Statements ROOT: EG is a great team and we meet very often =) we always have nice close matches, EG is always fun to play against but we'll win kk c u
EG: ROOT is our biggest rivals, so of course we're looking forward to playing them. We've got a long history of great matches and hopefully this match will be no different. I would like to wish them the best of luck.
Wow this will be quite the interesting matchup! I haven't seen CatZ ZvZ in a while but I have the feeling that if he falters, Minigun and Drewbie will clean house. Here are my predictions: CatZ < Machine Minigun > Machine Minigun > Idra Minigun < Axslav Drewbie > Axslav Drewbie > StrifeCro
On March 13 2011 15:56 Hoban wrote: Wow this will be quite the interesting matchup! I haven't seen CatZ ZvZ in a while but I have the feeling that if he falters, Minigun and Drewbie will clean house. Here are my predictions: CatZ < Machine Minigun > Machine Minigun > Idra Minigun < Axslav Drewbie > Axslav Drewbie > StrifeCro
GL team Root!
Your prediction could be correct but I think Catz vs. Machine is just a tossup
On March 14 2011 10:01 KoDo wrote: Unfortunately Sheth could'nt show up today so the war wil be casted by Rumcake and Gretorp! hope this doesn't upset anyone
Sounds good. I can't wait to see these two teams play.
Great bkrow! Glad to have you as an admin :D it seems like Gretorp is afk, so Colbi wil be stepping in to cast and hopefully gretorp can join us mid-cast!
Waiting on Machine who is afk so may be using a different starter.. Colbi just joined Rumcake on the cast stating Machine is MIA hehe .. waiting for another starter from EG
On March 14 2011 10:01 KoDo wrote: Unfortunately Sheth could'nt show up today so the war wil be casted by Rumcake and Gretorp! hope this doesn't upset anyone
I like Sheth's casting and haven't heard Rumcake commentate before, but I'm sure he'll do just fine
Although I think at the moment, someone might be having technical difficulties
And what is with that clicking (or what everyone is calling fapping)?
On March 14 2011 10:42 bkrow wrote: CatZ vs Machine, an epic ZvZ coming up on Metalopolis!
Waiting on Machine who is afk so may be using a different starter.. Colbi just joined Rumcake on the cast stating Machine is MIA hehe .. waiting for another starter from EG
On March 14 2011 10:42 bkrow wrote: CatZ vs Machine, an epic ZvZ coming up on Metalopolis!
Waiting on Machine WhO is afk so may be using a different starter.. Colbi just joined Rumcake on the Cast stating Machine is MIA hehe .. waiting for another starter from EG
CatZ vs StrifeCro, an epic ZvZ starting now on Metalopolis! StrifeCro spawning at the 7 oclock position with CatZ at the 1 oclock..
CatZ going speedling opening, Strife going early hatchery.. Should be interesting :/
On March 14 2011 10:42 bkrow wrote: CatZ vs Machine, an epic ZvZ coming up on Metalopolis!
Waiting on Machine WhO is afk so may be using a different starter.. Colbi just joined Rumcake on the Cast stating Machine is MIA hehe .. waiting for another starter from EG
CatZ vs StrifeCro, an epic ZvZ starting now on Metalopolis! StrifeCro spawning at the 7 oclock position with CatZ at the 1 oclock..
CatZ going speedling opening, Strife going early hatchery.. Should be interesting :/
StrifeCro now takes his gas and both are producing lings and their queens; CatZ now throws down his expansion; Strife gets his expansion up with both almost having their roach warren up.. all small ling engagement cleans up StrifeCro; CatZ pressuring with lings
Calling it in favor of Root simply because there are three Zergs on EG. I know it sounds terrible but unless IdrA pulls something out, I can't see EG taking this.
Can anyone explain to me why they decided to start after acknowledging that the second commentator was too quiet to be heard?
I don't understand why they wouldn't try solo casting it until they sort it out or finding someone else.
Having only one half of the commentating being heard is detracting quite a bit from the experience. Half of the time it's just dead air to those of us that can't hear the second commentator.
On March 14 2011 10:42 bkrow wrote: CatZ vs Machine, an epic ZvZ coming up on Metalopolis!
Waiting on Machine WhO is afk so may be using a different starter.. Colbi just joined Rumcake on the Cast stating Machine is MIA hehe .. waiting for another starter from EG
CatZ vs StrifeCro, an epic ZvZ starting now on Metalopolis! StrifeCro spawning at the 7 oclock position with CatZ at the 1 oclock..
