EPTOff-Topic General Discussion - Page 3703
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Gahlo
United States35174 Posts
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PrinceXizor
United States17713 Posts
On December 14 2014 10:14 Gahlo wrote: People complaining about RNG in a CCG boggles my mind. Every turn starts with RNG in HS. i mean in theory a CCG isn't really RNG. the order in which your deck is arranged is preset as soon as the game begins, though some effects shuffle, they are extremely uncommon in hearthstone in particular. in theory there is an ideal way in which to play out the game because of this, its impossible to know for sure, but you can make pretty decent guesses at what cards you are going to be getting soon. the whole concept of skill draws is why i love SWCCG. the deck is both the currency to play cards, your life total, and cards to draw. as such it cycles, so you can track cards all the way through and know when they are going to come up if you saw it at one point. | ||
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Scip
Czech Republic11293 Posts
On December 14 2014 10:29 PrinceXizor wrote: i mean in theory a CCG isn't really RNG. the order in which your deck is arranged is preset as soon as the game begins, though some effects shuffle, they are extremely uncommon in hearthstone in particular. in theory there is an ideal way in which to play out the game because of this. so what, the order in which your deck is arranged is still random | ||
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Dark_Chill
Canada3353 Posts
So you already have some randomness, but you can play around it, and if the opponent knows what to expect, so can he. Unstable Portal can't be cancelled, and can just bring something out that's completely above what the other player can deal with, or is at the very least a free monster. There's no real way to play around it, except to make sure you have some kind of execute for whatever the other dude gets. | ||
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Alaric
France45622 Posts
On December 14 2014 10:11 Lord Tolkien wrote: who are you and what have you done with shelkelp He's dead. Another murder victim, quick, put Detective John Bright on the case! | ||
TheYango
United States47024 Posts
On December 14 2014 10:14 Gahlo wrote: People complaining about RNG in a CCG boggles my mind. Every turn starts with RNG in HS. It's not so much the RNG, as how "bad" the RNG feels. Of course in actuality the RNG drives everything about the game, but in general the randomness being distributed over a lot of small, low-impact selections tends to make the game more enjoyable to play. Players are less likely to feel screwed over if they get the short end of small-impact RNG even if the variance is pretty high, and conversely you have to make sure that high-impact RNG has relatively low variance because those are the things that stick in peoples' minds. Someone who follows MtG R&D articles more closely should have the link to the WotC explanation of this (which got linked a lot when the Tinkmaster/Pagle discussion came up the first time). It's not really about "skill" or "balance", but much more basic in terms of making the game enjoyable to play on a superficial level, not unlike Riot's design choices concerning the concept of "anti-fun". | ||
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Gahlo
United States35174 Posts
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wei2coolman
United States60033 Posts
On December 14 2014 09:50 red_ wrote: Everyone getting a coin to flip doesn't mean it isn't a coinflip. I don't know shit about the HS specifics here, but that much is easy to logic through. It isn't if it's normalized through large #'s of coinflip. The result of a single coinflip is massively different than the result of a million coinflips. On December 14 2014 11:01 Gahlo wrote: Finger braces suck ass. Especially when it's on the pointer of your primary hand. how'd you fuck up your finger? tried to finger a vice grip or something? | ||
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red_
United States8474 Posts
On December 14 2014 12:06 wei2coolman wrote: It isn't if it's normalized through large #'s of coinflip. The result of a single coinflip is massively different than the result of a million coinflips. Well yes obviously that's how statistics work, but within those million coinflips will be massive streaks and variation, and those are your individual plays and games and matches of Hearthstone. It's like raid drops in WoW(well, older WoW). If you looked at the drop tables on wowhead you see good distribution, but that didn't help the individuals who were frustrated at never having seen the item they wanted. Just because the RNG is normalized over the entirety of the game doesn't reduce how infuriating it can to be a part of each individual instance being, a coinflip. | ||
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Gahlo
United States35174 Posts
On December 14 2014 12:06 wei2coolman wrote: It isn't if it's normalized through large #'s of coinflip. The result of a single coinflip is massively different than the result of a million coinflips. how'd you fuck up your finger? tried to finger a vice grip or something? I put my hand through a glass door that didn't want to open. On December 14 2014 12:32 red_ wrote: Well yes obviously that's how statistics work, but within those million coinflips will be massive streaks and variation, and those are your individual plays and games and matches of Hearthstone. It's like raid drops in WoW(well, older WoW). If you looked at the drop tables on wowhead you see good distribution, but that didn't help the individuals who were frustrated at never having seen the item they wanted. Just because the RNG is normalized over the entirety of the game doesn't reduce how infuriating it can to be a part of each individual instance being, a coinflip. Worst case of gear blueballs I've ever gotten was when I was raiding in an irl guild where we had 3 hunters and an enhancement shaman. I never got shit because if I ever outrolled the other hunters the Shaman outrolled me. | ||
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Rockafellalp
Canada356 Posts
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Capped
United Kingdom7236 Posts
As for the coin flip conversation, its more prominent the bigger the effect a single "coin flip" has. A coin flip in this sense can hold different value, it could mean gaining a slight advantage or outright winning the game, blizzard seems to have implemented the latter, at which point "a million coinflips" becomes a million games you won or lost from coinflipping, each game comes down to a single event. As an example of both, A mad bomber being played could work miracles or screw you over but it would rarely decide the outcome of a game, its more likely to give you the advantage (by taking out a minion, doing a couple damage, giving you tempo etc.) A portal giving you some top-decking minion (of which there are many for each situation, giving you a good chance of it.) has a much larger chance of just snowballing a victory straight up. (Obviously it isnt COMPLETELY like this, im just being basic for the sake of explanation) If this post is as incoherent as it looks, Fuck you its 4:15am. Sincerely, Capped. | ||
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Gahlo
United States35174 Posts
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BlackPaladin
United States9316 Posts
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GhandiEAGLE
United States20754 Posts
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Cixah
United States11285 Posts
Shelke14 was just banned by Plexa. That account was created on 2010-04-06 10:10:58 and had 3945 posts. Reason: By request. Why. | ||
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teemo_girl
United States6 Posts
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Gahlo
United States35174 Posts
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Cixah
United States11285 Posts
On December 14 2014 18:25 Gahlo wrote: So, I'm in the HotS alpha and don't give a shit. First person to send me a PM telling me how to give away my code that doesn't already have one gets it. Can I have it for my roommate? Edit: Nevermind, it's locked by account usually for this beta. The key itself auto uses to prevent you from doing just this. Your Bnet has it, so play it. | ||
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Capped
United Kingdom7236 Posts
On December 14 2014 18:57 Cixah wrote: Can I have it for my roommate? Edit: Nevermind, it's locked by account usually for this beta. The key itself auto uses to prevent you from doing just this. Your Bnet has it, so play it. That is pants on head retarded. Its not like they handpick you to test it, why do they care if the code is passed on to somebody who would put it to better use? Isnt that actually beneficial for them? I guess to stop people hoarding keys and selling them off with alt. accounts or some shit but thats easily stopped by putting an account age limit on who gets passes. :| | ||
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