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L_Master other than the general advice about how to hit the golf ball, it seems like your main answer as to how to improve in golf (long game, let's say) is to watch lots of sound swings and compare them to your own swing by using video and/or mirrors. In the past I have not had much luck with that... (A) because I did not have a spot to do this 'mirror work' and (B) because I did not have the ability to record quality video at a time when I was actually hitting golf balls... doing it in your backyard without hitting a ball of course isn't as useful since you don't know how effective a swing you are analyzing was at hitting the ball well. Perhaps this is one of the reasons why working with a pro seemed so necessary to me. Overall, I've found it very difficult to identify what I did wrong much of the time (of course, sometimes it's obvious what you did wrong, or at least one of the things you did wrong).
I want to be clear I'm not saying this is the best way. It's just a method that worked for me, since you asked about getting respectable in skill without having tons of lessons.
One thing worth mentioning here is that much of it just comes down to practice. The idea behind knowing what a good swing looks like and using that as a basis for your own is that you will have relatively good fundamentals. However, a big part of it is just practice; getting in the repetitions. Even pro golfers hit lots of bad shots. Their swing, their fundamentals anyway, are not to blame. They just did something wrong that time. If Tiger duck hooks one of the tee that doesn't mean he needs to go overhaul his swing...he just didn't execute in that instance.
I bring that up to suggest that just because you hit some bad shots doesn't mean you need to fix your swing. It just means you haven't practiced enough to make the same swing everytime, and have the timing and coordination for squaring up the face. You only get alot of that from practice. I could have you make air swings until your swing looked like Tiger's and if I then put you on the range you would still be a 15 handicap because the timing and consistently wouldn't be there.
I used video/knowledge of good swings to ensure I didn't develop any super shitty fundamentals, but by and large the secret as Hogan said "is in the dirt". The main reason I get fairly good is that I hit 500 balls a day for 4 summers.
This is something I still have trouble fully buying into even many years later... if I have to choose between not suddenly pushing/slicing my drive on #2 in to the woods OB, or, after missing the green, two putting for bogie on hole 3 when I probably could have gone up and down for par, I will honestly choose the former.
You picked the most extreme example. You are correct though. The most egregious fault one can make in golf is hitting the ball out of play. Aside from that though the effects of short game are vastly more significant. Take the difference between a good drive that goes lets say 280 down the middle leaving 120 into the pin, or a 220 yard little squinter that ends up in the rough. If you have a good short game, you are very likely to make par from both spot. You might make birdie a little more often from 120, but even for scratch players that's a rare event. So that drive saves you...we'll call it .3 of a stroke. If you are the typical 15-20 handicap, you usually make bogey or double from 180 in the rough, which is giving up 1-2 shots.
Good drives marginally increase the opportunity to make birdie. Good putting and chipping outright saves you a shot.
Short game question: two different pros I spoke to seemed to have different philosophies about chipping... one suggested treating it like a putt and keeping the arms more or less stiff... the other advocated using the wrists (not completely, but not locking them either) in tandem with a small upper body rotation... are both valid? Is one ridiculous? The latter seems to have more potential for shots that don't run much when they land, but seem to be trickier to learn.
Except for very short chips there will always be some natural wrist break. The thought of trying to hit a 30 yard pitch with no wrist break is comical and horribly unnatural. You could use that putting motion if you like to play little chips with lower lofted irons or are playing a 3-wood from the rough/fringe border. Wrists shouldn't get heavily involved, but they should be involved similar to how they would be for your normal swing. "Quiet wrists" on the downswing and follow through is a good way to think of it, unless you really need to get the ball way up in the air.
setting your putts up with good approach shots is also really important, 3 or 4 feet closer on the approach is often the difference between 1 or 2 putts for me
Very true. Just look at tour pros. From:
<3 feet - 99%
6 feet - 62%
10 feet - 57%
10-15 feet - 33%
15-20 feet - 15%
It drops off fast. The difference between chipping to 3 feet and 6 or 7 feet is MASSIVE. Roughly you save half a stroke every-time you chip the ball inside 3 feet versus chipping to 6 feet...and that is if you are a tour pro, I suspect it's even greater for amateurs.
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28104 Posts
My stats are probably something like this
<3 feet - 50
6 feet - 10
10 feet - 1
10-15 feet - 0.1
15-20 feet - I wish
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On March 15 2014 04:30 TheEmulator wrote:
I usually hit around 290. Over 300 a few times in a round when I go full out on par 5's. I don't really keep track of my distance, but when I do it's rarely under 275. But distance has always come naturally to me since I'm 6'4 and have long arms. Also been an athlete my whole life.
