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Both streams are free in SD, you can figure it out ~_~ |
On November 04 2012 14:22 Wombat_NI wrote:Show nested quote +On November 04 2012 14:20 JJH777 wrote:On November 04 2012 14:16 Wombat_NI wrote:On November 04 2012 14:11 JJH777 wrote:
Who cares how they win? If they win 50% of their games with a lineup that's about equal it is balanced. It might be balanced in a dumb way (which I agree that the way it's balanced right now is very screwed up) but it is balanced. And when Zerg figure out timings to stop Protoss' go-to 2 base timing where will the matchup be? I don't think it will be figured out. If there was actually a hard counter build to it it would be figured out by now. It just always comes down to the Protoss execution mainly. Protoss also still win a decent amount of games with different 2 base timings and various pre-broodlord attacks. The matchup will also change a lot in HotS. I doubt blizzard is going to patch WoL anymore. The 1/1/1 was figured out primarily with counter-intuitive logic, i.e expanding earlier to give a big enough economy to beat down the Terran push. The immortal range buff helped a lot in terms of executing this gameplan, but in my view it was a shift in trends to safe 1-gate expands that really helped to beat that build.
The maps and spawn position change also help. Rush distance is a lot longer now and it makes a huge difference for things like the 1-1-1. Also, almost all naturals have small ramps now which wasn't the case when 1-1-1 was most popular.
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The bunker was a signature move though and good mix up. Like Flash said, he knew Nani would go fast expo and that is old school. So is bunker rushing with a lot of scvs.
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Northern Ireland26714 Posts
On November 04 2012 14:29 fcb10 wrote:Show nested quote +On November 04 2012 14:23 Wombat_NI wrote:On November 04 2012 14:21 Havik_ wrote:On November 04 2012 14:18 Iodem wrote:
So game 3 on Tal`Darim. Hero is ahead basically the entire game. Ahead in supply, ahead in bases. Hero gets his army with mothership, scarlet gets blord infestor. Scarlet is basically mined out and hero is on 2 mining bases.
Scarlet decides to engage on hero's side and manages to neural the mothership which had just barely skirted ahead of where it should have been (it was trying to vortex the army).
She instantly vortexes his army, kills most of it and then kills his two mining bases. Hero is left with a rag tag army with a mothership and scarlet has a bunch of broolord infestor. They base race and eliminate all of the buildings....except for 3 spine crawlers which scarlet sticks in the middle of her army and then marches around the map with (very slowly).
Hero realizes he his only chance to win is to land a vortex on the blord infestor and then blink in with his 6-8 stalkers and try to pick off the spines. He tries this a few times but a) fucks it up b) lol too much blordinfestor.
He spends the next 15-20 minutes walking around the map doing nothing hiding pylons and at one point types "good balance" (grack was watching and started to giggle).
Not my account, but that of someone who was watching it live. Oh man. How the fuck was this not casted? That's too epic. LR thread would have been ruined by us Protoss, probably wise not to cast it  Poor HerO, why does this ALWAYS happen to him? vs Leenock last GSL, vs Curious and vs SoulKey this GSL... i feel for the guy.
Because he still tries to play for a lategame. HerO's long been known for NOT 2 basing, and playing for the stalemate where he can get his warp prisms out and cause havoc.
He's not gotten any worse at playing this style, which is the sexiest PvZ style of all, but his opponents have gotten better at dealing with it. When he did 2 base this GSL season he kind of botched it, too but he's got some sick chops, hope to see him show his top form again in the matchup.
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While I certainly wish there was more content, a lot of these games have been pretty epic, I must say.
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On November 04 2012 14:29 fcb10 wrote:Show nested quote +On November 04 2012 14:23 Wombat_NI wrote:On November 04 2012 14:21 Havik_ wrote:On November 04 2012 14:18 Iodem wrote:
So game 3 on Tal`Darim. Hero is ahead basically the entire game. Ahead in supply, ahead in bases. Hero gets his army with mothership, scarlet gets blord infestor. Scarlet is basically mined out and hero is on 2 mining bases.
Scarlet decides to engage on hero's side and manages to neural the mothership which had just barely skirted ahead of where it should have been (it was trying to vortex the army).
She instantly vortexes his army, kills most of it and then kills his two mining bases. Hero is left with a rag tag army with a mothership and scarlet has a bunch of broolord infestor. They base race and eliminate all of the buildings....except for 3 spine crawlers which scarlet sticks in the middle of her army and then marches around the map with (very slowly).
Hero realizes he his only chance to win is to land a vortex on the blord infestor and then blink in with his 6-8 stalkers and try to pick off the spines. He tries this a few times but a) fucks it up b) lol too much blordinfestor.
