EPT
Especially when you beat Reynor, Dark and Serral in a row xD BUT MAH CLEMQ!!@#!#!King of Battles 2 Groups & Main Event - Page 17
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deacon.frost
Czech Republic12129 Posts
Especially when you beat Reynor, Dark and Serral in a row xD BUT MAH CLEMQ!!@#!#! | ||
Poopi
France12904 Posts
However, there are other top zergs (namely Dark and Rogue or even DRG in ZvT), and he sure looked as mortal as Maru in cross server TvZ (check WTL). Plus now that Clem starts to struggle a bit more even against Serral and Reynor, while Maru dismantled them with unfavorable (vs Reynor with ping but decent hour) to very unfavorable (vs Serral with both ping and horrible hour, after a hard match vs Dark) conditions. Not only that but he also beat Serral 3-0 not that long ago as well as Rogue, and beat Rogue again recently ; albeit losing in group stages 1-2 to Serral (with less stakes but a loss is a loss). So yeah, comes Katowice maybe he wouldn’t have the undisputed TvZ, but at the moment there is absolutely no doubt. 2nd best TvZ wouldn’t be enough to beat Serral cross server at 6am. | ||
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Harris1st
Germany6989 Posts
On November 23 2021 01:56 Vindicare605 wrote: I can't help but notice a distinct lack of drama in this thread following this result. I can't say why that is, but it seems like with most end of tournament results there's a bunch of balance whining or argument about players status, but this one is one of those rare ones where just everyone is in agreement. No conclusions, just an observation. The thread went downhill from there pretty fast EDIT: Was hoping for a repeat in NEXT, then realized Maru lost to Solar, Rogue and Dark in the qualifiers. Oh the irony We have to wait till TSL 8 then  | ||
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Vindicare605
United States16095 Posts
On November 23 2021 14:12 swarminfestor wrote: It is not just in the twitch chat. The cult has spreading to Youtube chat yesterday as well even he is not competing. It is so annoying and unfair to the players competing, and the cult keep chanting 'that man' all over the place. Which is exactly why I am staunchly voicing my opposition to this. I wouldnt be saying anything if these fools were not EVERYWHERE. Xainon would have you believe that Serral is unjustly overly criticized. The reality is that the opposite is actually what is happening. People that don't even give a fuck about Starcraft are coming out saying shit like this and it's everywhere. And for no good justifiable reason at least not anymore not in 2021. It's because of them I make the comparisons and observations that I do. Someone has to be the balancing factor here. Also @Xainon. You can call me many things but I am not a liar. What you specifically told me was that "you tend to get defensive" when it comes to Serral. You specifically told me that you get drawn into arguments that you SHOULD avoid, because you are defensive of Serral. I did not not say anything that quoted you that was contrary to what you told me. I did not misquote you. I did not make any claims that you said anything to me that you didn't. Just for the record, let's set that straight. Whatever elaboration you made in this thread is what YOU decided to say, don't make it sound like I forced you to because I didn't. | ||
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swarminfestor
Malaysia2449 Posts
On November 23 2021 18:36 Poopi wrote: The only reason Clem was even in the discussion about best TvZ was because he kept beating Serral and Reynor in low ping matches. However, there are other top zergs (namely Dark and Rogue or even DRG in ZvT), and he sure looked as mortal as Maru in cross server TvZ (check WTL). Plus now that Clem starts to struggle a bit more even against Serral and Reynor, while Maru dismantled them with unfavorable (vs Reynor with ping but decent hour) to very unfavorable (vs Serral with both ping and horrible hour, after a hard match vs Dark) conditions. Not only that but he also beat Serral 3-0 not that long ago as well as Rogue, and beat Rogue again recently ; albeit losing in group stages 1-2 to Serral (with less stakes but a loss is a loss). So yeah, comes Katowice maybe he wouldn’t have the undisputed TvZ, but at the moment there is absolutely no doubt. 2nd best TvZ wouldn’t be enough to beat Serral cross server at 6am. Yeah, Clem's TvZ skill was a bit shaky lately recently even he lost to Dark 3-0 in ESL Cup America in similar condition (I guess?). Clem's TvZ started losing momentum when he lost to Dark in TSL 7, ending his monstrous TvZ streak. Furthermore, he got beaten 0-3 by Rogue and other top tier Zerg players subsequently, strengthen the claims that his TvZ skill was a bit shaky since then. For me, he was just having problems against Korean Zergs and he just couldn't approach the similar strategies to deal with them since their game plays were different. Of course, Maru is the undisputed TvZ GOAT right now, able to beat every top-tier Zerg players in similar condition (Rogue, Dark) and unfavorable condition (Serral, Reynor). He manages to drag into the late game TvZ situations, something like Clem may not be able to prepare yet if he is in Maru shoes facing Serral instead. I think Clem will stuck into utilizing the sniping ability of Ghosts instead of transition into mech combos : blue flames Hellbats, Thors, Tanks and Ghosts at the back immediately to deal with the incoming Blords + Infestors+ Vipers + Queens. | ||
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Charoisaur
Germany16003 Posts
