|
On August 04 2016 15:57 killerdog wrote:
Type advantage is nerved in go. Can't remember if it's 1.25 or 1.5 but it's not 2x
Also vaporean is still s tier
Yup, Vaporean definitely still S-Tier. Like I said, Bulky waters OP.
I re-did the numbers @ the 1.25x multiplier, the CP on Fire pokemon is 0.89 and the CP multiplier on Electric is 1.11.
So Flareon = 0.89 * 39 = 34.71
Jolteon = 31 * 1.11 = 34.42
I evolve wrong one, but atleast Jolteon is cool and no one else has one. lol. Yay for being hipster.
|
|
|
It's Nintendo, why would they ever think of releasing a Melee HD? They don't give a crap about the competitive smash fanbase They had two chances to release games in the spirit of Melee themselves and did not go in that direction at all. They took steps to kill P:M and probably stopped its development, and it was the closest thing we had to a Melee HD. Getting Melee HD out of them is a pipe dream, creating a fan-made Melee HD will result in cease-and-desist. Screw Nintendo.
...yeah, I am salty.
|
On August 05 2016 21:28 phyvo wrote:
It's Nintendo, why would they ever think of releasing a Melee HD? They don't give a crap about the competitive smash fanbase They had two chances to release games in the spirit of Melee themselves and did not go in that direction at all. They took steps to kill P:M and probably stopped its development, and it was the closest thing we had to a Melee HD. Getting Melee HD out of them is a pipe dream, creating a fan-made Melee HD will result in cease-and-desist. Screw Nintendo.
...yeah, I am salty.
Because Nintendo is remasters a ton of old games nowadays.
|
And melee would probably sell very well.
|
Doesn't matter how much it would sell, Nintendo doesn't give two craps about old versions of smash, even if they're melee. If you go by rumors they say that Nintendo is remastering Smash 4 for the NX. They are merely rumors, but they are in line with how they have treated the smash series with an utter disregard to the legacy of melee.
|
The legacy of Melee has sustained without Nintendo's support. It will continue to do so.
And, being honest, they haven't completely shafted players. There was a time before sm4sh when GC controllers were getting hard to find or relatively expensive to purchase. They created the Wii U adapter which made things a lot more convenient for Melee players in that regard.
|
Agreed, it never needed Nintendo support, I merely think Nintendo doesn't care about it.
I have to give you the point about the controllers though. That was very helpful.
|
See people are going to herald this as the return of great eSports or flock away from SC2 or whatever, but I actually like LotV quite a bit so I kinda don't want that to happen.
|
United States47024 Posts
"I don't want the developers for a game I like to make a better game."
|
On August 06 2016 00:14 TheYango wrote:
"I don't want the developers for a game I like to make a better game."
the improved spectator mode alone would make BW so much better.
I'm worried they'll change the pathing to account for a new engine though. which would completely change the game.
|
On August 06 2016 00:14 TheYango wrote:
"I don't want the developers for a game I like to make a better game."
I mean, I like BW. It's a fun game. But it's a very different game, and I enjoy watching SC2 quite a bit. I don't want it to suddenly disappear the way BW did, I think there's perfectly enough room for both to exist. That's all I'm saying.
|
I, for one, look forward to Dragoons roaming around in random directions.
And yeah, BW HD remake take my money Blizz.
|
I think you'd have a very hard time selling bw limitations to anyone who didn't play bw before.
Most of the stuff that makes broodwar good in the eyes of old school players are just bad design for a mainstream modern game. They'll have to make a very clear decision as to whether they make it 100 percent faithful for old schoolers and not expect much mass adoption, or revamp it for today's teenagers and accept the older will hate it, at least at first.
If they go half and half, I can only imagine a complete disaster :p
|
On August 06 2016 00:26 killerdog wrote:
I think you'd have a very hard time selling bw limitations to anyone who didn't play bw before.
Most of the stuff that makes broodwar good in the eyes of old school players are just bad design for a mainstream modern game. They'll have to make a very clear decision as to whether they make it 100 percent faithful for old schoolers and not expect much mass adoption, or revamp it for today's teenagers and accept the older will hate it, at least at first.
If they go half and half, I can only imagine a complete disaster :p
I think that's what we've discussed in the past, but my question is: what is the limit of changes that "hardcore BW fans" will accept? Is the moronic pathing important for the authentic feel? Will they freak out if you can select more than 12 dudes, or multiple buildings? Will rallying workers to minerals make it feel worse?
