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On December 05 2014 06:46 Alzadar wrote:
Ehhh... Tree of Life isn't really going to save you a lot of the time, it just delays a turn. If they had a board when you played then you're going to go right back down to 10-20 health (and he can develop further), and you're no better off.
Ramp Druid simply needs to survive until late after aggro decks run out of steam, when you start throwing down shit like 5/10s and Kel'thuzad and a menagerie of taunts.
Tree of Life not only nullifies all the damage a deck like Aggro Hunter or Zoolock has done (they have no way to kill you from full if you've exhausted their decks to this point), but also straight up counters Freeze mage, minus the silly Ancient Mage variant.
Let me be clear, this is insane against Aggro if you can survive and contest board control until 9 mana (which also comes much earlier with Wild Growth and Grove Tenders and Innervates and maybe even a Nourish if you're feeling supergreedy), you win.
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On December 05 2014 06:46 Alzadar wrote:
Ehhh... Tree of Life isn't really going to save you a lot of the time, it just delays a turn. If they had a board when you played then you're going to go right back down to 10-20 health (and he can develop further), and you're no better off.
How little you believe in the power of that card.
I foresee much asspain when it comes to this card.
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On December 05 2014 06:50 Cixah wrote:Show nested quote +On December 05 2014 06:46 Alzadar wrote:
Ehhh... Tree of Life isn't really going to save you a lot of the time, it just delays a turn. If they had a board when you played then you're going to go right back down to 10-20 health (and he can develop further), and you're no better off. How little you believe in the power of that card. I foresee much asspain when it comes to this card.
It's literally: "get to 9 mana, autowin against aggro", it's insane.
It also has alot of use in control matchups. Warrior can't do much against Ramp if they run out of damage, and it also straight up changes the Freeze Mage matchup (you'll see that much more often with the flare nerfs).
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It's not an unreasonable board state for the aggro to bring you down into lethal range by ignoring some of your board too. If you can clear a thing or two and go to 30 that's pretty much gg.
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On December 05 2014 06:50 Cixah wrote:Show nested quote +On December 05 2014 06:46 Alzadar wrote:
Ehhh... Tree of Life isn't really going to save you a lot of the time, it just delays a turn. If they had a board when you played then you're going to go right back down to 10-20 health (and he can develop further), and you're no better off. How little you believe in the power of that card. I foresee much asspain when it comes to this card.
I agree with Alz though. 9 mana means it's the only thing you throw out, so it's just delay until you get the right cards out. It's a different story if you have board control but low health, but that's not a normal situation, no?
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I've played boatloads of Ramp Druid, btw. The vs aggro match-ups are won when you have a 6+ drop that survives a turn. If on turn 9 you already have a minion alive, then Healing Touch would be a sufficient health buffer and lets you play something else. If you don't have a minion on the board, then healing to full isn't going to help you much.
I think it's a terrible card vs aggro, but helps in other control match-ups, particularly Warrior.
Ok on second thought it would be plenty good against Hunter. But still awful vs Zoo afaic.
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I mean what have you been doing the previous 6-7 turns? (assuming some ramp here) It's not like you win every time lol card but it's certainly not bad
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On December 05 2014 06:53 Requizen wrote:Show nested quote +On December 05 2014 06:50 Cixah wrote:On December 05 2014 06:46 Alzadar wrote:
Ehhh... Tree of Life isn't really going to save you a lot of the time, it just delays a turn. If they had a board when you played then you're going to go right back down to 10-20 health (and he can develop further), and you're no better off. How little you believe in the power of that card. I foresee much asspain when it comes to this card. I agree with Alz though. 9 mana means it's the only thing you throw out, so it's just delay until you get the right cards out. It's a different story if you have board control but low health, but that's not a normal situation, no?
1) It is against aggro or burn. 9 mana is easy to reach for Druid, with Innervates, Grove Tender (again, basically 2/4 for 2, since you get a full mana crystal refund), and Wild Growths. All of which will be played in Ramp, and Aggro does not have the damage to take you down from 30 hp again if you've done anywhere near as much board contesting you should've done (dropped Keepers on 3/2s etc).
Like, modern Ramp incarnations shittons of taunt minions. Senjins, Belchers, Sunwalkers, Wars, etc.
2) Control Warrior/Freeze Mage/Miracle Rogue (the last has been nerfed, but they still have limited damage to finish you off).
