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On December 20 2014 03:42 Numy wrote:
We have enough food for people. It's just that people without money aren't actually people so there is no problem. It's sad but that's pretty much how the world works and until something major happens it's going to work like that for the foreseeable future.
Sort of. The issue currently rests on issues of global inequity, and on improving distribution channels and infrastructure. Eg, getting food from the American Midwest to Central Africa. (Also the issue why developed countries like the US and France are major net exporters of food as opposed to importers, but subsidies, despite the effects it has on subsistence level farmers in developing nations).
There's a whole range of development issues here and it gets complicated fast, but long story short, we do produce enough food to feed everyone in the world, and will continue to do so. The issue is actually doing so and getting the food where it needs to go.
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On December 20 2014 03:43 Alzadar wrote:Show nested quote +On December 20 2014 03:37 Lord Tolkien wrote:On December 20 2014 02:25 Alzadar wrote:
On the topic of Malthusian theory, can we talk about eugenics?
I find it interesting how it became popular in the 30s and 40s, but then everyone was like "oh shit the Nazis liked this" and popularity fell, but then with the rise of women's rights (particularly reproductive rights), eugenics has in some ways become a fait accompli, without anyone saying a word: 92% of Down's syndrome fetuses in Europe are terminated. 20s-40s, actually. But yes, Buck v. Bell and others are testament to the scope of the eugenics movement in the US (and the rest of the Anglosphere) until after WWII. As for the rest of your example, well, that depends on how you classify fetuses among other issues which I don't care to touch. How do you figure that? Whether you consider fetuses to be fully-fledged human beings or mere genetic seedlings, selective abortion based on prenatal screening is eugenics.
There is quite a world of difference between abortion and forced, involuntary sterilization.
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On December 20 2014 03:44 Mensol wrote:New CLG looks mediocre  Doublelift-sama can't carry the entire team
CLG only plays tomorrow...
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On December 20 2014 03:45 Lord Tolkien wrote:Show nested quote +On December 20 2014 03:43 Alzadar wrote:On December 20 2014 03:37 Lord Tolkien wrote:On December 20 2014 02:25 Alzadar wrote:
On the topic of Malthusian theory, can we talk about eugenics?
I find it interesting how it became popular in the 30s and 40s, but then everyone was like "oh shit the Nazis liked this" and popularity fell, but then with the rise of women's rights (particularly reproductive rights), eugenics has in some ways become a fait accompli, without anyone saying a word: 92% of Down's syndrome fetuses in Europe are terminated. 20s-40s, actually. But yes, Buck v. Bell and others are testament to the scope of the eugenics movement in the US (and the rest of the Anglosphere) until after WWII. As for the rest of your example, well, that depends on how you classify fetuses among other issues which I don't care to touch. How do you figure that? Whether you consider fetuses to be fully-fledged human beings or mere genetic seedlings, selective abortion based on prenatal screening is eugenics. There is quite a world of difference between abortion and forced, involuntary sterilization.
Ok... That doesn't really relate to what I said..?
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On December 20 2014 03:51 Alzadar wrote:Show nested quote +On December 20 2014 03:45 Lord Tolkien wrote:On December 20 2014 03:43 Alzadar wrote:On December 20 2014 03:37 Lord Tolkien wrote:On December 20 2014 02:25 Alzadar wrote:
On the topic of Malthusian theory, can we talk about eugenics?
I find it interesting how it became popular in the 30s and 40s, but then everyone was like "oh shit the Nazis liked this" and popularity fell, but then with the rise of women's rights (particularly reproductive rights), eugenics has in some ways become a fait accompli, without anyone saying a word: 92% of Down's syndrome fetuses in Europe are terminated. 20s-40s, actually. But yes, Buck v. Bell and others are testament to the scope of the eugenics movement in the US (and the rest of the Anglosphere) until after WWII. As for the rest of your example, well, that depends on how you classify fetuses among other issues which I don't care to touch. How do you figure that? Whether you consider fetuses to be fully-fledged human beings or mere genetic seedlings, selective abortion based on prenatal screening is eugenics. There is quite a world of difference between abortion and forced, involuntary sterilization. Ok... That doesn't really relate to what I said..?
Doesn't "eugenics" suggest that it would be, as swaglord said, "forced, involuntary sterilization"? I could be mistaken though
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i don't think anything defines it that way
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On December 20 2014 03:50 Numy wrote:Show nested quote +On December 20 2014 03:44 Mensol wrote:New CLG looks mediocre Doublelift-sama can't carry the entire team CLG only plays tomorrow...
ive watched their latest games. im not talking about IEM Cologne...
