ya , saying Wiggins is below average is a really radical viewpoint. better be careful with that crazy talk.

dude.. if i were to go through all your basic spelling mistakes and grammar errors...

On December 29 2017 05:23 JimmiC wrote:
Capitalizing the start of sentences is not difficult, and it makes you look dumb. Up to you though.

I was complementing your article, though I'm unsure if you read it since he says there is a very large margin for error, and he wishes he added a scouts take since that would fill in some of the errors.

As I stated that is not fact, there was one game where he didn't play in the 4th, and you are right about good coaching to leave someone out if someone or a different lineup is doing better. Pretending it is happening over and over is plain wrong. As I mentioned he played over 40 last night. Scored efficiently and defended like a beast. Butler is far and away the best player on the Wolves. Towns is number 2, but last night Wiggins was the second best. Then again you think Towns is their worst starter, which is why taking you with a grain of salt is wise.

no, i said Towns is their worst defender. your comment back then was "Towns is the weak link".
i backed it with observations + stats.

On December 29 2017 05:23 JimmiC wrote:
Scored efficiently and defended like a beast.

any how, during the final 12 minutes of the game Wiggins was on the floor Denver scored 30 points. Minnesota's defense wasn't very good and Wiggins deserves part of the blame.

in overtime, did Wiggins even touch the ball? it was all Butler and i think he made 1 pass to Crawford and he hit a shot.

On a positive note, in the final 12 minutes of the game Butler was great.

i stated that Thibodeau pulls Wiggins when they are losing. Now i'm repeating that. They were not losing when Wiggins was put in with 7 minutes left in the 4th quarter.

On December 29 2017 05:23 JimmiC wrote:
Butler is far and away the best player on the Wolves. Towns is number 2, but last night Wiggins was the second best. Then again you think Towns is their worst starter, which is why taking you with a grain of salt is wise.

no , i said Towns is Minnesota's worst defender. you agreed by saying "He is the weak link".
http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/sports/526388-nba-season-2017-2018?page=38#751

several weeks after posting this ... it is interesting that the BBallBreakdown coach guy agrees... but for totally different reasons.

i'd say, right now, Wiggins is their worst starter which is why Thibodeau has created a new line up to start comebacks. Butler//Teague//Crawford//Gibson//Towns. Its the 'every starter but Wiggins' line up.

Final Thoughts on Last Night's Min/Denver Game
if Teague is hurt we'll get a chance to see Tyus Jones do his thing. He has progressed so much in 1 year and is probably the best 2nd string PG in the NBA. He is definitely a better defender than Teague right now. His ability to anticipate the "next thing" an opposing offense will do in half court is way better than Teague's.

Jones is a good example of the kind of growth one hopes to see in a player in their early 20s. Its the kind of growth Wiggins has yet to exhibit.

JimmiC

Canada22817 Posts

December 28 2017 21:25 GMT

#1363

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JimmyJRaynor

Canada17708 Posts

December 28 2017 21:59 GMT

#1364

Wiggins had the worst defensive rating of any Timberwolf player in last nights Minnie/Denver game. i don't think he "defended like a beast".

JimmiC

Canada22817 Posts

December 28 2017 22:04 GMT

#1365

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Nemireck

Canada1875 Posts

December 28 2017 22:43 GMT

#1366

LOL JimmiC,

You really can't help it, can you? Dude has you "RAPM'd" around his finger.

JimmiC

Canada22817 Posts

December 28 2017 23:02 GMT

#1367

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JimmyJRaynor

Canada17708 Posts

December 29 2017 03:14 GMT

#1368

minnesota's amazing defense, especially with Wiggins in, really coming through here in the 4th quarter.

On December 29 2017 07:04 JimmiC wrote:
Right, you wouldn't. However me, and all the other twolves fans watching the game, commenting thought he did. Odd how that is different.

But then again you think Taj and Teague are better then KAT so like I said your opinion and the way you use stats holds little to no value with me and to be real, with most who have read your posts.

against Denver? LOL. wow, Denver's got the best offense in the NBA. what a great job by Minnesota limiting their squad of super elite offensive talent.

minnesota played poor defense in general and wiggins was bad.
they gave up 125 points in 52 minutes playing at a pokey slow pace.
that's bad defense man.

On December 29 2017 06:25 JimmiC wrote:
Also why do you post the same links over and over,

a lot more than RAPM says wiggins is a below average defender.

Twinkle Toes

United States3605 Posts

December 29 2017 03:21 GMT

#1369

Guys I have a few questions:

Is there really an objective, absolute, and reliable stat/method to determine player value? (And let's be generous by "player value" here for the sake of discussion, it can mean being the best overall player, best offensive player, #278 defensive player, worst help defender, etc. As long as you qualify and indicate what is being measured, it's all good.)
Supposing there are, what is the point of discussing it to death repeatedly with strangers on an online forum? A little discussion and disagreement is ok, but a drawn out one with no clear conclusion or at least middle ground in sight? Unless we are professional statisticians being paid to assess player value, there is really no need to get this serious.
Finally, if you are proven wrong with your methods and statements, would you be willing to admit it so we could have a healthy atmosphere for discussion here?

It's no biggie to be honest. Even professional sports pundits and maths people make room for margin of errors and noise. I used to guilty of this, but that was not really about the validity of the stats but about one person making ridiculous claims and not backing them up. But it's hopeless. I think I speak for most here when I say that a good in-depth discussion on stats between experts is good and welcome, as it gives us a new dimension to appreciate the game. But as far as the discussion here goes, they are rarely "expert" nor "productive" in any sense. One guy just keeps saying the same things no matter what, and the entire discussion just gets more and more needlessly complicated, with no indication of actually resolving the points of disagreement. Without this, it is safe to say that most of us can do with just enjoying the game and knowing about a few relatable stats.

Let's have a reasonable discussion based on facts and respect, ok?

JimmyJRaynor

Canada17708 Posts

December 29 2017 03:23 GMT

#1370

let's not. Minnesota's defense just got rolled by an average NBA offense. They were especially ineffective with KAT and Wiggins in the game at the same time.

JimmiC

Canada22817 Posts

December 29 2017 03:28 GMT

#1371

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JimmyJRaynor

Canada17708 Posts

December 29 2017 03:32 GMT

#1372

yep i watched it. wiggins played below average defense. i carefully watched the last 12 minutes when they gave up 30 points.
Butler played superman in overtime while wiggins stood on the 3 point line... one time deep into the shot clock wiggins was scratching his head standing stiff legged. LOL.

and their defense got rolled again tonight.

JimmiC

Canada22817 Posts

December 29 2017 03:35 GMT

#1373

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JimmyJRaynor

Canada17708 Posts

December 29 2017 03:43 GMT

#1374

what the hell was harden doing?

On December 29 2017 12:35 JimmiC wrote:

Show nested quote +

Glad you were watching so well. Game tonight didnt go to OT.

ROLF this is funnier then when you missed that 2 starters were not playing for the raps in a game last year watching with scouts eyes.

would u like to review every play and every detail?
can we also go through tonight's game with the Bucks as well?