When: Thursday, Feb 16 1:00am GMT (GMT+00:00) (we will also have a European re-broadcast as usual at Thursday, Feb 16 5:30pm GMT (GMT+00:00))
Format
This double-elimination tournament features 16 teams from around the world and is an All-Kill team format. This match is being played for Winners Round 2. The first team to defeat everyone on the opposing team's roster (5 wins, or a best of 9), will move on in the Winners Bracket, while the loser will drop down into the Losers Bracket. Keep in mind that this has a $20,000 prize pool, and only six teams will make it to the money!
Team SCV Life Polt Ultimate RevivaL Symbol HyuN (MyWay) RagnaroK Shine Cyrano Dream
StarTale RainBOw Sound Bomber Virus Hack aphrodite Troumen MisS July Curious SUPERSTAR FruitDealer KingKong Squirtle Ace Trickster Parting Tiger Ssoja
The First Game for this match of IPL Team Arena Challenge 2 is on Thursday, Feb 16 1:00am GMT (GMT+00:00) (we will also have a European re-broadcast as usual at Thursday, Feb 16 5:30pm GMT (GMT+00:00))
When I think of TSL, I immediately hear that protoss saying "We require more players". TSL used to be such a strong team, but then they lose Rain, Puma, JYP, Clide, Killer, and now aLive. Their ex-BW player, Hyun, has been severely underperforming to expectations, and even Polt is not the powerful player that he was back in the summer of 2011. Tough times ahead for TSL.
TSL could really use the win but between Parting's recent performance and Bomber's GSTL all kill I don't see them losing. My only hope is that Startale takes the opportunity to give some of its lesser known players some play time.
Just to interject before tonight's cast: we're doing a giveaway right now on Facebook for 10 sets of iHearteSports SC2 team stickets, as well as 5 $25 Riot Point cards for League of Legends!
On February 16 2012 07:33 soLremarK wrote: There is a 0% chance of ST losing this.
Hahahahahahahahahaha... wanna bet?
You give me 100 bucks if ST loses, I'll give you 1 if they win. It's actually a generous bet considering your predictions
edit: I am 100% serious here
I know that this is horrible internet logic but . . . .
TSL beat Reign 5-3. Zenex went on to beat Reign 5-0. Not to mention their very quick exit out of the GSTL - TSL is not looking very good. In fact I would favor foriegn teams to beat them. I agree with you that they have a chance, but it's very slim.
Lol, so what you're saying is... they're kinda playing on the wrong map. >.> That's pretty funny. But hey if they're both cool with it let sleeping dogs lie.
Edit: I mean, an extra base on each side is a pretty huge deal.
Besides the fact that all the TSL players except Polt are average, another weakness for TSL is that they're too zerg heavy. At this point Ace has beaten 3 zergs, but here TSL is sending out yet another zerg because they don't really have a choice. If the GSL is any indication zergs at the top aren't doing so well right now so that only makes TSL's situation even worse.
Did you see that probe micro by Ace where he held position with the 2 probes at the choke of the gas/minerals while using the small ranged attack with the probes from behind so the lings just ran around stupid while taking damage? That was AWESOME!
Do the coaches not look at player statistics? Virus is far and away best vs toss, so why would you throw him against a zerg? Whereas symbol is the worst against zerg. Why not use curious who is really really good vs zerg? Or july who is decent against zerg?
Tsl's player choices leading up to this point were also quite terrible statistics-wise. Ace is worst against protoss and tsl didn't throw any toss at him (they don't have great toss, but in terms of stats, ace is terrible against toss, why not try it?)
On February 16 2012 11:48 boxman22 wrote: Do the coaches not look at player statistics? Virus is far and away best vs toss, so why would you throw him against a zerg? Whereas symbol is the worst against zerg. Why not use curious who is really really good vs zerg? Or july who is decent against zerg?
Tsl's player choices leading up to this point were also quite terrible statistics-wise. Ace is worst against protoss and tsl didn't throw any toss at him (they don't have great toss, but in terms of stats, ace is terrible against toss, why not try it?)
I agreed with what you said until you said July is decent at ZvZ. ZvZ is the bane of his existence. Having said that, I think curious was the right option to send out.
On February 16 2012 11:48 boxman22 wrote: Do the coaches not look at player statistics? Virus is far and away best vs toss, so why would you throw him against a zerg? Whereas symbol is the worst against zerg. Why not use curious who is really really good vs zerg? Or july who is decent against zerg?
Tsl's player choices leading up to this point were also quite terrible statistics-wise. Ace is worst against protoss and tsl didn't throw any toss at him (they don't have great toss, but in terms of stats, ace is terrible against toss, why not try it?)
