(Vote): ★★★★★ - One of the best games this season (Vote): ★★★★ - Highly recommended game (Vote): ★★★ - Good game (Vote): ★★ - If you have time (Vote): ★ - Don't watch this game
Poll: Recommend RagnaroK vs INnoVation?
★★★★ - Highly recommended game (25)
81%
★★★★★ - One of the best games this season (4)
13%
★★ - If you have time (1)
3%
★ - Don't watch this game (1)
3%
★★★ - Good game (0)
0%
31 total votes
Your vote: Recommend RagnaroK vs INnoVation?
(Vote): ★★★★★ - One of the best games this season (Vote): ★★★★ - Highly recommended game (Vote): ★★★ - Good game (Vote): ★★ - If you have time (Vote): ★ - Don't watch this game
Poll: Recommend SuperNova vs CranK?
★★★★★ - One of the best games this season (17)
63%
★★★★ - Highly recommended game (5)
19%
★★ - If you have time (3)
11%
★★★ - Good game (1)
4%
★ - Don't watch this game (1)
4%
27 total votes
Your vote: Recommend SuperNova vs CranK?
(Vote): ★★★★★ - One of the best games this season (Vote): ★★★★ - Highly recommended game (Vote): ★★★ - Good game (Vote): ★★ - If you have time (Vote): ★ - Don't watch this game
Poll: Recommend Center vs Alicia?
★★★ - Good game (6)
43%
★★★★ - Highly recommended game (4)
29%
★★ - If you have time (3)
21%
★ - Don't watch this game (1)
7%
★★★★★ - One of the best games this season (0)
0%
14 total votes
Your vote: Recommend Center vs Alicia?
(Vote): ★★★★★ - One of the best games this season (Vote): ★★★★ - Highly recommended game (Vote): ★★★ - Good game (Vote): ★★ - If you have time (Vote): ★ - Don't watch this game
(Vote): ★★★★★ - One of the best games this season (Vote): ★★★★ - Highly recommended game (Vote): ★★★ - Good game (Vote): ★★ - If you have time (Vote): ★ - Don't watch this game
Poll: Recommend Sleep vs MMA?
★★★★ - Highly recommended game (4)
33%
★★★★★ - One of the best games this season (2)
17%
★★★ - Good game (2)
17%
★★ - If you have time (2)
17%
★ - Don't watch this game (2)
17%
12 total votes
Your vote: Recommend Sleep vs MMA?
(Vote): ★★★★★ - One of the best games this season (Vote): ★★★★ - Highly recommended game (Vote): ★★★ - Good game (Vote): ★★ - If you have time (Vote): ★ - Don't watch this game
Poll: Recommend the Ace match?
★★★ - Good game (7)
64%
★★★★★ - One of the best games this season (1)
9%
★★★★ - Highly recommended game (1)
9%
★★ - If you have time (1)
9%
★ - Don't watch this game (1)
9%
11 total votes
Your vote: Recommend the Ace match?
(Vote): ★★★★★ - One of the best games this season (Vote): ★★★★ - Highly recommended game (Vote): ★★★ - Good game (Vote): ★★ - If you have time (Vote): ★ - Don't watch this game
On November 22 2013 13:17 Bagration wrote: If Axiom-Acer wins, MMA, Ryung and Alicia will be the first players in SC2 history to have won 3 GSTL titles.
I wouldn't even compare the first 2 GSTL's to these tbh
On November 22 2013 13:17 Bagration wrote: If Axiom-Acer wins, MMA, Ryung and Alicia will be the first players in SC2 history to have won 3 GSTL titles.
I wouldn't even compare the first 2 GSTL's to these tbh
Well, I'm not going to argue about tournament difficulty, but just looking at numbers and raw stats.
Ready to rock this thing. Azubu has a strong lineup, they picked really well for their maps, but we've had a long time to prepare and a lot of material to look at. Our guys want this more than anything, I'm confident in their ability to win.
On November 22 2013 15:02 TotalBiscuit wrote: Ready to rock this thing. Azubu has a strong lineup, they picked really well for their maps, but we've had a long time to prepare and a lot of material to look at. Our guys want this more than anything, I'm confident in their ability to win.
Your two PvT's in the middle will likely be the swing matches. If a team wins both I think they will have it, since I expect the first two games to be split.
On November 22 2013 15:02 TotalBiscuit wrote: Ready to rock this thing. Azubu has a strong lineup, they picked really well for their maps, but we've had a long time to prepare and a lot of material to look at. Our guys want this more than anything, I'm confident in their ability to win.
Your two PvT's in the middle will likely be the swing matches. If a team wins both I think they will have it, since I expect the first two games to be split.
I'm very confident in CranKs ability to take out Supernova. CranK has demonstrated exceptional late-game PvT and as long as Supernova doesn't play the ghost-less style well and isn't able to shut down CranKs runbys, I think CranK will take that nicely.
Alicia will not lose to Center again. He's in good shape going into this.
I'm surprised to see Axiom-Acer favoured so heavily here. I'll be barracking for them like a madman, but I can't help but feel that Azubu has soooo got this.
On November 22 2013 18:23 WigglingSquid wrote: 4k viewers for GSTL finals? T_T
Sadly GSTL has low viewing figures.
My absolute dream is to have all the Kespa teams in the GSTL too so it's proleague but in the GOM studio and casted by Wolf and Khaldor. A man can dream...
On November 22 2013 18:23 WigglingSquid wrote: 4k viewers for GSTL finals? T_T
Sadly GSTL has low viewing figures.
My absolute dream is to have all the Kespa teams in the GSTL too so it's proleague but in the GOM studio and casted by Wolf and Khaldor. A man can dream...
Well, KeSPA doesn't have resident english casters. When Proleague comes, they might hire Wolfdor instead of rummaging elsewhere.
Also, I think that from now on I will call Ryung something like Rainbow Terran.
On November 22 2013 18:23 WigglingSquid wrote: 4k viewers for GSTL finals? T_T
Sadly GSTL has low viewing figures.
My absolute dream is to have all the Kespa teams in the GSTL too so it's proleague but in the GOM studio and casted by Wolf and Khaldor. A man can dream...
Well, KeSPA doesn't have resident english casters. When Proleague comes, they might hire Wolfdor instead of rummaging elsewhere.