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On December 20 2014 03:53 jcarlsoniv wrote:Show nested quote +On December 20 2014 03:51 Alzadar wrote:On December 20 2014 03:45 Lord Tolkien wrote:On December 20 2014 03:43 Alzadar wrote:On December 20 2014 03:37 Lord Tolkien wrote:On December 20 2014 02:25 Alzadar wrote:
On the topic of Malthusian theory, can we talk about eugenics?
I find it interesting how it became popular in the 30s and 40s, but then everyone was like "oh shit the Nazis liked this" and popularity fell, but then with the rise of women's rights (particularly reproductive rights), eugenics has in some ways become a fait accompli, without anyone saying a word: 92% of Down's syndrome fetuses in Europe are terminated. 20s-40s, actually. But yes, Buck v. Bell and others are testament to the scope of the eugenics movement in the US (and the rest of the Anglosphere) until after WWII. As for the rest of your example, well, that depends on how you classify fetuses among other issues which I don't care to touch. How do you figure that? Whether you consider fetuses to be fully-fledged human beings or mere genetic seedlings, selective abortion based on prenatal screening is eugenics. There is quite a world of difference between abortion and forced, involuntary sterilization. Ok... That doesn't really relate to what I said..? Doesn't "eugenics" suggest that it would be, as swaglord said, "forced, involuntary sterilization"? I could be mistaken though
Eugenics is just "the belief and practice of improving the genetic 'quality' of the human population." Forced, involuntary sterilization of 'low-quality' people is one kind of eugenics, but so is encouraging very smart people to have more children, or abortion of fetuses based on pre-natal screening.
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On December 20 2014 03:35 ComaDose wrote:Show nested quote +On December 20 2014 03:28 Uldridge wrote:On December 20 2014 02:18 ComaDose wrote:
true. and never heard of anyone having a bad trip. its pretty much happy pills. I hope you're not being sarcastic, because it is true  Also, I'm not drunk. Just really happy and energized for some reason. Why can't you let me be happyyyyyyyyyyyyyyy nope not sarcastic. only tried it a few times but always had a blast. maybe thats why you are so energized and happyyyyy
Nope, not on anything right now, just very very energized.
In response to Tolkien. Ok, my points my have been a bit harsh but that was probably my aversion to people in general talking. And I do agree on most points you've made, so let's talk some more.
Production is indeed too high. I've worked in a supermarket (fruit and vegetables section, never again) and they threw away kilo's of food every day. Expired stuff gets thrown away aswell. It's such a fucking waste. But this is a side effect of our economic structure.
They are ABLE to throw away the food because the profits are still maximalized. Instead of working to a break even policy, everyone is always talking about growth and why not? The population seems to be still going up..
I do understand the greying of Europe and the huge ass strain this generation of young adults is going to have on the overwhelming amounts of elderly we'll have to "take care of" and this is an issue which I cannot predict which way is going to go (hoping for the next revolution)
Supercrops should be a way to decrease production and increase preservation of the food and growing them in hostile conditions.
I also thought not only China had this discrepancy but India suffered from the same problem aswell? Where in certain regions even a 2/1 ratio of sexes was reported if I recall correctly. (could be China, so please do correct me)
Don't really have anything more to add here than, let's hope technology and new economic ways / change of morals and ethics drags us through this century or we're fucked imo.
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On December 20 2014 03:18 Alzadar wrote:Show nested quote +On December 20 2014 03:16 Dandel Ion wrote:
that statistic feels wrong btw
are you sure it's 92% of total fetuses?
it should be 92% of tested-for-downs fetuses Right, they have to be diagnosed in order to be terminated due to diagnosis. Seems like it's about 65-80% in the U.S.
but they dont have to be diagnosed to NOT be aborted, which is why it is wrong to say that 92% of fetuses with downs are being aborted.
tl;dr you can write for a SJW magizine with those stats but I'm not interested
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On December 20 2014 03:55 Mensol wrote:Show nested quote +On December 20 2014 03:50 Numy wrote:On December 20 2014 03:44 Mensol wrote:New CLG looks mediocre Doublelift-sama can't carry the entire team CLG only plays tomorrow... ive watched their latest games. im not talking about IEM Cologne...
Latest games as in the ones with their previous roster? This current roster hasn't played any games to my knowledge.
On December 20 2014 03:53 jcarlsoniv wrote:Show nested quote +On December 20 2014 03:51 Alzadar wrote:On December 20 2014 03:45 Lord Tolkien wrote:On December 20 2014 03:43 Alzadar wrote:On December 20 2014 03:37 Lord Tolkien wrote:On December 20 2014 02:25 Alzadar wrote:
On the topic of Malthusian theory, can we talk about eugenics?
