On March 01 2012 14:03 Falconblade wrote:
Polt played against two Protoss with below 40% w/r in PvT, and Lucky who has a sub 45% w/r against Terran. And he beat a good foreigner in Stephano.

None of that makes it the toughest bracket in the world for Polt to come out. He also lost to BlinG. (Btw, Bling has a 2-0 record against Polt, does that make him better than Polt as your Polt > Hero for their matchup?)

He had a good showing, and I was rooting for him against Stephano.

Doesn't mean that it propels him to top 5 status when looking at Alive who took down MMA and made it to ro4. Or MMA who made it to ro8 GSL. Or Gumiho who made it to ro4 defeating Puzzle, Mvp (who btw has beaten Polt in their last encounter and holds a winning record against him, and has a generally high TvT). Or Mvp, despite his slumping, who has still done pretty well considering things. Or GanZi who beat Mvp and MC, both of them good against Terran and Code S players. Or Supernova who took 2nd at Iem to a rampaging viOlet, or and got to ro16 over Leenock, Fin and beating MC to top his group. And MKP, who I don't even need to bother defending.

You say Gumiho needs to prove himself, I say Polt could do the same. When was the last time he prevailed over the cream of crop? The super tournament way back? What about now? All of those aforementioned have a clear claim to being better than Polt right now. And their results, their status in Code S... Polt, despite your fanboy love for him, is simply not top 5.

Especially since you keep harping on about GSL this, GSL that, as being the true test of skill. Guess what, if you're doing that, Polt definitely isn't top 5. Stop going back on your argument to try and find loopholes to get Polt in there. I figured bolding this might help you out.

Most of Hero's losses were before September. You're straight-out lying about Bling.

Alive beat a sick MMA.

Supernova's performance at IEM was supremely disappointing and actually reflects negatively on his skill. He was also fortunate to beat MC.

Lying where? And Alive showed that he was damn good. Sick MMA or not.

Hero's TvP is touch and go. And Bling did beat Polt 2-0 in the group stages, Polt played Hero who has have low rates against T. I thought he played JYP (the other protoss I meant to point out but I was wrong there, its been a ton of games and I mixed up who played Taeja and who played JYP since I missed that round of games). But accusing me of lying in regards to Bling, is unfounded? I take rather offense to that allegation that I am lying. Check the stats, Bling has a 2-0 record against Polt overall, having only played him once. This was meant to highlight the previous bloke's love of comparing people on the matchup between them as opposed to overall skill. The only thing I claimed was that Bling beat Polt, and that is true is it not?

Supernova may have been disappointing at IEM but still got 2nd despite it, but why should you justify fortunate or not? Shit happens, and end of the day, Supernova beat him.

Polt's road was Phoenix, TLO, Bling, Taeja, Hero, Lucky, and Stephano. There are only two protosses there, Hero and Bling. Bling is known as one of the better PvT players in Europe and his PvT record is above 60% (he did beat Polt, but that was not what I was accusing you about). Hero's KR PvT record since July 2011 in 7-4; I don't know why you bother to include his losses from a year ago to measure the state of his PvT now.

Everyone knows JYP is crap at PvT. He lost to Diestar for God's sake.

It means that Alive played well enough to beat a sick MMA, not necessarily that Alive played brilliantly. He played more aggressive than what we are used to seeing from him, but it's nonsense to say he is a top-level Terran because he advanced to RoX in a single tournament. You want to use his other recent results and how those played out to make a qualitative statement.

Supernova's gameplay at IEM was far below his usual standard, but he managed to get 2nd because the field at San Paulo was exceptionally weak. So the placing does not reflect his skill at the event at all. If you only saw Supernova play at IEM you would think he was much worse than the games he showed in the Ro32.

Shit happens like a fakeout based on intimate knowledge of MC's thought processes. It certainly showed when Supernova got absolutely smoked in the Ro16 by protosses he didn't know. The Ro16 showed that Supernova's TvP was dependent on early mindgames and crumbled when it was forced into a macro game.

Derity

Germany2952 Posts

March 01 2012 05:57 GMT

#445

btw, stop any statistics with less than at least 50 games. it's already annoying enough to see map stats with less than 20 plays in percentages.

JiYan

United States3668 Posts

March 01 2012 06:24 GMT

#446

great play from ret! i wish we got to see more of him though

tree.hugger

Philadelphia, PA10406 Posts

March 01 2012 06:26 GMT

#447

This is a silly and long argument. Both HerO and Polt are elite players. Both top ten of their races. For my money, Polt is outside the top five terrans and HerO is in the top five protosses, but given how much deeper T is than P, Polt may still be better. He's certainly still a better performer under pressure.

Results only get you so far, use your eyes whenever you can and make judgements like that. Both are world class players.

GoSuChicken

Germany1726 Posts

March 01 2012 06:35 GMT

#448

Hehe, who said hero cant take out polt? :D

michielbrands

Netherlands1146 Posts

March 01 2012 06:36 GMT

#449

HerOoOoOo!!

Igaryu85

Germany195 Posts

March 01 2012 06:41 GMT

#450

On March 01 2012 01:48 ydeer1993 wrote:
5-2 for TSL, Sorry but dont think TL will take this, but feel free to name and shame me if they do :D

Named and shamed ;-)

Alethios

New Zealand2765 Posts

March 01 2012 06:45 GMT

#451

Yay. Nice results to come back home to after a long day.

Liquid ` Fighting!

chambertin

United States1704 Posts

March 01 2012 06:48 GMT

#452

On March 01 2012 15:26 tree.hugger wrote:
This is a silly and long argument. Both HerO and Polt are elite players. Both top ten of their races. For my money, Polt is outside the top five terrans and HerO is in the top five protosses, but given how much deeper T is than P, Polt may still be better. He's certainly still a better performer under pressure.

Results only get you so far, use your eyes whenever you can and make judgements like that. Both are world class players.

Layin' down the truth...

Farone

Netherlands1219 Posts

March 01 2012 06:59 GMT

#453

nice TL, glad to see Ret and HerO winning games!

Liquid`Jinro

Sweden33719 Posts

March 01 2012 07:15 GMT

#454

Good post. For a while I thought Polt was falling off after his big win, but he's looking really scary again lately.

Unclear if Polt is top 5 terran, but as you say its only because the terran line is so insanely deep now. I do think Polt MIGHT have a stylistic weakness where he struggles a little vs the absolute, absolute top tier but I dont really have anything to back that up, it's just an impression I get from how he plays.