Whiplash will still be casting proleague afaik(with sombody that is TBA), also I don't think wolf and khaldor could cast proleague unless they quit gom altogether or at least that's what i assume.
I wish they'd focus on Ryung catching the overlord being a good thing for Ryung rather than a terrible thing for Symbol. Positive casting is so much better smh
On November 22 2013 18:33 Die4Ever wrote: I feel like Wolf and Khaldor are slightly quieter than normal (and it's normally really quiet already), turn up the mics!
On November 22 2013 18:33 Die4Ever wrote: I feel like Wolf and Khaldor are slightly quieter than normal (and it's normally really quiet already), turn up the mics!
They indeed are.
I wish streamers would focus a little more on maximizing their volume, to get them closer to the super loud volume of ads. And for convenience.
On November 22 2013 18:33 Die4Ever wrote: I feel like Wolf and Khaldor are slightly quieter than normal (and it's normally really quiet already), turn up the mics!
They indeed are.
I wish streamers would focus a little more on maximizing their volume, to get them closer to the super loud volume of ads. And for convenience.
Thats impossible, the advertisers would never let them do that.
On November 22 2013 18:38 Fjodorov wrote: this mass ling/bling style can be really good now after the patch
Yea, notice how Ryung wasn't very aggressive in the early game with his hellions/reapers? That's because Jaedong's early 3 base bane bust makes it super easy to just counter and win the game. Even if they make mines early, it wont matter and they just get run over.
On November 22 2013 18:38 Fjodorov wrote: this mass ling/bling style can be really good now after the patch
Yea, notice how Ryung wasn't very aggressive in the early game with his hellions/reapers? That's because Jaedong's early 3 base bane bust makes it super easy to just counter and win the game. Even if they make mines early, it wont matter and they just get run over.
That's because he wanted to keep them alive for his timing, and not risk losing them to lings on the map. Also awkward to move out without a wall complete at the natural.
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I really hope Innovation wins now, just to see his ceremony. He doesn't seem like the type to do ceremonies at all, but I hope he has something prepared.
On November 22 2013 18:51 Keeemy wrote: I really hope Innovation wins now, just to see his ceremony. He doesn't seem like the type to do ceremonies at all, but I hope he has something prepared.
On November 22 2013 18:51 Keeemy wrote: I really hope Innovation wins now, just to see his ceremony. He doesn't seem like the type to do ceremonies at all, but I hope he has something prepared.
Did I miss something? It felt like all Symbol did was build nonstop lings the moment he realized Ryung was going for an earlier drop...and Ryung just suffocated cause he couldn't really...do anything...at all...
On November 22 2013 18:53 PineapplePizza wrote: Did I miss something? It felt like all Symbol did was build nonstop lings the moment he realized Ryung was going for an earlier drop...and Ryung just suffocated cause he couldn't really...do anything...at all...
On November 22 2013 18:53 PineapplePizza wrote: Did I miss something? It felt like all Symbol did was build nonstop lings the moment he realized Ryung was going for an earlier drop...and Ryung just suffocated cause he couldn't really...do anything...at all...
Symbol didn't take all his gases and skipped spire so he had more units. That's why Ryung's first push got rolled ezpz.
(Vote): ★★★★★ - One of the best games this season (Vote): ★★★★ - Highly recommended game (Vote): ★★★ - Good game (Vote): ★★ - If you have time (Vote): ★ - Don't watch this game
On November 22 2013 18:53 PineapplePizza wrote: Did I miss something? It felt like all Symbol did was build nonstop lings the moment he realized Ryung was going for an earlier drop...and Ryung just suffocated cause he couldn't really...do anything...at all...
he stayed on 55-60 drones for a while (dont need more for mass lings) and focused on upgrades. Mass lings is strong before the WM count gets very high or terran army gets very big. And you can afford leaving groups of lings at every base to defend drops instead of putting lots of reasources into 10 mutas. He was in complete control of the game.
On November 22 2013 18:53 PineapplePizza wrote: Did I miss something? It felt like all Symbol did was build nonstop lings the moment he realized Ryung was going for an earlier drop...and Ryung just suffocated cause he couldn't really...do anything...at all...
yes you did
Ofcourse a Zerg points out that he missed something. Yes the mine-nerf.
On November 22 2013 18:53 PineapplePizza wrote: Did I miss something? It felt like all Symbol did was build nonstop lings the moment he realized Ryung was going for an earlier drop...and Ryung just suffocated cause he couldn't really...do anything...at all...
Naw, if Ryung had anticipated the BL's sooner and prepped more vikings the momentum probably would've shifted the other way and he'd of won.
On November 22 2013 19:19 WigglingSquid wrote: For one happy second I thought that Innovation was going to snipe the drone mining the lemon minerals...
The drone with the lemon should totally become visible on the minimap when it grabs the lemon. That'd be sweet sour.
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On November 22 2013 19:20 Keeemy wrote: I still don't see Ragnarok winning this even tho he is playing well
E: Just I say this Inno takes a bad engagement
Mines aren't as potent as before. The 'bad engagements' people see, just show how much Terran needed the mine.
I agree but it was a horrible position for Inno. He got sandwiched and caught while moving.
You cannot prevent Zerg flanks.
Are you even trying
How do you prevent a flank from an army that is more mobile and faster than yours, also has better map vision and speedbonus on creep. Care to explain? In the past it was 'a good move' to flank (in Broodwar standard) and nowadays its a mistake to be flanked? Its simply not up to you to not be flanked, you need to be aggressive and naturally an aggressive position will leave you a bit more exposed.
On November 22 2013 19:26 JonIrenicus wrote: I don't udnerstand if Innovation is getting way worse, or if it was just the widow mine nerf. Thank you David kim, I hope you are watching all these tanks
Finally RagnaroK shows his skills <3 RagnaroK and Life were the most talanted zerg players back in 2012 Life became the star now it is time for RagnaroK.
On November 22 2013 19:26 JonIrenicus wrote: I don't udnerstand if Innovation is getting way worse, or if it was just the widow mine nerf. Thank you David kim, I hope you are watching all these tanks
On November 22 2013 19:26 JonIrenicus wrote: I don't udnerstand if Innovation is getting way worse, or if it was just the widow mine nerf. Thank you David kim, I hope you are watching all these tanks
The roach/ling/baling timing killed alot of scvs and the third and then the muta follow up killed alot of scvs in the main. Innovation was around 50-55 scvs all game long vs 75-80 drones. Good flanks, harass and pretty good unit control by ragnarok aswell.