CatZ going speedling opening, Strife going early hatchery.. Should be interesting :/
StrifeCro now takes his gas and both are producing lings and their queens; CatZ now throws down his expansion; Strife gets his expansion up with both almost having their roach warren up.. a small ling engagement cleans up StrifeCro; CatZ pressuring with lings
CatZ scouts with one surviving ling in StrifeCro's base; CatZ is up by 6 drones with speed and roaches both available for both players.. StrifeCro moving towards CatZ's base; but forces some lost mining time.. CatZ has his lair done and has started his missile attacks level 1.. CatZ seems to be in the lead..
On March 14 2011 10:42 bkrow wrote: CatZ vs Machine, an epic ZvZ coming up on Metalopolis!
Waiting on Machine WhO is afk so may be using a different starter.. Colbi just joined Rumcake on the Cast stating Machine is MIA hehe .. waiting for another starter from EG
CatZ vs StrifeCro, an epic ZvZ starting now on Metalopolis! StrifeCro spawning at the 7 oclock position with CatZ at the 1 oclock..
CatZ going speedling opening, Strife going early hatchery.. Should be interesting :/
StrifeCro now takes his gas and both are producing lings and their queens; CatZ now throws down his expansion; Strife gets his expansion up with both almost having their roach warren up.. a small ling engagement cleans up StrifeCro; CatZ pressuring with lings
CatZ scouts with one surviving ling in StrifeCro's base; CatZ is up by 6 drones with speed and roaches both available for both players.. StrifeCro moving towards CatZ's base; but forces some lost mining time.. CatZ has his lair done and has started his missile attacks level 1.. CatZ seems to be in the lead..
Both have roach speed on the way; almost complete but CatZ has the upgrade advantage.. CatZ's roaches are moving out as Strife takes his third after some heavy droning.. CatZ feigns some pressure but moves back; CatZ takes his third now.. A very even game.. But CatZ has the roach lead.. Both roach forces run into each other at CatZ's natural but CatZ has way more and Strife has to back out - CatZ commits to an attack with almost double amount of roaches!
On March 14 2011 11:01 KoDo wrote: Gretorp is back and should be coming for game two. We apologize for the sound issues we're trying to find the issue
Glad to hear it, just to recap current issues are: -One caster too quiet, other too loud -There is a constant annoying ticking sound -Game sounds are off -Minor point, but game graphics really could be higher
On March 14 2011 10:42 bkrow wrote: CatZ vs Machine, an epic ZvZ coming up on Metalopolis!
Waiting on Machine WhO is afk so may be using a different starter.. Colbi just joined Rumcake on the Cast stating Machine is MIA hehe .. waiting for another starter from EG
CatZ vs StrifeCro, an epic ZvZ starting now on Metalopolis! StrifeCro spawning at the 7 oclock position with CatZ at the 1 oclock..
CatZ going speedling opening, Strife going early hatchery.. Should be interesting :/
StrifeCro now takes his gas and both are producing lings and their queens; CatZ now throws down his expansion; Strife gets his expansion up with both almost having their roach warren up.. a small ling engagement cleans up StrifeCro; CatZ pressuring with lings
CatZ scouts with one surviving ling in StrifeCro's base; CatZ is up by 6 drones with speed and roaches both available for both players.. StrifeCro moving towards CatZ's base; but forces some lost mining time.. CatZ has his lair done and has started his missile attacks level 1.. CatZ seems to be in the lead..
Both have roach speed on the way; almost complete but CatZ has the upgrade advantage.. CatZ's roaches are moving out as Strife takes his third after some heavy droning.. CatZ feigns some pressure but moves back; CatZ takes his third now.. A very even game.. But CatZ has the roach lead.. Both roach forces run into each other at CatZ's natural but CatZ has way more and Strife has to back out - CatZ commits to an attack with almost double amount of roaches!
StrifeCro burrows but CatZ has NO overseer! This allows Strife to survive but CatZ still snipes StrifeCro's third.. CatZ pushes again now with an overseer and double the amount of roaches.. CatZ is continuing his roach production and so does Strife; there is a back and forth battle at StrifeCro's third.. CatZ looking to dominate..
Can someone tell the observer to stop zipping the camera around faster than a Formula 1 car so we can actually make sense of what's going on? It's pretty hard to make anything out with the stream quality already : (
You're a hero. Just read through the thread looking for some results, and while everyone else was talking about the stream quality, you had quality updates on what was happening in the match. <3
On March 14 2011 11:19 bkrow wrote: CatZ vs IdrA on Shakuras Plateau! Fail TLPDize .. Damn you BW!
