Based on the potential issues with the La Creme ad, and our desire to give everyone the best experience possible, we have decided to completely turn off all ads for the remainder of the event. We want to make sure nobody gets frustrated and stuck on this one ad that seems to poke its annoying head into our broadcasts. Thanks for your support of the IPL and we hope you enjoy the rest of the event!
IGN Pro League Week 2, Day 4 - Grand Finals - Best of Five, starting on Xel'Naga Caverns
Set 1: EGIdrA vs ROOTKiWiKaKi - Grand Finals Set 2 (If ROOTKiWiKaKi wins Set 1): EGIdrA vs ROOTKiWiKaKi
Set 1: EGIdrA vs ROOTKiWiKaKi Game 1: EGIdrA < ROOTKiWiKaKi on Xel'Naga Caverns Game 2: EGIdrA < ROOTKiWiKaKi on Tal'Darim Altar Game 3: EGIdrA > ROOTKiWiKaKi on Shattered Temple Game 4: EGIdrA > ROOTKiWiKaKi on Shakuras Plateau Game 5: EGIdrA > ROOTKiWiKaKi on Terminus RE
►EGIdrA wins the first ever IGN Pro League! ►ROOTKiWiKaKi comes in second place for IPL Season One!
Thank you everyone who has tuned in thus far and made IPL Season One a success! We hope you enjoy tonight and we look forward to bringing you IPL Season Two, details to be announced this coming week!
On May 02 2011 06:51 Blasphemi wrote: Thanks for putting on this great tournament. Looking forward to the final and hoping for an Idra win.
Dito. I'm just amazed everytime I watch this league and realize it's your first time running one and then I'm even in more shock after realizing that's it's free and the quality of the games are great.
Hmm, same format finals as MLG disappoints me. If it wasn't enough that KiWiKaKi Bo5's against Vibe + Axslav, now he has to win two Bo5's against IdrA, I still don't understand it, KiWiKaKi already suffered hard by having to fight truth the winners brackets. Was hoping for one Bo7.
Either way, great tournament so far, great players, great quality. I'll definitely be tuning in today, let's go Kiwi <3
On May 02 2011 06:54 Tempest[OEC] wrote: I was really impressed by this tournament and I look forward to the next season! This was really great!
Btw can anyone explain the reason for two Bo5s? One grand final and another in case kiwikaki wins?
It's because of the double elimination setup. Any player has to lose twice before they can be knocked out of the tournament, and thus, the player who comes from the winner's bracket has to lose twice in the finals before getting knocked out of the tournament, whereas the player who comes from the loser's bracket has already lost once, so if they lose the first set, they are out.
Basically, Kiwikaki has to win two BO5s and Idra only has to win one BO5.
On May 02 2011 06:54 Tempest[OEC] wrote: I was really impressed by this tournament and I look forward to the next season! This was really great!
Btw can anyone explain the reason for two Bo5s? One grand final and another in case kiwikaki wins?
Since IdrA hasn't lost yet, he gets an advantage, meaning every player in the tournament is allowed to lose once. Not the most favored format, but if you recall MLG, it was very similiar where Naniwa being from the winners bracket was up 2-0 on Kiwikaki because they have met before and Naniwa won.
But then theres the arguement that it's too big of a disadvantage because the person from the loser bracket had to play many more games.
On May 02 2011 06:54 Tempest[OEC] wrote: I was really impressed by this tournament and I look forward to the next season! This was really great!
Btw can anyone explain the reason for two Bo5s? One grand final and another in case kiwikaki wins?
Since IdrA hasn't lost yet, he gets an advantage, meaning every player in the tournament is allowed to lose once. Not the most favored format, but if you recall MLG, it was very similiar where Naniwa being from the winners bracket was up 2-0 on Kiwikaki because they have met before and Naniwa won.
But then theres the arguement that it's too big of a disadvantage because the person from the loser bracket had to play many more games.
This isn't extended series, this is just normal double elim. Idra does not have an advantage over Kiwi except for having not lost any sets.
On May 02 2011 06:51 Alex.IGN wrote: Thank you everyone who has tuned in thus far and made IPL Season One a success! We hope you enjoy tonight and we look forward to bringing you IPL Season Two, details to be announced this coming week!
Really awesome job. Good choice on the casters too. Don't reveal the results next time though!!
On May 02 2011 06:54 Tempest[OEC] wrote: I was really impressed by this tournament and I look forward to the next season! This was really great!
Btw can anyone explain the reason for two Bo5s? One grand final and another in case kiwikaki wins?
It's because of the double elimination setup. Any player has to lose twice before they can be knocked out of the tournament, and thus, the player who comes from the winner's bracket has to lose twice in the finals before getting knocked out of the tournament, whereas the player who comes from the loser's bracket has already lost once, so if they lose the first set, they are out.
Basically, Kiwikaki has to win two BO5s and Idra only has to win one BO5.
Ah thank you for the quick response. Makes sense. Not my favorite system in the world but its not up to me. Looking foward to (up to 10) great games!
On May 02 2011 06:54 Tempest[OEC] wrote: I was really impressed by this tournament and I look forward to the next season! This was really great!
Btw can anyone explain the reason for two Bo5s? One grand final and another in case kiwikaki wins?
Since IdrA hasn't lost yet, he gets an advantage, meaning every player in the tournament is allowed to lose once. Not the most favored format, but if you recall MLG, it was very similiar where Naniwa being from the winners bracket was up 2-0 on Kiwikaki because they have met before and Naniwa won.
But then theres the arguement that it's too big of a disadvantage because the person from the loser bracket had to play many more games.
In agree but in this particular case it seems quite fair. Kiwikaki didn't have to play too many matches and he did already lose a bo5 to IdrA.
What I'm curious about is if this was a sudden change or not because if you look on the IPL site, you see them announce the final as a Bo7.
On May 02 2011 06:54 Tempest[OEC] wrote: I was really impressed by this tournament and I look forward to the next season! This was really great!
Btw can anyone explain the reason for two Bo5s? One grand final and another in case kiwikaki wins?
Since IdrA hasn't lost yet, he gets an advantage, meaning every player in the tournament is allowed to lose once. Not the most favored format, but if you recall MLG, it was very similiar where Naniwa being from the winners bracket was up 2-0 on Kiwikaki because they have met before and Naniwa won.
But then theres the arguement that it's too big of a disadvantage because the person from the loser bracket had to play many more games.
This isn't extended series, this is just normal double elim. Idra does not have an advantage over Kiwi except for having not lost any sets.
I don't see how you can think winning one Bo5 is not a advantage as opposed to winning 2 Bo5. You can play relaxed, because you know even if you mess up this series, you always have another. Anyhow.
On May 02 2011 06:54 Tempest[OEC] wrote: I was really impressed by this tournament and I look forward to the next season! This was really great!
Btw can anyone explain the reason for two Bo5s? One grand final and another in case kiwikaki wins?
Since IdrA hasn't lost yet, he gets an advantage, meaning every player in the tournament is allowed to lose once. Not the most favored format, but if you recall MLG, it was very similiar where Naniwa being from the winners bracket was up 2-0 on Kiwikaki because they have met before and Naniwa won.
But then theres the arguement that it's too big of a disadvantage because the person from the loser bracket had to play many more games.
In agree but in this particular case it seems quite fair. Kiwikaki didn't have to play too many matches and he did already lose a bo5 to IdrA.
What I'm curious about is if this was a sudden change or not because if you look on the IPL site, you see them announce the final as a Bo7.
It was a last minute change because Kiwi was like 'd00d you realize Idra and I might have to play 14 games straight' and I was like 'Yup, now do it' and then 30 seconds later I said 'Yeah, that's a ton of games, let's do BO5'. And there's your inside look into the IPL.
I find it rather interesting people don't know what double elim is. Can I assume you guys are new to Esports? If so that's really cool. SC2 bringing in new people is quite promising.
On May 02 2011 06:54 Tempest[OEC] wrote: I was really impressed by this tournament and I look forward to the next season! This was really great!
Btw can anyone explain the reason for two Bo5s? One grand final and another in case kiwikaki wins?
Since IdrA hasn't lost yet, he gets an advantage, meaning every player in the tournament is allowed to lose once. Not the most favored format, but if you recall MLG, it was very similiar where Naniwa being from the winners bracket was up 2-0 on Kiwikaki because they have met before and Naniwa won.
But then theres the arguement that it's too big of a disadvantage because the person from the loser bracket had to play many more games.
This isn't extended series, this is just normal double elim. Idra does not have an advantage over Kiwi except for having not lost any sets.
I don't see how you can think winning one Bo5 is not a advantage as opposed to winning 2 Bo5. You can play relaxed, because you know even if you mess up this series, you always have another. Anyhow.
I meant not an advantage like starting up 2-0 in a BO7 or something like that. IdrA of course has an advantage in terms of how many sets he has to win.
On May 02 2011 06:54 Tempest[OEC] wrote: I was really impressed by this tournament and I look forward to the next season! This was really great!
Btw can anyone explain the reason for two Bo5s? One grand final and another in case kiwikaki wins?
Since IdrA hasn't lost yet, he gets an advantage, meaning every player in the tournament is allowed to lose once. Not the most favored format, but if you recall MLG, it was very similiar where Naniwa being from the winners bracket was up 2-0 on Kiwikaki because they have met before and Naniwa won.
But then theres the arguement that it's too big of a disadvantage because the person from the loser bracket had to play many more games.
This isn't extended series, this is just normal double elim. Idra does not have an advantage over Kiwi except for having not lost any sets.
I don't see how you can think winning one Bo5 is not a advantage as opposed to winning 2 Bo5. You can play relaxed, because you know even if you mess up this series, you always have another. Anyhow.
I meant not an advantage like starting up 2-0 in a BO7 or something like that. IdrA of course has an advantage in terms of how many sets he has to win.
Okay I see, I know they aren't the same thing, but in a way, they do the same thing. Kiwikaki has to win 6 games, IdrA needs to win 3-5 games... Yielding something similiar as an extended result.
There was a big pool on teamliquid about the extended series rule, and if people like it... And it turned out approx 60% didn't like it, 20% liked it, and 20% were undecided (10k votes total?). So while it isn't the exact same, I think for your next tournaments to come, consider that as I do think one big series would be preferred by most.
And I just want to add that it's great you guys are responding to the community and answering questions, it's great to see. Hopefully I'm not coming off as arrogant.
On May 02 2011 07:15 ArghUScaredMe wrote: How's Kiwikaki compared top IdrA? I love TSL3 where IdrA had to face quite formidable opponents and got eliminated early.
In IPL, IdrA is just having a field day.
At MLG Dallas Kiwikaki steamrolled IdrA, but in IPL Winner's Round 3 Idra steamrolled Kiwikaki. So generally pretty even on the skill level.
On May 02 2011 07:15 ArghUScaredMe wrote: How's Kiwikaki compared top IdrA? I love TSL3 where IdrA had to face quite formidable opponents and got eliminated early.
In IPL, IdrA is just having a field day.
Kiwi has pretty much had Idra's number in SC2 until IPL, where Idra beat Kiwi 3-0 once.
On May 02 2011 07:15 ArghUScaredMe wrote: How's Kiwikaki compared top IdrA? I love TSL3 where IdrA had to face quite formidable opponents and got eliminated early.
In IPL, IdrA is just having a field day.
PvZ is Kiwi's second best match up (After PvT)... Generally speaking it's pretty good as he does a lot of these strange unorthodox manuevers which IdrA tends to be weak to, as well as Kiwi has a really good lategame.
Can't call Kiwi favoured, but he is one of the few people that can consistantly beat him... In the winners semi's Kiwi just didn't play his best, while IdrA played really well... Hence the result. Historically SelecT and KiWiKaKi are the people who can beat IdrA the most, so let's just hope!
On May 02 2011 07:15 ArghUScaredMe wrote: How's Kiwikaki compared top IdrA? I love TSL3 where IdrA had to face quite formidable opponents and got eliminated early.
In IPL, IdrA is just having a field day.
Kiwi has pretty much had Idra's number in SC2 until IPL, where Idra beat Kiwi 3-0 once.
IdrA has been having a rough streak vs. toss up until now. I'm hoping this has ended now because it looks like IdrA has revised his ZvP style quite a bit.
Ugh, when I asked about extended series yesterday and heard there wasn't going to be any, I was so excited, but I totally forgot about the whole double elimination shenanigans. Ah well, it is what it is.
Finals in these kinds of formats are always so anticlimactic, it's going to take a superhuman effort for KiWi to do anything here. =(
On May 02 2011 06:54 Tempest[OEC] wrote: I was really impressed by this tournament and I look forward to the next season! This was really great!
Btw can anyone explain the reason for two Bo5s? One grand final and another in case kiwikaki wins?
Since IdrA hasn't lost yet, he gets an advantage, meaning every player in the tournament is allowed to lose once. Not the most favored format, but if you recall MLG, it was very similiar where Naniwa being from the winners bracket was up 2-0 on Kiwikaki because they have met before and Naniwa won.
But then theres the arguement that it's too big of a disadvantage because the person from the loser bracket had to play many more games.
This isn't extended series, this is just normal double elim. Idra does not have an advantage over Kiwi except for having not lost any sets.
I don't see how you can think winning one Bo5 is not a advantage as opposed to winning 2 Bo5. You can play relaxed, because you know even if you mess up this series, you always have another. Anyhow.