On November 22 2013 19:26 JonIrenicus wrote: I don't udnerstand if Innovation is getting way worse, or if it was just the widow mine nerf. Thank you David kim, I hope you are watching all these tanks
watch Bomber and Supernova...
SoulKey played terribly vs Bomber to be fair. If SoulKey brings out standard play Bomber is screwed. He did work on his TvZ, but its still not as good as INnoVation even though he lost here.
On November 22 2013 19:26 JonIrenicus wrote: I don't udnerstand if Innovation is getting way worse, or if it was just the widow mine nerf. Thank you David kim, I hope you are watching all these tanks
On November 22 2013 19:26 JonIrenicus wrote: I don't udnerstand if Innovation is getting way worse, or if it was just the widow mine nerf. Thank you David kim, I hope you are watching all these tanks
Well he did drop to Duckdeok in the first round of wcs global finals so I guess he is in a slump.
On November 22 2013 19:26 JonIrenicus wrote: I don't udnerstand if Innovation is getting way worse, or if it was just the widow mine nerf. Thank you David kim, I hope you are watching all these tanks
The roach/ling/baling timing killed alot of scvs and the third and then the muta follow up killed alot of scvs in the main. Innovation was around 50-55 scvs all game long vs 75-80 drones. Good flanks, harass and pretty good unit control by ragnarok aswell.
the roach baneling attack was hardly worth it, it was the muta attacks, and ling counters that killed the scvs
On November 22 2013 19:26 JonIrenicus wrote: I don't udnerstand if Innovation is getting way worse, or if it was just the widow mine nerf. Thank you David kim, I hope you are watching all these tanks
watch Bomber and Supernova...
I think he is talking about zergs who play muta ling/bling. We already knew tanks are good vs roaches :o
On November 22 2013 19:26 JonIrenicus wrote: I don't udnerstand if Innovation is getting way worse, or if it was just the widow mine nerf. Thank you David kim, I hope you are watching all these tanks
watch Bomber and Supernova...
SoulKey played terribly vs Bomber to be fair. If SoulKey brings out standard play Bomber is screwed. He did work on his TvZ, but its still not as good as INnoVation even though he lost here.
I thought Bomber's ideas were interesting, but yeah. Soulkey played bad in that series.
On November 22 2013 19:26 JonIrenicus wrote: I don't udnerstand if Innovation is getting way worse, or if it was just the widow mine nerf. Thank you David kim, I hope you are watching all these tanks
Well he did drop to Duckdeok in the first round of wcs global finals so I guess he is in a slump.
Not really, he mostly lost coinflips in that series.
On November 22 2013 19:26 JonIrenicus wrote: I don't udnerstand if Innovation is getting way worse, or if it was just the widow mine nerf. Thank you David kim, I hope you are watching all these tanks
The roach/ling/baling timing killed alot of scvs and the third and then the muta follow up killed alot of scvs in the main. Innovation was around 50-55 scvs all game long vs 75-80 drones. Good flanks, harass and pretty good unit control by ragnarok aswell.
Innovation has come back from worst. Yes Ragnarok played fantastic, but no where near the level of DRG, Curious or Soulkey when they stomped Innovation.
On November 22 2013 19:26 JonIrenicus wrote: I don't udnerstand if Innovation is getting way worse, or if it was just the widow mine nerf. Thank you David kim, I hope you are watching all these tanks
The roach/ling/baling timing killed alot of scvs and the third and then the muta follow up killed alot of scvs in the main. Innovation was around 50-55 scvs all game long vs 75-80 drones. Good flanks, harass and pretty good unit control by ragnarok aswell.
the roach baneling attack was hardly worth it, it was the muta attacks, and ling counters that killed the scvs
yeah it was defended but it did kill scvs and by the time mutas had done the job he had killed 25+ scvs. And ragnarok never upgraded raoches so the attack was just to slow innovation down alot.
Mech doesn't work vs Protoss. Even TaeJa said that it could work vs foreign players but not vs Koreans. If you do not play it like Bomber vs Rain on Anaconda (he still lost) and get away with 3 ccs and 1 marine, factory and armory .. you are dead to begin with.
On November 22 2013 19:32 Squat wrote: can't believe I missed that game, I assumed Inno would stomp so I went to the store. I suppose catching a replay would be worth it?
On November 22 2013 19:32 NarutO wrote: Mech doesn't work vs Protoss. Even TaeJa said that it could work vs foreign players but not vs Koreans. If you do not play it like Bomber vs Rain on Anaconda (he still lost) and get away with 3 ccs and 1 marine, factory and armory .. you are dead to begin with.
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If you are going to go for a proxy oracle skipping everything blindly vs SuperNoVa you better not complain. :x Why would you play blindly vs one of the most tricky players ever?
On November 22 2013 19:36 WigglingSquid wrote: Come on guys, a BO win is not "one of the best games of the season" just because it's in the finals.
in team games like this where you have a blind counter build win it is amazing. It could just be luck... but it could also be attributed to great coach play reading what the other team will do etc etc. (we may never know how much that plays into it, but the fact that it can is what makes these team leagues so interesting to me)
On November 22 2013 19:38 Zackeva wrote: Wouldn't say Crank was unlucky.... if you don't scout WHATSOEVER there's a huge chance you're going to be punished for it. : S
it's unlucky because it's a build order loss, you don't scout when doing proxy oracle especially on a 2 player map
Proxy oracles are actually very obvious on the map. You cannot move down to the proxy location to threaten it, so even if you would scout it, you cannot do anything about the stargate. Obviously that doesn't mean its going to be played but the rate would be higher on that map I assume. Doing 11 11 was very smart and for Crank to play exactly a build thats strong on the map wasn't the smartest thing ever, especially considering SuperNoVa can do very tricky stuff.
11/11 and even a proxy factory with mines could easily crush this build and SuperNoVa did both in the past. I think CranK picked a wrong build.
