players'. as if to say playing as zerg was so tough that you learned how to fly when protoss and terran could be pro while crawling? believe me, if zerg was ever 'that hard' then no pro player would bother playing the race... as it stands they only won the biggest sc2 tournament to date during a zerg-weak build. listen to more than artosis and idra, because there is just a little bit of bias coming from that corner. well, the thing is, zerg really is that hard compared to toss and terran. and I'm not just saying that out of the air: I'm offracing with protoss (with a second account) and I'm now about 1400 after 90 games, without actually trying to improve (i just do it for fun so I only played 90 games in like two months). And it simply feels a lot easier. You don't need as much APM, your units are more powerful and you have more strategical choices. I haven't played Terran enough to say the same thing, but I imagine it must be similar, otherwise there wouldn't be any imbalance at all. And by easier I literally mean easier. There's just literally no game with Toss where you sweat after the game because you're exhausted and need to focus that hard etc. With Zerg it's like that basically after every game except for ZvZ maybe. and if you have any understanding about the game at all, you will know that the only reason cool won was because two terrans (top and rainbow) played very poorly and made the same mistake against him: basically doing nothing and letting him macro up all game long. otherwise he would've been out in the ro8. I mean look at delta quadrant cool vs rainbow for example. He basically started harassing for real when Cool had ultras out. | ||
|
Apolo
Portugal1259 Posts
. Will protoss be the underdog race again for pros? Seriously hope not, but it looks like it's going that way. | ||
|
Niick
Australia426 Posts
SEA 67 terran 59 zerg 65 protoss 9 random | ||
|
Barook
Germany143 Posts
We're seeing so much 4-Gates or variations because: a) It's easy to execute, b) quite effective and c) teching/tech switching as Protoss is horribly expensive and you do need Robo for Observers. | ||
| ||
StarCraft 2 StarCraft: Brood War Dota 2 League of Legends Counter-Strike Other Games summit1g11093 WinterStarcraft384 ceh9352 Happy203 Mew2King175 Fuzer  105NeuroSwarm88 KnowMe72 ViBE46 |
|
The PondCast
KCM Race Survival
WardiTV Invitational
Lambo vs Shameless
Rogue vs uThermal
Percival vs YoungYakov
TBD vs GgMaChine
OSC
OSC
ArT vs MindelVK
MiniZergUA vs TBD
Shameless vs TBD
Ultimate Battle
OSC
OSC
ByuN vs MaxPax
herO vs Krystianer
Percival vs Shameless
LetaleX vs YoungYakov
Nicoract vs Gerald
GgMaChine vs ArT
CranKy Ducklings
WardiTV Invitational
[ Show More ] |
|
|
EPT
