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Northern Ireland27377 Posts
Ange always wins something in his second season mate!
Not a super high quality final, I think somewhat understandably so. Both sides have shit seasons and it’s all on this, I imagine it’s inhibiting.
United played well against a decent Bilbao side, Spurs were pretty good and gritty against Eintracht Frankfurt. Certainly saw none of that level tonight
Maybe it’s the best outcome for both sides overall, wearing my neutral hat.
Spurs get the trophy monkey off their back. I may be somewhat blinded by quite liking Ange, but I can see them doing something with this boost, with a few decent signings and being less injury ravaged.
I guess United would like the CL money, that’s a problem. But that aside I think they just need a giant rethink and rebuild. A trophy and CL football is papering over cracks. If they’re sticking with Amorim, give him a pre-season, they’re out of Europe, actually I think that’s maybe better for that rebuild.
For Spurs I think it’s both a bigger deal for their fans, but I can see it galvanising the group and rebuilding some belief in a way I don’t really see for United.
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Ange has become a legend with this trophy now no?
Also sheesh always winning a trophy in his second season no matter where he went is crazy
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ManU and Tottenham really are Europes finest... xD
That goal couldn't have been better
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As an Arsenal fan this is the worst season of all time for me... Spurs winning a major trophy and Arsenal's last big win already 2 decades ago... The final Wenger years were actually better since Spurs also didn't win anything...
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I reckon if Arsenal stick with Arteta for another 7-8 years they'll win the league at least twice.
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On May 22 2025 20:56 Jockmcplop wrote:
I reckon if Arsenal stick with Arteta for another 7-8 years they'll win the league at least twice.
Wenger had a much higher possibility and still wasn't able to...
I think some of you guys here forget Arsenal's ridiculous net spend the past few years... Arteta was given more than every other manager. What he accomplished is the bare minimum with the money spent...
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Northern Ireland27377 Posts
On May 22 2025 21:08 sharkie wrote:Show nested quote +On May 22 2025 20:56 Jockmcplop wrote:
I reckon if Arsenal stick with Arteta for another 7-8 years they'll win the league at least twice. Wenger had a much higher possibility and still wasn't able to... I think some of you guys here forget Arsenal's ridiculous net spend the past few years... Arteta was given more than every other manager. What he accomplished is the bare minimum with the money spent...
Wenger, outside of the Leicester season where basically all the big boys underperformed and the points tally to win the league dropped, didn’t mount a league challenge for years.
His sides didn’t have a deep European campaign either in the CL
Where is this much higher possibility coming from?
Arteta spent big, can’t argue that point. Equally they’ve been building a squad that’s relatively young and can challenge for a while. Who do you sell?
Klopp’s figures are helped by Barcelona spending an insane amount on Coutinho, or City could offload academy players who struggled to get into their side for decent money. Chelsea’s model is good for the balance sheet, it’s not really delivering glory at present.
Arsenal can’t really do that if they want to be competitive. They’ve got the squad now, they probably need that final piece which is rumoured to be Gyokeres in terms of firepower. Zubimendi to anchor and free up Rice to push up further.
They’re looking a pretty formidable squad now, but there’s plenty of quality in this league. Maybe they can afford to offload some squad players now
While assembling this squad though, it’s difficult to see who they could have really sold on the ‘way up’ as it were. Their most valuable assets would be prohibitive to replace, and they need some depth.
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On May 22 2025 21:30 WombaT wrote:Show nested quote +On May 22 2025 21:08 sharkie wrote:On May 22 2025 20:56 Jockmcplop wrote:
I reckon if Arsenal stick with Arteta for another 7-8 years they'll win the league at least twice. Wenger had a much higher possibility and still wasn't able to... I think some of you guys here forget Arsenal's ridiculous net spend the past few years... Arteta was given more than every other manager. What he accomplished is the bare minimum with the money spent... Wenger, outside of the Leicester season where basically all the big boys underperformed and the points tally to win the league dropped, didn’t mount a league challenge for years. His sides didn’t have a deep European campaign either in the CL Where is this much higher possibility coming from? Arteta spent big, can’t argue that point. Equally they’ve been building a squad that’s relatively young and can challenge for a while. Who do you sell? Klopp’s figures are helped by Barcelona spending an insane amount on Coutinho, or City could offload academy players who struggled to get into their side for decent money. Chelsea’s model is good for the balance sheet, it’s not really delivering glory at present. Arsenal can’t really do that if they want to be competitive. They’ve got the squad now, they probably need that final piece which is rumoured to be Gyokeres in terms of firepower. Zubimendi to anchor and free up Rice to push up further. They’re looking a pretty formidable squad now, but there’s plenty of quality in this league. Maybe they can afford to offload some squad players now While assembling this squad though, it’s difficult to see who they could have really sold on the ‘way up’ as it were. Their most valuable assets would be prohibitive to replace, and they need some depth.