On November 22 2013 19:40 NarutO wrote: Proxy oracles are actually very obvious on the map. You cannot move down to the proxy location to threaten it, so even if you would scout it, you cannot do anything about the stargate. Obviously that doesn't mean its going to be played but the rate would be higher on that map I assume. Doing 11 11 was very smart and for Crank to play exactly a build thats strong on the map wasn't the smartest thing ever, especially considering SuperNoVa can do very tricky stuff.
11/11 and even a proxy factory with mines could easily crush this build and SuperNoVa did both in the past. I think CranK picked a wrong build.
On November 22 2013 15:02 TotalBiscuit wrote: Ready to rock this thing. Azubu has a strong lineup, they picked really well for their maps, but we've had a long time to prepare and a lot of material to look at. Our guys want this more than anything, I'm confident in their ability to win.
Your two PvT's in the middle will likely be the swing matches. If a team wins both I think they will have it, since I expect the first two games to be split.
I'm very confident in CranKs ability to take out Supernova. CranK has demonstrated exceptional late-game PvT and as long as Supernova doesn't play the ghost-less style well and isn't able to shut down CranKs runbys, I think CranK will take that nicely.
Alicia will not lose to Center again. He's in good shape going into this.
Looks like the practice time would have been better spent on early game. );
People are sad and down already? What is wrong with you. Its the first day of the finals and even if they lose 0-4 they can come back in the other days. BoxeR didn't give up in game 5 against Pusan when his double proxy barracks were scouted and cancelled and he won the game.
If Center does the same thing it would be the funniest ending to team league ever. Kind of hoping he does, terrans need to punish proxy oracle more, it's such a flimsy build.
Alicia could certainly win his game. Heart vs B4 can be a bit tough, never know with Heart though. From the games ive seen sleep play ZvT I would say MMA wins 49/50 times. But maybe sleep has practiced his injects :o
On November 22 2013 19:45 Squat wrote: If Center does the same thing it would be the funniest ending to team league ever. Kind of hoping he does, terrans need to punish proxy oracle more, it's such a flimsy build.
Wouldn't the protoss be fine if he just gets the mothership core before proxying the stargate?
On November 22 2013 19:46 Fjodorov wrote: Alicia could certainly win his game. Heart vs B4 can be a bit tough, never know with Heart though. From the games ive seen sleep play ZvT I would say MMA wins 49/50 times. But maybe sleep has practiced his injects :o
Heart vs B4 might be one of the toughest games to call ever. They both have times where they look amazing and other times where they just confuse everybody watching.
On November 22 2013 19:46 Fjodorov wrote: Alicia could certainly win his game. Heart vs B4 can be a bit tough, never know with Heart though. From the games ive seen sleep play ZvT I would say MMA wins 49/50 times. But maybe sleep has practiced his injects :o
Heart vs B4 might be one of the toughest games to call ever. They both have times where they look amazing and other times where they just confuse everybody watching.
Heart has always had a very impressive TvZ imo. He got this.
On November 22 2013 19:45 Squat wrote: If Center does the same thing it would be the funniest ending to team league ever. Kind of hoping he does, terrans need to punish proxy oracle more, it's such a flimsy build.
Wouldn't the protoss be fine if he just gets the mothership core before proxying the stargate?
Well we saw how 'easy' the hold is if you actually get units. He killed 4 out of 5 marines even though he had lost the majority of his probes already, he still got the bunker low. With a MSC and a stalker he would have easily held.
On November 22 2013 19:45 Squat wrote: If Center does the same thing it would be the funniest ending to team league ever. Kind of hoping he does, terrans need to punish proxy oracle more, it's such a flimsy build.
Wouldn't the protoss be fine if he just gets the mothership core before proxying the stargate?
Need at least a Stalker, the MSC alone would not be enough.
lol @ Crank "have been practising so hard" and then chooses to do one of the cheesiest of builds and gets outcheesed. Not a direct sign of "hard practise"
On November 22 2013 19:52 Glorfindel! wrote: lol @ Crank "have been practising so hard" and then chooses to do one of the cheesiest of builds and gets outcheesed. Not a direct sign of "hard practise"
Practice doesn't show in one game. Who are you to judge how many builds he tried? Who are you to judge how the game looks like if it continues? He wanted to kill SuperNoVa, doesn't mean he would have. Etc pp. People need to understand that 5 minutes of an actual game doesn't show how much practice something had beforehand.
On November 22 2013 19:52 Glorfindel! wrote: lol @ Crank "have been practising so hard" and then chooses to do one of the cheesiest of builds and gets outcheesed. Not a direct sign of "hard practise"
Well. He might very well have been going through his replays, analyse build orders and come up with a build. So I think it's very unfair to think that just because he proxy oracles it's not because of hard practice.
On November 22 2013 19:50 c0olL wrote: The standard meta for P is proxy orcals now, quick David Kim, make it even stronger!
Just buff proxy rax builds and it evens out.
Or nerf the imbaship core. i loved to see T proxy 2 rax a P, so much skill is required. it was very impressive and entertaining but now we hardly see it thanks to the MSC.
I think AxA has a good chance to win this IF Heart wins vs B4. He got crushed by Curious in his last game but people keep saying that his TvZ is good so I guess he has a chance.
Alicia should win this game no problem but Center is kind of a wildcard. MMA vs Sleep is very even but I think MMA has a slight edge.
On November 22 2013 20:01 Keeemy wrote: I think AxA has a good chance to win this IF Heart wins vs B4. He got crushed by Curious in his last game but people keep saying that his TvZ is good so I guess he has a chance.
Alicia should win this game no problem but Center is kind of a wildcard. MMA vs Sleep is very even but I think MMA has a slight edge.
Gogogogo
Curious is one of the best ZvT players currently, so losing to him doesn't mean much
On November 22 2013 20:01 Keeemy wrote: I think AxA has a good chance to win this IF Heart wins vs B4. He got crushed by Curious in his last game but people keep saying that his TvZ is good so I guess he has a chance.
Alicia should win this game no problem but Center is kind of a wildcard. MMA vs Sleep is very even but I think MMA has a slight edge.
Gogogogo
Curious is one of the best ZvT players currently, so losing to him doesn't mean much
But that game was so incredibly one-sided that I really don't have faith in Heart's TvZ. I hope he proves me wrong.
