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On June 12 2011 19:32 Duravi wrote:
MC dominated both the semis and the finals, the only time where live play was used. China may be growing but it still has a way to go if the results from this tournament are to be used as an example.
MC is just ahead of everyone in the PvP metagame and his godly micro doesn't hurt either
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On June 12 2011 19:33 Juliette wrote:Show nested quote +On June 12 2011 19:30 Azarkon wrote:On June 12 2011 19:24 Juliette wrote:
k think this makes up for losing to alicia and losira :o. and he's playing at DH apparently....
we get to watch baller FFs again haha
raelcun wants to see a ceremony haha
hmmm.
I think his coach, ogsTheWind, is smart enough to tell him to not do a ceremony in China. The Chinese don't appreciate it nearly as much as we in the West do, and MC might get mugged if he were to do so  its pretty baller that they have thewind there haha. well im going to bed, that was a great way to end the night haha
He's there, you could see him in Raelcun's stream right after the final game.
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MC vs XiaoT was the real finals. I was much more impressed by XiaoT, he didn't make any big mistakes during his series, MC just played insanely well. That series was very very high level play, wouldn't have looked out of place in a GSL Code S round of 8. Contrast that with lovecd's many blunders. He's got talent, but he's still rough around the edges. I was actually surprised that he managed to take out LoveTT during the semis, because I felt like LoveTT was a more polished player. And it's a shame that the best of 4 was all PvP, because XiaoT's creativity and strength really comes from the PvZs and PvTs I've seen from him. Shame he went for all 4gate against MC, maybe he was too scared to try something radical against him.
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On June 12 2011 19:32 Duravi wrote:
MC dominated both the semis and the finals, the only time where live play was used. China may be growing but it still has a way to go if the results from this tournament are to be used as an example.
I don't begrudge people for thinking either way about the results of this tournament beforehand. The Chinese players were really quite impressive throughout the qualifying phase, even when they had the lag disadvantage. The finals, from the information available at that time, could've gone either way.
Today, though, we have confirmation that the Chinese players aren't as solid. Not unexpected. But also not definitely expected. It's just one of those things where you have to see. And in seeing, we realize what we do not yet see - which is how well they'd perform against NA/EU players in NA/EU LANs.
That'd be something worth seeing.
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On June 11 2011 20:46 MrCon wrote:
MC will get stomped again TT
Your predictions are very accurate sir.
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Honestly, LoveCd was really mediocre. His decision making were that of an average grandmasters player. Maybe it was the lag issue, or he was tilting, but I'm really surprised that Nestea lost to this guy. Then again Nestea lost to GoOdy in TSL too.
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On June 12 2011 19:45 SEANSYE wrote:
Honestly, LoveCd was really mediocre. His decision making were that of an average grandmasters player. Maybe it was the lag issue, or he was tilting, but I'm really surprised that Nestea lost to this guy. Then again Nestea lost to GoOdy in TSL too.
What? No they certainly were not.
Mistakes in PvP are often lethal in the early game, it is the most unforgiving match up. You can't just throw down spines or bunkers, there are no units that have amazing return like Banelings, Lings or Siege Tanks. It doesn't matter how good you are, when you lose 5 Stalkers that early in the game, it is over in PvP, no if ands or buts.
The replays against NesteA and Morrow are up, watch them for yourself if you doubt him. But don't be surprised when you find yourself eating your words at the end of it though.
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On June 12 2011 19:45 SEANSYE wrote:
Honestly, LoveCd was really mediocre. His decision making were that of an average grandmasters player. Maybe it was the lag issue, or he was tilting, but I'm really surprised that Nestea lost to this guy. Then again Nestea lost to GoOdy in TSL too.
He was tilting, but I'd argue that the decision making was mediocre for the same reason XiaoT's was mediocre - they are wrapped in their own meta-game. Every Chinese player goes the route of blink stalkers and none of them even tries to incorporate immortals. They seem to believe in their own strategy and did not try to vary it for MC except for small adjustments.
This is a good way to approach tournaments - play what you practiced - and also a good way of seeing the discrepancies in meta-game. MC came in with a strategy that basically "hard-counters" blink stalkers as well as any strategy can - 3 gate robo into immortals. The one game he tried an offensive 4 gate against Lovecd, he lost. The Chinese are comfortable against that sort of strategy. They (including XiaoT) are not comfortable against MC's immortal turtle style and have more than once blinked to their doom into zealots and immortals.
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I said it after I watched MC vs Xiaot series and I will say it again: the Chinese need to forget 1.2 and start playing 1.3.