Game has started, CatZ is spawning at the 11 oclock position with IdrA spawning at the 5 oclock position in cross positions!
Gas and pool first from IdrA, CatZ opens early hatch!
IdrA's pool pops and 4 lings, a queen and metabolic boost pops onto the production tab instantly.. CatZ's pool just finished; IdrA pushes into CatZ's natural but his queen pops out just in time to hold it off; lings are exchanged on both sides but IdrA continues the pressure - he takes down the queen and lings at the natural; CatZ is defending with a queen and drones!
Speed isn't finished for CatZ, IdrA on 24 drones, CatZ on 12..
On March 14 2011 11:19 bkrow wrote: CatZ vs IdrA on Shakuras Plateau! Fail TLPDize .. Damn you BW!
Game has started, CatZ is spawning at the 11 oclock position with IdrA spawning at the 5 oclock position in cross positions!
Gas and pool first from IdrA, CatZ opens early hatch!
IdrA's pool pops and 4 lings, a queen and metabolic boost pops onto the production tab instantly.. CatZ's pool just finished; IdrA pushes into CatZ's natural but his queen pops out just in time to hold it off; lings are exchanged on both sides but IdrA continues the pressure - he takes down the queen and lings at the natural; CatZ is defending with a queen and drones!
Speed isn't finished for CatZ, IdrA on 24 drones, CatZ on 12..
CatZ went baneling nest and so did IdrA
IdrA was caught off guard by a ling counter attack and IdrA loses a queen; CatZ can scout with some remaining lings and now both players are going to start the baneling dance..
IdrA still has drone advantage; Both players exchanging banelings, IdrA pushing towards CatZ with ling/bane; IdrA out microes with his banelings and destroys CatZ ..
Wow IdrA's early speedling pressure was amazing! Ended up at 24 drones for IdrA vs. 12 drones for CatZ... then better baneling vs. baneling control for IdrA as well... just a very complete, one-sided thrashing.
On March 14 2011 11:30 bkrow wrote: ROOTMinigun vs EGIdrA coming up on Xel'Naga Caverns! Starting now!
IdrA spawns at the 7 oclock position with Minigun spawning at the 1oclock position on Xel'Naga Caverns!
Mini scouting at 9 with his pylon probe; 15 pool, 15 gas from IdrA, mini doing a standard opening
IdrA sends a drone scout and sees a second gas on the way; with a little bit of chronoboost on the nexus.. IdrA lays his expo down and pumps 4 lings
Sentry cleans up the drone scout of IdrA and mini starts chronoing a stalker out..
Speed is halfway done and the twilight council gets dropped immediately! Blink stalkers yo!
IdrA scouts with his overlord and sees the twilight council! Blink is being researched but IdrA knows what is coming.. Metabolic boost is done and IdrA starts pumping the lings..
wow cluctch scout! fuck idra is good, he woulda known blink stalker timings and scouted at the perfect time. hes so good to watch if you concentrate on the small things
On March 14 2011 11:30 bkrow wrote: ROOTMinigun vs EGIdrA coming up on Xel'Naga Caverns! Starting now!
IdrA spawns at the 7 oclock position with Minigun spawning at the 1oclock position on Xel'Naga Caverns!
Mini scouting at 9 with his pylon probe; 15 pool, 15 gas from IdrA, mini doing a standard opening
IdrA sends a drone scout and sees a second gas on the way; with a little bit of chronoboost on the nexus.. IdrA lays his expo down and pumps 4 lings
Sentry cleans up the drone scout of IdrA and mini starts chronoing a stalker out..
Speed is halfway done and the twilight council gets dropped immediately! Blink stalkers yo!
IdrA scouts with his overlord and sees the twilight council! Blink is being researched but IdrA knows what is coming.. Metabolic boost is done and IdrA starts pumping the lings..
Mini moves out and gets caught at IdrA's gold; he tries to blink to save his units but gets completely eaten by mass mass lings.. IdrA denies the forward pylon!
IdrA pushes towards Mini and applies some pressure; IdrA drops some more extractors while pumping lings.. Dark Shrine follow up on the way!
Stalkers getting surrounded but lings getting crushed; Both players in a stand off.. Engagement at IdrA's natural, mass ling manages to fend this off but Mini has a forward pylon.. DT shrine is done and the hydra den is up.. Grooved spine range is on the way..