E: Doesn't matter cus this is looking very grim for Alicia.
On November 22 2013 20:01 Keeemy wrote: I think AxA has a good chance to win this IF Heart wins vs B4. He got crushed by Curious in his last game but people keep saying that his TvZ is good so I guess he has a chance.
Alicia should win this game no problem but Center is kind of a wildcard. MMA vs Sleep is very even but I think MMA has a slight edge.
Gogogogo
Curious is one of the best ZvT players currently, so losing to him doesn't mean much
But that game was so incredibly one-sided that I really don't trust in Heart's TvZ. I hope he proves me wrong.
Curious beat Innovation pre-patch TvZ. It's not too surprising if it was one-sided
On November 22 2013 20:01 Heartland wrote: He saw two Stalkers in the base, that's relatively funky. Might give him a heads up
Seeing 2 Stalkers means nothing.
Depends on what other units there are and how they're positioned. If you do these three-Stalker builds you're usually out on the map with at least one to spot for the incoming marine attack so you can micro vs it. If you don't then you usually have at least one Sentry at home.
Everyone who watched the game can say how clueless Heart looked. I don't know what happened to him but even tho Curious has sick good ZvT, he just looked horrible.
This game is suddenly looking better for Alicia! FIGHTINGGG
I really thought Alicia was fucked, very impressive how calm and collected he's been in playing this out. I should probably go for a longer game now, he has good upgrades and tech.
I hate when Terrans scout with the factory and don't think to get an armory before it dies... (almost as much as I hate when scouts walk within pixles of a watchtower without getting the vision).
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On November 22 2013 20:10 Tobblish wrote: Center with the sick throw.
haha what?
Could/should have won in like 12 minuts with a Marines/Tanks push after the 1-1-1 attack, but wasted a nearly full Medivac and stopped Tank production.
I thought that would be a better option to Alicia to tech to colossus (after the blink stalkers ownage) instead of going for the kill right away. I was wrong?
On November 22 2013 20:10 Tobblish wrote: Center with the sick throw.
haha what?
Late with adding on 2nd cc, raxes not hitting his production cycles and not starting the Armory. It was horrible to watch because he hold off Alicas blink attack and was in a great spot but just collapsed.
On November 22 2013 20:12 Tiaraju9 wrote: Interesting game.
I thought that would be a better option to Alicia to tech to colossus (after the blink stalkers ownage) instead of going for the kill right away. I was wrong?
Yes, Templar transitions give you a much better chance when playing from behind.
On November 22 2013 20:12 Tiaraju9 wrote: Interesting game.
I thought that would be a better option to Alicia to tech to colossus (after the blink stalkers ownage) instead of going for the kill right away. I was wrong?
Yes, Templar transitions give you a much better chance when playing from behind.
I'm refering to the point where Alicia went to the kill with the first big push with templars. Watching the game I thought that would be better tech to colossus and make a third instead.
On November 22 2013 20:14 Noonius wrote: comeback?
I could see it. Heart is pretty good, MMA vs Sleep might be close but MMA should be favored. Sleep is still a mystery to me.
granted I havent seen Sleep play in the last 3 weeks but I have seen some ZvTs from him this season and frankly, his macro makes me want to smash my screen ^^
On November 22 2013 20:14 Noonius wrote: comeback?
I could see it. Heart is pretty good, MMA vs Sleep might be close but MMA should be favored. Sleep is still a mystery to me.
Sleeps TvZ has looked quite good last GSL season. Played very calm, with just the one or other little control mistake here or there and floating too much when it becomes tense.
On November 22 2013 20:14 Noonius wrote: comeback?
I could see it. Heart is pretty good, MMA vs Sleep might be close but MMA should be favored. Sleep is still a mystery to me.
granted I havent seen Sleep play in the last 3 weeks but I have seen some ZvTs from him this season and frankly, his macro makes me want to smash my screen ^^
I would say MMA over Sleep easily, but who knows after the new patch...
On November 22 2013 20:14 Noonius wrote: comeback?
I could see it. Heart is pretty good, MMA vs Sleep might be close but MMA should be favored. Sleep is still a mystery to me.
Sleeps TvZ has looked quite good last GSL season. Played very calm, with just the one or other little control mistake here or there and floating too much when it becomes tense.
He is intelligent, clever, plays some dirty builds. But he lacks the mechanical prowess of other zergs so if it kicks into the highly aggressive mid-game is when he can die.
On November 22 2013 20:14 Noonius wrote: comeback?
I could see it. Heart is pretty good, MMA vs Sleep might be close but MMA should be favored. Sleep is still a mystery to me.
To me Sleep looks like a really smart and good player engagement and map awareness wise. But his macro is just horrible by pro gamer standards, he frequently banks 2k m and 1k g, because he doesn't inject well enough or forgets macro hatches or god knows what.
I think if Sleep hasn't fixed his macro issues then he has no chance vs MMA, however if he has honed his skills then he could be deadly.
On November 22 2013 20:14 Noonius wrote: comeback?
I could see it. Heart is pretty good, MMA vs Sleep might be close but MMA should be favored. Sleep is still a mystery to me.
Sleeps TvZ has looked quite good last GSL season. Played very calm, with just the one or other little control mistake here or there and floating too much when it becomes tense.
yeah I mean he does get himself into a good position but when his 75-80 drone economy kicks in he starts floating 2-3k minerals but this is something he definitely could have been working hard on. Lets see if it gets to that though. Heart needs to make this exciting first.
On November 22 2013 20:12 Tiaraju9 wrote: Interesting game.
I thought that would be a better option to Alicia to tech to colossus (after the blink stalkers ownage) instead of going for the kill right away. I was wrong?
Yes, Templar transitions give you a much better chance when playing from behind.
I'm refering to the point where Alicia went to the kill with the first big push with templars. Watching the game I thought that would be better tech to colossus and make a third instead.
Teching to colossus at that point in time would have left Alicia with too few units considering Center wasn't upgrading nor teching to ghosts. Remember Alicia didn't even have a robo. Staying on templar was the only way. Though the 3rd could have been quicker.
I really don't agree with reaper openings on WW. A single, predictable angle from which reapers can come in means they get very limited scouting and damage done. I think 14 CC is a better choice on WW.
