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On April 13 2011 05:22 Endorsed wrote:Show nested quote +On April 13 2011 05:19 FrozenFrog wrote:On April 13 2011 05:09 Spicy Pepper wrote:
Some of the people bashing MC on Shakuras also cheered Dimaga against Nestea on Xelnaga. Both were calculated gambles by smart players, exploiting a weakness in their opponent. This, foreigner goggles much? So now only foreigners are allowed to cheese? And when a korean cheeses its all "Aw he has no skill has to rely on cheese" Jeez, the amount of bias here is baffling. Dimaga's was way better calculated then MC's. Dimaga knew from watching games from Nestea that he doesn't scout when he 14 hatches(wich he does in 90 percent of his games), so he just went for the all in and it worked.
This is MC's 3rd series against WhiteRa in a very short time. Do you actually think MC hasn't studied all of WhiteRa's replays especially after Team WC? Do you actually underestimate the pros that much?
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This day was stellar. Dreamhack presented Starcraft at it's utmost potential. We could see really special games, both micro oriented crazy moments and high level macro games. Apollo, Demuslim and 2GD have done a really good job but it was the audience that made it truly epic. Hands down, best tournament.
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I think the main problem at the moment is that there are 5 different versions of the same map in circulation. Tournaments should consider removing Shakuras from the the map pool, if only to avoid this confusion (and to a lesser extent Metalopolis).
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cheesing in RTS is like playing defensively when up 1-0 in soccer. It's called winning.
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On April 13 2011 05:19 Rustug wrote:
As a Terran player I definitely want the VOD or Replay for TLO's 7rax ... that was such an awesome, fun build and I want to try it.
And Idra reaction in the post match interview was a classic.
So many good moments in this tournament.
http://www.justin.tv/dreamhacktv/b/283528179
The other Vods are up, too. 
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On April 13 2011 05:21 Numy wrote:
Yes, every player that intentionally breaks the rules is cheating.
Defining the word so broadly that it describes every football player ever, makes the word meaningless. Reserve it for people who deserve it.
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On April 13 2011 05:04 Impeccable wrote:Show nested quote +
You realize that WWE isn't a sport or other form of competition and the outcomes are rigged right?
That is precisely why I mentioned it.
Huh? So, what was your point then? To prove yourself wrong?
E-sports will cease to become E-Sports when the outcomes are predetermined. Thus it fails.
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Is it okay to be let down by game 5?
It just seemed to anti-climatic to see it end due to lack of proper scouting.
Taking nothing away from either player, purely from a fan / spectator standpoint, game five was a fizzle to an overall bang of a tournament.
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On April 13 2011 05:20 Warrice wrote:Show nested quote +On April 13 2011 05:16 fishjie wrote:
so many whiners about cheese its a legit way to play the game.
MC is arguably the best sc2 player in the world right now, deal with it.
great series! i'm happy white-ra managed to take 2 games off MC, so epic he may win the most, but that doesnt make him more skilled than others, he is good at making precise builds and timing attacks other than that, i cant name a thing he is THAT good at.
You're only seeing what you want to see. Try Macro. MC is better at macro than anyone else too. He had more bases and a gold than the so called great macro player IdrA. Try Startegy usually one step ahead of opponents at all times building right counters and right compositions. And unit control in battles along with almost flawless micro. It's no accident he has ~$200K in his bank account.
His weakness is what you think is his strength too greedy of timings and that's how he loses. I've never seen him lose a macro game.
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On April 13 2011 05:19 Hyperionnn wrote:Show nested quote +On April 13 2011 05:17 Hot_Bid wrote:
One of the most epic games ever in BW was the one in the OSL finals where Boxer SCV+Marine rushed yellow. Crazy stuff happens.
This DH finals game 5 could have been awesome had WR not scouted a position where MC could not have spawned. He might have defended and turned the game into a really fun situation. or ever 2004 finals mm vs iloveoov
Or the Proleague finals 2 years ago when Fantasy bunker-rushed Jaedong.
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On April 13 2011 05:25 dubRa wrote:
This day was stellar. Dreamhack presented Starcraft at it's utmost potential. We could see really special games, both micro oriented crazy moments and high level macro games. Apollo, Demuslim and 2GD have done a really good job but it was the audience that made it truly epic. Hands down, best tournament.
I second that!
If YOU (person reading this) was at Dreamhack today and was in the audience, I throw out some mad props for you sir! (or mam!)
Good crowds are so important for the viewing experience, even on stream
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On April 13 2011 05:26 Yaotzin wrote:Show nested quote +On April 13 2011 05:21 Numy wrote:
Yes, every player that intentionally breaks the rules is cheating.
Defining the word so broadly that it describes every football player ever, makes the word meaningless. Reserve it for people who deserve it.
Possibly. That makes sense although I don't like redefining things merely because of social acceptance.
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As bad as PvP is, are any of you NOT rooting for MC and White-Ra to meet again in the NASL?
A rivalry is born
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On April 13 2011 05:20 Warrice wrote:Show nested quote +On April 13 2011 05:16 fishjie wrote:
so many whiners about cheese its a legit way to play the game.
MC is arguably the best sc2 player in the world right now, deal with it.
great series! i'm happy white-ra managed to take 2 games off MC, so epic he may win the most, but that doesnt make him more skilled than others, he is good at making precise builds and timing attacks other than that, i cant name a thing he is THAT good at.
Ya hes only good at making builds and executing them better than other people, which is only you know... like... most of the game....
His micro is amazing.
His game sense is amazing.
His strategical decisions are pretty amazing.
