EPT[IEM] World Championship Day 2 - Page 69
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TheFish7
United States2824 Posts
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Account252508
3454 Posts
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StarVe
Germany13591 Posts
On March 07 2013 03:18 monkybone wrote: But lucifron and slivko had the same results in terms of wins and losses, which was better than that of the others. I'm just saying this is heavy ammunition for the conspiracy, although it may very well be a coincidence/balance issue. It's not a coincidence. The players with bad results are the ones who were really focusing on WoL because of this IEM and kind of got screwed when they decided to switch to HotS. Ret for example has been playing HotS for maybe four or five months now while the others have played for two weeks. This is neither surprising nor a coincidence. And XlorD just isn't there yet. | ||
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Zzoram
Canada7115 Posts
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StarVe
Germany13591 Posts
On March 07 2013 03:41 Zzoram wrote: I hope Snute isn't a one-hit wonder. Ever since his one tournament win he's been bombing out of everything hard. I just showed you how he didn't do that. http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewpost.php?post_id=17954775 | ||
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Nebuchad
Switzerland11903 Posts
If the patch did anything, it increased their personal potential, made them look better than they should have looked. But that shouldn't in any way imply that the players were bad at the start. I mean, they put as much time in the game as anyone else. If we assume that terran or protoss is OP right now in HotS, it doesn't mean that the players who will win would have been bad in a balanced game. I play the bad zergs regularly on the ladder, trust me, they're still as bad as they were (and as I am). It's a shortcut a lot of people make and it's an annoying one. | ||
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Schelim
Austria11528 Posts
and when a P or T comes along, you may still beat them because of the zerg factor. | ||
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Zzoram
Canada7115 Posts
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gingerfluffmuff
Austria4570 Posts
On March 07 2013 03:54 Zzoram wrote: Violet proving that Zerg isn't as weak in HotS as people think. That would require that his opponents are at the same skill level. | ||
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Bagration
United States18282 Posts
On March 07 2013 03:18 _SpiRaL_ wrote: Why are exclusively euro players 'patchzergs' and everyone else eg Koreans and north Americans immune? Why is ret an example of a skilled zerg better than 'patchzergs' despite them being better than him including in zvz for quite a long while now? The whole patchzerg thing needs to die and become bannable. Not one of these patchzergs has bad zvz which is a requirement of patchzerg status if it had any logic. Of course it has none. Because there aren't many NA zergs that are good enough to compete at the highest levels, with the exception of Scarlett. There were many solid Zerg players that emerged in the foreign scene, primarily in Europe, and some were even able to upset Koreans. "Patchzerg" became an epithet, an insult, because people felt that these rising foreign Zergs (a vast majority from EU) were not beating the Koreans due to skill, but to balance issues. This is also due to the belief that Koreans are just better than foreigners, and for a foreigner to beat a Korean, it had to be factors other than skill which led to the win. As a result, the reason why many EU zergs are labelled "patchzergs" while NA zergs are less likely to be called such a term is simply because the EU zergs have been more successful. | ||
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Ryps
Romania2740 Posts
On March 07 2013 03:57 gingerfluffmuff wrote: That would require that his opponents are at the same skill level. No dude Snute and Xlord proved that zerg is weak race, everyone has the same amount of skill. | ||
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_SpiRaL_
Afghanistan1636 Posts
On March 07 2013 03:49 Schelim wrote: you could still be a 'patchzerg' if your best matchup is ZvZ. since zerg was winning everything (i am exaggarating), you'd hardly ever face a P or T since they'd lose to other zergs. therefore, you get to play a lot of ZvZ, which happens to be your best matchup, so you just keep winning. and when a P or T comes along, you may still beat them because of the zerg factor. This would simply emphasise what I mean. 'Patchzerg's would be getting killed to both non patchzergs and the few zvz specialists from before patch so the average 'patchzerg' would have zvz as by far weakest match up. I dont think we see this. | ||