Wengers higher probability comes from that he did it before. He had to shoulder a whole new stadium, horrible finances and still managed a top4 finish every year.
Ok then just forget coutinhos transfer and compare Liverpool and Arsenal net spend please. Chelsea won a champion's league in 2021... I told everyone in here what crap signings Gabriel Jesus and Zinchenko were when Arteta did them. I was ridiculed for that.Arsenal is actually helping citys net spend haha. Agent Arteta helping his best buddy Pep.
Klopp has kept selling players on his way to the top. 'Trust the process' Arteta not managing what big Ange did with way less resources and time
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Northern Ireland27377 Posts
On May 22 2025 20:56 Jockmcplop wrote:
I reckon if Arsenal stick with Arteta for another 7-8 years they'll win the league at least twice.
It would be an atypically long time these days, but yeah I think they’d eventually get over the line.
They’ve been there or thereabouts for a while, not an Arsenal fan myself. Inter should maybe have won the league more than we have in recent years, equally I value us being contenders consistently over doing it one year and being nowhere the next.
From my neutral perspective, trying to get into the mind of an Arsenal fan, they’ve clearly stepped up into elite team territory the last few years. They’ve maybe less in the trophy cabinet to show for it, but they’re a top side now, they really weren’t 5 years ago.
It may be that Arteta is a good builder of foundations, he’s just not the guy to get you over the line. I think he can do the latter personally, given a bit of time.
But if you are to replace him with that winner, who is it?
A lot of the more exciting coaches in Europe are mostly ones who’ve punched above their weight at a lower level, and aren’t serial winners. They’ve often not got the opportunities to consistently compete for trophies. There’s maybe a potential upgrade available, but it’s a risk
And amongst serial winners, they’re not a great fit to what Arteta is built, or they’re realistically unavailable. Ancelotti is away to Brazil, Pep obviously is not a go-er, Klopp seems done with front-line coaching and I can’t see him managing another English side, Mourinho is Mourinho, Conte is a winner for sure but a good fit here? Etc etc
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Northern Ireland27377 Posts
On May 22 2025 21:47 sharkie wrote:Show nested quote +On May 22 2025 21:30 WombaT wrote:On May 22 2025 21:08 sharkie wrote:On May 22 2025 20:56 Jockmcplop wrote:
I reckon if Arsenal stick with Arteta for another 7-8 years they'll win the league at least twice. Wenger had a much higher possibility and still wasn't able to... I think some of you guys here forget Arsenal's ridiculous net spend the past few years... Arteta was given more than every other manager. What he accomplished is the bare minimum with the money spent... Wenger, outside of the Leicester season where basically all the big boys underperformed and the points tally to win the league dropped, didn’t mount a league challenge for years. His sides didn’t have a deep European campaign either in the CL Where is this much higher possibility coming from? Arteta spent big, can’t argue that point. Equally they’ve been building a squad that’s relatively young and can challenge for a while. Who do you sell? Klopp’s figures are helped by Barcelona spending an insane amount on Coutinho, or City could offload academy players who struggled to get into their side for decent money. Chelsea’s model is good for the balance sheet, it’s not really delivering glory at present. Arsenal can’t really do that if they want to be competitive. They’ve got the squad now, they probably need that final piece which is rumoured to be Gyokeres in terms of firepower. Zubimendi to anchor and free up Rice to push up further. They’re looking a pretty formidable squad now, but there’s plenty of quality in this league. Maybe they can afford to offload some squad players now While assembling this squad though, it’s difficult to see who they could have really sold on the ‘way up’ as it were. Their most valuable assets would be prohibitive to replace, and they need some depth. Wengers higher probability comes from that he did it before. He had to shoulder a whole new stadium, horrible finances and still managed a top4 finish every year. Ok then just forget coutinhos transfer and compare Liverpool and Arsenal net spend please. Chelsea won a champion's league in 2021... I told everyone in here what crap signings Gabriel Jesus and Zinchenko were when Arteta did them. I was ridiculed for that.Arsenal is actually helping citys net spend haha. Agent Arteta helping his best buddy Pep. Klopp has kept selling players on his way to the top. 'Trust the process' Arteta not managing what big Ange did with way less resources and time
He didn’t do it though. Or showed signs of being able to do it. I think Wenger is a great but at the tail end of his time he was showing his age. He raised the bar in England through professionalism, sports science and leveraging his connections to scout talent. By the end of his time everyone was just as professional, scouting was much better and the advantages he used to have evaporated. At opposite ends of the scale sure but coaching minds like Mourinho and Guardiola also were much better tactically.
Wenger competed with Ferguson despite fewer resources because he was able to get a Thierry Henry for 10 million, or a Viera for like 3.5 million. Or a Nicholas Anelka, Pires or whoever. It wasn’t that he was massively tactically better.