He spends the next 15-20 minutes walking around the map doing nothing hiding pylons and at one point types "good balance" (grack was watching and started to giggle).
Not my account, but that of someone who was watching it live. Oh man. How the fuck was this not casted? That's too epic. LR thread would have been ruined by us Protoss, probably wise not to cast it Poor HerO, why does this ALWAYS happen to him? vs Leenock last GSL, vs Curious and vs SoulKey this GSL... i feel for the guy.
Because he has no soul and can't execute the wonwonwon properly.
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Northern Ireland26714 Posts
On November 04 2012 14:31 vthree wrote:Show nested quote +On November 04 2012 14:29 fcb10 wrote:On November 04 2012 14:23 Wombat_NI wrote:On November 04 2012 14:21 Havik_ wrote:On November 04 2012 14:18 Iodem wrote:
So game 3 on Tal`Darim. Hero is ahead basically the entire game. Ahead in supply, ahead in bases. Hero gets his army with mothership, scarlet gets blord infestor. Scarlet is basically mined out and hero is on 2 mining bases.
Scarlet decides to engage on hero's side and manages to neural the mothership which had just barely skirted ahead of where it should have been (it was trying to vortex the army).
She instantly vortexes his army, kills most of it and then kills his two mining bases. Hero is left with a rag tag army with a mothership and scarlet has a bunch of broolord infestor. They base race and eliminate all of the buildings....except for 3 spine crawlers which scarlet sticks in the middle of her army and then marches around the map with (very slowly).
Hero realizes he his only chance to win is to land a vortex on the blord infestor and then blink in with his 6-8 stalkers and try to pick off the spines. He tries this a few times but a) fucks it up b) lol too much blordinfestor.
He spends the next 15-20 minutes walking around the map doing nothing hiding pylons and at one point types "good balance" (grack was watching and started to giggle).
Not my account, but that of someone who was watching it live. Oh man. How the fuck was this not casted? That's too epic. LR thread would have been ruined by us Protoss, probably wise not to cast it Poor HerO, why does this ALWAYS happen to him? vs Leenock last GSL, vs Curious and vs SoulKey this GSL... i feel for the guy. Because he has no soul and can't execute the wonwonwon properly.
Ah, so he's ginger and thus has no soul? That makes a lot of sense now, his dyed blonde locks merely disguise this?
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On November 04 2012 14:09 Havik_ wrote:Show nested quote +On November 04 2012 14:06 JJH777 wrote:
TL admins whining about Protoss rofl. Guess what guys if you add up all the PvZ at this tournament between the highest level of players (like championship bracket + group play) it's actually almost perfectly 50-50. It is 36-37. Soooooooo Zerg favored. I'd also call the zerg lineup at this event stronger than the Protoss lineup since you don't have like parting/seed/creator etc so if anything it should be slightly zerg favored. I'd bet none of those Protoss wins came after Brood Lords we're out.
Did you watch the first set of Leenock versus Oz? That's just one example. There have been plenty of top zergs who didn't opt for Brood Lords to finish anyway.
I thought the Korean Hope and Oz series at first was highly entertaining because it was so unorthodox.
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On November 04 2012 14:29 JJH777 wrote:
Don't count Flash out vs Life. He might actually go mech.
does he go Mech? I only remember him going bio vs Z. That's his worst matchup too so...
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Northern Ireland26714 Posts
On November 04 2012 14:35 StarStruck wrote:Show nested quote +On November 04 2012 14:09 Havik_ wrote:On November 04 2012 14:06 JJH777 wrote:
TL admins whining about Protoss rofl. Guess what guys if you add up all the PvZ at this tournament between the highest level of players (like championship bracket + group play) it's actually almost perfectly 50-50. It is 36-37. Soooooooo Zerg favored. I'd also call the zerg lineup at this event stronger than the Protoss lineup since you don't have like parting/seed/creator etc so if anything it should be slightly zerg favored. I'd bet none of those Protoss wins came after Brood Lords we're out. Did you watch the first set of Leenock versus Oz? That's just one example. There have been plenty of top zergs who didn't opt for Brood Lords to finish anyway. I thought the Korean Hope and Oz series at first was highly entertaining because it was so unorthodox.
There was also a lot less bitching about that series, two top-level players going mano-a-mano, sadly my man didn't come out on top but I really did enjoy that series.
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Flash vs Life. As much as I want to see Flash win, his TvZ is horrible. Here is hoping though.
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so why did ret get DQd a game, anyone know?TY in advance
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Northern Ireland26714 Posts
On November 04 2012 14:40 seansye wrote:
Flash vs Life. As much as I want to see Flash win, his TvZ is horrible. Here is hoping though.