I meant not an advantage like starting up 2-0 in a BO7 or something like that. IdrA of course has an advantage in terms of how many sets he has to win.
Okay I see, I know they aren't the same thing, but in a way, they do the same thing. Kiwikaki has to win 6 games, IdrA needs to win 3-5 games... Yielding something similiar as an extended result.
There was a big pool on teamliquid about the extended series rule, and if people like it... And it turned out approx 60% didn't like it, 20% liked it, and 20% were undecided (10k votes total?). So while it isn't the exact same, I think for your next tournaments to come, consider that as I do think one big series would be preferred by most.
And I just want to add that it's great you guys are responding to the community and answering questions, it's great to see. Hopefully I'm not coming off as arrogant.
If they removed extended series in MLG this is the exact way they would do it. You aren't understanding that debate. With MLG, the two sides of that debate are this way vs. their extended series.
Great series so far guys. IGN really stepped their game up and I think you splashed into the competitive SC2 scene extremely successfully. Can't wait for these games & for future tournaments ! IGN FTW!
On May 02 2011 07:27 jester- wrote: Great series so far guys. IGN really stepped their game up and I think you splashed into the competitive SC2 scene extremely successfully. Can't wait for these games & for future tournaments ! IGN FTW!
On May 02 2011 07:15 ArghUScaredMe wrote: How's Kiwikaki compared top IdrA? I love TSL3 where IdrA had to face quite formidable opponents and got eliminated early.
In IPL, IdrA is just having a field day.
At MLG Dallas Kiwikaki steamrolled IdrA, but in IPL Winner's Round 3 Idra steamrolled Kiwikaki. So generally pretty even on the skill level.
Wait, that's the same guy who got 0-3'ed by IdrA already?
ZZZZZzzz. This double elimination format is boring. So IdrA is just gonna steamroll him once more.
On May 02 2011 07:15 ArghUScaredMe wrote: How's Kiwikaki compared top IdrA? I love TSL3 where IdrA had to face quite formidable opponents and got eliminated early.
In IPL, IdrA is just having a field day.
Hahaha, nice unintentional pun.
I'm loving the advantage IdrA gets from being in the winner's bracket. I always thought winner's v loser's bracket was wierd and unfair, but this fixes a lot of it for me.
I don't want to start flaming commentators, but my enjoyment of the match will unfortunatly be effected if a certain person casts.
On May 02 2011 07:15 ArghUScaredMe wrote: How's Kiwikaki compared top IdrA? I love TSL3 where IdrA had to face quite formidable opponents and got eliminated early.
In IPL, IdrA is just having a field day.
I'm loving the advantage IdrA gets from being in the winner's bracket. I always thought winner's v loser's bracket was wierd and unfair, but this fixes a lot of it for me.
This is how double elim is always done. So I don't really get why people say this. I assume it's because of NA tournaments like MLG who make their own format but keep a similar setup to Double elim.
On May 02 2011 07:15 ArghUScaredMe wrote: How's Kiwikaki compared top IdrA? I love TSL3 where IdrA had to face quite formidable opponents and got eliminated early.
In IPL, IdrA is just having a field day.
At MLG Dallas Kiwikaki steamrolled IdrA, but in IPL Winner's Round 3 Idra steamrolled Kiwikaki. So generally pretty even on the skill level.
Wait, that's the same guy who got 0-3'ed by IdrA already?
ZZZZZzzz. This double elimination format is boring. So IdrA is just gonna steamroll him once more.
Don't be too sure, Kiwi's total record against IdrA is 4-5. Their most recent match definitely makes IdrA the favourite to win, but it's far from a sure thing.
On May 02 2011 06:54 Tempest[OEC] wrote: I was really impressed by this tournament and I look forward to the next season! This was really great!
Btw can anyone explain the reason for two Bo5s? One grand final and another in case kiwikaki wins?
Since IdrA hasn't lost yet, he gets an advantage, meaning every player in the tournament is allowed to lose once. Not the most favored format, but if you recall MLG, it was very similiar where Naniwa being from the winners bracket was up 2-0 on Kiwikaki because they have met before and Naniwa won.
But then theres the arguement that it's too big of a disadvantage because the person from the loser bracket had to play many more games.
This isn't extended series, this is just normal double elim. Idra does not have an advantage over Kiwi except for having not lost any sets.
I don't see how you can think winning one Bo5 is not a advantage as opposed to winning 2 Bo5. You can play relaxed, because you know even if you mess up this series, you always have another. Anyhow.
I meant not an advantage like starting up 2-0 in a BO7 or something like that. IdrA of course has an advantage in terms of how many sets he has to win.
Okay I see, I know they aren't the same thing, but in a way, they do the same thing. Kiwikaki has to win 6 games, IdrA needs to win 3-5 games... Yielding something similiar as an extended result.
There was a big pool on teamliquid about the extended series rule, and if people like it... And it turned out approx 60% didn't like it, 20% liked it, and 20% were undecided (10k votes total?). So while it isn't the exact same, I think for your next tournaments to come, consider that as I do think one big series would be preferred by most.
And I just want to add that it's great you guys are responding to the community and answering questions, it's great to see. Hopefully I'm not coming off as arrogant.
Perhaps you are right and the majority would indeed like just 1 bo7 in the grand finals, but for myself, in a double elimination tournament, I hate extended series and approve of the double finals format if required. This is how I would like it to be.
edit: Just for clarification I am not advocating two matches in a row for players that have played before except in the case of the finals; if two players play in the winners bracket and then meet again later in the losers bracket, there should be NO advantage. Just a straight BoX match between them.
To the people who don't like that Kiwi has to win two best of fives: if this were single elimination, he would already be eliminated and the finals would've been Select vs. Idra. Idra has to be eliminated twice, it's as simple as that.
On May 02 2011 07:15 ArghUScaredMe wrote: How's Kiwikaki compared top IdrA? I love TSL3 where IdrA had to face quite formidable opponents and got eliminated early.
In IPL, IdrA is just having a field day.
Huh? What are you talking about? The only player IdrA faced at TSL3 was Cruncher. At IPL, IdrA has had to play Drewbie, Select, and Kiwikaki (twice). I'm quite certain that 99.999999% of people would agree that Kiwikaki and Select are a step (or two or three) above Cruncher.
On May 02 2011 07:15 ArghUScaredMe wrote: How's Kiwikaki compared top IdrA? I love TSL3 where IdrA had to face quite formidable opponents and got eliminated early.
In IPL, IdrA is just having a field day.
At MLG Dallas Kiwikaki steamrolled IdrA, but in IPL Winner's Round 3 Idra steamrolled Kiwikaki. So generally pretty even on the skill level.
Wait, that's the same guy who got 0-3'ed by IdrA already?
ZZZZZzzz. This double elimination format is boring. So IdrA is just gonna steamroll him once more.
wow way to show you have zero knowledge of SC2 players!
i can see how double elimination is favorable from a players standpoint of course. but as a spectator its a shame to know kiwis chances of winning are slim to none. though ill still watch of course ^^
On May 02 2011 08:16 Sporadic44 wrote: i can see how double elimination is favorable from a players standpoint of course. but as a spectator its a shame to know kiwis chances of winning are slim to none. though ill still watch of course ^^
It's not really? It's just the square of his chances of winning one series. I guess if you already thought he was going to get destroyed it just seals the deal. Sometimes there's also the effect that the loser's bracket finalist has momentum on his side (more evident in real-time tournaments obviously).
I don't see what all the questioning is about with the tourney format. Winner being forced to lose twice is standard in the double elimination format. This isn't a Starcraft thing, its a general tournament thing. It'd be unfair to change the format just because you guys want to give Kiwi a better chance?
I don't get why people are bitching, if it was a regular tournament, Idra would have won already and Kiwi would have been eliminated already for losing.
Double Elim gives the losers (Kiwi) a second chance, so of course the winners (Idra) should have an advantage in the grand finals.
So when you talk about Kiwi having slim chances or it being unfair for him, just know that, in a normal tournament he would have already lost.
I cant see why people are complaining about the format, it would be pretty unfair to idra if he could be eliminated after losing only one series when everyone else got a second chance.
People comparing double elimination to extended series are being silly.
KiWi has to win twice because he got to the final through the losers bracket, i.e. he's already lost a series in the winners bracket (doesn't matter that it was to IdrA). IdrA made it all the way through the winners bracket without dropping a series, so still has two to lose before being eliminated from the tournament.
Isn't the purpose of double elim so that if 2 two best player colide before the finals, one player isn't robbed of second place? I'm not too against this tournament format in general, but I'd much prefer for the finals to not be double elimination. If one player is heavily favored over the other, it takes away from the hype and anticipation of the final match.
On May 02 2011 08:42 woob wrote: I know there have been leaks, so anyone that knows who wins, please PM me, coz i have to go out with my friend and her family tonight.
On May 02 2011 08:42 woob wrote: I know there have been leaks, so anyone that knows who wins, please PM me, coz i have to go out with my friend and her family tonight.
On May 02 2011 07:58 Dexington wrote: To the people who don't like that Kiwi has to win two best of fives: if this were single elimination, he would already be eliminated and the finals would've been Select vs. Idra. Idra has to be eliminated twice, it's as simple as that.
Not quite. If this were single elimination IdrA would have already won.
Everyone has lost one series so far (except for IdrA). It wouldn't be fair to him if this was only a single series (whether it be BO5 or BO7). Why does everyone get a chance to lose except for him? This is just the nature of double elimination. Everyone has to lose 2 series' to be knocked out of the tournament. It is the only fair way to do it.
The two sets-of-five final seems fair to the players in a double elimination tournament, I understand why they do it. But from a spectator stand point it is just too much and kind of anti-climactic.
Don't really know what a alternative solution would be though.
DoomsVille, I think that's what Dexington was saying. The finals would have been Select vs Idra and the series that Idra won against Select probably would have been a Bo7 instead of the Bo5 that it was.
On May 02 2011 07:58 Dexington wrote: To the people who don't like that Kiwi has to win two best of fives: if this were single elimination, he would already be eliminated and the finals would've been Select vs. Idra. Idra has to be eliminated twice, it's as simple as that.
Not quite. If this were single elimination IdrA would have already won.
Everyone has lost one series so far (except for IdrA). It wouldn't be fair to him if this was only a single series (whether it be BO5 or BO7). Why does everyone get a chance to lose except for him? This is just the nature of double elimination. Everyone has to lose 2 series' to be knocked out of the tournament. It is the only fair way to do it.
Yep. And IdrA was the one that Kiwikaki lost to anyway, so in a way they've both knocked everyone else out of the tournament, and IdrA is current up one Bo5 on him.
On May 02 2011 06:54 Tempest[OEC] wrote: I was really impressed by this tournament and I look forward to the next season! This was really great!
Btw can anyone explain the reason for two Bo5s? One grand final and another in case kiwikaki wins?
Since IdrA hasn't lost yet, he gets an advantage, meaning every player in the tournament is allowed to lose once. Not the most favored format, but if you recall MLG, it was very similiar where Naniwa being from the winners bracket was up 2-0 on Kiwikaki because they have met before and Naniwa won.
But then theres the arguement that it's too big of a disadvantage because the person from the loser bracket had to play many more games.
In agree but in this particular case it seems quite fair. Kiwikaki didn't have to play too many matches and he did already lose a bo5 to IdrA.
What I'm curious about is if this was a sudden change or not because if you look on the IPL site, you see them announce the final as a Bo7.
It was a last minute change because Kiwi was like 'd00d you realize Idra and I might have to play 14 games straight' and I was like 'Yup, now do it' and then 30 seconds later I said 'Yeah, that's a ton of games, let's do BO5'. And there's your inside look into the IPL.
lol that would have been epic alex we could spend all night together watching starcraft :D just imagine what It would be like in game 11 and its already been 8 hours.
Kiwi drops his second gas with his core on the way, IdrA's zerglings are taking out the pylon block at his natural - JUST before the pylon goes down, Kiwi drops a cyber core at IdrA's natural, hilarious, delays the expansion quite a bit.
On May 02 2011 09:05 T0fuuu wrote: Only 4k viewers ? Need more hype!! Hopefully next season when the prizepurse is bigger they will get a front page writeup on tl.
On May 02 2011 09:05 T0fuuu wrote: Only 4k viewers ? Need more hype!! Hopefully next season when the prizepurse is bigger they will get a front page writeup on tl.
On May 02 2011 09:05 T0fuuu wrote: Only 4k viewers ? Need more hype!! Hopefully next season when the prizepurse is bigger they will get a front page writeup on tl.
idrA had the advantage when he stuffed the four gate, he should've just taken a third and played a standard game there was no need for him to do that roach attack.
Nah, he was likely going to lose, he pumped those roaches for a long time instead of units, and lost all of them after killing almost nothing. That game was over
I think Idra may have expected Kiwi to just go for a 6gate, which he would obviously crush with what he did. When he didn't, he must have figured his failed blind counter + failed attack = too far behind.
i swear if HD screams again im going to turn off the stream. its literally overloading my speakers. and i hate his and painuser's clearly smug attitude towards idra. so annoying. i really hope IPL doesn't use them again next season.
On May 02 2011 09:11 proxY_ wrote: idrA had the advantage when he stuffed the four gate, he should've just taken a third and played a standard game there was no need for him to do that roach attack.