I find it interesting how it became popular in the 30s and 40s, but then everyone was like "oh shit the Nazis liked this" and popularity fell, but then with the rise of women's rights (particularly reproductive rights), eugenics has in some ways become a fait accompli, without anyone saying a word: 92% of Down's syndrome fetuses in Europe are terminated. 20s-40s, actually. But yes, Buck v. Bell and others are testament to the scope of the eugenics movement in the US (and the rest of the Anglosphere) until after WWII. As for the rest of your example, well, that depends on how you classify fetuses among other issues which I don't care to touch. How do you figure that? Whether you consider fetuses to be fully-fledged human beings or mere genetic seedlings, selective abortion based on prenatal screening is eugenics. There is quite a world of difference between abortion and forced, involuntary sterilization. Ok... That doesn't really relate to what I said..? Doesn't "eugenics" suggest that it would be, as swaglord said, "forced, involuntary sterilization"? I could be mistaken though
Eugenics is just genetic manipulation of the human population. It doesn't have to be forced but it's often thought of as forced.
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You guys were sure Philosophical this morning.
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On December 20 2014 03:58 Dandel Ion wrote:Show nested quote +On December 20 2014 03:18 Alzadar wrote:On December 20 2014 03:16 Dandel Ion wrote:
that statistic feels wrong btw
are you sure it's 92% of total fetuses?
it should be 92% of tested-for-downs fetuses Right, they have to be diagnosed in order to be terminated due to diagnosis. Seems like it's about 65-80% in the U.S. but they dont have to be diagnosed to NOT be aborted, which is why it is wrong to say that 92% of fetuses with downs are being aborted. tl;dr you can write for a SJW magizine with those stats but I'm not interested
Not sure what you're getting at... it isn't essential to the discussion I brought up that it be 92% of total as opposed to 70% of total or whatever.
http://www.downsyndromeprenataltesting.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/06/Boyd-Down-syndrome-incidence-in-Europe.jpg
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On December 20 2014 03:58 Numy wrote:Show nested quote +On December 20 2014 03:55 Mensol wrote:On December 20 2014 03:50 Numy wrote:On December 20 2014 03:44 Mensol wrote:New CLG looks mediocre Doublelift-sama can't carry the entire team CLG only plays tomorrow... ive watched their latest games. im not talking about IEM Cologne... Latest games as in the ones with their previous roster? This current roster hasn't played any games to my knowledge. Show nested quote +On December 20 2014 03:53 jcarlsoniv wrote:On December 20 2014 03:51 Alzadar wrote:On December 20 2014 03:45 Lord Tolkien wrote:On December 20 2014 03:43 Alzadar wrote:On December 20 2014 03:37 Lord Tolkien wrote:On December 20 2014 02:25 Alzadar wrote:
On the topic of Malthusian theory, can we talk about eugenics?
I find it interesting how it became popular in the 30s and 40s, but then everyone was like "oh shit the Nazis liked this" and popularity fell, but then with the rise of women's rights (particularly reproductive rights), eugenics has in some ways become a fait accompli, without anyone saying a word: 92% of Down's syndrome fetuses in Europe are terminated. 20s-40s, actually. But yes, Buck v. Bell and others are testament to the scope of the eugenics movement in the US (and the rest of the Anglosphere) until after WWII. As for the rest of your example, well, that depends on how you classify fetuses among other issues which I don't care to touch. How do you figure that? Whether you consider fetuses to be fully-fledged human beings or mere genetic seedlings, selective abortion based on prenatal screening is eugenics. There is quite a world of difference between abortion and forced, involuntary sterilization. Ok... That doesn't really relate to what I said..? Doesn't "eugenics" suggest that it would be, as swaglord said, "forced, involuntary sterilization"? I could be mistaken though Eugenics is just genetic manipulation of the human population. It doesn't have to be forced but it's often thought of as forced.
Hmm i guess so. They had Seraph but seems like he left from CLG.
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On December 20 2014 03:57 Uldridge wrote:Show nested quote +On December 20 2014 03:35 ComaDose wrote:On December 20 2014 03:28 Uldridge wrote:On December 20 2014 02:18 ComaDose wrote:
true. and never heard of anyone having a bad trip. its pretty much happy pills. I hope you're not being sarcastic, because it is true Also, I'm not drunk. Just really happy and energized for some reason. Why can't you let me be happyyyyyyyyyyyyyyy nope not sarcastic. only tried it a few times but always had a blast. maybe thats why you are so energized and happyyyyy Nope, not on anything right now, just very very energized. In response to Tolkien. Ok, my points my have been a bit harsh but that was probably my aversion to people in general talking. And I do agree on most points you've made, so let's talk some more. Production is indeed too high. I've worked in a supermarket (fruit and vegetables section, never again) and they threw away kilo's of food every day. Expired stuff gets thrown away aswell. It's such a fucking waste. But this is a side effect of our economic structure.