On November 22 2013 20:26 Destructicon wrote: I really don't agree with reaper openings on WW. A single, predictable angle from which reapers can come in means they get very limited scouting and damage done. I think 14 CC is a better choice on WW.
Depends on what he wants to play after it. If he wants to play pressure hellion + reaper and banshee, it has very good synergy that you cannot get without reapers. (as they buffer queen shots and heal up)
The hellions shot the queens a fraction of a second before the lings entered their range, which is why they were surrounded. That was so ridicolously close.
On November 22 2013 20:34 Fjodorov wrote: WM are so weird. Sometimes it takes forever for them to get of the shot
It's because it takes time between they target and fire. If the marines then kill the target, or the target moves out of range, the widow mine will have to re-target, and it takes even longer.
Or the player controlling the mine is keeps targeting different targets, delaying the shot.
On November 22 2013 20:35 WigglingSquid wrote: The widowmine nerf looks bad in these TvZs.
Zergs don't even care anymore about them, they will split a bit and just run over them. Before the nerf they didn't dare to get close (they could, it was a mental thing) but now they can basically ignore them.
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On November 22 2013 20:36 Niko_Thien wrote: Are the WMs doing more friendly fire since the new patch or am I just a whiny terran? :D
Scarlett actually said that she didn't like the change since she felt she could not kill bio with friendly fire as well any more. Make of that what you will.
On November 22 2013 20:36 Niko_Thien wrote: Are the WMs doing more friendly fire since the new patch or am I just a whiny terran? :D
Scarlett actually said that she didn't like the change since she felt she could not kill bio with friendly fire as well any more. Make of that what you will.
Actually mines seem better in big supply fights because it's really hard to detonate them now (and with the bio in support it's nearly impossible). In low supply fights however ...
heart overextended with half his army supply on creep. He was at 175 supply so he should have maxed out and made a big push instead. Snowballing effect leaves almost no room for comebacks for terran. Back in WoL you would still have 2 tank at home but 3-4 WM wont do shit.
On November 22 2013 20:36 Niko_Thien wrote: Are the WMs doing more friendly fire since the new patch or am I just a whiny terran? :D
Scarlett actually said that she didn't like the change since she felt she could not kill bio with friendly fire as well any more. Make of that what you will.
Actually mines seem better in big supply fights because it's really hard to detonate them now (and with the bio in support it's nearly impossible). In low supply fights however ...
On November 22 2013 20:36 Niko_Thien wrote: Are the WMs doing more friendly fire since the new patch or am I just a whiny terran? :D
Scarlett actually said that she didn't like the change since she felt she could not kill bio with friendly fire as well any more. Make of that what you will.
Actually mines seem better in big supply fights because it's really hard to detonate them now (and with the bio in support it's nearly impossible). In low supply fights however ...
Yes they are very good in big supply fights? What are you saying man. Ridiculous. We saw how "GOOD" they are in INnoVations bigger fights, they scratched a few units-_-
On November 22 2013 20:36 Niko_Thien wrote: Are the WMs doing more friendly fire since the new patch or am I just a whiny terran? :D
Scarlett actually said that she didn't like the change since she felt she could not kill bio with friendly fire as well any more. Make of that what you will.
Except Mines are supposed to deal more damage to Zerg than to Terran anyway. Mines doing less friendly fire is fairly insignificant since the Zerg army can comfortably slaughter Terran's troops on its own.
On November 22 2013 20:36 Niko_Thien wrote: Are the WMs doing more friendly fire since the new patch or am I just a whiny terran? :D
Scarlett actually said that she didn't like the change since she felt she could not kill bio with friendly fire as well any more. Make of that what you will.
Actually mines seem better in big supply fights because it's really hard to detonate them now (and with the bio in support it's nearly impossible). In low supply fights however ...
Yes they are very good in big supply fights? What are you saying man. Ridiculous. We saw how "GOOD" they are in INnoVations bigger fights, they scratched a few units-_-
Well if you watched HSC Jjajkji and Taeja had no problems to win with it.
On November 22 2013 20:36 Niko_Thien wrote: Are the WMs doing more friendly fire since the new patch or am I just a whiny terran? :D
Scarlett actually said that she didn't like the change since she felt she could not kill bio with friendly fire as well any more. Make of that what you will.
Actually mines seem better in big supply fights because it's really hard to detonate them now (and with the bio in support it's nearly impossible). In low supply fights however ...
how has detonating them become harder? They are just worse. They are still costefficient against MLB, but biomine all game long may not stand up to Zerg anymore and transitions or other styles don't look viable.
On November 22 2013 20:36 Niko_Thien wrote: Are the WMs doing more friendly fire since the new patch or am I just a whiny terran? :D
Scarlett actually said that she didn't like the change since she felt she could not kill bio with friendly fire as well any more. Make of that what you will.
Actually mines seem better in big supply fights because it's really hard to detonate them now (and with the bio in support it's nearly impossible). In low supply fights however ...
Yes they are very good in big supply fights? What are you saying man. Ridiculous. We saw how "GOOD" they are in INnoVations bigger fights, they scratched a few units-_-
Well if you watched HSC Jjajkji and Taeja had no problems to win with it.
Well jjakji is about three times good as the terrans that played today. Very hard to include him when talking balance.
On November 22 2013 20:36 Niko_Thien wrote: Are the WMs doing more friendly fire since the new patch or am I just a whiny terran? :D
Scarlett actually said that she didn't like the change since she felt she could not kill bio with friendly fire as well any more. Make of that what you will.
Actually mines seem better in big supply fights because it's really hard to detonate them now (and with the bio in support it's nearly impossible). In low supply fights however ...
Yes they are very good in big supply fights? What are you saying man. Ridiculous. We saw how "GOOD" they are in INnoVations bigger fights, they scratched a few units-_-
Well if you watched HSC Jjajkji and Taeja had no problems to win with it.
Might have something to do with the fact they were the best players there.
On November 22 2013 20:36 Niko_Thien wrote: Are the WMs doing more friendly fire since the new patch or am I just a whiny terran? :D
Scarlett actually said that she didn't like the change since she felt she could not kill bio with friendly fire as well any more. Make of that what you will.
Actually mines seem better in big supply fights because it's really hard to detonate them now (and with the bio in support it's nearly impossible). In low supply fights however ...