Zerg is not at an advantage when they drop a 4gate expand, he had to pump roaches and make spines.
He was ahead a little because kiwi spammed all his FF and lost his stalkers, which is his own fault.
On May 02 2011 09:12 Pwere wrote: Idra was dead. The only questionable decision there was going for the ling/roach all-in vs a 4gate expand. Clutch FF by kiwi.
well hopefully he can FF roaches that are slowly moving underground.
On May 02 2011 09:10 bkrow wrote: WHOA! IdrA gg's!!!
Can someone sum up please? And what did HD miscall?
Kiwi fail four gated and fell back to his natural, he got his robo up and got an observer.
As burrow and tunneling claws finished, IdrA tried to put huge pressure onto Kiwi's natural - he burrowed and tried to push into the natural, but Kiwi just kept forcefielding on top of the burrowed roaches. When they finally popped, the roaches were surrounded and destroyed.
Yeah, it's really hard to be a fan of his in moments like this. He's never going to be truly great if he is unwilling to try after the smallest deficit.
On May 02 2011 09:13 Juvant wrote: Yeah, it's really hard to be a fan of his in moments like this. He's never going to be truly great if he is unwilling to try after the smallest deficit.
Small deficit??? I think he would keep playing in the grand finals of a tourney if that were true.
On May 02 2011 09:10 bkrow wrote: WHOA! IdrA gg's!!!
Can someone sum up please? And what did HD miscall?
Kiwikaki goes for a 4 gate. Fake 3 gate expand into 4 gate. Idra sacs an ovie, Kiwi warps in THREE units to disguise his 4 gate and to kill that ovie. He's trying really hard to deny a scout and idra senses somethings a miss so he throws down 3 spines. Makes roaches. Kiwi ffs like crazy at Idras nat and loses a stalker and zealot. Idra defends but Kiwi saves all his sentries. At this point Idra can drone like crazy but he STOPS droning after making like 5 drones. So they're at even workers. Idra tries to go for a timing push with burrowed roaches. But kiwi has an immortal out by then. Idra overextends his roach army, kiwi FFs perfectly while retrating and kills them all. Idra is way behind at this point because kiwi can just counter (barely lost anything) while Idra has little drones and has to remake his army. Kiwi would've gotten his third earlier than Idra.
Anyway, HD is getting on my nerves these days. Especially when he tries to make analogy of the world politics to Starcraft 2 matches. I caught couple of matches where he was saying one player has an army and economy like America and the other one is some third world country and this is attacking etc.
WTF, this dude has a very small brain and his lack of taste is getting on my nerves.
On May 02 2011 09:12 LightWireEX wrote: i swear if HD screams again im going to turn off the stream. its literally overloading my speakers. and i hate his and painuser's clearly smug attitude towards idra. so annoying. i really hope IPL doesn't use them again next season.
What do you mean by smug attitude. HD and PainUser kept saying that IdrA has been playing very well. It's a testament of how highly they value their skill that they think that IdrA stood a chance even at a disadvantage.
If they truly think lowly of IdrA then they wouldn't make a big deal out of the gg.
And to add to that, as far as I know, HD himself is a Vietnamese American. What kind of sick analogy is that? He should go ahead and make analogy like that, "America is going to attack Vietnam and destroy" etc.
That sounds bad? Well, then stop making such crappy analogies, buddy.
On May 02 2011 09:10 bkrow wrote: WHOA! IdrA gg's!!!
Can someone sum up please? And what did HD miscall?
Kiwi fail four gated and fell back to his natural, he got his robo up and got an observer.
As burrow and tunneling claws finished, IdrA tried to put huge pressure onto Kiwi's natural - he burrowed and tried to push into the natural, but Kiwi just kept forcefielding on top of the burrowed roaches. When they finally popped, the roaches were surrounded and destroyed.
IdrA went for a 1 base roach ling bust against Kiwi's forge FE - kiwi got extra cannons up and at the end of it Kiwi had a 6 harvester and 1 base advantage
On May 02 2011 09:22 Gautz wrote: may some1 tell me, what happened in game 1 and so far in game 2? Just tuned in
g1 Kiwi went for a four gate, idra deflected it but kiwi retained his sentries and went into an expansion. IdrA then did a burrowed roach all in and Kiwi had an obs in time leading to debatably a premature gg but idra was behind.
g2 kiwi forge expanded and idra went for a roach ling bust. Kiwi was able to hold it and idrA has been playing behind all game.
Good attempt at playing it out by Idra, but seriously could we get Totalbiscuit for commentating right now, because comparing Idra to copper player is not really the way to go...
I don't get it... This map is HUGE and got big open areas. But Idra chose to gather his whole army into a big ball, then a-move into the Protoss army. He didn't try to flank, or surround the Protoss army, he didn't even position his roach army before the battle in order to get a better concave.
I really am not happy with hd calling idra a copper player. Come on, he's doing his best, don't disrespect the players (especially when they're actually amazing like both our finalists).
Honestly HD calling idra a copper league player was totally uncalled for, idra was way behind from the start, apparently he didn't take that into consideration before opening his mouth.
I love the players and the production value but please ditch the casters (except DJ Wheat). I rarely stop watching high profile games because of casters but I've had to do it this tourney more than once.
I think the casting is pretty good, don't know what ppl are complaining about. Sure i rather have Day9 or someone like that but HD/T-pain is pretty nice too.
On May 02 2011 09:32 Mellon wrote: Roach corrptor only... and a few mismicroed Infestors... Don't like it, will just feed the zerg whiners.. Poor decisions made Idra lose that one.
What was he supposed to get?
He all-ined. The fact kiwi didn't get void rays and end the game 10 minutes earlier is his own fault.
Normally I don't care about the casting. But HD is awful. Just absolutely awful. He yells and gets excited for no reason. And he has very little game sense.
Hey, imho HD and PainUser are really great casters, wheat and tb are also not bad. but I really enjoy listening to PU and HD, just wanted to say after some criticism here.
The hatch was late because idra didn't know if that pylon was cancelled and he needed the lings to ensure that the hatch would go down. Very basic zerg strategy and hd is a masters zerg? really?
I think I've figured HD out. He always follows this pattern:
1. Make obvious observations 2. Raise voice, often while there's nothing important happening, while making obvious observations 3. Analyze what's just happened incorrectly 4. Raise voice again while analysis is proven wrong 5. Repeat until game ends
On May 02 2011 09:34 Azarkon wrote: Every tournament not cast by Day9, Tasteless, Chill, or Artosis attracts so much caster hate... Jeezus.
The casters are fine. Except for HD I guess- his casting is annoying because he puts out a feign of being knowledgeable but probably is no higher than 2k masters.. And no, moletrap and DOA are getting a lot of praise on Code-A. And people have criticized chill before.
On May 02 2011 09:36 Radical wrote: I think I've figured HD out. He always follows this pattern:
1. Make obvious observations 2. Raise voice, often while there's nothing important happening, while making obvious observations 3. Analyze what's just happened incorrectly 4. Raise voice again while analysis is proven wrong 5. Repeat until game ends
This thread just spawned the HD hatewagon. Do people dislike Husky in same manner too here in TL?
On May 02 2011 09:36 Radical wrote: I think I've figured HD out. He always follows this pattern:
1. Make obvious observations 2. Raise voice, often while there's nothing important happening, while making obvious observations 3. Analyze what's just happened incorrectly 4. Raise voice again while analysis is proven wrong 5. Repeat until game ends
This thread just spawned the HD hatewagon. Do people dislike Husky in same manner too here in TL?
On May 02 2011 09:36 Radical wrote: I think I've figured HD out. He always follows this pattern:
1. Make obvious observations 2. Raise voice, often while there's nothing important happening, while making obvious observations 3. Analyze what's just happened incorrectly 4. Raise voice again while analysis is proven wrong 5. Repeat until game ends
On May 02 2011 09:36 Radical wrote: I think I've figured HD out. He always follows this pattern:
1. Make obvious observations 2. Raise voice, often while there's nothing important happening, while making obvious observations 3. Analyze what's just happened incorrectly 4. Raise voice again while analysis is proven wrong 5. Repeat until game ends
This thread just spawned the HD hatewagon. Do people dislike Husky in same manner too here in TL?
Well you have to admit it was pretty stupid that he was shouting about idra not expanding, when kiwi canceled his pylon that idra didnt see.
On May 02 2011 09:36 Radical wrote: I think I've figured HD out. He always follows this pattern:
1. Make obvious observations 2. Raise voice, often while there's nothing important happening, while making obvious observations 3. Analyze what's just happened incorrectly 4. Raise voice again while analysis is proven wrong 5. Repeat until game ends
This thread just spawned the HD hatewagon. Do people dislike Husky in same manner too here in TL?
It was like that for Husky until everyone saw him cast at the TSL and respected his commentary a little more, but people are really picky when it comes to casters
On May 02 2011 09:38 dtz wrote: I've seen him do this roach ling all in a lot of times against 3 gate sentries expand all the time and i've never seen him fail.
let's see if he can muster a comeback.
I want IdrA to win - but i want it to be in the second Bo5 because that would be very very epic :p
On May 02 2011 09:34 MonsieurGrimm wrote: jesus fucking christ HD calm down its just a few seconds late t.t
They missed that little nuance. Kiwikaki dropped the pylon to delay the hatchery at 15, and IdrA just sent his two drones back assuming Kiwi would let it build, but Kiwi cancels it. IdrA never went back to check it actually built or not.. so it looked late, it wasn't.
On May 02 2011 09:39 hugman wrote: Zergs seem to be all-inning sooo much in ZvP nowadays. The matchup is degenerating
Consider about 2 months ago when terrans only did all-ins against zerg, and everybody was like "OMG MATCHUP DEGENERATING", but with no actual balance changes , the matchup evolved (regenerated?) into one of the most interesting, dynamic ones.
Clever maneuver by Idra there... Kiwi's sentries were in the perfect position to defend that but Idra runs about 5 lings behind kiwi's nat min which forces Kiwi to chase them with his sentries. Idra then flanks in with the rest of his lings, and roaches from behind. kekeke. Kiwi should've just left 1 sentry to guard that part of the mineral line.
On May 02 2011 09:38 dtz wrote: I've seen him do this roach ling all in a lot of times against 3 gate sentries expand all the time and i've never seen him fail.
let's see if he can muster a comeback.
You can hold it but gotta get either early cannons, or skip forge and go way more gateway units.. Surprised Kiwi didn't see it coming since idra really does that every 3 gw expo...
On May 02 2011 09:36 Radical wrote: I think I've figured HD out. He always follows this pattern:
1. Make obvious observations 2. Raise voice, often while there's nothing important happening, while making obvious observations 3. Analyze what's just happened incorrectly 4. Raise voice again while analysis is proven wrong 5. Repeat until game ends
This thread just spawned the HD hatewagon. Do people dislike Husky in same manner too here in TL?
husky posted a criticism blog.
So HD got his name from making High definition comentary of a 32-bit game? and people watched this?
On May 02 2011 09:33 Phonics wrote: I love the players and the production value but please ditch the casters (except DJ Wheat). I rarely stop watching high profile games because of casters but I've had to do it this tourney more than once.
This and give Wheat a Co-Caster since he seems a little bit Lost sometimes.
But besides that its definately a great Tournament and I cant wait for Season 2!
On May 02 2011 09:36 Radical wrote: I think I've figured HD out. He always follows this pattern:
1. Make obvious observations 2. Raise voice, often while there's nothing important happening, while making obvious observations 3. Analyze what's just happened incorrectly 4. Raise voice again while analysis is proven wrong 5. Repeat until game ends
This thread just spawned the HD hatewagon. Do people dislike Husky in same manner too here in TL?
I think Husky might actually be worse (I think his voice is grating), I think they both lack fundamental game knowledge and they appeal to the casual fan while completely turning off the hardcore ones.
On May 02 2011 09:39 hugman wrote: Zergs seem to be all-inning sooo much in ZvP nowadays. The matchup is degenerating
Consider about 2 months ago when terrans only did all-ins against zerg, and everybody was like "OMG MATCHUP DEGENERATING", but with no actual balance changes , the matchup evolved (regenerated?) into one of the most interesting, dynamic ones.
This, it's more like setting the ground rules for the match up. 3 gate expands might just be a little bit too greedy at the moment because you're so blind until hallucinate is out.
On May 02 2011 09:39 hugman wrote: Zergs seem to be all-inning sooo much in ZvP nowadays. The matchup is degenerating
Consider about 2 months ago when terrans only did all-ins against zerg, and everybody was like "OMG MATCHUP DEGENERATING", but with no actual balance changes , the matchup evolved (regenerated?) into one of the most interesting, dynamic ones.
Terran rushes got nerfed to HELL. I don't know what you are talking about lol.
Not only was every close position map removed, but bunkers take +5-10 seconds than before to make, cannot block ramps, etc.
On May 02 2011 09:40 DaCruise wrote: I wonder when this "Its cool to hate on popular casters" lameness will pass away.
I don't think that's what's happening here. All of my favorite casters are more popular than HD is, so for me popularity really has nothing to do with it.
In my opinion, the only sad thing is that you really can actually call IdrA's build a blind counter to 3 gate expand even after he scouted the 2 gates going down. Kiwi still could have been doing almost anything.