Food subsidies, heyyyyy. The whole reason the Doha rounds collapsed.
They are ABLE to throw away the food because the profits are still maximalized. Instead of working to a break even policy, everyone is always talking about growth and why not? The population seems to be still going up..
Europe's population growth. ![[image loading]](http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/a/af/Demographics_of_europe.PNG)
All in all, very concerning.
I do understand the greying of Europe and the huge ass strain this generation of young adults is going to have on the overwhelming amounts of elderly we'll have to "take care of" and this is an issue which I cannot predict which way is going to go (hoping for the next revolution)
The easiest thing would simply be to ease continent-wide immigration restrictions (which have been tightening since Schengen), but Fortress Europe is alive and well. Understandable: opening up transnational borders within Europe ultimately requires the closure of non-European borders, but ehhhh.
Supercrops should be a way to decrease production and increase preservation of the food and growing them in hostile conditions.
I have no qualms about GMOs, nonetheless, there's no reason they're necessary as of yet..
I also thought not only China had this discrepancy but India suffered from the same problem aswell? Where in certain regions even a 2/1 ratio of sexes was reported if I recall correctly. (could be China, so please do correct me)
Yes, India also has this issue. China is simply the example I'm, self-evidently, most familiar with.
Don't really have anything more to add here than, let's hope technology and new economic ways / change of morals and ethics drags us through this century or we're fucked imo.
such pessimism much wow
On December 20 2014 03:51 Alzadar wrote:Show nested quote +On December 20 2014 03:45 Lord Tolkien wrote:On December 20 2014 03:43 Alzadar wrote:On December 20 2014 03:37 Lord Tolkien wrote:On December 20 2014 02:25 Alzadar wrote:
On the topic of Malthusian theory, can we talk about eugenics?
I find it interesting how it became popular in the 30s and 40s, but then everyone was like "oh shit the Nazis liked this" and popularity fell, but then with the rise of women's rights (particularly reproductive rights), eugenics has in some ways become a fait accompli, without anyone saying a word: 92% of Down's syndrome fetuses in Europe are terminated. 20s-40s, actually. But yes, Buck v. Bell and others are testament to the scope of the eugenics movement in the US (and the rest of the Anglosphere) until after WWII. As for the rest of your example, well, that depends on how you classify fetuses among other issues which I don't care to touch. How do you figure that? Whether you consider fetuses to be fully-fledged human beings or mere genetic seedlings, selective abortion based on prenatal screening is eugenics. There is quite a world of difference between abortion and forced, involuntary sterilization. Ok... That doesn't really relate to what I said..?
There is quite a big ethical leap if you're trying to correlate abortion done with the informed consent of the parents with forced abortion and sterilization, either by the doctor or by state apparatuses.
They're both technically versions of eugenics, but again, there's a gigantic leap here between the practices of the 1940s and of today (Gattaca is a great movie if you're concerned about this issue, but I'm far more optimistic here). Down syndrome has a major effect on the fetus' future quality of life, among other things.
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Down syndrome has a major effect on the parents lives too. I don't think anyone can really judge a parent for trying to prevent that before it happens. At least until the day comes where we can treat it effectively and cheaply.
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On December 20 2014 04:24 Numy wrote:
Down syndrome has a major effect on the parents lives too. I don't think anyone can really judge a parent for trying to prevent that before it happens. At least until the day comes where we can treat it effectively and cheaply.
Well that was what I was getting at when I said "among other things".
Controlling for Tay-Sachs syndrome, for instance, pre-birth is something entirely different from the eugenics practices of the 20s, 30s, and 40s.
For one, informed consent.
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Please note that people with down syndrome rarely have children regardless. I don't think such abortions are the same as eugenics.
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On December 20 2014 04:34 Sufficiency wrote:
Please note that people with down syndrome rarely have children regardless. I don't think such abortions are the same as eugenics.
Obviously it's not "the same" as other eugenics practices, it's a pretty broad category, but selective abortion definitely falls within it.
I think I'm being misinterpreted. Basically I'm just remarking how people have this knee-jerk reaction to the word "eugenics", which is funny because of how prevalent certain eugenic practices are. Some of you think I'm condemning selective abortion by labeling it eugenics, but I'm not passing a judgement at all - but the fact that you think I am reinforces what I'm saying.
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Playing a mafia game on another forum. I am scum.
This is an open "pick a role setup". All possible roles are listed in the OP.
Under pressure, scum buddy claims a role not in the OP.
:psyduck:
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EPT
