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2014 - 2015 Football Thread - Page 12

Forum Index > Sports
Post a Reply
Prev 1 10 11 12 13 14 832 Next
Pandemona *
Profile Blog Joined March 2011
Charlie Sheens House51493 Posts
July 08 2014 15:27 GMT
#221
On July 09 2014 00:22 GizmoPT wrote:
Show nested quote +
On July 09 2014 00:20 Pandemona wrote:
On July 09 2014 00:08 warding wrote:
On July 08 2014 23:54 Pandemona wrote:
Well would you say the same about boxing then?
Could Muhamad Ali of tamed a Klitchsko in his prime? Could Mike Tyson/Lenox Lewis go toe to toe with Ali and Foreman?

These are the questions that everyone has a view on but no one ever brings up, well they fought in a time without really hardcore training so they werent fighting top elite level athletes. No, but they still swung their arms as hard as they could to try and knock eachother out. They also didn't get as much protection in terms of gloves and what not.

Like Zeo said, Di Stefano and Eusiebo etcetc did what they did whilst getting tackled by the most severe of challenges and still carrying on. They were getting kneed into the back like Neymar was every second of the game, let alone once a blue moon like we see today.
Also playing on terrible pitches and still bringing "samba" like style to the game shows more than class it shows brilliance. To do that with a ball as heavy as a medicine ball and mud pitches holding it up would of been brilliant to see.
Not saying Messi and Ronaldo couldn't do the same thing back then as we would never know the differences, but to completely rule it out is bad and unfair.

My argument is purely based on a statistical view of things. I don't know if it holds for boxing - are there more pro boxers today than in the 60's and 70's?

Here, I made a drawing to try to show what I mean more clearly:
+ Show Spoiler +
[image loading]

The idea is that the curves have the same shape, but since today's curve is much larger - since there are so many more professional players training at top level - standing out today among all of them means you're further out as an outlier than before.


Yeah i agree with that point but you still cannot classify whether or not he was better or worst than Messi of today is my argument that is all. What your saying about levels of players in todays game is completely true, to make it as a professional footballer now you have to some huge fucking talent or do something no one else can do. Whether it be run 100mph with the ball glued to your feet or cross a ball pin point accurately.

On July 09 2014 00:11 GizmoPT wrote:
by the end of the day we will have a scientific study here... wtf guys ? Di Stefano died and all you guys can argue is herp derp Messi is better derp by your logic maybe Bruma > Eusebio k thx and those graphics are subjective as hell lol

dont compare different eras.. doesnt make any sense..


Pretty sure Eder > Eusebio? xDDDDDDDDDD


maybe i mean you never know maybe back then Eder would have been the best player ever you never know right ? lol..


Hahaha :3
But yeah good discussion with another never ending outcome. Damn we are good at finding these in this thread xD
ModeratorTeam Liquid Football Thread Guru! - Chelsea FC ♥
warding
Profile Joined August 2005
Portugal2397 Posts
July 08 2014 15:28 GMT
#222
RvB yes, it is possible that Di Stefano was actually better or even much better. I'm only arguing that probably not.
Micro_Jackson
Profile Joined August 2011
Germany2002 Posts
July 08 2014 15:34 GMT
#223
With all these stats you have to keep in mind that back then carreers were longer as long as there werent big injuries. Di Stefano played his last games in his early 40s, Messi will not last that long.
SatedSC2
Profile Blog Joined March 2014
England3012 Posts
Last Edited: 2014-07-08 15:43:43
July 08 2014 15:37 GMT
#224
--- Nuked ---
lprk
Profile Joined September 2013
Poland2249 Posts
July 08 2014 15:41 GMT
#225
On July 09 2014 00:37 SatedSC2 wrote:
If human's do something long enough, we get better at it. That's an indisputable fact. It's harder to pinpoint it in sports like football were there are a boatload of factors involved, but if we look at something more clean-cut then we'll start to see the truth of it. For instance, only one athlete had officially run 100M in under 10 seconds when Pele retired (1977), whereas now you're considered noncompetitive if you're not going under 10 seconds consistently.

Basically it's a silly discussion. People are just too incapable of removing rose-tinted glasses for it to be worth talking about :S Players from these sort of eras wouldn't be able to keep up with the modern game, yet alone do well. Messi is better than Pele ever was, Ronaldo is better than Best ever was, Neuer is better than Banks ever was etc.