On May 02 2011 09:41 Exley wrote: Why do people think Husky/HD "lack game knowledge." What does that even mean?
Maybe because Idra did a standard speedling opening into hatch on 21 and he was like OHHHHHH MY GODDD HES GOING ALL IN AGAINNNNNNNNNNNNNNNN before he put his hatch down? When it's STANDARD PLAY?
On May 02 2011 09:36 Radical wrote: I think I've figured HD out. He always follows this pattern:
1. Make obvious observations 2. Raise voice, often while there's nothing important happening, while making obvious observations 3. Analyze what's just happened incorrectly 4. Raise voice again while analysis is proven wrong 5. Repeat until game ends
GSL is like this every night, do you complain about that? Tasteless gives nothing but useless 'information' and follows Artosis' lead. Painuser gives the insightful pro commentary of what he would be thinking while playing.
On May 02 2011 09:36 Radical wrote: I think I've figured HD out. He always follows this pattern:
1. Make obvious observations 2. Raise voice, often while there's nothing important happening, while making obvious observations 3. Analyze what's just happened incorrectly 4. Raise voice again while analysis is proven wrong 5. Repeat until game ends
This thread just spawned the HD hatewagon. Do people dislike Husky in same manner too here in TL?
I think Husky might actually be worse (I think his voice is grating), I think they both lack fundamental game knowledge and they appeal to the casual fan while completely turning off the hardcore ones.
If you had actually listened to Husky's TSL3 casting, you would've noticed that he has improved greatly and added some nice analysis to his casting.
On May 02 2011 09:36 Radical wrote: I think I've figured HD out. He always follows this pattern:
1. Make obvious observations 2. Raise voice, often while there's nothing important happening, while making obvious observations 3. Analyze what's just happened incorrectly 4. Raise voice again while analysis is proven wrong 5. Repeat until game ends
This thread just spawned the HD hatewagon. Do people dislike Husky in same manner too here in TL?
I think Husky might actually be worse (I think his voice is grating), I think they both lack fundamental game knowledge and they appeal to the casual fan while completely turning off the hardcore ones.
If you had actually listened to Husky's TSL3 casting, you would've noticed that he has improved greatly and added some nice analysis to his casting.
I've watched all the games and I'm not impressed at all.
On May 02 2011 09:41 Exley wrote: Why do people think Husky/HD "lack game knowledge." What does that even mean?
It means they make poor judgment calls and say things that are false. For instance, if a caster looks at Scrap Station and then claims that 3raxing is very popular on that map, most people would agree they probably don't have much game knowledge. Just a random example.
On May 02 2011 09:36 Radical wrote: I think I've figured HD out. He always follows this pattern:
1. Make obvious observations 2. Raise voice, often while there's nothing important happening, while making obvious observations 3. Analyze what's just happened incorrectly 4. Raise voice again while analysis is proven wrong 5. Repeat until game ends
GSL is like this every night, do you complain about that? Tasteless gives nothing but useless 'information' and follows Artosis' lead. Painuser gives the insightful pro commentary of what he would be thinking while playing.
Not personally commenting on balance, but I believe a lot of zerg are starting to feel that all-in vs protoss is a better chance then long macro games.
On May 02 2011 09:41 Exley wrote: Why do people think Husky/HD "lack game knowledge." What does that even mean?
it basically means they dont know what theyre talking about 50% of the time in game, like when idra was going for a hatch at a normal time they thought he was going to all in because they didnt see a hatch.
On May 02 2011 09:41 Exley wrote: Why do people think Husky/HD "lack game knowledge." What does that even mean?
It's cool to hate on popular things didn't you know? In all reality forums in general are full of angry angry people. HD isn't my favorite by any means but he isn't half as bad as some people seem to think.
On May 02 2011 09:40 DaCruise wrote: I wonder when this "Its cool to hate on popular casters" lameness will pass away.
I don't think that's what's happening here. All of my favorite casters are more popular than HD is, so for me popularity really has nothing to do with it.
If we look at the youtube subscriber number only Husky is more popular. Ofc that doesnt mean he is the best,,, but Husky is indeed the most popular followed by HD.
On May 02 2011 09:36 Radical wrote: I think I've figured HD out. He always follows this pattern:
1. Make obvious observations 2. Raise voice, often while there's nothing important happening, while making obvious observations 3. Analyze what's just happened incorrectly 4. Raise voice again while analysis is proven wrong 5. Repeat until game ends
GSL is like this every night, do you complain about that? Tasteless gives nothing but useless 'information' and follows Artosis' lead. Painuser gives the insightful pro commentary of what he would be thinking while playing.
Nah, that was Tasteless of the first 2 seasons. He has really improved now. Even Artosis is now often blown away by the analysis Tasteless gives.
On May 02 2011 09:40 DaCruise wrote: I wonder when this "Its cool to hate on popular casters" lameness will pass away.
Its sad to be distracted from an epic game by highly annoying (incorrect/too loud/bad) casting. Some people cast almost perfectly and have no issues... some people don't and are 'popular' because they know how to keep people who don't understand the game entertained in an isolated youtube format but they clearly don't belong casting a serious tournament. I think the reason it looks like everyone is jumping onto the 'caster hate' bandwagon, is because its so blatantly obvious that youtube casters aren't good at doing serious tournaments....
On May 02 2011 09:41 Exley wrote: Why do people think Husky/HD "lack game knowledge." What does that even mean?
I'm not one to hate on casters, but I imagine what other people mean, for example, could be like when the casters were so blown away that Idra managed to macro up to 200 so fast in game 2. But his army was almost exclusively ROACHES, which really cost more supply than they're worth in resources, so it was hardly as impressive as they made it seem. And then Idra's uber max army of roaches and about three corrupters got destroyed...
I always thought 3 Gate expo was a conceptually really bad build tbh. Expansion is quite late, tech is late, tons of gas go into a gimmicky defensive unit and there's no real substantial army to defend or pressure without relying on forcefields. It's kinda safe, but it's way too conservative in every category.
I'm surprised it remained standard for so long, but then again Zerg metagame develops slowly so it kind of stuck. -_-
On May 02 2011 09:40 DaCruise wrote: I wonder when this "Its cool to hate on popular casters" lameness will pass away.
I don't think that's what's happening here. All of my favorite casters are more popular than HD is, so for me popularity really has nothing to do with it.
If we look at the youtube subscriber number only Husky is more popular. Ofc that doesnt mean he is the best,,, but Husky is indeed the most popular followed by HD.
I never watch SC content on Youtube so I wouldn't know how popular any casters are there.
On May 02 2011 09:36 Radical wrote: I think I've figured HD out. He always follows this pattern:
1. Make obvious observations 2. Raise voice, often while there's nothing important happening, while making obvious observations 3. Analyze what's just happened incorrectly 4. Raise voice again while analysis is proven wrong 5. Repeat until game ends
GSL is like this every night, do you complain about that? Tasteless gives nothing but useless 'information' and follows Artosis' lead. Painuser gives the insightful pro commentary of what he would be thinking while playing.
Did you just compare Tasteless to HD?
I compared my view of Tasteless to someone else's view of HD.
On May 02 2011 09:36 Radical wrote: I think I've figured HD out. He always follows this pattern:
1. Make obvious observations 2. Raise voice, often while there's nothing important happening, while making obvious observations 3. Analyze what's just happened incorrectly 4. Raise voice again while analysis is proven wrong 5. Repeat until game ends
This thread just spawned the HD hatewagon. Do people dislike Husky in same manner too here in TL?
It was like that for Husky until everyone saw him cast at the TSL and respected his commentary a little more, but people are really picky when it comes to casters
People just like to jump on the hate train... once one or two prominent community members hate someone then everyone else just jumps on the bandwagon. It's also cool to hate things that are popular so a lot of people try and be cool that way too, since HD and Husky are very popular.
I personally don't get it, I mean people hate on HD and Husky for their game knowledge while at the same time lavishing praise on Wheat and TotalBiscuit, who's game knowledge is around the same level, if not much worse in the case of Biscuit.
In the end most people on TL don't have pro game knowledge enough to judge anyway and are just hating for the sake of hating, I even see people hating on PainUser for his game knowledge and this is a guy that plays at a pro level and took 3rd in an MLG.
On May 02 2011 09:45 Kojak21 wrote: how can people still call him ''eye-dra'', do they not no anything about him?
Because artosis has called him eye-dra for years, so those of us who are familiar with BW are used to calling him eye-dra, with a few exceptions of course.
So much bitching about hd in this thread. What the fuck? You couldnt get away with this crap if it was kelly so why would you just talk shit about the casters instead of talking about the game.
The cast isnt that bad. I dont have my volume up high though
I think idras lost a bit of confidence in his zvp and if he allins again ill be a bit sad. At least there will be another bo5 for idra to show some better games if kiwi wins this.
Why the hell are casters the most talked about thing nowadays? Seriously, ever single fucking live report thread has like 75% of people talking about the casters. If you don't like it, mute. Nobody is forcing you to listen to it. I don't remember this much caster hate last year, but for some reason, ever since a few months ago people have been ragging on casters constantly. It's not really that big of a deal, get over it.
Anyone else notice the irony that in this thread so many people are bagging out the casting, but when HD mentioned Idra was playing badly "OMG SHOW RESPECT"! Yes the casters should never say anything mean about anyone and forum goers should spend all day ripping players and casters new ones.
On May 02 2011 09:47 T0fuuu wrote: So much bitching about hd in this thread. What the fuck? You couldnt get away with this crap if it was kelly so why would you just talk shit about the casters instead of talking about the game.
The cast isnt that bad. I dont have my volume up high though
I think idras lost a bit of confidence in his zvp and if he allins again ill be a bit sad. At least there will be another bo5 for idra to show some better games if kiwi wins this.
lol more hate than live reporting.
just macroing and a little pressure by protoss if anyone's interested
Ih-dra may sound stupider than Eye-dra, but he based it off some Hindu deity. So it's not like he just randomly created a word and decided "I want it pronounced this way".
On May 02 2011 09:45 Kojak21 wrote: how can people still call him ''eye-dra'', do they not no anything about him?
That's how you're supposed to say it. That's how Artosis says it.
Actually "eye-dra" really ISN'T the right way. But the story goes that Artosis didn't know that, so he kept casting the games saying his name wrong, and now he's too stuck in his ways (and there's an element of the comical in his refusal to change), so Artosis just keeps on calling him the wrong name.
Idra's said in interviews that he's pretty much given up on correcting people, so I guess he really doesn't care anymore. Personally I think "eye-dra" sounds cooler :p
edit: Plus it works better with the whole Idralisk nickname ha
On May 02 2011 09:45 Kojak21 wrote: how can people still call him ''eye-dra'', do they not no anything about him?
That's how you're supposed to say it. That's how Artosis says it.
Jokes aside, I find it baffling how many people have trouble fixing the way they pronounce things. It's not at all hard, even if you're gotten used to the wrong way, I've done it with tons of words.
The one where I refuse to change is NonY because in no way, shape, or form does that spell "Noony" and the only two people I hear pronouncing it correctly consistently are Tyler himself, and Chill.
On May 02 2011 09:41 Exley wrote: Why do people think Husky/HD "lack game knowledge." What does that even mean?
Maybe because Idra did a standard speedling opening into hatch on 21 and he was like OHHHHHH MY GODDD HES GOING ALL IN AGAINNNNNNNNNNNNNNNN before he put his hatch down? When it's STANDARD PLAY?
On May 02 2011 09:44 hinnolinn wrote: Not personally commenting on balance, but I believe a lot of zerg are starting to feel that all-in vs protoss is a better chance then long macro games.
What zerg's are learning is that you can't fight the late game protoss army with a roach based army. They're too supply inefficient and forcefields + aoe tear them apart. Roaches are certainly very good in the mid game particularly if the zerg can overwhelm and most zerg's upgrade them and then get caught in a trap where they're stuck on that tech path.
Mass ling baneling with infestor/muta into fairly fast tier 3 is probably the future of the matchup (similar to what spanishiwa usually does and we've seen Losira try it as well with mixed results). Obviously it's still developing though.
On May 02 2011 09:48 Koshi wrote: Ohhhhh. I missed this completely.. Damned.
How were the first 3 games?
Game 1: Idra all inned on Xel naga and failed Game 2: Idra all inned on Tal'darim and failed but it ended up being a 20 min macro game with kiwi winning Game 3: Idra all inned on Shattered Temple and won
On May 02 2011 09:44 MYM.ClouD wrote: I don't think you can compare Husky with HD. Husky is about 10 times as good.
/Agree. I actually enjoyed Husky's casting A LOT at TSL/recent (Although I don't really like his youtube), because he doesn't put out an arrogant/overconfident sub-tone so to speak, he knows hes not fantastic.
Hate on HD all you want, but his casts are what got me to watch (and play) SC2 to start with. I don't follow his youtube any more, but he's good at what his does for a newbie audience. IGNs choice to use him is excellent, and I hope they ignore the hate on the live threads.
On May 02 2011 09:48 Koshi wrote: Ohhhhh. I missed this completely.. Damned.
How were the first 3 games?