You don't win 2 GSL's, Dreamhack, etc.. from being some middle of the pack scrub that only knows how to 4gate. 4gating every game doesnt even get you far in Diamond league on friggin ladder, its not gonna win you GSL's. You seem to forget he has to play other matchups, not just PvP, and PvP is based around 1 basing. You people are so god damn hard to please. Its sad seing ppl just qq up and down the street after a really great tournament, and a really great series.
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On April 13 2011 05:20 Warrice wrote:Show nested quote +On April 13 2011 05:16 fishjie wrote:
so many whiners about cheese its a legit way to play the game.
MC is arguably the best sc2 player in the world right now, deal with it.
great series! i'm happy white-ra managed to take 2 games off MC, so epic he may win the most, but that doesnt make him more skilled than others, he is good at making precise builds and timing attacks other than that, i cant name a thing he is THAT good at.
1. MC may win the most.
2. MC is not more skilled than others.
3. Therefore it does not take more skill to win.
Are you resorting to this "reasoning"?
Rather, is it possible you misunderstand the word "skill"?
Does executing precise builds and timing attacks constitute skill?
Is it possible MC is good at exploiting weakness in other people's strategy and taking calculated risks?
Is it possible MC is good at micro (as seen from his sentry forcefields and blink stalkers)?
Is MC not THAT good at anything, or is it possible you're being unreasonable?
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On April 13 2011 05:27 andrewlt wrote:Show nested quote +On April 13 2011 05:19 Hyperionnn wrote:On April 13 2011 05:17 Hot_Bid wrote:
One of the most epic games ever in BW was the one in the OSL finals where Boxer SCV+Marine rushed yellow. Crazy stuff happens.
This DH finals game 5 could have been awesome had WR not scouted a position where MC could not have spawned. He might have defended and turned the game into a really fun situation. or ever 2004 finals mm vs iloveoov Or the Proleague finals 2 years ago when Fantasy bunker-rushed Jaedong.
for hotbid:
wasnt that boxers marine+scv rush happened in a kpga game or am i wrong?
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On April 13 2011 05:16 Ocedic wrote:Show nested quote +On April 13 2011 05:13 danielsan wrote:On April 13 2011 05:11 DarkPlasmaBall wrote:
Don't post bullshit about how MC needs to cheese to win, or how he doesn't have real skill, because his achievements have already proven that he's one of the best SC2 players in the world. the guy 4 gates and other all-ins like 50% of the matches. It's 6 months already and i still can't see what's the hype around him. Actually that's just you (and other similarly narrow minded spectators) defining 'all ins' as any aggressive play. That is unless of course it's your favorite players doing a aggressive play. Then it's 'brilliant strategy.'
maybe watch MC play before you post?
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Braavos36401 Posts
On April 13 2011 05:25 blooblooblahblah wrote:Show nested quote +On April 13 2011 05:17 dakalro wrote:On April 13 2011 05:14 Kreb wrote:
I really respect Whitera seemingly not ever offensive 4gate, he do seem to think thats not how PvP is supposed to be played. But sometimes i cant stop growling a bit at his inability to switch up his style with a few cheeses or just go straight up offensive 4gates, even or clear 4gate maps such as crevasse.
But the bigger problem is that he often seems to expect the same behaviour from his opponent, and thusly he doesnt prepare enough for the other guy 4gating. We saw it against San in GSLWC and MC in TSL.
Really respect his style but i cant help feeling its a bit..... stubborn. Would really have loved to see him win. Even by cannon rushing or proxy gating. What are you on about, one of his wins tonight was offensive 4gate. It wasn't a straight up offensive 4gate tho. It came about 3 minutes later with more probes. I also feel tht White-ra should mix in offensive 4 gates in his play or a least a standard economic 4gate. His economic 4gate is almost a little too economic and wasn't able to hold off a well-executed 4gate from MC. An 8 probe lead is huge if he can defend, but i personally feel it's much safer to get 22 probes and than add two.
This is just a ridiculous argument. First, no it didn't come 3 minutes later, rofl. Second, we are differentiating between 4-gate attacks now? Like oh, this guy had 3 more probes so it's not as all-in and we should respect that? What kind of blind fanboy argument is this?
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Dreamhack did a really fantastic job with this tournament. I feel like its the gold standard for what foreign SC2 tournaments should be. The stream started to lag a bit towards the end, but it was a free HD stream so I can't really complain.
I also feel like this is the tournament that will get a lot of companies who were considering investing in Esports either through a player/team or by paying for advertising time to take the plunge and try it. 50000 people were watching this stream and its a fairly easy to document demographic as well. Most companies aimed at gamers seem to have clocked onto the fact that streams like this are the best way to advertise to gamers, but I feel like there are other large demographics represented in the stream viewers that companies, aside from the obvious software and hardware companies, would want to tap in to.
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On April 13 2011 05:24 Hot_Bid wrote:Show nested quote +On April 13 2011 05:22 Kirb wrote:On April 13 2011 05:17 Hot_Bid wrote:
One of the most epic games ever in BW was the one in the OSL finals where Boxer SCV+Marine rushed yellow. Crazy stuff happens.
This DH finals game 5 could have been awesome had WR not scouted a position where MC could not have spawned. He might have defended and turned the game into a really fun situation. QFT! I never get why people in sc2 hate cheese THAT much in box tournament series. In bw lr threads their is so much hype if someone pulls out a well executed cheese and the defender tries to hang in their. In sc2 lr threads their's just hate. Especially when it's a Bo5 with 0 practice/preparation time. There is almost certainly going to be at least one game where there's cheese.
The mods keep being the most intelligent beings of all. lol.
Imo I get really excited when I watch someone do something ridiculously cheesy. 4 gates can get dull after a while, but f*cking proxy gateways in your base never gets boring. It's so intense.
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EPT