It might depend on simply who is available from Startale. Either way, Startale is so far ahead right now that they can afford to send out anyone.
On February 16 2012 11:48 boxman22 wrote: Do the coaches not look at player statistics? Virus is far and away best vs toss, so why would you throw him against a zerg? Whereas symbol is the worst against zerg. Why not use curious who is really really good vs zerg? Or july who is decent against zerg?
Tsl's player choices leading up to this point were also quite terrible statistics-wise. Ace is worst against protoss and tsl didn't throw any toss at him (they don't have great toss, but in terms of stats, ace is terrible against toss, why not try it?)
ROFL? Coaches know their players better than we do. You can't judge a player simply based on match statistics. Maybe Virus is really good vs Zerg in practice? Maybe he's improved his TvZ greatly, but hasn't had a chance to showcase it? Official matches aren't everything. Or maybe Virus wanted to play, maybe the coach wanted Virus to try his luck against a rising Zerg player. A lot of things go into roster choices.
DAT FUNGLE! I normally don't get too excited about fungles but THAT on the marines was fantastic. Good for him for knowing the map (and fungle range) that well.
On February 16 2012 11:50 wattabeast wrote: I agreed with what you said until you said July is decent at ZvZ. ZvZ is the bane of his existence. Having said that, I think curious was the right option to send out.
Oops you're right... July has a 33% win rate v zerg in korea. Surprisingly internationally he has a 61% win rate and it's his 2nd highest.
On February 16 2012 11:48 boxman22 wrote: Do the coaches not look at player statistics? Virus is far and away best vs toss, so why would you throw him against a zerg? Whereas symbol is the worst against zerg. Why not use curious who is really really good vs zerg? Or july who is decent against zerg?
Tsl's player choices leading up to this point were also quite terrible statistics-wise. Ace is worst against protoss and tsl didn't throw any toss at him (they don't have great toss, but in terms of stats, ace is terrible against toss, why not try it?)
ROFL? Coaches know their players better than we do. You can't judge a player simply based on match statistics. Maybe Virus is really good vs Zerg in practice? Maybe he's improved his TvZ greatly, but hasn't had a chance to showcase it? Official matches aren't everything. Or maybe Virus wanted to play, maybe the coach wanted Virus to try his luck against a rising Zerg player. A lot of things go into roster choices.
Or he's losing and statistics would say that was the most likely outcome.
On February 16 2012 11:50 wattabeast wrote: I agreed with what you said until you said July is decent at ZvZ. ZvZ is the bane of his existence. Having said that, I think curious was the right option to send out.
Oops you're right... July has a 33% win rate v zerg in korea. Surprisingly internationally he has a 61% win rate and it's his 2nd highest.
On February 16 2012 12:11 brachester wrote: symbol is TSL's future
If trends continue, TSL does not really have a future. And Symbol is out.
If trends continue, TSL has a future as a star player producing machine.
I'm serious. Symbol is proving to be a good player, as shown in his games in the Iron Squid Qualifier. And Ragnorak, while he didn't show much today is actually pretty damn good in the ESV and he's another one of those 15 year old. Hell, Hyun still has a future ahead of him as well, I mean people were quick to throw Grubby under when Grubby was in the NASL. Hate them or love them, Lee is quite good at producing amazing players. Keeping those players is another matter though.
On February 16 2012 12:31 Waxangel wrote: the LR OPs for ipl tac are always terrible at being updated, god :/
what happened in the games?
Ace gets 4 kills, takes out Revival, Hyun, Polt, Ragnarok, and loses to Symbol and the all kill is averted. Symbol beats Virus, but loses to King Kong.
On February 16 2012 12:31 Waxangel wrote: the LR OPs for ipl tac are always terrible at being updated, god :/
what happened in the games?
Ace gets 4 kills, takes out Revival, Hyun, Polt, Ragnarok, and loses to Symbol and the all kill is averted. Symbol beats Virus, but loses to King Kong.
On February 16 2012 12:11 brachester wrote: symbol is TSL's future
If trends continue, TSL does not really have a future. And Symbol is out.
If trends continue, TSL has a future as a star player producing machine.
I'm serious. Symbol is proving to be a good player, as shown in his games in the Iron Squid Qualifier. And Ragnorak, while he didn't show much today is actually pretty damn good in the ESV and he's another one of those 15 year old. Hell, Hyun still has a future ahead of him as well, I mean people were quick to throw Grubby under when Grubby was in the NASL. Hate them or love them, Lee is quite good at producing amazing players. Keeping those players is another matter though.