3) It can even be useful in fatigue wars because you now have Malone. If Malone isn't silenced before a removal (very easy to exhaust silences with Ramp because you have so many good silenceable minions like Kel/Wars/Sylvanas/Belchers as a minimum), you will never fatigue and continuously play a 9/7. It becomes GG.
EDIT:
Zoo is abit different from regular aggro/burn.
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Oh umm, Good old games is having it's winter sale. Also for the broke or poor or curious they are giving away the Classic Age of Wonders today on the site so.. go check them out. Age of Wonders is pretty good game maybe you should plays it.
+ Show Spoiler +I realize how often I end up saying "hey look what GoG is doing" but they keep doing cool things
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United States47024 Posts
To be fair, a lot of the large burst value cards that you want the large HP buffer against are things that Blizzard nerfs every patch, so at the rate we're going, most of the stuff it's good to have Tree of Life against will be unplayable anyway. 
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On December 05 2014 06:55 mordek wrote:
I mean what have you been doing the previous 6-7 turns? (assuming some ramp here) It's not like you win every time lol card but it's certainly not bad
Ramping to it silly, but druid already does that on the early turns.
How does aggro deal with a turn 5 or 6 ancient of war? They either have the Black Knight or they have to trade heavily for it. Then 2 turns later after it's been dealt with I heal for 15-20?
Zoo decks would be completely out of the game by that point. They would have almost nothing to contest me any more.
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I was really hoping for Hearthstone on iPhone coinciding with GvG
I'm not sure why you quoted me 6er.
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United States47024 Posts
On December 05 2014 07:00 Cixah wrote:Show nested quote +On December 05 2014 06:55 mordek wrote:
I mean what have you been doing the previous 6-7 turns? (assuming some ramp here) It's not like you win every time lol card but it's certainly not bad Ramping to it silly, but druid already does that on the early turns. How does aggro deal with a turn 5 or 6 ancient of war? They either have the Black Knight or they have to trade heavily for it. Then 2 turns later after it's been dealt with I heal for 15-20? Zoo decks would be completely out of the game by that point. They would have almost nothing to contest me any more.
Alzadar's argument is that you don't need to heal for 15-20 when healing for 8 already pushes you out of any risk of being killed. Which isn't true now, but given how Blizzard repeatedly and consistently hates out all the cards that give aggro decks that kind of reach (Leeroy nerf, Soulfire nerf, etc.), it might be true in a few months.
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Wow SC2's community is a fucking cesspool. How do they have the audacity to look down upon others? Doesnt matter what i do, 1v1, team-games, custom games, ranked, unranked, arcade maps, everyones just fucking abusive no matter what!
Whalecum to the internatz
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Ideal opening for Ramp Druid now: turn 2 Wild Growth into turn 3 Grove-Tender Wild Growth, turn 4 Ancient of War, Turn 5 Kelthuzad.
On December 05 2014 07:02 TheYango wrote:Show nested quote +On December 05 2014 07:00 Cixah wrote:On December 05 2014 06:55 mordek wrote:
I mean what have you been doing the previous 6-7 turns? (assuming some ramp here) It's not like you win every time lol card but it's certainly not bad Ramping to it silly, but druid already does that on the early turns. How does aggro deal with a turn 5 or 6 ancient of war? They either have the Black Knight or they have to trade heavily for it. Then 2 turns later after it's been dealt with I heal for 15-20? Zoo decks would be completely out of the game by that point. They would have almost nothing to contest me any more. Alzadar's argument is that you don't need to heal for 15-20 when healing for 8 already pushes you out of any risk of being killed. Which isn't true now, but given how Blizzard repeatedly and consistently hates out all the cards that give aggro decks that kind of reach (Leeroy nerf, Soulfire nerf, etc.), it might not be true in a few months.
I can't tell you how many times I've used Ancient of Lore to heal myself in conjunction with Healing Touch and still lost to Token Druid and Hunters.
Tree of Life is just indisputably ridiculous for Ramp.
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United States47024 Posts
I agree, but again, Blizzard has shown their consistent dislike for the kinds of cards that enable an aggro deck to have reach like that.
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On December 05 2014 07:07 Lord Tolkien wrote:
Tree of Life is just indisputably ridiculous for Ramp.
But... I'm disputing it.
I think it isn't terrible and will probably see some play as a tech card. But it's not the next Ancient of Lore.
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EPT