IdrA's lings attempt to clean up the damage but DTs morph in now but IdrA has an overseer morphing JUST IN TIME! Mass ling cleans it up again and hydras are now on the way..
On March 14 2011 11:30 bkrow wrote: ROOTMinigun vs EGIdrA coming up on Xel'Naga Caverns! Starting now!
IdrA spawns at the 7 oclock position with Minigun spawning at the 1oclock position on Xel'Naga Caverns!
Mini scouting at 9 with his pylon probe; 15 pool, 15 gas from IdrA, mini doing a standard opening
IdrA sends a drone scout and sees a second gas on the way; with a little bit of chronoboost on the nexus.. IdrA lays his expo down and pumps 4 lings
Sentry cleans up the drone scout of IdrA and mini starts chronoing a stalker out..
Speed is halfway done and the twilight council gets dropped immediately! Blink stalkers yo!
IdrA scouts with his overlord and sees the twilight council! Blink is being researched but IdrA knows what is coming.. Metabolic boost is done and IdrA starts pumping the lings..
Mini moves out and gets caught at IdrA's gold; he tries to blink to save his units but gets completely eaten by mass mass lings.. IdrA denies the forward pylon!
IdrA pushes towards Mini and applies some pressure; IdrA drops some more extractors while pumping lings.. Dark Shrine follow up on the way!
Stalkers getting surrounded but lings getting crushed; Both players in a stand off.. Engagement at IdrA's natural, mass ling manages to fend this off but Mini has a forward pylon.. DT shrine is done and the hydra den is up.. Grooved spine range is on the way..
IdrA's lings attempt to clean up the damage but DTs morph in now but IdrA has an overseer morphing JUST IN TIME! Mass ling cleans it up again and hydras are now on the way
if minigun would have canceled his blink after the ovie died, and went straight for DTs, he would have won the game, pretty much hands down. Sad to see him lose......
On March 14 2011 11:42 hiyo_bye wrote: I wish Mini just played standard, this blink stuff works on a lot of people but I guess IdrA is just too used to it already.
On March 14 2011 11:43 hmunkey wrote: I like how people are so excited about IdrA getting units out just in time, as if that's not the goal of playing Zerg perfectly.
So one cant get excited when a player plays their race perfectly?
On March 14 2011 11:42 N3rV[Green] wrote: if minigun would have canceled his blink after the ovie died, and went straight for DTs, he would have won the game, pretty much hands down. Sad to see him lose......
IdrA would of been suspicious. The point of a blink rush is to attack really fast. If mini did not attack at all it would of been a dead give-away of something fishy, and Idra got his lair soon after anyway.
Well, after losing so horribly against it (Nazgul) in MLG I think IdrA must have swore never to lose to blink stalkers ever again. ZvT in Delta could potentially lead to IdrA just doing something crazy and leave before the 10 minute mark.
IdrA refusing to play on DQ - apparently that is the delay.. trying to figure out the veto politics hehe
On March 14 2011 11:47 ch33psh33p wrote: Lol
Idra thought he veto'ed DQ when he actually veto'ed LT, so now he's whining.
Drewbie whining equally as hard, both sides being complete kids about it.
He thought the vetoes stacked.. So he vetoed DQ in his first game, and then vetoed LT for this game verse drewbie.. Thinking both would be vetoed; but he was wrong..
how do they prevent cheating when all their teammates are spectating the stream? seems like they could easily message/call their friend while their playing and tell them whats going on. are they using the honor system?
On March 14 2011 11:50 Strut wrote: how do they prevent cheating when all their teammates are spectating the stream? seems like they could easily message/call their friend while their playing and tell them whats going on. are they using the honor system?
i feel like i'm missing something important
It's on the honor system. I'm sure the players are set to busy but yeah, they could still receive phone calls.
I think ROOT should have just dealt with it; what zerg/protoss doesn't veto Delta? On that note, i dont think i like all the teammates obsing...cheating, anyone?
On March 14 2011 11:51 bkrow wrote: ROOT.drewbie vs EGIdrA on Lost Temple coming up right now! After some more BM between IdrA and drewbie we are starting!
IdrA spawning at the 7 oclock position, drewbie spawning in the 2 oclock position.. close positions :/
IdrA drops his hatch first as drewbie scouts the close positions,
Pool and gas now go down; 4 drones chase off an scv and a marine; IdrA gets his hatch up with 6 lings on the way..