I think I swing around 110-120 mph whenever I go to Golf Town and use their monitors. My favourite thing about being a long hitter is that I can use my PW from like 150-160 yards, lol. Makes approach shots so easy.
edit: I hit it extremely high though, I think I might get more distance with better trajectory. But hitting it high looks super cool.
I think you've got me by a touch.
I'm usually around 310-320 for a really solid drive....but I live at 6000' so you gotta whack 10% or so off of that. My swing speed usually is around low 110's, and I remember if I swung out of my shoes I could get up to about 116 or so.
I'm like you in terms of irons, in fact I'd say I hit them disproportionately long compared to my drive. For me a comfortable 9-iron is around 180, a 7 around 200, and a 5 about 220. Again, knock 10% or so off for a sea level comparison.
I hate to think what I could do with your height though, as I am a smaller guy at just 5'8". That extra arc would make it easy to murder the ball.
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On March 15 2014 09:18 TheEmulator wrote:
My stats are probably something like this
<3 feet - 50
6 feet - 10
10 feet - 1
10-15 feet - 0.1
15-20 feet - I wish
And there you have the difference between a tour pro and a 3 index 
I can't imagine you are 50% from 3 feet though. That would be just ungodly frustrating. With those stats you'd probably 3 putt 3-4+ times per round, and would be lucky to get up and down once per round.
Fuuccckkkk all this golf talk is really making me want to go play 
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28104 Posts
haha yeah, I really want to play as well. Fuck these stupid Canadian Winters
I was definitely exaggerating a bit with the 50 percent from 3 feet btw. Just making a point about how bad my putting is, but it's not really THAT bad.
Your distances are great for being 5'8. My irons are probably a little shorter than that, but the same if you consider the altitude like you mentioned. Next time I go on a monitor I want to try swinging my driver full out to see what I can really do. That is if I actually hit the ball.
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United States24813 Posts
I'm moving to DC in a couple of days, so I took a look at the local golf options. The first thing I need (for long game) is a driving range... I take it they don't appreciate you shelling golf balls at the white house from the mall. Nearby options (I'm going to be right near the Nationals Ball Park) seem to be East Potomac Golf Course and Army Navy Country Club. When I feel ready to play, other options include driving over to my alma mater, University of Maryland Golf Course, Langston Golf Course, and other slightly far courses. The area isn't quite Long Island with 5 golf courses per square millimeter, but there still seem to be plenty of options if you have a car.
Short game I will have to wait and see what is available, I suppose.
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28104 Posts
Find a place that not only has a range, but also gives you unlimited access and buckets. My club has that and sometimes I just go there and hit like 5 buckets after a round. It wrecks my hands, but worth it 
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My friend belongs to a really nice place like that where you can just go hit as many balls on the range as long as you want, no charge. Its awesome
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On March 15 2014 09:51 micronesia wrote:I'm moving to DC in a couple of days, so I took a look at the local golf options. The first thing I need (for long game) is a driving range... I take it they don't appreciate you shelling golf balls at the white house from the mall. Nearby options (I'm going to be right near the Nationals Ball Park) seem to be East Potomac Golf Course and Army Navy Country Club. When I feel ready to play, other options include driving over to my alma mater, University of Maryland Golf Course, Langston Golf Course, and other slightly far courses. The area isn't quite Long Island with 5 golf courses per square millimeter, but there still seem to be plenty of options if you have a car. Short game I will have to wait and see what is available, I suppose.
wow welcome to my neck of the woods. there's tons of options in Northern VA/Fairfax area (where I live) but that's a good 20-30 miles outside DC, car definitely required.
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On March 15 2014 09:59 TheEmulator wrote:Find a place that not only has a range, but also gives you unlimited access and buckets. My club has that and sometimes I just go there and hit like 5 buckets after a round. It wrecks my hands, but worth it
Those were the days. We had one 70 degree day about a week ago. Hit a medium bag of 45 balls and had two massive blisters.
I used to hit 500 in a day no problem...
not only being able to play for a few years has taken its toll.
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28104 Posts
I go enough that at some point my hands become immune. But the first few weeks of the year are terrible for blisters on my hands, and sometimes even my feet from walking too much. Especially last year because I had new shoes. Golf honestly injures me more than when I was playing football in HS or even when I was doing University Track, lol.