Game 1: Idra all inned on Xel naga and failed Game 2: Idra all inned on Tal'darim and failed but it ended up being a 20 min macro game with kiwi winning Game 3: Idra all inned on Shattered Temple and won
Game 4 inc ^^
i dont think he all inned on xelnaga, it was a push in which he just lost way too much
On May 02 2011 09:49 sicajung wrote: wow. those who are bashing HD, chill out guys. Perhaps OP is HD. Alex.IGN. HD's name is alex. give that guy a breather.
On May 02 2011 09:51 ArghUScaredMe wrote: Can we stop talking about how to say Idra's name? It's really pointless. At least whining about casters has some relevance.
It's related to the whining about casters because it's an(other) error they're making .
On May 02 2011 09:49 sicajung wrote: wow. those who are bashing HD, chill out guys. Perhaps OP is HD. Alex.IGN. HD's name is alex. give that guy a breather.
alex is a redditer and was on sotg Hes not HD don't be stupid.
Idra is a name already, for the ladies, and can be pronounced either way, means fig tree.
IdrA took the work Indrajit. Removed the n and the jit. To make IdrA, so you can't really blame anyone for pronouncing it how the word Idra can be pronounced, instead of how a contraction of Indrajit would be pronounced. If I take the name Dravid (pronounced Draa-vid) and Spell it David (Pronounced Day-vid) I can't expect everyone to pronouce it Daa-vid can I.
idk bout the "Sauron zerg" comment by HD, this nothing like real sauron zerg yo (not a bash of HD mods, dont worry :D, casters are doing a really good job!)
I'm amazed IdrA didn't completely go on tilt after going down 0-2. An incredibly played game considering the circumstances, especially considering that it's IdrA we're talking about.
Much more entertaining game! Idra looked pretty sick right there, I really like what the casters mentioned about Idra dropping around multiple locations and not letting KiwiKaki macro up a ball of death. Obviously Idra learned from his series against CrunCher in the TSL :p
I specifically remember Alex saying yesterday "NO WAY" is there extended series, but idra only needs to win one series whereas kiwikaki needs to win two? Am I misunderstanding something or...?
On May 02 2011 10:00 Bowdy wrote: I specifically remember Alex saying yesterday "NO WAY" is there extended series, but idra only needs to win one series whereas kiwikaki needs to win two? Am I misunderstanding something or...?
Probably because Idra beat kiwikaki already and kiwikaki came from the loser's bracket to the finals so he has to win 2 bo5
I understand that everyone has their own taste in casters, and Wheat, HD, and TotalBiscuit are great for the new faces tuning in to watch SC2 for the first time, but I would like to see some different casters for season 2 of the IPL.
I do like the player announcer but perhaps a much better move would of been an announcer with a distinct American or British announcer. I could see the Total Biscuit doing the job for announcing or somebody with a strong distinct accent.
On May 02 2011 10:00 Bowdy wrote: I specifically remember Alex saying yesterday "NO WAY" is there extended series, but idra only needs to win one series whereas kiwikaki needs to win two? Am I misunderstanding something or...?
Probably because Idra beat kiwikaki already and kiwikaki came from the loser's bracket to the finals so he has to win 2 bo5
right... which is basically how extended series works.
On May 02 2011 10:00 Bowdy wrote: I specifically remember Alex saying yesterday "NO WAY" is there extended series, but idra only needs to win one series whereas kiwikaki needs to win two? Am I misunderstanding something or...?
It's double elimination. You have to lose two matches to get knocked out. IdrA is undefeated so far, And Kiwi has already lost once (to IdrA in fact).
So IdrA has to lose twice in order to get knocked out.
On May 02 2011 10:00 Bowdy wrote: I specifically remember Alex saying yesterday "NO WAY" is there extended series, but idra only needs to win one series whereas kiwikaki needs to win two? Am I misunderstanding something or...?
Yeah, that's not what extended series is. This is just standard double elimination. Lots of illuminating comments being made tonight about why the extended series debate was so messed up: tons of people just had no idea what it was or how double elimination normally works.
On May 02 2011 10:00 Bowdy wrote: I specifically remember Alex saying yesterday "NO WAY" is there extended series, but idra only needs to win one series whereas kiwikaki needs to win two? Am I misunderstanding something or...?
Extended series is where they keep the previous record and continue to play based on that.
This is double elimination, where loser has to win twice, winner only has to win once.
Holy balls, I still can't get over the macro and multitasking Idra displayed last game. I am going to have to copy that for my own play because it was so so impressive.
On May 02 2011 09:58 Ozell wrote: Looks like Idra Learned from that Cruncher game
New map. Protoss can't take his third in between the rocks as easily now. He has to take that exposed one tucked away in the corner.
That game was played on the same version as the Cruncher game. Kiwi just didn't abuse the map to get that 3rd so fast. Cruncher's PvZ may be the most boring thing to watch ever, but he is FANTASTIC at using the architecture of the map to his advantage.
On May 02 2011 09:39 hugman wrote: Zergs seem to be all-inning sooo much in ZvP nowadays. The matchup is degenerating
Consider about 2 months ago when terrans only did all-ins against zerg, and everybody was like "OMG MATCHUP DEGENERATING", but with no actual balance changes , the matchup evolved (regenerated?) into one of the most interesting, dynamic ones.
Terran rushes got nerfed to HELL. I don't know what you are talking about lol.
Not only was every close position map removed, but bunkers take +5-10 seconds than before to make, cannot block ramps, etc.
I think what summarised it for me was this post. For quite a while Terran players were despairing at being unable to keep up with Zerg economy; now the matchups are fairly even in economy (assuming the Terran applies some pressure) or harass, and we often see lategame situations that are at least sensible (i.e. if both players have 200/200, one of them hasn't lost).
On the other hand, Zerg can't push its economic plays any further against an economically focused Protoss - we've seen the results of that. So I'm just as worried as the poster I link to, that the state of ZvP really will be stuck on 1 or 2-base all-in attacks from Zerg. See e.g. Idra, Morrow, Dimaga, July, Losira.
On May 02 2011 10:00 Bowdy wrote: I specifically remember Alex saying yesterday "NO WAY" is there extended series, but idra only needs to win one series whereas kiwikaki needs to win two? Am I misunderstanding something or...?
Probably because Idra beat kiwikaki already and kiwikaki came from the loser's bracket to the finals so he has to win 2 bo5
right... which is basically how extended series works.
No extended series would mean the wins/losses carry over from the previous matches, this is just standard double elimination for the person coming up from the losers bracket.
I can't believe someone with a IGN tag spoiled this series in the chat. They basically ruined the entire event for people who didn't know and it's disappointing to say the least.
I think Idra will do a hydra-doom drop on this map. He has done it before and since you cant really prevent the protoss from getting 3 bases he prolly wants to end it early.
That was just a perfect display of dismantling the "turtle" Protoss style. Denying that 3rd, hit and running, engaging to trade evenly when you can, and just chipping away at the economy of the Protoss. I love it
On May 02 2011 10:00 Bowdy wrote: I specifically remember Alex saying yesterday "NO WAY" is there extended series, but idra only needs to win one series whereas kiwikaki needs to win two? Am I misunderstanding something or...?
Probably because Idra beat kiwikaki already and kiwikaki came from the loser's bracket to the finals so he has to win 2 bo5
right... which is basically how extended series works.
You're getting confused because IdrA was the one who knocked Kiwi into the Loser's bracket; say it was Select (winners bracket) vs Kiwikaki (Losers), Kiwi would still have to win TWO Bo5s even though IdrA knocked Kiwi into the loser's bracket
On May 02 2011 10:00 Bowdy wrote: I specifically remember Alex saying yesterday "NO WAY" is there extended series, but idra only needs to win one series whereas kiwikaki needs to win two? Am I misunderstanding something or...?
Probably because Idra beat kiwikaki already and kiwikaki came from the loser's bracket to the finals so he has to win 2 bo5
right... which is basically how extended series works.
No, it is how Dual elimination works, extended series gives a larger advantage in the finals AND any loser bracket match where the players have already met. Not the same at all, stop spewing nonsense.
On May 02 2011 10:00 Bowdy wrote: I specifically remember Alex saying yesterday "NO WAY" is there extended series, but idra only needs to win one series whereas kiwikaki needs to win two? Am I misunderstanding something or...?
Probably because Idra beat kiwikaki already and kiwikaki came from the loser's bracket to the finals so he has to win 2 bo5
right... which is basically how extended series works.
Nope. Extended series only applies to players who have met before. This is normal double elimination format. Regardless of whether WB winner and LB winner have met before, the WB winner will still have 1 bo3 advantage.
Let's say it was axslav and not kiwi who won Lower Bracket. Idra will still have the 1 BO3 advantage despite idra and axslav nt having met before.
Man, spoilers right in the thread title? Really? I literally was looking for the last thread to find the link to the videos so that I could watch Idra vs Select. Then I see this. That's great. I s'pose that is what I get for being lazy? Still, though, man. Not cool.
Chat moderation needs to be a little bit more harsh. 1% of the people watching the stream spam chat every minute when slow mode is up. I am tired of seeing the chat propagate unwarranted caster hate. The emoticons are getting pretty old too. Please perma ban everyone that does this.
The only bad thing about that is that a ban from the chat room does not only prevent one from posting, but also from viewing chat. Some people really like viewing chat, and it is a privilege that shouldn't be taken away.
On May 02 2011 10:00 Bowdy wrote: I specifically remember Alex saying yesterday "NO WAY" is there extended series, but idra only needs to win one series whereas kiwikaki needs to win two? Am I misunderstanding something or...?
Probably because Idra beat kiwikaki already and kiwikaki came from the loser's bracket to the finals so he has to win 2 bo5
right... which is basically how extended series works.
Nope, this is how double elimination works.
Extended series = Idra beat kiwi 3-0 earliar so Kiwi would have to beat Idra 6 times while Idra would have to beat Kiwi 3 times. Following which, if Kiwi wins, there would be another extension as it's double elimination as well.
Dang, Kiwi losing all his initial force trying to harass the 14 hatch. Now in a very poor position going into the midgame. Idra taking 3rd just after the nat goes down for Kiwi.
On May 02 2011 10:00 Bowdy wrote: I specifically remember Alex saying yesterday "NO WAY" is there extended series, but idra only needs to win one series whereas kiwikaki needs to win two? Am I misunderstanding something or...?
You've confused extended series with how EVERY double elimination finals works.
On May 02 2011 10:00 Bowdy wrote: I specifically remember Alex saying yesterday "NO WAY" is there extended series, but idra only needs to win one series whereas kiwikaki needs to win two? Am I misunderstanding something or...?
I believe extended series refers to when, say since Idra beat KiwiKaki 2-0 before, then he would go into the finals with a 2-0 lead in a bo5 or 7 or w/e. On the other hand, if he had only beat KiwiKaki 2-1 or something then KiwiKaki would go into the bo7 down 2-1, etc.
I believe it was MLG that uses extended series. It's kind of a wonky way of doing things, and it really seemed to bother a lot of people.
On May 02 2011 10:00 Bowdy wrote: I specifically remember Alex saying yesterday "NO WAY" is there extended series, but idra only needs to win one series whereas kiwikaki needs to win two? Am I misunderstanding something or...?
I believe extended series refers to when, say since Idra beat KiwiKaki 2-0 before, then he would go into the finals with a 2-0 lead in a bo5 or 7 or w/e. On the other hand, if he had only beat KiwiKaki 2-1 or something then KiwiKaki would go into the bo7 down 2-1, etc.
I believe it was MLG that uses extended series. It's kind of a wonky way of doing things, and it really seemed to bother a lot of people.
At this point, I'm starting to wonder how many other people who were anti-extended series are actually just anti-double elimination...
OK I got it! I was indeed confused because it was kiwikaki vs idra again, I see my mistake and don't need anymore people explaining it to me Especially not some asshole accusing me of "spouting nonsense" for asking a legitimate question thanks.
Kiwikaki getting that 3rd really late.. and now IdrA is looking like Fruitdealer ala Season 1 with that mass t2 upgrades getting all the tech up while droning then unleashing.
It's so hard to tell when the tide of the game turns. ZvP is kind of irritating to watch. It's just "did he put the forcefields in the right place or not."
attack at 160 instead of 200 supply onto creep... why do they ALL do this...
Because it was a weak moment for Idra, he just did a failed drop and lost a ton of units.
Unfortunately, Protoss can't fight toe-to-toe with Zerg mid game without forcefields, Kiwikaki had all his sentries sniped and that last engagement went down hill
That was a bit of a haphazard attack, trying to find a unique timing I guess, but he was too late, IdrA already was fully droned up and watching his macro is ridiculous. His gas was barely tapering over 50, and he was at 1800 minerals. Pretty much GG from here on, KiWi will have to pull a miracle move.
IdrA is so amazing in these positions where players are actually limited by their speed and mechanical ability. I do love when games get to this point.
The Sauron Zerg references seem inappropriate. From what I understand, selecting all your hatcheries, holding a single key, and setting a single rally isn't anywhere near as impressive as I hear it was managing a ton of hatcheries in Brood War.
I mean, dropping the reference is sexy and all, but it almost seems like an insult to the few that could do it in Brood War.
On May 02 2011 10:15 Klonere wrote: oh cool Brood Lor-
*all get sniped by Stalkers*
BUILD T3 THEY SAID
No different to Colossus, Carriers, Battlecruisiers, Thors (in small numbers past midgame) or Templar. IF you don't have anything to back them up they die just as fast
Idra showing really strong ZvP right here, this playstyle is definitely the answer to Protoss deathball. But Kiwikaki's decision making was... meh. He played wayyyyy to passively and expanded at weird timings.