I'm not trying to be snide or anything, I'm honestly curious. Do people want just BW with a better skin or do they want actual updates to the game itself to play better?
|
I want BW with a better skin and the basic QoL changes. Unit selection improvements, rallying, and even automatic worker assignment at game start are fine in my book.
However, fixing pathing is a dealbreaker. You can't fix pathing without fundamentally changing how combat, positioning, and basic strategy worked in BW. It'll look like BW, but it won't be BW if they do that.
SEE: How the Homeworld HD remake screwed things up because fleet behavior/pathing/targeting didn't mimic the original, which completely changed balance and combat.
|
On August 06 2016 00:29 Requizen wrote:Show nested quote +On August 06 2016 00:26 killerdog wrote:
I think you'd have a very hard time selling bw limitations to anyone who didn't play bw before.
Most of the stuff that makes broodwar good in the eyes of old school players are just bad design for a mainstream modern game. They'll have to make a very clear decision as to whether they make it 100 percent faithful for old schoolers and not expect much mass adoption, or revamp it for today's teenagers and accept the older will hate it, at least at first.
If they go half and half, I can only imagine a complete disaster :p I think that's what we've discussed in the past, but my question is: what is the limit of changes that "hardcore BW fans" will accept? Is the moronic pathing important for the authentic feel? Will they freak out if you can select more than 12 dudes, or multiple buildings? Will rallying workers to minerals make it feel worse? I'm not trying to be snide or anything, I'm honestly curious. Do people want just BW with a better skin or do they want actual updates to the game itself to play better?
I mean, "play better" is very subjective :p
12 unit selection plus the pathing is what made army movement in broodwar not death ball like, which is one of the biggest problems sc2 has and what they've basically spent three games trying to fix with unit design. And any change to until movement could have absolutely massive impacts on game balance.
Stuff like mbs is more controversial, but there is the aspect of people liking the number of ways to differentiate skill.
Basically there are tint changes that fuck balance, like pathing and unit Ai and responsiveness, which would be game breaking to change without large balance patches. Then ease of use changes that reduce skill for and ceiling, which is where Internet fights get personal :p
Edit rip auto corect, I'm sure u guys can decode my phones ramblings
|
On August 06 2016 00:45 Seuss wrote:
I want BW with a better skin and the basic QoL changes. Unit selection improvements, rallying, and even automatic worker assignment at game start are fine in my book.
However, fixing pathing is a dealbreaker. You can't fix pathing without fundamentally changing how combat, positioning, and basic strategy worked in BW. It'll look like BW, but it won't be BW if they do that.
SEE: How the Homeworld HD remake screwed things up because fleet behavior/pathing/targeting didn't mimic the original, which completely changed balance and combat.
Honestly I don't think it would even look like broodwar without my dragoons/goliaths wandering randomly alongside cliff faces and constantly bumping into each other.
|
On August 06 2016 00:45 Seuss wrote:
I want BW with a better skin and the basic QoL changes. Unit selection improvements, rallying, and even automatic worker assignment at game start are fine in my book.
However, fixing pathing is a dealbreaker. You can't fix pathing without fundamentally changing how combat, positioning, and basic strategy worked in BW. It'll look like BW, but it won't be BW if they do that.
SEE: How the Homeworld HD remake screwed things up because fleet behavior/pathing/targeting didn't mimic the original, which completely changed balance and combat.
It's weird how RTS devs seem to miss how important pathing is. I'd imagine the errors of SC2 would be known by now in this regard so people would be more cautious but I guess people always try to ignore what their peers do when making stuff.
The "slowness" of BW is one of the aspects that helps drive everything else.
edit: I don't think unit selection was really that important a factor in driving the way SC2 played. The pathing along with how efficiently things kill each other felt like a bigger factor. DPS in the game is just too high along with defenders advantage being practically non-existence meant the cost of making your divisions smaller was just too high.
|
Czech Republic11293 Posts
Even these "basic QoL changes" would change how the game plays a lot I imagine. The way in which your ability to move things is limited by your own ability to pay attention and move your hands shapes how the game works. The fact that playing more can improve your playing speed doesn't change that. QoL changes are to BW what powered exoskeletons are to a decathlon.
I agree pathing is easily one of the most important things in an RTS, but I think it's really difficult to handle. Smooth, tight pathing like SC2 has can lead to deathball preference especially for longer range units, but other things can compensate for that (buildings dying faster, for example), on the other hand "shitty" pathing like BW has can lead to a more interesting experience but can be pretty fucking frustrating at times.
|
|
|
|
|
|
EPT