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On March 15 2014 13:08 TheEmulator wrote:
I go enough that at some point my hands become immune. But the first few weeks of the year are terrible for blisters on my hands, and sometimes even my feet from walking too much. Especially last year because I had new shoes. Golf honestly injures me more than when I was playing football in HS or even when I was doing University Track, lol.
Track? You sure know what sports to pick! What events? I'm guessing sprints since I haven't seen you in the running thread ever.
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28104 Posts
On March 15 2014 13:33 L_Master wrote:Show nested quote +On March 15 2014 13:08 TheEmulator wrote:
I go enough that at some point my hands become immune. But the first few weeks of the year are terrible for blisters on my hands, and sometimes even my feet from walking too much. Especially last year because I had new shoes. Golf honestly injures me more than when I was playing football in HS or even when I was doing University Track, lol. Track? You sure know what sports to pick! What events? I'm guessing sprints since I haven't seen you in the running thread ever.
Well I did everything in High School (except distance), but I guess I excelled most in Javelin/Discus and a few sprints. In Uni I did the pentathlon and a bit of Pole Vault. I had to stop after 2 years because of injuries though
For those that might be curious, pentathlon is the same thing as the decathlon, just 5 events instead of 10. It's used for indoor seasons, while the decathlon is used during the outdoor season. But since Uni track in Canada doesn't have an outdoor season we're stuck with the pent. Although I train all year with a track club anyways (or used too), so I do both.
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Adam Scott playing some wicked golf these days. That long putter has definitely worked for him.
Also...bah! Of course right when spring break starts we get weather of 35 and 4 inches of snow. LAME!
Guess my first order of priority is to get my bad back in order. I currently lack a driver (head cracked), a 9 iron (shaft snapped), PW (pulled a dumbass and lost it), and 54 wedge (absolutely no grooves in the middle of the clubface). Having a gap from 100 yards to 185 yards is not so fun....
Probably going to cough up the money and reactivate my index as well. Will be interesting to see how much worse I am after 6 years of basically no golf.
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United States24813 Posts
I submitted an application to army navy country club (great deals for newly commissioned officers) which is required (non-binding) in order to go on a tour. It would be nice to belong to a nearby golf course, but I'm not sure what the culture is like in terms of being able to golf as a solo, whether you are pretty much expected to ride in a golf cart or not, etc. If the community is not inviting to singles then I might not take them up on their offer. I brought my clubs with me to DC but pretty much none of my other golf equipment (aside from the bag) so I guess I will need to go shopping soon. First I want to hit the range a few times after this week of work and warm up!
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I will say I've never heard of a course where you are expected to ride. That would annoy the heck out of me, as I hate riding.
Hopefully you'll lock down the sick deals!
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United States24813 Posts
There are definitely courses which expect you to ride. Fortunately... apparently, ANCC is not one of them! I went over there yesterday and got pretty much all of my questions answered... pretty sure I'm going to go ahead and join. Their re-done driving range should be opening ~15APR14 and has putting/chipping/bunker practice spots. Given my limited available time now I probably will get some lessons to make me course-ready sooner... I haven't hit a ball in over a year, short game or long game. I didn't bring my push-cart when I moved, so I'll have family bring it to me when they visit early June... in the meantime I'll stick to just practicing off course and maybe doing 9 holes carrying the bag backpack style in late May.
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I honestly don't know why you would be expected to ride anyway. I'm not convinced it makes pace of play any faster, in fact I know I play quicker if I am carrying.
I hear ya on the no practice thing. I'm thinking I'm going to cough up 400 and get an unlimited range plan at one of the local courses here in Colorado so I can get my game in some sort of shape over the summer.
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Holy mother of epic deals. Just scored two new Vokey spin milled 46/54 wedges for a total price of $120. That's less than I expected to pay for one.
Now just need a driver and maybe a 9 and the set is rebuilt
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On April 09 2014 03:20 L_Master wrote:
Holy mother of epic deals. Just scored two new Vokey spin milled 46/54 wedges for a total price of $120. That's less than I expected to pay for one.
Now just need a driver and maybe a 9 and the set is rebuilt
=(
even my dad won't give me them vokeys =(
I haven't tried any new drivers since it's been a while. Did other companies catch up to Taylormade yet?
(Then again, I really prefer R9 supertri over R11)
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EPT