Also not surprised with the results considering the whole tournament was spoiled a long time ago.
Idra looked sick in those last two games. It's nice to see him get another big win under his belt after having a bit of a dry spell. I say that only because I think he really deserves it.
Idra wasn't the only one grabbing his male genitals that game ಠ_ಠ. WOOO goo idra!!!
--on a sidenote, HD has gotten a lot better at casting. I was wondering how he'd do but he seems to have lost the "fake radio voice" that it felt like he used to push in his casts. He's sounding a lot more natural. Great casting all around.
Fantastic from Idra. Yes, this tournament is nowhere near as deep as others, but I think this will give Idra a well deserved, and much needed boost in confidence.
It's amazing to see how much room for improvement there is in SC2, Idra was macroing/microing circles around Kiwi with the drops and the drops themselves were generally un-microed.
That game was over when KiWi lost his Colossi outside IdrA's natural. He didn't have a proxy pylon to reinforce so he needed to back off before IdrA's eggs hatched, but instead he stayed and lost all his shit in a non-cost effective way. You can't park yourself outside someone's nat if you don't have warpins ready.
gratz to idra, gotta give it to him. Barring those first two games, he played well, and I felt like kiwi was just playing into idra's hands when he got two up.
On May 02 2011 10:15 Klonere wrote: oh cool Brood Lor-
*all get sniped by Stalkers*
BUILD T3 THEY SAID
No different to Colossus, Carriers, Battlecruisiers, Thors (in small numbers past midgame) or Templar. IF you don't have anything to back them up they die just as fast
Only if they had beta Twilight Carriers with anti-STA shields...
Wow, it seems a very good decision to leave Korea by Idra now all of a sudden. He was not earning much at all there, here, he already has decent amount in his pocket. Well done, very good games.
His drops did nothing. Getting 5 bases and keeping kiwi off a 4th won him the game.
After the drops failed, kiwi a-moved his army into idras creep and lost all his stalkers/colossus to roach hydra, and was in a basically un-winnable position from there. After losing so many units he could not defend all his bases, but that was his fault for attacking too early and not idra baiting it.
On May 02 2011 10:15 Staboteur wrote: The Sauron Zerg references seem inappropriate. From what I understand, selecting all your hatcheries, holding a single key, and setting a single rally isn't anywhere near as impressive as I hear it was managing a ton of hatcheries in Brood War.
I mean, dropping the reference is sexy and all, but it almost seems like an insult to the few that could do it in Brood War.
Yeah rallying in Roaches from 4 hatches on 4 bases is in no way comparable to Sauron Zerg. Unfortunately casters and fans alike have referred to just about every situation where the Zerg has a bunch of reinforcements rallied in the general direction of his opponent as "Sauron Zerg" since about 2005.
For further reading see "Building a pylon at your natural = Bisu build" and "I saw a Goliath! = Fantasy build"
I'm quite impressed by Idra's play. He used to be so boring and conservative in his play. Those last 2 games make me remember of Mondragon's ZvP in the TSL and that's quite a compliment .! Gj Idra
His drops did nothing. Getting 5 bases and keeping kiwi off a 4th won him the game.
After the drops failed, kiwi a-moved his army into idras creep and lost all his stalkers/colossus to roach hydra, and was in a basically un-winnable position from there. After losing so many units he could not defend all his bases, but that was his fault for attacking too early and not idra baiting it.
Ya, I think I would have liked a winner's interview. I mean, IdrA's pretty involved in the community, so you'd think he'd be totally up to a short interview. In any case, wonderful tournament and all the props in the world to IdrA!!
His drops did nothing. Getting 5 bases and keeping kiwi off a 4th won him the game.
After the drops failed, kiwi a-moved his army into idras creep and lost all his stalkers/colossus to roach hydra, and was in a basically un-winnable position from there. After losing so many units he could not defend all his bases, but that was his fault for attacking too early and not idra baiting it.
Maybe the last game, but the drops basically won him the game on shakuras.
His drops did nothing. Getting 5 bases and keeping kiwi off a 4th won him the game.
After the drops failed, kiwi a-moved his army into idras creep and lost all his stalkers/colossus to roach hydra, and was in a basically un-winnable position from there. After losing so many units he could not defend all his bases, but that was his fault for attacking too early and not idra baiting it.
His drops did nothing? Did you watch these games?
Obviously I meant game 5, where they in fact, did nothing.
On May 02 2011 10:17 LEEKsc wrote: highest apm ive seen coming out of idra in SC2, just showing whats doable with Z!
They've changed the APM into real APM and not sc2 apm, or that's what seems logical over the past few days of games that I've seen aswell as when they put up the average apm tabs in game 3 u could see it was average about 180 sc2 before game ended then average was shown as something around 250.
Wish we could've had an interview with idra, but lovely tournament thank you so much!
?? Why the InControl interview? Why not Idra? I don't get it ign :p
Btw great tournament! I loved the style and presentation of the whole thing. As many people have said the only REAL downside was the player pool, but I think it was mainly such a small pool because this was a bit of a test run?
His drops did nothing. Getting 5 bases and keeping kiwi off a 4th won him the game.
After the drops failed, kiwi a-moved his army into idras creep and lost all his stalkers/colossus to roach hydra, and was in a basically un-winnable position from there. After losing so many units he could not defend all his bases, but that was his fault for attacking too early and not idra baiting it.
His drops did nothing? Did you watch these games?
Obviously I meant game 5, where they in fact, did nothing.
On May 02 2011 10:15 Staboteur wrote: The Sauron Zerg references seem inappropriate. From what I understand, selecting all your hatcheries, holding a single key, and setting a single rally isn't anywhere near as impressive as I hear it was managing a ton of hatcheries in Brood War.
I mean, dropping the reference is sexy and all, but it almost seems like an insult to the few that could do it in Brood War.
Yeah rallying in Roaches from 4 hatches on 4 bases is in no way comparable to Sauron Zerg. Unfortunately casters and fans alike have referred to just about every situation where the Zerg has a bunch of reinforcements rallied in the general direction of his opponent as "Sauron Zerg" since about 2005.
For further reading see "Building a pylon at your natural = Bisu build" and "I saw a Goliath! = Fantasy build"
Lol, I remember when every fast-expand was a Bisu build <3
His drops did nothing. Getting 5 bases and keeping kiwi off a 4th won him the game.
After the drops failed, kiwi a-moved his army into idras creep and lost all his stalkers/colossus to roach hydra, and was in a basically un-winnable position from there. After losing so many units he could not defend all his bases, but that was his fault for attacking too early and not idra baiting it.
His drops did nothing? Did you watch these games?
Did you? They didn't do crap in game 5. That was Kiwikaki's game to win until he decided to throw his army at Idra's fourth after losing every single sentry
Absolutely dominant play by IdrA (after the first two games). He was playing so beastly in this entire tournament. It seems like he might have figured out a style of ZvP that he's comfortable with. I'm excited to see more of this level of play from him in the future.
His drops did nothing. Getting 5 bases and keeping kiwi off a 4th won him the game.
After the drops failed, kiwi a-moved his army into idras creep and lost all his stalkers/colossus to roach hydra, and was in a basically un-winnable position from there. After losing so many units he could not defend all his bases, but that was his fault for attacking too early and not idra baiting it.
His drops did nothing? Did you watch these games?
Obviously I meant game 5, where they in fact, did nothing.
They did, people really underestimate the effects drops have and how they can split an already very immobile protoss army and keep them defensive/make them invest in more static defence.
His drops did nothing. Getting 5 bases and keeping kiwi off a 4th won him the game.
After the drops failed, kiwi a-moved his army into idras creep and lost all his stalkers/colossus to roach hydra, and was in a basically un-winnable position from there. After losing so many units he could not defend all his bases, but that was his fault for attacking too early and not idra baiting it.
His drops did nothing? Did you watch these games?
His drops did "nothing" in a straight-up sense; he may have forced Kiwikaki to shuffle his army around for a bit, but his roach v stalker trades were never efficient, he didn't delay mining time, he didn't snipe any tech or production buildings, etc.
What his drops did do was give him map control - IdrA took a very fast 3rd and 4th off of a hatch-first build, his drop tech made Kiwi stay in his base, and so he able to easily overpower Kiwi lategame.
His drops did nothing. Getting 5 bases and keeping kiwi off a 4th won him the game.
After the drops failed, kiwi a-moved his army into idras creep and lost all his stalkers/colossus to roach hydra, and was in a basically un-winnable position from there. After losing so many units he could not defend all his bases, but that was his fault for attacking too early and not idra baiting it.
His drops did nothing? Did you watch these games?
Did you? They didn't do crap in game 5. That was Kiwikaki's game to win until he decided to throw his army at Idra's fourth after losing every single sentry
Doesnt matter if his drops didnt kill much, it gave him map control so he could mass hatcheries.
His drops did nothing. Getting 5 bases and keeping kiwi off a 4th won him the game.
After the drops failed, kiwi a-moved his army into idras creep and lost all his stalkers/colossus to roach hydra, and was in a basically un-winnable position from there. After losing so many units he could not defend all his bases, but that was his fault for attacking too early and not idra baiting it.
His drops delayed pushes and forced warp-ins.
It works much the same as Protoss forcing units against Zerg months ago, except now it is the Zerg doing it, Kiwi had to always make units to keep up otherwise he would die or lose too many probes, he totally had the eco to go double robo and upgrades but IdrA just wouldn't let down. Kiwikaki just needs more practice against that style to get use to dealing resource distrobution when under constant pressure.
The "a-move" into creep was hardly a "a-move", he hit at the moment where IdrA lost like 20 pop to forcefields, downside was Kiwi never had the eco to get anymore sentries and drops in his base were forcing warp-ins there, his main army wasn't getting reinforced and he had no forcefields to stop the Hydra spam defense from Idra
His drops did nothing. Getting 5 bases and keeping kiwi off a 4th won him the game.
After the drops failed, kiwi a-moved his army into idras creep and lost all his stalkers/colossus to roach hydra, and was in a basically un-winnable position from there. After losing so many units he could not defend all his bases, but that was his fault for attacking too early and not idra baiting it.
His drops did nothing? Did you watch these games?
Obviously I meant game 5, where they in fact, did nothing.
They didn't do much material damage, but they did force kiwi to run between his bases defend them, making his 4th expos undefended and kept him from moving out with a deathball.
Was really impressed with Idra's play in those last two games he really showed that he is a top class player. He seemed in complete control of those (last two) games with his impeccable macro and mechanics. It was a great use of that Broodwar style of zerg that has been spoken about, none of this ball vs ball rubbish. Drops, mass expansions and attacking multiple points on the map. Idra has it down pat atm.
His drops did nothing. Getting 5 bases and keeping kiwi off a 4th won him the game.
After the drops failed, kiwi a-moved his army into idras creep and lost all his stalkers/colossus to roach hydra, and was in a basically un-winnable position from there. After losing so many units he could not defend all his bases, but that was his fault for attacking too early and not idra baiting it.
His drops did nothing? Did you watch these games?
Obviously I meant game 5, where they in fact, did nothing.
They didn't do much material damage, but they did force kiwi to run between his bases defend them, making his 4th expos undefended and kept him from moving out with a deathball.
Kiwi DID move out though, his critical mistake that game. Losing that battle lost him the game, after that idra just rallied to kiwis base. A protoss can make their deathball on 3 bases, and idra at no point that game traded until the big battle. He just decided to attack too early for whatever reason onto creep.
His drops did nothing. Getting 5 bases and keeping kiwi off a 4th won him the game.
After the drops failed, kiwi a-moved his army into idras creep and lost all his stalkers/colossus to roach hydra, and was in a basically un-winnable position from there. After losing so many units he could not defend all his bases, but that was his fault for attacking too early and not idra baiting it.
The drops didn't fail at all, they put pressure on the protoss so Idra can tech to broodlords.
His drops did nothing. Getting 5 bases and keeping kiwi off a 4th won him the game.
After the drops failed, kiwi a-moved his army into idras creep and lost all his stalkers/colossus to roach hydra, and was in a basically un-winnable position from there. After losing so many units he could not defend all his bases, but that was his fault for attacking too early and not idra baiting it.
His drops delayed pushes and forced warp-ins.
It works much the same as Protoss forcing units against Zerg months ago, except now it is the Zerg doing it, Kiwi had to always make units to keep up otherwise he would die or lose too many probes, he totally had the eco to go double robo and upgrades but IdrA just wouldn't let down. Kiwikaki just needs more practice against that style to get use to dealing resource distrobution when under constant pressure.
The "a-move" into creep was hardly a "a-move", he hit at the moment where IdrA lost like 20 pop to forcefields, downside was Kiwi never had the eco to get anymore sentries and drops in his base were forcing warp-ins there, his main army wasn't getting reinforced and he had no forcefields to stop the Hydra spam defense from Idra
He couldn't reinforce his army anyway because as far as I could tell he didn't even have a pylon up there. Game 4 IdrA definitely won through his aggressive play, but Game 5 KiWi lost by pretty much throwing his army away. If you want to say that the drops affected his decision making then fine, whatever, we can't know that, but the game had one deciding moment and it wasn't a drop by IdrA.