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OKMarius
Norway469 Posts
On March 07 2013 03:41 Zzoram wrote: I hope Snute isn't a one-hit wonder. Ever since his one tournament win he's been bombing out of everything hard. What are you talking about? He's won 3 monthly go4wc3's in a row, a zotac cup final 3-1 vs Hyun, finished second in that aAa invitational vs Vortix 3-4 in the finals, and has won 3 Norwegian lans recently with decent prizemoney. Yeah I'm a fanboy, but get your facts straight.  | ||
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Snusmumriken
Sweden1717 Posts
On March 07 2013 04:41 _SpiRaL_ wrote: This would simply emphasise what I mean. 'Patchzerg's would be getting killed to both non patchzergs and the few zvz specialists from before patch so the average 'patchzerg' would have zvz as by far weakest match up. I dont think we see this. On the contrary, post patch any zerg who was good at zvz was basically going to do well. That was NOT the case prior to the patch. How is that not obvious? | ||
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_SpiRaL_
Afghanistan1636 Posts
On March 07 2013 04:11 Bagration wrote: Because there aren't many NA zergs that are good enough to compete at the highest levels, with the exception of Scarlett. There were many solid Zerg players that emerged in the foreign scene, primarily in Europe, and some were even able to upset Koreans. "Patchzerg" became an epithet, an insult, because people felt that these rising foreign Zergs (a vast majority from EU) were not beating the Koreans due to skill, but to balance issues. This is also due to the belief that Koreans are just better than foreigners, and for a foreigner to beat a Korean, it had to be factors other than skill which led to the win. As a result, the reason why many EU zergs are labelled "patchzergs" while NA zergs are less likely to be called such a term is simply because the EU zergs have been more successful. So scarlett is a patchzerg? I have never seen her called this despite there being no difference other than she is not European. | ||
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Schelim
Austria11528 Posts
On March 07 2013 04:41 _SpiRaL_ wrote: This would simply emphasise what I mean. 'Patchzerg's would be getting killed to both non patchzergs and the few zvz specialists from before patch so the average 'patchzerg' would have zvz as by far weakest match up. I dont think we see this. for some reason you seem to arguing from the assumption that people are/were saying 'patchzergs' don't have ANY skill whatsoever, which is obviously bullshit. the point is that a slightly lesser skilled player might be able to beat slightly more skilled players with relative consistency (the last part being the important one, because otherwise this happens all the time in sc2). the players that are often referred to as 'patchzergs' weren't noobies before the patch, they just weren't quite as successful as they became after the patch. | ||
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Nebuchad
Switzerland11903 Posts
On March 07 2013 04:46 _SpiRaL_ wrote: So scarlett is a patchzerg? I have never seen her called this despite there being no difference other than she is not European. I have seen her called this. I'm pretty sure you should have too. But perhaps people were too busy calling her male to call her bad (yeah I don't have much faith in reddit) | ||
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_SpiRaL_
Afghanistan1636 Posts
On the contrary, post patch any zerg who was good at zvz was basically going to do well. That was NOT the case prior to the patch. How is that not obvious? How is that relevant? | ||
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Snusmumriken
Sweden1717 Posts
its relevant because you claimed that a patchzerg should lose to a non-patchzerg. I showed you how the only thing needed in order to become succesful post patch was great ZvZ, as the other matchups (particularly tvz) would likely fall in your favour anyways as long as you were halfway decent. However I agree that the patchzerg term is overused. | ||
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StarVe
Germany13591 Posts
On March 07 2013 04:46 _SpiRaL_ wrote: So scarlett is a patchzerg? I have never seen her called this despite there being no difference other than she is not European. Sure people did, you should have been there during this game! Again, On March 07 2013 01:57 StarVe wrote: Tomorrow, Dream will stomp everyone. If anyone wants to make the Day 3 LR, feel free to do so, I don't really want to. | ||
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