Is it really that horrible? People were saying the same about his TvP, saying he had sick macro but no real tactical astuteness and he's fixed that pretty quickly. I'd still have Life favoured, but Flash is learning so quickly that I can see him making a good fight of it
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On November 04 2012 14:40 Fyodor wrote:Show nested quote +On November 04 2012 14:29 JJH777 wrote:
Don't count Flash out vs Life. He might actually go mech. does he go Mech? I only remember him going bio vs Z. That's his worst matchup too so...
He went mech for one game against Effort in their series, on Daybreak, and won, but it was very close. I don't remember if he went mech in any other games during MvP.
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On November 04 2012 14:43 Wombat_NI wrote:Show nested quote +On November 04 2012 14:40 seansye wrote:
Flash vs Life. As much as I want to see Flash win, his TvZ is horrible. Here is hoping though. Is it really that horrible? People were saying the same about his TvP, saying he had sick macro but no real tactical astuteness and he's fixed that pretty quickly. I'd still have Life favoured, but Flash is learning so quickly that I can see him making a good fight of it
Life is too good.
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On November 04 2012 14:43 Wombat_NI wrote:Show nested quote +On November 04 2012 14:40 seansye wrote:
Flash vs Life. As much as I want to see Flash win, his TvZ is horrible. Here is hoping though. Is it really that horrible? People were saying the same about his TvP, saying he had sick macro but no real tactical astuteness and he's fixed that pretty quickly. I'd still have Life favoured, but Flash is learning so quickly that I can see him making a good fight of it
he beat like naniwa who isn't even Code S champion material. it looked close because they were not as mechanically good or aware. life is another level
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Northern Ireland26714 Posts
On November 04 2012 14:44 GreyKnight wrote:Show nested quote +On November 04 2012 14:43 Wombat_NI wrote:On November 04 2012 14:40 seansye wrote:
Flash vs Life. As much as I want to see Flash win, his TvZ is horrible. Here is hoping though. Is it really that horrible? People were saying the same about his TvP, saying he had sick macro but no real tactical astuteness and he's fixed that pretty quickly. I'd still have Life favoured, but Flash is learning so quickly that I can see him making a good fight of it he beat like naniwa who isn't even Code S champion material. it looked close because they were not as mechanically good or aware. life is another level
Naniwa is a fearsome PvT player, vs any calibre of player I think you're doing him a disservice here, and indeed Flash for coming out on top
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On November 04 2012 14:46 Wombat_NI wrote:Show nested quote +On November 04 2012 14:44 GreyKnight wrote:On November 04 2012 14:43 Wombat_NI wrote:On November 04 2012 14:40 seansye wrote:
Flash vs Life. As much as I want to see Flash win, his TvZ is horrible. Here is hoping though. Is it really that horrible? People were saying the same about his TvP, saying he had sick macro but no real tactical astuteness and he's fixed that pretty quickly. I'd still have Life favoured, but Flash is learning so quickly that I can see him making a good fight of it he beat like naniwa who isn't even Code S champion material. it looked close because they were not as mechanically good or aware. life is another level Naniwa is a fearsome PvT player, vs any calibre of player I think you're doing him a disservice here, and indeed Flash for coming out on top
no, i'm not doing anyone a disservice. the game was good because they are close in skill not because they are immeasurably better than everyone
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On November 04 2012 14:44 GreyKnight wrote:Show nested quote +On November 04 2012 14:43 Wombat_NI wrote:On November 04 2012 14:40 seansye wrote:
Flash vs Life. As much as I want to see Flash win, his TvZ is horrible. Here is hoping though. Is it really that horrible? People were saying the same about his TvP, saying he had sick macro but no real tactical astuteness and he's fixed that pretty quickly. I'd still have Life favoured, but Flash is learning so quickly that I can see him making a good fight of it he beat like naniwa who isn't even Code S champion material. it looked close because they were not as mechanically good or aware. life is another level
I always thought his TvP was his best matchup. He beat Seed in the Up & Downs and he's really good at that two base timing push. He also had all toss in his OSL group which he 3-0'd and he's beaten MC a couple times too so I always assumed his TvP was good.
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Yea life is really good at ZvT. I wonder if Flash has studied the GSL finals games. If he has, I have a feeling he'll be ready and it will be a good match. Otherwise Life might come out on top pretty easily.
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Northern Ireland26714 Posts
On November 04 2012 14:54 ketomai wrote:
Yea life is really good at ZvT. I wonder if Flash has studied the GSL finals games. If he has, I have a feeling he'll be ready and it will be a good match. Otherwise Life might come out on top pretty easily.
I'm not so sure Life can be studied and conquered, he's just really good. Good micro, good gamesense, good decision making on techswitching and pretty impeccable injects. Going to be tough for anyone to take him down
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EPT