KiWi was actually pretty much even in supply with IdrA at about the 160 food mark, and that was after IdrA had done his droppage. He was actually looking really good before he screwed up.
Thanks for tuning in and supporting us throughout the season. We look forward to bringing you a great Season 2, and will be announcing details about both the main event and the qualifiers soon! Thanks again for all of great feedback and support everyone has given us!
Terminus is probably the worst map possible for what KiWi did too. On other maps you can cut off reinforcements as they trickle in, but on Terminus you only have a single choke for all three of your bases.
His drops did nothing. Getting 5 bases and keeping kiwi off a 4th won him the game.
After the drops failed, kiwi a-moved his army into idras creep and lost all his stalkers/colossus to roach hydra, and was in a basically un-winnable position from there. After losing so many units he could not defend all his bases, but that was his fault for attacking too early and not idra baiting it.
His drops did nothing? Did you watch these games?
No he's right here. What he's specifically talking about is that first drop. Getting drop that early is a pretty big investment. Kiwikaki defended exactly how you're supposed to defend. With cannons. And split forces. One cannon will make it hard to drop, two cannons will make it super hard to drop. The only thing that Idra could've done better there is attack with his main army through the middle and attacking and pulling the toss forces.
What really won Idra the game was Kiwi's failed counter push into Idra's nat. I mean he lost 2 collosus and his entire army, (and his forth) which allowed Idra to do that doom drop. Just think about it, if Kiwi had turtled around his 4th and just maxed out, it would've been a lot smarter. At that point Idra can't drop because of the 2+ cannons at each mineral line. One thing he might've been able to do is dance around with 4+4 hydra drops. This strategy is a lot more fragile than it looks. Many zergs have been doing this style for a while.
His drops did nothing. Getting 5 bases and keeping kiwi off a 4th won him the game.
After the drops failed, kiwi a-moved his army into idras creep and lost all his stalkers/colossus to roach hydra, and was in a basically un-winnable position from there. After losing so many units he could not defend all his bases, but that was his fault for attacking too early and not idra baiting it.
His drops did nothing? Did you watch these games?
His drops did "nothing" in a straight-up sense; he may have forced Kiwikaki to shuffle his army around for a bit, but his roach v stalker trades were never efficient, he didn't delay mining time, he didn't snipe any tech or production buildings, etc.
What his drops did do was give him map control - IdrA took a very fast 3rd and 4th off of a hatch-first build, his drop tech made Kiwi stay in his base, and so he able to easily overpower Kiwi lategame.
Protoss gateway units are horribly inefficient in small numbers and without their crutches (sentries, colossus, etc.). If you drop in 4 hydras and you warp in 5 stalkers, you can't defend it very well. You have to have more than the drop to deal with it. Or cannons all over. I really don't know. As a protoss player, drops are super annoying to deal with and we've been dealing with it vs terran since ever? You either play super defensive and do a death push or defend well enough that you can hopefully crush your opponent in a counter-timing push or know that you can win a base trade if your opponent plays the "you move out; I drop your base" card.
On May 02 2011 10:29 Alex.IGN wrote: Thanks for tuning in and supporting us throughout the season. We look forward to bringing you a great Season 2, and will be announcing details about both the main event and the qualifiers soon! Thanks again for all of great feedback and support everyone has given us!
Are you allowed to give us any word on how IGN felt about the results/attention their tournament got, in relation to how much they're going to get into season 2/re-invest into their eSports venture. I'm wondering because this did seem somewhat like a trial run (and the best produced tourney I've seen since GSL ) since it wasn't heavily advertised at all really on IGN's main site (no headline article at least or much hype; I visit IGN a lot so that's sort why I'm so curious about the IGN perspective on the tournament).
His drops did nothing. Getting 5 bases and keeping kiwi off a 4th won him the game.
After the drops failed, kiwi a-moved his army into idras creep and lost all his stalkers/colossus to roach hydra, and was in a basically un-winnable position from there. After losing so many units he could not defend all his bases, but that was his fault for attacking too early and not idra baiting it.
His drops delayed pushes and forced warp-ins.
It works much the same as Protoss forcing units against Zerg months ago, except now it is the Zerg doing it, Kiwi had to always make units to keep up otherwise he would die or lose too many probes, he totally had the eco to go double robo and upgrades but IdrA just wouldn't let down. Kiwikaki just needs more practice against that style to get use to dealing resource distrobution when under constant pressure.
The "a-move" into creep was hardly a "a-move", he hit at the moment where IdrA lost like 20 pop to forcefields, downside was Kiwi never had the eco to get anymore sentries and drops in his base were forcing warp-ins there, his main army wasn't getting reinforced and he had no forcefields to stop the Hydra spam defense from Idra
He couldn't reinforce his army anyway because as far as I could tell he didn't even have a pylon up there. Game 4 IdrA definitely won through his aggressive play, but Game 5 KiWi lost by pretty much throwing his army away. If you want to say that the drops affected his decision making then fine, whatever, we can't know that, but the game had one deciding moment and it wasn't a drop by IdrA.
Kiwikaki was about to lose his support bay, he had to warpin 6 Stalkers then the ANOTHER warpin at his third to not lose probes down there. They may have looked worthelss but they did their job, Kiwikaki was down 9~ Gateway units in his push into creep, roughly 18food. That could have turned the tide or allowed him an easier escape. The drops were picking off probes mining gas and aiming for Gysers, IdrA must have cut his gas income by a third at least that game.
But above all, they were buying time. Idra hit 2-2 whilst Kiwikaki was at like 1-0, the constant drops and pressure are to force mistakes and improper resource management
His drops did nothing. Getting 5 bases and keeping kiwi off a 4th won him the game.
After the drops failed, kiwi a-moved his army into idras creep and lost all his stalkers/colossus to roach hydra, and was in a basically un-winnable position from there. After losing so many units he could not defend all his bases, but that was his fault for attacking too early and not idra baiting it.
His drops did nothing? Did you watch these games?
Obviously I meant game 5, where they in fact, did nothing.
They didn't do much material damage, but they did force kiwi to run between his bases defend them, making his 4th expos undefended and kept him from moving out with a deathball.
Kiwi DID move out though, his critical mistake that game. Losing that battle lost him the game, after that idra just rallied to kiwis base. A protoss can make their deathball on 3 bases, and idra at no point that game traded until the big battle. He just decided to attack too early for whatever reason onto creep.
The move-out was delayed because he had to defend the drops, weakened because he had to build cannons to defend against drops and cut from reinforcements because he had to use warp-in to defend against drops.
His drops did nothing. Getting 5 bases and keeping kiwi off a 4th won him the game.
After the drops failed, kiwi a-moved his army into idras creep and lost all his stalkers/colossus to roach hydra, and was in a basically un-winnable position from there. After losing so many units he could not defend all his bases, but that was his fault for attacking too early and not idra baiting it.
His drops delayed pushes and forced warp-ins.
It works much the same as Protoss forcing units against Zerg months ago, except now it is the Zerg doing it, Kiwi had to always make units to keep up otherwise he would die or lose too many probes, he totally had the eco to go double robo and upgrades but IdrA just wouldn't let down. Kiwikaki just needs more practice against that style to get use to dealing resource distrobution when under constant pressure.
The "a-move" into creep was hardly a "a-move", he hit at the moment where IdrA lost like 20 pop to forcefields, downside was Kiwi never had the eco to get anymore sentries and drops in his base were forcing warp-ins there, his main army wasn't getting reinforced and he had no forcefields to stop the Hydra spam defense from Idra
He couldn't reinforce his army anyway because as far as I could tell he didn't even have a pylon up there. Game 4 IdrA definitely won through his aggressive play, but Game 5 KiWi lost by pretty much throwing his army away. If you want to say that the drops affected his decision making then fine, whatever, we can't know that, but the game had one deciding moment and it wasn't a drop by IdrA.
Kiwikaki was about to lose his support bay, he had to warpin 6 Stalkers then the ANOTHER warpin at his third to not lose probes down there. They may have looked worthelss but they did their job, Kiwikaki was down 9~ Gateway units in his push into creep, roughly 18food. That could have turned the tide or allowed him an easier escape. The drops were picking off probes mining gas and aiming for Gysers, IdrA must have cut his gas income by a third at least that game
Yes, but first of all I don't think he had a pylon with the push, I didn't see it at least (I want to watch the VOD and confirm), so he overcommited in the first place. If he had a pylon but warped in everything at his base then he shouldn't have pushed. But he did push, killed a lot of stuff but had no reinforcements, so IdrA whittled down his gateway support. That is the worst possible thing for a Protoss. Before the push their supplys were about even but after the push KiWi was ridiculously far behind and the game was pretty much over.
I think IdrA played really well, but I don't think he won G5 because he picked apart KiWi with his drops, he won it because KiWi did a huge fuckup. It was an unforced error, whereas in Game 4 IdrA DID pick KiWi apart and really created the win himself.
Nice tourney IGN, although I feel you would have gotten even more enthusiasm and viewers in the last few days if the results weren't leaked :S. Knowing who won and wat the exact score was kinda killed it for me : (
THe important thing is that Idra is improving the metagame for ZvP. Beating convincigly such a high caliber Protoss player using this agro style will hopefully mean that Protoss players will need to play more honest and careful.
And I think the biggest change this will result in(as more Z players will try to be more bold with their attacks) is the change of mindset for Protoss players, which as of now IMHO is to
1. secure easy natural for the midgame -->the zerg cannot threaten me as he is droning 2. and the whole focus is on reaching for the 200/200 deatball that the zerg cannot beat no matter what
Generally speaking, the zerg is gonna be more threatening for P who just tries to go for the 200/200 deathball.
Really interesting meta-gaming by Idra in both the series against Select and against Kiwikaki. He was basically throwing away games to get the opponents to play into his style. Normally I would say you should play every game to win, but I can't disagree with the results. Once Idra was in the type of game he wanted, he looked completely untouchable. Those games where he won weren't even close. The risk seems to have paid off.
On May 02 2011 11:13 NewtofDoom wrote: Really interesting meta-gaming by Idra in both the series against Select and against Kiwikaki. He was basically throwing away games to get the opponents to play into his style. Normally I would say you should play every game to win, but I can't disagree with the results. Once Idra was in the type of game he wanted, he looked completely untouchable. Those games where he won weren't even close. The risk seems to have paid off.
You honestly think he was throwing games?
Why the fuck would IdrA throw games? He's good enough to beat his opponents and he knows it, he doesn't need any retarded mindgames.
On May 02 2011 10:44 Alex.IGN wrote: If you missed any games, Grand Finals VODs are up at http://www.ign.com/ipl/videos enjoy!
Not sure if anyone else has been having this problem, but a lot of times when I go to that page it doesn't find anything until I refresh it for a couple minutes, then when I try to load a game/series the box will come up with the gray loading bar and not load anything for another few minutes of refreshes. It's really nice how fast the VODs are uploaded though, even with a five minute or so delay on actually being able to watch them, it's still faster than other tournaments :D
On May 02 2011 10:44 Alex.IGN wrote: If you missed any games, Grand Finals VODs are up at http://www.ign.com/ipl/videos enjoy!
Not sure if anyone else has been having this problem, but a lot of times when I go to that page it doesn't find anything until I refresh it for a couple minutes, then when I try to load a game/series the box will come up with the gray loading bar and not load anything for another few minutes of refreshes. It's really nice how fast the VODs are uploaded though, even with a five minute or so delay on actually being able to watch them, it's still faster than other tournaments :D
This tournament was fantastic. From the graphics, to the presentation, to the execution, it was just all-around beautifully run. Congrats to IGN for hosting such a great tourny, I can't wait for season 2
On May 02 2011 11:13 NewtofDoom wrote: Really interesting meta-gaming by Idra in both the series against Select and against Kiwikaki. He was basically throwing away games to get the opponents to play into his style. Normally I would say you should play every game to win, but I can't disagree with the results. Once Idra was in the type of game he wanted, he looked completely untouchable. Those games where he won weren't even close. The risk seems to have paid off.
You honestly think he was throwing games?
Why the fuck would IdrA throw games? He's good enough to beat his opponents and he knows it, he doesn't need any retarded mindgames.
Considering his early game pressure fails basically every single time, do you really think he expects to win games with it? He's not an idiot. What is he trying to accomplish when he goes one-base roach all in? I'm sure if he killed someone that way he'd be perfectly happy to take the W, but I can't believe that's the primary goal. What it does do is force the opponent to play safe, so that when Idra does go for a macro game he can crush them.
On May 02 2011 12:28 Skroach wrote: Idra just been shredding lately. He's number 1 on NA ladder and been destroying people in this tournament. How did he suddenly get so good?
Idra has always been good. Only his mental state ever held him back from greatness. Hopefully he's reached some sort of epiphany when it comes to fighting protoss and it leads to greater success in larger tournaments in the future.
Idra has made me a fan. I'm incredibly impressed with how he took game 5s from both Select and Kiwikaki to win. It showed some real mental strength to be down 2-0, pull a roach/zergling bust in game 3 to win, and then come all the way back with nice macro/decision making.
Some things about Idra I hate, particularly the early gg's. I thought I'd never like Idra again after throwing the game to Huk at MLG Dallas.
But somehow, I keep finding myself cheering for him.