On November 23 2021 13:03 Xain0n wrote: "Undisputed" means that there is no contest and Clem is a serious contender. Maru did not qualify for NEXT because of his TvZ losses just a couple of weeks ago, let me remind you of that. This is exactly the point, you guys love Mary so much that everything he does is magnified to the extreme: "Maru's TvT has been outstanding in 2021, he was surely better than TY" or "Maru just won a tournament by defeating all the top Zerg so his TvZ prowess must be unmatchable". I am obviously not speaking of opinions for which Serral is not the GOAT(perfectly fine, I wouldn't say he is) or that he is overrated based on his results(ridicolously wrong and borderline blasphemous, still a "legit" opinion). I speak of actual player bashing which happened for years, such a frail memory you guys have. Whatever I may have admitted on Twitch, Vindicare, I can assure it's not what you made me say here. If even you as Serral fan say you wouldn't say he is the GOAT, doesn't that prove that he is overrated? Seeing that a lot of people and even casters call him that? Overrated doesn't mean bad, but when people give him more praise than he deserves (calling him the Goat) that is the definition of being overrated. | ||
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Xain0n
Italy3963 Posts
On November 23 2021 19:27 Vindicare605 wrote: Which is exactly why I am staunchly voicing my opposition to this. I wouldnt be saying anything if these fools were not EVERYWHERE. Xainon would have you believe that Serral is unjustly overly criticized. The reality is that the opposite is actually what is happening. People that don't even give a fuck about Starcraft are coming out saying shit like this and it's everywhere. And for no good justifiable reason at least not anymore not in 2021. It's because of them I make the comparisons and observations that I do. Someone has to be the balancing factor here. Also @Xainon. You can call me many things but I am not a liar. What you specifically told me was that "you tend to get defensive" when it comes to Serral. You specifically told me that you get drawn into arguments that you SHOULD avoid, because you are defensive of Serral. I did not not say anything that quoted you that was contrary to what you told me. I did not misquote you. I did not make any claims that you said anything to me that you didn't. Just for the record, let's set that straight. Whatever elaboration you made in this thread is what YOU decided to say, don't make it sound like I forced you to because I didn't. You didn't? "Serral has to be the GOAT. If he isn't there's something super wrong when by no metric he is". That's something I have never said or even implied. However, it's not like Serral is some clearly overrated top 97 guy like someone here would make us believe; he's not the GOAT but he could easily look like one so no, he's not overrated. As for the cult, don't make me laugh. The Cult of Holy Mary is the most pernicious one in Sc2 with people overflowing this forum in order to say how godlike he is when he takes one map off Percival or finding any kind of excuses when he gets swept out of tournaments in the ro8. Go figure what happens when Maru is in shape and convincingly looks like the best player in the world...every exaggeration is not only allowed but mandatory, I'm waiting for him to be called the best ZvP player in history. | ||
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Harris1st
Germany6989 Posts
On November 23 2021 20:30 Charoisaur wrote: If even you as Serral fan say you wouldn't say he is the GOAT, doesn't that prove that he is overrated? I'd say he is exactly right rated. Not the GOAT but goat material and obviously the best non korean to ever touch this game. | ||
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MarianoSC2
Slovakia1855 Posts
On November 23 2021 22:44 Harris1st wrote: I'd say he is exactly right rated. Not the GOAT but goat material and obviously the best non korean to ever touch this game. He is a potential GOAT of LOTV, like in top5, but the top 2 is so far away from everyone else its going to be almost impossible for anyone to overcome. The 2nd part is true for sure. | ||
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Vindicare605
United States16095 Posts
On November 23 2021 20:54 Xain0n wrote: You didn't? "Serral has to be the GOAT. If he isn't there's something super wrong when by no metric he is". That's something I have never said or even implied. However, it's not like Serral is some clearly overrated top 97 guy like someone here would make us believe; he's not the GOAT but he could easily look like one so no, he's not overrated. As for the cult, don't make me laugh. The Cult of Holy Mary is the most pernicious one in Sc2 with people overflowing this forum in order to say how godlike he is when he takes one map off Percival or finding any kind of excuses when he gets swept out of tournaments in the ro8. Go figure what happens when Maru is in shape and convincingly looks like the best player in the world...every exaggeration is not only allowed but mandatory, I'm waiting for him to be called the best ZvP player in history. Difference. Difference. I only ever quoted you in what I said in between the quotation marks or what I specifically said that you said. Whatever else is just my speculation. And to be fair they are usually fair statements about what I see across the internet because whenever I talk about how Serral fans are, it's usually actually worse than what I am describing. | ||
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Vindicare605
United States16095 Posts
On November 23 2021 22:44 Harris1st wrote: and obviously the best non korean to ever touch this game. That's been without question for at least 3 years now. | ||
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tennisl
United Kingdom44 Posts
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