Drewbie's CC is halfway done and drops a bunker.. The CC finishes and drewbie has 2 factories on the way with double refinery.. Gretorp hinting at blue flame hellions,
IdrA scouts BOTH factories and the tech lab! While pushes into drewbies natural to take out 2 scvs! Hellion preigniter upgrade is on the way;
IdrA adds on another extractor and continues to pump lings,
I can understand BM if you're serious about the game and care about the game. I don't understand bm just be be an asshole. All these observers also make it seem very amaturish for playoffs.
On March 14 2011 11:55 ffz wrote: I can understand BM if you're serious about the game and care about the game. I don't understand bm just be be an asshole. All these observers also make it seem very amaturish for playoffs.
Drewbie tried to force IdrA to play DQ... If [mostmanneredPGofalltime] played Zerg, even he would've BMed Drewbie there.
On March 14 2011 11:51 bkrow wrote: ROOT.drewbie vs EGIdrA on Lost Temple coming up right now! After some more BM between IdrA and drewbie we are starting!
IdrA spawning at the 7 oclock position, drewbie spawning in the 2 oclock position.. close positions :/
IdrA drops his hatch first as drewbie scouts the close positions,
Pool and gas now go down; 4 drones chase off an scv and a marine; IdrA gets his hatch up with 6 lings on the way..
Drewbie's CC is halfway done and drops a bunker.. The CC finishes and drewbie has 2 factories on the way with double refinery.. Gretorp hinting at blue flame hellions,
IdrA scouts BOTH factories and the tech lab! While pushes into drewbies natural to take out 2 scvs! Hellion preigniter upgrade is on the way;
IdrA adds on another extractor and continues to pump lings,
IdrA takes the 9oclock expansion; drewbie has 6 hellions out with 3 on the way; blue flame is almost done and the spire is on the way.. IdrA needs to delay..
Drewbie moves out with 9 hellions,
Zergligns get a massive surround on the 9 hellions! 3 remain, drones forced to be pulled.. 2 hellions left; they scout IdrA's main and then get taken out
Thors are on the way for drewbie as well as turrets..
Holy shit, that was such good defence of those hellions... used his queens to block the various paths drewbie tried to take, and then drones to block... 9 hellions did basically nothing. That was amazing.
On March 14 2011 11:51 bkrow wrote: ROOT.drewbie vs EGIdrA on Lost Temple coming up right now! After some more BM between IdrA and drewbie we are starting!
IdrA spawning at the 7 oclock position, drewbie spawning in the 2 oclock position.. close positions :/
IdrA drops his hatch first as drewbie scouts the close positions,
Pool and gas now go down; 4 drones chase off an scv and a marine; IdrA gets his hatch up with 6 lings on the way..
Drewbie's CC is halfway done and drops a bunker.. The CC finishes and drewbie has 2 factories on the way with double refinery.. Gretorp hinting at blue flame hellions,
IdrA scouts BOTH factories and the tech lab! While pushes into drewbies natural to take out 2 scvs! Hellion preigniter upgrade is on the way;
IdrA adds on another extractor and continues to pump lings,
IdrA takes the 9oclock expansion; drewbie has 6 hellions out with 3 on the way; blue flame is almost done and the spire is on the way.. IdrA needs to delay..
Drewbie moves out with 9 hellions,
Zergligns get a massive surround on the 9 hellions! 3 remain, drones forced to be pulled.. 2 hellions left; they scout IdrA's main and then get taken out
Thors are on the way for drewbie as well as turrets..
Stim, vehicle weapons and infantry weapons upgrades on the way for drewbie - mutas are deflected by a Thor volley.. He continues to pump mutas with plus 1 air attack on the way..
Baneling nest is done; as is his evo chamber.. Drewbie has transitioned into Thors, tanks and marines.. Centrifugal hooks is being upgraded; mutas continue to be deflected by IdrA's mutas but allows for good map control.. Banelings morphing, level 2 air attack and melee attack level 1 on the way..
Drewbie also hitting up level 2 infantry attack and combat shields.. Now starting vehicle armor!
IdrA has taken his 4th at the 10oclock natural expansion; both macroing quite well;
On March 14 2011 11:58 DAMMERUNG wrote: idra handles 9 blue flame hellions perfectly with the units he has. it was amazing. speedling block then drone block. wow.
I was super impressed by this too. Very well handled and really came out on top. It could have been so much worse for IdrA.
On March 14 2011 11:51 bkrow wrote: ROOT.drewbie vs EGIdrA on Lost Temple coming up right now! After some more BM between IdrA and drewbie we are starting!