"Getting better" is mainly technological development, not that suddenly for some reason people are born with higher abilities or something, so if the person trains with better equipment, better training regime, uses better nourishments etc they will get better results.
SatedSC2
Profile Blog Joined March 2014
England3012 Posts
July 08 2014 15:42 GMT
#226
--- Nuked ---
lprk
Profile Joined September 2013
Poland2249 Posts
July 08 2014 15:48 GMT
#227
On July 09 2014 00:42 SatedSC2 wrote:
Show nested quote +
On July 09 2014 00:41 lprk wrote:
On July 09 2014 00:37 SatedSC2 wrote:
If human's do something long enough, we get better at it. That's an indisputable fact. It's harder to pinpoint it in sports like football were there are a boatload of factors involved, but if we look at something more clean-cut then we'll start to see the truth of it. For instance, only one athlete had officially run 100M in under 10 seconds when Pele retired (1977), whereas now you're considered noncompetitive if you're not going under 10 seconds consistently.

Basically it's a silly discussion. People are just too incapable of removing rose-tinted glasses for it to be worth talking about :S Players from these sort of eras wouldn't be able to keep up with the modern game, yet alone do well. Messi is better than Pele ever was, Ronaldo is better than Best ever was, Neuer is better than Banks ever was etc.

"Getting better" is mainly technological development, not that suddenly for some reason people are born with higher abilities or something, so if the person trains with better equipment, better training regime, uses better nourishments etc they will get better results.

That's kinda my whole point >_>;

You said that players from certain eras wouldn't be able to keep up with the game nowadays, but they would have access to the same technology as today's players, so we will never know.
SatedSC2
Profile Blog Joined March 2014
England3012 Posts
Last Edited: 2014-07-08 15:55:35
July 08 2014 15:53 GMT
#228
--- Nuked ---
aseq
Profile Joined January 2003
Netherlands4025 Posts
July 08 2014 15:57 GMT
#229
On July 09 2014 00:41 lprk wrote:
Show nested quote +
On July 09 2014 00:37 SatedSC2 wrote:
If human's do something long enough, we get better at it. That's an indisputable fact. It's harder to pinpoint it in sports like football were there are a boatload of factors involved, but if we look at something more clean-cut then we'll start to see the truth of it. For instance, only one athlete had officially run 100M in under 10 seconds when Pele retired (1977), whereas now you're considered noncompetitive if you're not going under 10 seconds consistently.

Basically it's a silly discussion. People are just too incapable of removing rose-tinted glasses for it to be worth talking about :S Players from these sort of eras wouldn't be able to keep up with the modern game, yet alone do well. Messi is better than Pele ever was, Ronaldo is better than Best ever was, Neuer is better than Banks ever was etc.

"Getting better" is mainly technological development, not that suddenly for some reason people are born with higher abilities or something, so if the person trains with better equipment, better training regime, uses better nourishments etc they will get better results.

Agreed, the evolutionary impact on this development is minimal. But 'technological development' might go as far as healthier parents giving birth to healthier children providing a head start for a newer generation (this may make a big difference in developing countries). So I think we all agree we can't know for sure which legend is more outstanding, but statistically it's becoming harder and harder to become a true legend (like Bolt, Messi, Jaedong :p) whereas lots of kids of 15 today can think up Pythagoras' Theorem nowadays, play Bach, do a 720 in skating. I don't think the activity really matters, odds are more and more against you becoming a legend. Better do nothing and watch the WC then.
GizmoPT
Profile Joined May 2010
Portugal3040 Posts
July 08 2014 16:42 GMT
#230
hmm

The Agent Sam™ @TheAgentSam · 2h
Arsenal Wants To Sign Algeria And Sporting Lisbon Striker Islam Slimani. Bid Could Be Launched Soon. #Confirmed #AFC
Snipers Promod & Micro Arena Creator in SC2 Arcade - Portuguese Community Admin for SC2, HotS and Overwatch - Ex-Portugal SC2 Team Manager, Ex- Copenhagen Wolves and Grow uP Gaming Manager in SC2. Just Playing games now!
haitike
Profile Joined June 2009
Spain2744 Posts
Last Edited: 2014-07-08 16:57:09
July 08 2014 16:56 GMT
#231
In Spain Di Stefano most of the time become a debate with Barcelona fans claiming that Real Madrid stole him to Barcelona because Franco Regimen (the spanish dictator).