By tail-end Wenger, you’re not getting an Henry on the cheap anymore.
Ferguson also reinvented himself in a way Wenger never did. Or, not reinventing himself and his way of doing things, but by bringing in assistant coaches who were more on the cutting edge, who did things differently. Carlos Queiroz for example.
Chelsea won the Champion’s League with a coach you continually say isn’t a good one.
Jesus started great at Arsenal, he was a very good player for City as well. Injuries have blighted his time there unfortunately, and this wasn’t wholly predictable as he had less problems at City there. If he’d have been as consistently crocked there as he’d been at Arsenal, yeah awful signing. As it were, a bit unfortunate. Zinchenko is a good player, and a versatile one, decent signing if not an amazing one.
Arteta worked at City and saw these guys every day and what they could do. And also would have known their personalities first hand. I think it’s perfectly reasonable to go for them.
Just because you’re not a regular starter for City doesn’t mean you’re not a quality player, just look at Cole Palmer.
Ange managed an unbelievably bad domestic season, and a Europa league. How is that better than second in the league and in the semis of the CL? Arsenal did well in the new CL league phase, but even if they didn’t, the option to drop to the Europa isn’t there.
If we just arbitrarily stuck Arsenal into the Europa League, do we really think they’re not winning it?
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Yes because Arsenal had many chances to win the europa league and didnt... Spurs are in there and win it with big Ange...
Also yes. A major European trophy is better than winning nothing..this season will only have any meaning if arsenal wins premier League or champions League next year. If Arteta fails again the first half of decade of 2020s will be spurs > Arsenal. North london trophy parade and its not arsenal...
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Northern Ireland27377 Posts
On May 22 2025 22:38 sharkie wrote:
Yes because Arsenal had many chances to win the europa league and didnt... Spurs are in there and win it with big Ange...
Also yes. A major European trophy is better than winning nothing..this season will only have any meaning if arsenal wins premier League or champions League next year. If Arteta fails again the first half of decade of 2020s will be spurs > Arsenal. North london trophy parade and its not arsenal...
If trophies are so important can’t they just sacrifice the league and win an FA or League Cup?
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When you check of how successful clubs were in the past do you check overall league placements or trophies?
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Northern Ireland27377 Posts
On May 22 2025 22:53 sharkie wrote:
When you check of how successful clubs were in the past do you check overall league placements or trophies?
If I was there, how good they were. If it’s before my time as it were, trophies perhaps.
Lippi’s Juventus or Pep’s Barca were absolutely Europe’s best even if they didn’t win the trophies every time. Zidane’s/Ancelotti got over the line more, I don’t think they’re necessarily better.
Spurs had a great Europa run, they’ve been fucking awful in the league. Arsenal are likely to be runner’s up in Europe’s most competitive top tier league, made the CL semis and gave a good account of themselves. Much better season.
My Inter may yet end up mostly empty-handed but we’ve had a far better season than every other Italian side. Deep domestic cup run, could maybe scrape the league, although unlikely and in a CL final.
In totality I take that, even if we win nothing.
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Lots of media summed it up perfectly. Spurs last European cup was 1984. Not a single person remembers how arsenal did in the league that year.
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Norway28894 Posts
So what? Nobody actually remembers that Spurs won the european cup in 1984 either, it's just brought up because they just did it. If you asked people 3 months ago when the last time Spurs won the EC only the biggest trivia nerds would know.
It's so plainly obvious that second place in the league and semi final in the champions league is a vastly superior season to 15th place (or whatever) in the same league coupled with a Europa league win, that it's not really worth arguing. If United had happened to win the final, their season would still overall be a disaster.
The fact is - the league (of top 4 leagues) and CL are all way more important and prestigeous than the EL. An EL victory is at best comparable to a top 4 place - because that's what it gives - but if you look at performance, then 15 place coupled with an EL win is overall a less impressive season than bombing out of CL group stage and getting fourth place in the league. Arsenal got to the semi final (destroying Real Madrid 5-1 - their (tied) biggest CL loss since 2008/09, and got second place in the league. The league performance is a bit disappointing tbh - but even then, miles ahead of Tottenham, and CL semi finals is obviously vastly superior to an EL win. I mean fucking hell, Tottenham's semi final opponent was Bodø-Glimt and their final opponent was Manchester United - while Arsenal was arguably unlucky to lose against a stellar-looking PSG.
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Northern Ireland27377 Posts
On May 23 2025 02:49 sharkie wrote:
Lots of media summed it up perfectly. Spurs last European cup was 1984. Not a single person remembers how arsenal did in the league that year.
People alive would.
Inter are heavy underdogs going into the last Serie A gameweek. They made the Coppa Semis, they COULD win Serie A and they’re in the CL final.