Yes they are very good in big supply fights? What are you saying man. Ridiculous. We saw how "GOOD" they are in INnoVations bigger fights, they scratched a few units-_-
NarutO, no disrespect, I really value your opinion a lot, but are you really surprised at this? Both Zerg and Terran players complained a lot about the mine being stupid in the beta. It's either too strong or too weak. Simply a badly designed unit.
But this is not the topic for a LR thread. Why not open a thread about it? I'm sure you have a lot to say about this and people are interested in your opinion(Being honest here, no sarcasm included.)
On November 22 2013 20:36 Niko_Thien wrote: Are the WMs doing more friendly fire since the new patch or am I just a whiny terran? :D
Scarlett actually said that she didn't like the change since she felt she could not kill bio with friendly fire as well any more. Make of that what you will.
Actually mines seem better in big supply fights because it's really hard to detonate them now (and with the bio in support it's nearly impossible). In low supply fights however ...
Yes they are very good in big supply fights? What are you saying man. Ridiculous. We saw how "GOOD" they are in INnoVations bigger fights, they scratched a few units-_-
Well if you watched HSC Jjajkji and Taeja had no problems to win with it.
Well jjakji is about three times good as the terrans that played today. Very hard to include him when talking balance.
Jjakji better than Innovation? -_- And Heart is no sloutch either
On November 22 2013 20:36 Niko_Thien wrote: Are the WMs doing more friendly fire since the new patch or am I just a whiny terran? :D
Scarlett actually said that she didn't like the change since she felt she could not kill bio with friendly fire as well any more. Make of that what you will.
Actually mines seem better in big supply fights because it's really hard to detonate them now (and with the bio in support it's nearly impossible). In low supply fights however ...
Yes they are very good in big supply fights? What are you saying man. Ridiculous. We saw how "GOOD" they are in INnoVations bigger fights, they scratched a few units-_-
Well if you watched HSC Jjajkji and Taeja had no problems to win with it.
Sure you name two examples in which one is actually outmatching the competition (hyun) by a lot and the other one also a former code S champion. Should I continue to name examples of Terran players not succeeding with mines? Most Terrans did actually struggle in recent TvZ before the patch. Now mines are worse doesn't make the situation better, but keep being delusional.
On November 22 2013 20:36 Niko_Thien wrote: Are the WMs doing more friendly fire since the new patch or am I just a whiny terran? :D
Scarlett actually said that she didn't like the change since she felt she could not kill bio with friendly fire as well any more. Make of that what you will.
Actually mines seem better in big supply fights because it's really hard to detonate them now (and with the bio in support it's nearly impossible). In low supply fights however ...
Yes they are very good in big supply fights? What are you saying man. Ridiculous. We saw how "GOOD" they are in INnoVations bigger fights, they scratched a few units-_-
NarutO, no disrespect, I really value your opinion a lot, but are you really surprised at this? Both Zerg and Terran players complained a lot about the mine being stupid in the beta. It's either too strong or too weak. Simply a badly designed unit.
But this is not the topic for a LR thread. Why not open a thread about it? I'm sure you have a lot to say about this and people are interested in your opinion(Being honest here, no sarcasm included.)
Because people act like INnoVation suddenly playes badly which is not the case. He still playes brilliantly and shows amazing control, but the reward he gets is diminishing as the units he gets are simply not going to cut it.
Its like saying Jacky Chan is fighting poorly when he is up against the russian tank forces-_-
On November 22 2013 20:36 Niko_Thien wrote: Are the WMs doing more friendly fire since the new patch or am I just a whiny terran? :D
Scarlett actually said that she didn't like the change since she felt she could not kill bio with friendly fire as well any more. Make of that what you will.
Actually mines seem better in big supply fights because it's really hard to detonate them now (and with the bio in support it's nearly impossible). In low supply fights however ...
Yes they are very good in big supply fights? What are you saying man. Ridiculous. We saw how "GOOD" they are in INnoVations bigger fights, they scratched a few units-_-
Well if you watched HSC Jjajkji and Taeja had no problems to win with it.
Well jjakji is about three times good as the terrans that played today. Very hard to include him when talking balance.
Jjakji better than Innovation? -_- And Heart is no sloutch either
By far, jjakji shows sick plays like no other player.
On November 22 2013 20:36 Niko_Thien wrote: Are the WMs doing more friendly fire since the new patch or am I just a whiny terran? :D
Scarlett actually said that she didn't like the change since she felt she could not kill bio with friendly fire as well any more. Make of that what you will.
Actually mines seem better in big supply fights because it's really hard to detonate them now (and with the bio in support it's nearly impossible). In low supply fights however ...
how has detonating them become harder? They are just worse. They are still costefficient against MLB, but biomine all game long may not stand up to Zerg anymore and transitions or other styles don't look viable.
They were equal in costs against muta ling bane against a good player before the patch and now they get flat out overrun. If you don't see that yourself, I cannot help you realize it-_-
On November 22 2013 20:36 Niko_Thien wrote: Are the WMs doing more friendly fire since the new patch or am I just a whiny terran? :D
Scarlett actually said that she didn't like the change since she felt she could not kill bio with friendly fire as well any more. Make of that what you will.
Except Mines are supposed to deal more damage to Zerg than to Terran anyway. Mines doing less friendly fire is fairly insignificant since the Zerg army can comfortably slaughter Terran's troops on its own.
Actually widow mine friendly fire and banelings were the two quickest ways to clean up large chunks of terran bio. 3-3 marines will rip apart lings and mutas without much of a hassle.
I did not really say anything about what stuff was supposed to do, but just what it actually did/does. Friendly fire mines were a fairly big part of a highly skilled zerg player's ZvT. It's a beneficial change for zerg to be sure, but zergs need to adapt to it also. It has turned the fights more into slugfests than the explosive super fast engagements we had pre-patch. It takes some getting used to.
On November 22 2013 20:36 Niko_Thien wrote: Are the WMs doing more friendly fire since the new patch or am I just a whiny terran? :D
Scarlett actually said that she didn't like the change since she felt she could not kill bio with friendly fire as well any more. Make of that what you will.
Except Mines are supposed to deal more damage to Zerg than to Terran anyway. Mines doing less friendly fire is fairly insignificant since the Zerg army can comfortably slaughter Terran's troops on its own.