These 4 gate builds are sooooo last patch man. They are still stuck in 4gate vs 4gate sigh...
Maybe these series against MC will open their eyes a bit and catch up in metagame. They got talent, just need some work.
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On June 12 2011 19:53 Azarkon wrote:Show nested quote +On June 12 2011 19:45 SEANSYE wrote:
Honestly, LoveCd was really mediocre. His decision making were that of an average grandmasters player. Maybe it was the lag issue, or he was tilting, but I'm really surprised that Nestea lost to this guy. Then again Nestea lost to GoOdy in TSL too. He was tilting, but I'd argue that the decision making was mediocre for the same reason XiaoT's was mediocre - they are wrapped in their own meta-game. Every Chinese player goes the route of blink stalkers and none of them even tries to incorporate immortals. They firmly believe in their own strategy and did not try to vary it for MC except for small adjustments. This is a good way to approach tournaments - play what you practiced - and also a good way of seeing the discrepancies in meta-game. MC came in with a strategy that basically "hard-counters" blink stalkers as well as any strategy can - 3 gate robo into immortals. The one game he tried an offensive 4 gate against Lovecd, he lost. The Chinese are comfortable against that sort of strategy. They are not comfortable against MC's immortal turtle style and have more than once blinked to their doom (even XiaoT did this) into zealots and immortals.
You could be spot on about Chinese players doing their own strategy or maybe they just haven't seen the style of MC. It was just uncommon seeing LoveCd making archons and not any immortals against such heavy stalker play. He also made the mistake of hanging his stalkers around MC's base twice without knowing what could be coming from MC. Although the one on metalopolis could be justified since he was going for a hidden expansion by being aggressive. Not sure what he was thinking though on shattered temple.
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Is ICCUp gonna put the vods on their youtube channel like they did for the rest of the tourney?
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On June 12 2011 19:50 Dommk wrote:
The replays against NesteA and Morrow are up, watch them for yourself if you doubt him. But don't be surprised when you find yourself eating your words at the end of it though.
I did only see the game against Morrow, and Morrow played horribly. I was much more impressed by LoveTT's play against Dimaga.
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MC is just way too good. I hope this ends all discussion of him being easilly the best Protoss in the world.
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Hail to the Protoss President.
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On June 12 2011 19:53 Azarkon wrote:Show nested quote +On June 12 2011 19:45 SEANSYE wrote:
Honestly, LoveCd was really mediocre. His decision making were that of an average grandmasters player. Maybe it was the lag issue, or he was tilting, but I'm really surprised that Nestea lost to this guy. Then again Nestea lost to GoOdy in TSL too. He was tilting, but I'd argue that the decision making was mediocre for the same reason XiaoT's was mediocre - they are wrapped in their own meta-game. Every Chinese player goes the route of blink stalkers and none of them even tries to incorporate immortals. They seem to believe in their own strategy and did not try to vary it for MC except for small adjustments. This is a good way to approach tournaments - play what you practiced - and also a good way of seeing the discrepancies in meta-game. MC came in with a strategy that basically "hard-counters" blink stalkers as well as any strategy can - 3 gate robo into immortals. The one game he tried an offensive 4 gate against Lovecd, he lost. The Chinese are comfortable against that sort of strategy. They (including XiaoT) are not comfortable against MC's immortal turtle style and have more than once blinked to their doom into zealots and immortals.
This is not true at all. Those builds don't hard counter anything. MC was just smarter at varying his composition. If love had a more heavy chargelot centric army, he would get sentries and rely on FF to isolate the zealots. And when love switched back to stalkers and dump his minerals into a 3rd Nexus, MC stopped producing sentries and switched back to immortals. The game on testbug was a good example of blink getting an advantage over robo openning. MC just managed to come back using smart DT play.
If the roles were reversed, MC could beat Love using blink/charge vs robo opening. It's just a matter adapting the build to the fullest potential against your opponent.
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And discrediting the loser also discredits the winner. The Chinese players beat very good opponents to get it this far. It's not as if they lost like how Idra did and how Naniwa did. MC just played better and smarter. Give credit where credit is due.
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On June 13 2011 01:09 kheldorin wrote:
And discrediting the loser also discredits the winner. The Chinese players beat very good opponents to get it this far. It's not as if they lost like how Idra did and how Naniwa did. MC just played better and smarter. Give credit where credit is due.
The latency to China is Insane. It's obvious that the latency played a big factor when there are 3 out of 4 Chinese players in the final 4.
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EPT