If they don’t win either Serie A or the CL, to me it doesn’t matter really. I’d like us to win them. Overall we’re clearly the best side in Italy regardless. If Conte’s Napoli beat us, well they exited the Coppa early, weren’t in Europe at all. They played like 15+ less games than us. Nobody else did anything of note in big European comps.
My brother actually is a Spurs fan. He’s happy with the trophy but he much rather be in Arsenal’s, or Inter’s position
People still wax lyrical about Cruyff’s Holland sides, or Brazil 82, even though they didn’t win those World Cups. Or indeed the ‘Magical Magyars’ of the 50s.
It’s not always about winning, and it’s certainly not about winning second tier comps
They captured the imagination far more than the sides who actually won, and will continue to do do.
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Arteta's first 6 league finishes are slightly better than Alex Ferguson's were at United.
I know its old school thinking but for me keeping a good manager gives them the opportunity to get better and better. Arteta hasn't lost his dressing room, his results are very good, and his prospects at Arsenal are fantastic.
They have outperformed City and Liverpool in individual seasons, who are their main rivals, they just haven't put it all together yet.
It'll happen for him.
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Northern Ireland27377 Posts
On May 23 2025 03:43 Liquid`Drone wrote:
So what? Nobody actually remembers that Spurs won the european cup in 1984 either, it's just brought up because they just did it. If you asked people 3 months ago when the last time Spurs won the EC only the biggest trivia nerds would know.
It's so plainly obvious that second place in the league and semi final in the champions league is a vastly superior season to 15th place (or whatever) in the same league coupled with a Europa league win, that it's not really worth arguing. If United had happened to win the final, their season would still overall be a disaster.
The fact is - the league (of top 4 leagues) and CL are all way more important and prestigeous than the EL. An EL victory is at best comparable to a top 4 place - because that's what it gives - but if you look at performance, then 15 place coupled with an EL win is overall a less impressive season than bombing out of CL group stage and getting fourth place in the league. Arsenal got to the semi final (destroying Real Madrid 5-1 - their (tied) biggest CL loss since 2008/09, and got second place in the league. The league performance is a bit disappointing tbh - but even then, miles ahead of Tottenham, and CL semi finals is obviously vastly superior to an EL win. I mean fucking hell, Tottenham's semi final opponent was Bodø-Glimt and their final opponent was Manchester United - while Arsenal was arguably unlucky to lose against a stellar-looking PSG.
And they weren’t great but Arsenal could have conceivably won that one. 2 of the saves Gianluigi Donnarumma pulled off in the tie are among the best saves I’ve ever seen, unbelievable. He’s not a force of immutable nature, he’s a member of the opposing team, so it’s not ‘luck’ as it were. Just as it’s not luck that Courtouis players an absolutely blinder about Liverpool.
But those are the thin margins of an elite, elite tie.
Drop a level down and come the fuck on, Onana should save that. 100% The level just isn’t as high.
The idea Spurs had a better season is crazy. They’re not competing at the elite level.
It’s like saying MaxPax is comparable to Serral or something
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On May 23 2025 03:43 Liquid`Drone wrote:
So what? Nobody actually remembers that Spurs won the european cup in 1984 either, it's just brought up because they just did it. If you asked people 3 months ago when the last time Spurs won the EC only the biggest trivia nerds would know.
It's so plainly obvious that second place in the league and semi final in the champions league is a vastly superior season to 15th place (or whatever) in the same league coupled with a Europa league win, that it's not really worth arguing. If United had happened to win the final, their season would still overall be a disaster.
The fact is - the league (of top 4 leagues) and CL are all way more important and prestigeous than the EL. An EL victory is at best comparable to a top 4 place - because that's what it gives - but if you look at performance, then 15 place coupled with an EL win is overall a less impressive season than bombing out of CL group stage and getting fourth place in the league. Arsenal got to the semi final (destroying Real Madrid 5-1 - their (tied) biggest CL loss since 2008/09, and got second place in the league. The league performance is a bit disappointing tbh - but even then, miles ahead of Tottenham, and CL semi finals is obviously vastly superior to an EL win. I mean fucking hell, Tottenham's semi final opponent was Bodø-Glimt and their final opponent was Manchester United - while Arsenal was arguably unlucky to lose against a stellar-looking PSG.
People can look up Spurs European trophies and would see that or just look at past winners of uefa cup and would see it. And people do look up that sort of stuff. It's prolly a trivia question in England too. So yes it matters more. I never said it saves Spurs season. Ot jist makes Arsenal's season even worse. The only reason you guys think Arsenal had a better season is because there is a possibility of major trophies in the future. If arteta will continue his winless being then ever single arsenal fan would trade with spurs
Also Inter fan not caring about not winning this season: well would you say the same if inter hadnt won a championship since 2004? I dont think so
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EPT