That's the key. The turnover rate is just too damn high. They have lost so much of their roster, and more importantly, the players that they lost were their A-team players (Rain, Puma, Clide, JYP, Killer, aLive). It does not matter how well you can produce good players if they do not stay, the team still dies. Furthermore, they do have a bit of a problem with racial diversity, as too much of their roster is Zerg.
Problem is, the trend for TSL is not too good, with them falling out of the GSTL so early and losing so many of their GSL players. Furthermore, with all the recent drama, the team's brand has been dented a bit, and people are wondering why so many players are leaving the team. Symbol and Ragnorak may be up and coming players, but I worry about TSL because of their seeming inability to retain talent, and that is what is really hurting the team right now.
On February 16 2012 13:14 Angelbelow wrote: Wouldn't be too hard on Hyun, he switched over recently. I hope TSL is the right kind of environment for him to work on his skills.
Yes, the fact that he was able to qualify for Code A after I believe only 3 months of SC2 is very incredible. Of course, he is not dominating the scene, but he has only been playing for a few months. I am pretty sure he would stay with TSL, as he is an MBCGameHero player and has a long history with Coach Lee (this relationship was one of the major reason Hyun joined TSL).
On February 16 2012 13:32 Seeker wrote: ....... What is going on with Polt?
I would guess he has not completely recovered from his recent illness.
I'm fairly sure this series was played right in the middle of his illness. However, I think he's over it now; would be great to see him qualify for NASL in a few hours' time. He really deserves it (also deserves a new team, but that's aside...)
On February 16 2012 11:48 boxman22 wrote: Do the coaches not look at player statistics? Virus is far and away best vs toss, so why would you throw him against a zerg? Whereas symbol is the worst against zerg. Why not use curious who is really really good vs zerg?
Tsl's player choices leading up to this point were also quite terrible statistics-wise. Ace is worst against protoss and tsl didn't throw any toss at him (they don't have great toss, but in terms of stats, ace is terrible against toss, why not try it?)
ROFL? Coaches know their players better than we do. You can't judge a player simply based on match statistics. Maybe Virus is really good vs Zerg in practice? Maybe he's improved his TvZ greatly, but hasn't had a chance to showcase it? Official matches aren't everything. Or maybe Virus wanted to play, maybe the coach wanted Virus to try his luck against a rising Zerg player. A lot of things go into roster choices.
May I just say I got both right. Virus lost, the unknown zerg they played next won... stats win out in everything.
On February 16 2012 11:48 boxman22 wrote: Do the coaches not look at player statistics? Virus is far and away best vs toss, so why would you throw him against a zerg? Whereas symbol is the worst against zerg. Why not use curious who is really really good vs zerg?
Tsl's player choices leading up to this point were also quite terrible statistics-wise. Ace is worst against protoss and tsl didn't throw any toss at him (they don't have great toss, but in terms of stats, ace is terrible against toss, why not try it?)
ROFL? Coaches know their players better than we do. You can't judge a player simply based on match statistics. Maybe Virus is really good vs Zerg in practice? Maybe he's improved his TvZ greatly, but hasn't had a chance to showcase it? Official matches aren't everything. Or maybe Virus wanted to play, maybe the coach wanted Virus to try his luck against a rising Zerg player. A lot of things go into roster choices.
May I just say I got both right. Virus lost, the unknown zerg they played next won... stats win out in everything.
Good for you. In the end though, the coach makes the decisions, and will continue to make the decisions, not the community, though statistics obviously also factors into the coach's decision as well.
On February 16 2012 11:48 boxman22 wrote: Do the coaches not look at player statistics? Virus is far and away best vs toss, so why would you throw him against a zerg? Whereas symbol is the worst against zerg. Why not use curious who is really really good vs zerg?
Tsl's player choices leading up to this point were also quite terrible statistics-wise. Ace is worst against protoss and tsl didn't throw any toss at him (they don't have great toss, but in terms of stats, ace is terrible against toss, why not try it?)
ROFL? Coaches know their players better than we do. You can't judge a player simply based on match statistics. Maybe Virus is really good vs Zerg in practice? Maybe he's improved his TvZ greatly, but hasn't had a chance to showcase it? Official matches aren't everything. Or maybe Virus wanted to play, maybe the coach wanted Virus to try his luck against a rising Zerg player. A lot of things go into roster choices.
May I just say I got both right. Virus lost, the unknown zerg they played next won... stats win out in everything.
Good for you. In the end though, the coach makes the decisions, and will continue to make the decisions, not the community, though statistics obviously also factors into the coach's decision as well.
Do they though? The tsl coach's player choices were very very questionable and definitely went counter to what stats would indicate.
EPT
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