Actually widow mine friendly fire and banelings were the two quickest ways to clean up large chunks of terran bio. 3-3 marines will rip apart lings and mutas without much of a hassle.
I did not really say anything about what stuff was supposed to do, but just what it actually did/does. Friendly fire mines were a fairly big part of a highly skilled zerg player's ZvT. It's a beneficial change for zerg to be sure, but zergs need to adapt to it also. It has turned the fights more into slugfests than the explosive super fast engagements we had pre-patch. It takes some getting used to.
Seems like Zerg players are doing quite okay adapting to Terran units being weaker They seem to do.. Exactly the same thing! Just that is is better O.o
Its like saying a Sprinter getting steroids need to adapt that he can runt 100 Meters a two seconds faster suddenly, lulz.
On November 22 2013 20:36 Niko_Thien wrote: Are the WMs doing more friendly fire since the new patch or am I just a whiny terran? :D
Scarlett actually said that she didn't like the change since she felt she could not kill bio with friendly fire as well any more. Make of that what you will.
Except Mines are supposed to deal more damage to Zerg than to Terran anyway. Mines doing less friendly fire is fairly insignificant since the Zerg army can comfortably slaughter Terran's troops on its own.
Actually widow mine friendly fire and banelings were the two quickest ways to clean up large chunks of terran bio. 3-3 marines will rip apart lings and mutas without much of a hassle.
I did not really say anything about what stuff was supposed to do, but just what it actually did/does. Friendly fire mines were a fairly big part of a highly skilled zerg player's ZvT. It's a beneficial change for zerg to be sure, but zergs need to adapt to it also. It has turned the fights more into slugfests than the explosive super fast engagements we had pre-patch. It takes some getting used to.
Seems like Zerg players are doing quite okay adapting to Terran units being weaker They seem to do.. Exactly the same thing! Just that is is better O.o
Its like saying a Sprinter getting steroids need to adapt that he can runt 100 Meters a two seconds faster suddenly, lulz.
But that's not the case though. It looks like they are doing the same thing because they are playing the same style with the same units, but the dynamics of the engagements have changed, and if you look closely at replays you can see numerous small changes in how both terran and zerg move and control their units now that the mine is less scary for both parties.
It may not be very obvious, but it's there. We need an all zerg Meta episode for this, get Ret, Scarlett, TLO and Jaedong on there. JD doesn't need to say anything, just stare into the camera to scare the trolls away.
On November 22 2013 20:36 Niko_Thien wrote: Are the WMs doing more friendly fire since the new patch or am I just a whiny terran? :D
Scarlett actually said that she didn't like the change since she felt she could not kill bio with friendly fire as well any more. Make of that what you will.
Actually mines seem better in big supply fights because it's really hard to detonate them now (and with the bio in support it's nearly impossible). In low supply fights however ...
how has detonating them become harder? They are just worse. They are still costefficient against MLB, but biomine all game long may not stand up to Zerg anymore and transitions or other styles don't look viable.
They were equal in costs against muta ling bane against a good player before the patch and now they get flat out overrun. If you don't see that yourself, I cannot help you realize it-_-
How in the world is a mine not costefficient when it oneshots a mutalisk? Or when it kills 4+ ling/bling? All of that without the guarantee that the mine dies afterwards, so it might get another shot off, eat baneling hits or at least tank some damage, while it has already killed more than it cost.
That is costefficient. It just may not be enough if mines are costefficient when all your stuff gets run over, your timings don't work and you have to play 1,2,3 bases down all game because of mutas running rampant.
If you don't understand that costefficiency =/= winning, then I cannot help you realize it.
On November 22 2013 20:36 Niko_Thien wrote: Are the WMs doing more friendly fire since the new patch or am I just a whiny terran? :D
Scarlett actually said that she didn't like the change since she felt she could not kill bio with friendly fire as well any more. Make of that what you will.
Actually mines seem better in big supply fights because it's really hard to detonate them now (and with the bio in support it's nearly impossible). In low supply fights however ...
how has detonating them become harder? They are just worse. They are still costefficient against MLB, but biomine all game long may not stand up to Zerg anymore and transitions or other styles don't look viable.
They were equal in costs against muta ling bane against a good player before the patch and now they get flat out overrun. If you don't see that yourself, I cannot help you realize it-_-
How in the world is a mine not costefficient when it oneshots a mutalisk? Or when it kills 4+ ling/bling? All of that without the guarantee that the mine dies afterwards, so it might get another shot off, eat baneling hits or at least tank some damage, while it has already killed more than it cost.
That is costefficient. It just may not be enough if mines are costefficient when all your stuff gets run over, your timings don't work and you have to play 1,2,3 bases down all game because of mutas running rampant.
If you don't understand that costefficiency =/= winning, then I cannot help you realize it.
A mine is not costefficient when it oneshots a mutalisk if it kills some marines as well!
On November 22 2013 20:36 Niko_Thien wrote: Are the WMs doing more friendly fire since the new patch or am I just a whiny terran? :D
Scarlett actually said that she didn't like the change since she felt she could not kill bio with friendly fire as well any more. Make of that what you will.
Actually mines seem better in big supply fights because it's really hard to detonate them now (and with the bio in support it's nearly impossible). In low supply fights however ...
how has detonating them become harder? They are just worse. They are still costefficient against MLB, but biomine all game long may not stand up to Zerg anymore and transitions or other styles don't look viable.
They were equal in costs against muta ling bane against a good player before the patch and now they get flat out overrun. If you don't see that yourself, I cannot help you realize it-_-
How in the world is a mine not costefficient when it oneshots a mutalisk? Or when it kills 4+ ling/bling? All of that without the guarantee that the mine dies afterwards, so it might get another shot off, eat baneling hits or at least tank some damage, while it has already killed more than it cost.
That is costefficient. It just may not be enough if mines are costefficient when all your stuff gets run over, your timings don't work and you have to play 1,2,3 bases down all game because of mutas running rampant.
If you don't understand that costefficiency =/= winning, then I cannot help you realize it.
A mine is not costefficient when it oneshots a mutalisk if it kills some marines as well!
In that case you should tell your marines to stop trying to ride the mutalisks. I know it looks fun but you have to be this tall to go on the ride.
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