It is sad, but it is quite usual xD
Salteador Neo
Profile Blog Joined August 2009
Andorra5591 Posts
July 08 2014 17:41 GMT
#232
It is sad and it is true xD There's no debate to be had really.

Kubala + Di Stefano would have been way too op.
Revolutionist fan
GizmoPT
Profile Joined May 2010
Portugal3040 Posts
Last Edited: 2014-07-08 20:38:32
July 08 2014 20:38 GMT
#233
(wrong)
Snipers Promod & Micro Arena Creator in SC2 Arcade - Portuguese Community Admin for SC2, HotS and Overwatch - Ex-Portugal SC2 Team Manager, Ex- Copenhagen Wolves and Grow uP Gaming Manager in SC2. Just Playing games now!
Silver Streak
Profile Joined August 2013
Finland4 Posts
Last Edited: 2014-07-08 21:37:39
July 08 2014 20:45 GMT
#234
(wrong)
The bad touch
Greg_J
Profile Blog Joined July 2010
China4409 Posts
July 08 2014 22:01 GMT
#235
Wow what a thrashing I can't believe it....... I never saw it coming....

Levadia Tallinn (Estonia) 7:0 La Fiorita (San Marino) (8:0 Agg)

Tallinn win the right to play Sparta Prague (who I have actually heard of) in the next round.
zulu_nation8
Profile Blog Joined May 2005
China26351 Posts
July 08 2014 22:06 GMT
#236
sparta prague have a great history, but yea, never saw this coming, great day for estonia!
Pandemona *
Profile Blog Joined March 2011
Charlie Sheens House51493 Posts
July 09 2014 07:54 GMT
#237
Chelsea begin pre season training today :s
The non world cup players who haven't gone to the world cup restart. John Terry - Matic - Salah - Ivanovic the noteable players alongside academy stars to begin training.

Crazy xD Season is ages away!
ModeratorTeam Liquid Football Thread Guru! - Chelsea FC ♥
wingpawn
Profile Blog Joined June 2013
Poland1342 Posts
July 09 2014 08:12 GMT
#238
Transfer News

Real Madrid has rejected various £1 million bids for their left-back Marcelo, claiming that the Brazilian can only leave the club on a free transfer this summer.

David Luiz has failed a medical in PSG after MRI revealed a big brain aneurysm in his head. However, the former Chelsea star is still being chased by Barcelona that considers him "an excellent addition to the likes of Gerard Pique and Marc Bartra".

With Luiz's deal collapsing, PSG has offered a deal of Marquinhos and Salvatore Sirigu plus £50 million in a part exchange for FC Bayern centre-back Manuel Neuer.

FC Bayern management has offered Dante to various clubs for a total fee of £25 million. Such fee is to be paid by FC Bayern as soon as the Brazilian leaves the club, pundits say.

Bayern is also looking to sign another striker. Brazilian stars Fred and Jô are on the cards, after Pep Guardiola praised them both for being "the best false nines in the world right now".

S.S. Lazio has finally offered a ten-year contract extension to German star Miroslav Klose, who has rejected the offers from Real Madrid and Manchester United earlier this summer.

Toni Kroos, who's been linked with Real Madrid move this summer is also a subject of interest from Juventus, PSG, Manchester City, Chelsea, Barcelona, Liverpool, Atletico Madrid and every other team in Europe, with an exception of Arsenal.

After a poor showing in World Cup, Belgium's star Eden Hazard is open to join Stoke City for loan switch with André Schürrle reported to be his replacement at Chelsea.

Meanwhile on Emirates: Arsene Wenger is breathing.
SatedSC2
Profile Blog Joined March 2014
England3012 Posts
Last Edited: 2014-07-09 08:18:01
July 09 2014 08:17 GMT
#239
--- Nuked ---
anomalopidae
Profile Blog Joined September 2010
Slovenia549 Posts
July 09 2014 08:52 GMT
#240
Nice troll transfer news there wingpawn, got me till big aneurysm D
Imagine a place where the Alps meet the Mediterranean, where you can pick autumn fruits in the morning, bathe in the Adriatic in the afternoon, and go night skiing in the evening…It’s Slovenia!
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