On May 02 2011 10:45 VoirDire wrote: How did the result leak btw? Anyone knows?
afaik they were played about a week after MLG and just on their normal accounts, so people looked at their account history and found out who won etc.
So happy IdrA won this!!!! zerg fighting!
The final brackets on Challonge were left up, I believe.
People could just go and look at them.
That is incorrect it was a private bracket. We are minimizing the amount of people who have access to the brackets for IPL 2.
Why not just use an internal bracket?
It's the same thing, if someone involved in the operation wants to leak it, it doesn't matter where it's actually stored. Like I have said, we are severely limiting access to the bracket for IPL 2 so there is no repeat of this.
Im so happy for Idra. Never the less... I must admit im disappointed with the first two games. Idra still has mental problems, where he never believes in Comebacks, because in his mind every decent player plays perfect all the time. Sad to see that. I hope InControl bashes this shit out of him in the future!
Well Ive said this a few times but I think when HD commentates a straight forward game hes pretty good. Easy to listen to and follow along. When he tries to be cute and a little bit more of an entertainer he becomes annoying. I like painuser a lot so far, he brings a cool perspective from a players standpoint. Would like to see more of painuser.
Awesome to see IdrA win this tournament! He seems to be on a tear since he was knocked out of the TSL. (Or were these games played around that time?) Either way great first season of the IPL.
Great tournament overall. Huge credit to the production team of IGN. Nice graphics, overlays etc. And as far as quality goes, its been amazing. Truly showing how beautiful the game really is and how it can be turned into a good spectator sport.
Awesome games by Idra this tournament. A very well deserved first place. He showed a lot of different styles and impressed me with most of his games.
As for the casters of the tournament, they've been "OK". I really wish for more double commentary rather then single casts. Casting games solo is incredibly difficult and is very stressful so hopefully IGN brings in more duos for the second season. DjWheat is probably one of the best (if not the best) co-caster out there. But in my opinion he doesn't get to the same high level in his solo casts.
My +++++: Goes to IGN production team! A very solid performance overall!
My - : Goes to HD. My God his jokes are very bad and often offensive. And I'm sorry to say that he almost ruined the finals with his commentary.
Just a heads up, game 4 of the grand finals needs to be re-edited, there's a cast attempt at the beginning that was interrupted by a private message, and they actually restart the cast at about 2:50 or so.
Also, congrats on the amazing presentation for this tourney!
I have to agree with the criticism of HD - i don't like his new "cool" way of casting. And what's with "molestored", "kenanigans", etc.? And the Boxer mind control reference...
Painuser is OK though.
I kinda regret seeing the spoiler prior to the tournament. I imagine what a basket case i'd have been at 2:2, not knowing the outcome of game 5 Anyway, i really enjoyed the games and hope to see more tournament wins from Idra. Hopefully NASL
The games were solid and I loved IdrA's drop style vP.
The camera work was alright, I guess, but drops were sometimes missed. I tried listening to commentary but there were some pretty bad jokes and the casters' analysis didn't really add anything to my game-viewing experience so I listened to music instead >.>.
Overall, the tournament was entertaining and fun to watch.
On May 02 2011 19:26 Psyclon wrote: I have to agree with the criticism of HD - i don't like his new "cool" way of casting. And what's with "molestored", "kenanigans", etc.? And the Boxer mind control reference...
Painuser is OK though.
I kinda regret seeing the spoiler prior to the tournament. I imagine what a basket case i'd have been at 2:2, not knowing the outcome of game 5 Anyway, i really enjoyed the games and hope to see more tournament wins from Idra. Hopefully NASL
I agree with your criticism about HD.
In regards to spoilers, it was spoiled on the IPL "spoiler free vod page."
Since the tournament was a double elimination, Idra had to lose two best of 5's to be eliminated, and there was only one set of 5 games up. So it was kind of obvious that Idra won. A fake set would need to be up, just like fake games need to be added in order to avoid a spoiler.
On May 02 2011 19:26 Psyclon wrote: I have to agree with the criticism of HD - i don't like his new "cool" way of casting. And what's with "molestored", "kenanigans", etc.? And the Boxer mind control reference...
Painuser is OK though.
I kinda regret seeing the spoiler prior to the tournament. I imagine what a basket case i'd have been at 2:2, not knowing the outcome of game 5 Anyway, i really enjoyed the games and hope to see more tournament wins from Idra. Hopefully NASL
I disagree with you all. I'm not a Ben Stein fan. I like a person to have some enthusiasm and personality, I know that can be pretty threatening to some people.
Jokes are a very subjective thing, I'll leave it that. And I have no idea how anyone got offended lol. I think all the caster did a great job and DJ Wheat needs to stop beating himself up on air; though, he does get distracted a bit too much, but it isn't a big deal.
hd did a fine job, if you cant understand the jokes hes making its normal because youre not that into starcraft or you have no sense of humor. Keep up the good job HD! great duo with painuser ftw.
Please stop calling all types of early aggression as "cheese". They are not the same. I expect that kind of talk from qq'ing silver league players. Professional casters should know better.
If a player scouts an opponent, sees a weakness, and then stops drone production to exploit the weakness with heavy aggression... THAT IS NOT CALLED CHEESE. It's called a proper strategic reaction. Cheese is when a player rolls the dice by blindly going all-in while having no idea what his opponent is doing.
On May 03 2011 14:50 cosmo.6792 wrote: Note to HD & Painuser:
Please stop calling all types of early aggression as "cheese". They are not the same. I expect that kind of talk from qq'ing silver league players. Professional casters should know better.
If a player scouts an opponent, sees a weakness, and then stops drone production to exploit the weakness with heavy aggression... THAT IS NOT CALLED CHEESE. It's called a proper strategic reaction. Cheese is when a player rolls the dice by blindly going all-in while having no idea what his opponent is doing.
6-pool = cheese.
3-roach rush = cheese.
Proxy Gateways = cheese.
Mass Roach vs a Fast Expand Protoss = Not cheese.
Mass roach/ling that early = an all in which can be seen as a cheese. It was an all in, Luckily for him he killed a lot of probes so he was able to not be as far behind as he should have been. If Kiwi had gotten those FF's before the lings could sneak through that game would have been alot more 1 sided.
On May 03 2011 14:50 cosmo.6792 wrote: Note to HD & Painuser:
Please stop calling all types of early aggression as "cheese". They are not the same. I expect that kind of talk from qq'ing silver league players. Professional casters should know better.
If a player scouts an opponent, sees a weakness, and then stops drone production to exploit the weakness with heavy aggression... THAT IS NOT CALLED CHEESE. It's called a proper strategic reaction. Cheese is when a player rolls the dice by blindly going all-in while having no idea what his opponent is doing.
6-pool = cheese.
3-roach rush = cheese.
Proxy Gateways = cheese.
Mass Roach vs a Fast Expand Protoss = Not cheese.
Mass roach/ling that early = an all in which can be seen as a cheese. It was an all in, Luckily for him he killed a lot of probes so he was able to not be as far behind as he should have been. If Kiwi had gotten those FF's before the lings could sneak through that game would have been alot more 1 sided.
no. Cheese is when some shit cheesey happens. Him reacting to a fast nexus it not cheesey at all. You get an unexpected 6 pool or 2 proxy gate are considered cheese. Not what idrA was doing.
On May 02 2011 12:28 Skroach wrote: Idra just been shredding lately. He's number 1 on NA ladder and been destroying people in this tournament. How did he suddenly get so good?
probably has machine and inka to calm him down.
he's also been mixing it up lately. seeing couple of cheese and all-ins from him now
just watched the finals from vods cuz i forgot when ipl finals were being streamed, and i must say idra's play was so good! gj to ipl, and to all the casters, hope ipl season 2 is better than an already awesome season 1 =D
Not "caster bashing", I was never much of a fan of HD, but for a grand finals I definitely think that he needed to bring a bigger level of excitement up. TotalBiscuit does a great job of this, his little intros to matches were always so epic, and even if he doesn't have the same level of analysis, it really seems like there's some serious business happening. HD casts as if he's casting some ladder match on his YouTube channel, instead of the grand finals of a major league he's hired to cast.
Great play by IdrA. I think that Game 4 was one of the best Zerg plays I've ever seen. It really feels like that style of play is how Zerg is meant to be played. After a bit of a slouch for a while, taking out the IPL as well as a 3-0 record in the NASL, IdrA can call out ROOT all he likes :D
KiWiKaKi played well though. I thought he'd go down to SeleCT for sure.
Just watched the VODs and the games were great. IdrA has really morphed out of his former 1-dimensional (but still scary) self into an unpredictable, ruthless strategist. I mildly entertain the idea that all the early gg's were aimed at not letting his opponents gain any confidence - at least I wouldn't feel confident if I got a free win in a best of 5. Props to him for a wonderful, commanding performance. And props to Kiwi for some phenomenal Protoss play as well.
The thread says no caster bashing, so I 'll just say there's room for improvement as far as casting is concerned. Not that big of a deal.
Congratulations to IGN for hosting a fantastic tournament - it is precisely what the Western e-sports scene needs right now.
Looking forward to the second season! Thank you for all the hard work that went into this>
The problem I have with HD's casting is it's not authentic. It's very forced and often fake enthusiasm. You can clearly hear him speaking before he thinks and often times what comes out of his mouth is a jumbled mess.
While I give him credit for trying to be exciting, he's trying so hard to be entertaining that you can tell he's doing it...which is fake.
Painuser on the other hand was a pleasant surprise and has a bright future in broadcasting if he choses to keep refining his skills.
On May 03 2011 14:50 cosmo.6792 wrote: Note to HD & Painuser:
Please stop calling all types of early aggression as "cheese". They are not the same. I expect that kind of talk from qq'ing silver league players. Professional casters should know better.
If a player scouts an opponent, sees a weakness, and then stops drone production to exploit the weakness with heavy aggression... THAT IS NOT CALLED CHEESE. It's called a proper strategic reaction. Cheese is when a player rolls the dice by blindly going all-in while having no idea what his opponent is doing.
6-pool = cheese.
3-roach rush = cheese.
Proxy Gateways = cheese.
Mass Roach vs a Fast Expand Protoss = Not cheese.
I'm in total agreement here, the word "cheese" thrown around annoyed quite a bit. The production value was, as always, incredible (definitely the best out there). IGN shouldn't get complacent though, there's always room for improvement. Looking forward to season 2 with all the mistakes of infancy eliminated (not that there were many). GJ guys!
Great job to IdrA, so happy for him that he's finally won something again. Been cheering for him lately and felt bad that things just weren't going his way.
I wonder if CatZ has anything to say about this? lol.
On May 04 2011 02:35 Tiorda wrote: The problem I have with HD's casting is it's not authentic. It's very forced and often fake enthusiasm. You can clearly hear him speaking before he thinks and often times what comes out of his mouth is a jumbled mess.
While I give him credit for trying to be exciting, he's trying so hard to be entertaining that you can tell he's doing it...which is fake.
Painuser on the other hand was a pleasant surprise and has a bright future in broadcasting if he choses to keep refining his skills.
Incoming HD fanbois and white knighting etc.
lol as a long time fan of HD since his days in bw casting.. i have to agree with you xD but why start talking abt his casting, this is more abt the ipl finals and not how good casters did their job, else flame wars will ensue for no good reason
On May 03 2011 14:50 cosmo.6792 wrote: Note to HD & Painuser:
Please stop calling all types of early aggression as "cheese". They are not the same. I expect that kind of talk from qq'ing silver league players. Professional casters should know better.
If a player scouts an opponent, sees a weakness, and then stops drone production to exploit the weakness with heavy aggression... THAT IS NOT CALLED CHEESE. It's called a proper strategic reaction. Cheese is when a player rolls the dice by blindly going all-in while having no idea what his opponent is doing.
6-pool = cheese.
3-roach rush = cheese.
Proxy Gateways = cheese.
Mass Roach vs a Fast Expand Protoss = Not cheese.
Also agreed but... Idra himself called his own games "Cheese" on state of the game later on... >.<
he got game 3 on a semi cheese roach/speedling push (i would rather call it a "All in"), game 4 was about tons a fights everywhere with lots of drops (thats and proxy spines i belive are the future of zergs), and game 5 was also similar (Idra call that win on kiwikaki being bad and knowing nothing about timings, lol)....
So I went to go watch the VODs (i'm so behind on tournaments D and all the links to the individual videos appear to be broken. D: Anyone else having this problem?
On May 07 2011 08:57 sylverfyre wrote: So I went to go watch the VODs (i'm so behind on tournaments D and all the links to the individual videos appear to be broken. D: Anyone else having this problem?
They seem to be down right now, I'm checking to see how long they will be down, sorry for the problem!
On May 07 2011 08:57 sylverfyre wrote: So I went to go watch the VODs (i'm so behind on tournaments D and all the links to the individual videos appear to be broken. D: Anyone else having this problem?
They seem to be down right now, I'm checking to see how long they will be down, sorry for the problem!
Seems like they're already fixed. Thanks for the quick response!!
EPT
![[image loading]](http://imgur.com/YwMM8.png)
EGIdrA vs 
ROOTKiWiKaKi - Grand Finals![[image loading]](http://imgur.com/XtTlS.png)
![[image loading]](http://imgur.com/KY7oc.jpg)
![[image loading]](http://imgur.com/dFrVB.png)