IdrA spawning at the 7 oclock position, drewbie spawning in the 2 oclock position.. close positions :/
IdrA drops his hatch first as drewbie scouts the close positions,
Pool and gas now go down; 4 drones chase off an scv and a marine; IdrA gets his hatch up with 6 lings on the way..
Drewbie's CC is halfway done and drops a bunker.. The CC finishes and drewbie has 2 factories on the way with double refinery.. Gretorp hinting at blue flame hellions,
IdrA scouts BOTH factories and the tech lab! While pushes into drewbies natural to take out 2 scvs! Hellion preigniter upgrade is on the way;
IdrA adds on another extractor and continues to pump lings,
IdrA takes the 9oclock expansion; drewbie has 6 hellions out with 3 on the way; blue flame is almost done and the spire is on the way.. IdrA needs to delay..
Drewbie moves out with 9 hellions,
Zergligns get a massive surround on the 9 hellions! 3 remain, drones forced to be pulled.. 2 hellions left; they scout IdrA's main and then get taken out
Thors are on the way for drewbie as well as turrets..
Stim, vehicle weapons and infantry weapons upgrades on the way for drewbie - mutas are deflected by a Thor volley.. He continues to pump mutas with plus 1 air attack on the way..
Baneling nest is done; as is his evo chamber.. Drewbie has transitioned into Thors, tanks and marines.. Centrifugal hooks is being upgraded; mutas continue to be deflected by IdrA's mutas but allows for good map control.. Banelings morphing, level 2 air attack and melee attack level 1 on the way..
Drewbie also hitting up level 2 infantry attack and combat shields.. Now starting vehicle armor!
IdrA has taken his 4th at the 10oclock natural expansion; both macroing quite well;
IdrA's muta cloud cleans up a thor and turrets; drewbie moves out instead to force the issue; IdrA engages and cleans out drewbies army with ling, bling, muta!
A large group of marines survive and micro away from the banelings.. IdrA's overlord spotter gets taken out and now both players attempt to rebuild armies.. No thors remain for drewbie as he tries to slow push out his natural with bunkers and turrets; SO MANY BANELINGS!
IdrA sitting on 4 bases; huge engagement at drewbies natural choke; banelings target marines as they micro away.. Tanks go down! Another army trade.. drewbie was trying to build his 3rd base but gets denied by that push..
LOL get owned drewbie! Here come's the all kill! I used to argue with drewbie about IdrA being able to all kill ROOT and he said it was 'impossible' doesn't seem so impossible now..
On March 14 2011 11:55 ffz wrote: I can understand BM if you're serious about the game and care about the game. I don't understand bm just be be an asshole. All these observers also make it seem very amaturish for playoffs.
Drewbie tried to force IdrA to play DQ... If [mostmanneredPGofalltime] played Zerg, even he would've BMed Drewbie there.
i was talkign about Drewbie and Destiny and their chatting.
That hellion play by drewbie cost him the game.. IdrA completely shut it down with minimal losses; after that drewbie was contained and IdrA just expanded away..
On March 14 2011 12:05 Sernen wrote: Btw Gretorp, thank you for leaving health bars on, wish more casters would do this, tend to miss out on so much information when they're left off.
yeah, and the game just looks so weird without since thats what im used to
On March 14 2011 12:05 hmunkey wrote: It must feel like shit to lose close positions TvZ on LT.
Well, he did play IdrA lol
Yeah, he had the positional advantage, but that's not auto-win for anyone.
It is auto-win if you play it correctly and don't make any mistakes. Going hellion is not playing it correctly. Abusing the cliff and short rush distances are, and drewbie never did that.
Drewbie top 3 terran NA player, and cant macro on 2 bases, and goes for stupid hellion cheese on one of the worst map to do hellions. The standards of NA are pretty low I guess. IDra is gonna dominate this region.
On March 14 2011 12:05 hmunkey wrote: It must feel like shit to lose close positions TvZ on LT.
Well, he did play IdrA lol
Yeah, he had the positional advantage, but that's not auto-win for anyone.
It is auto-win if you play it correctly and don't make any mistakes. Going hellion is not playing it correctly. Abusing the cliff and short rush distances are, and drewbie never did that.
So if you played IdrA on Lost Temple in close positions as Terran, you would win?
(I agree that abusing the cliff would have been a better idea, and that his hellion harrass was an epic fail, obviously.)
going helions wasnt a bad choice. idra hardly had any defense at all. just 1 spine, 2 queens, and some speedlings. idra is either really skilled with his lings or drewbie messed up his micro, i suspect the latter.
On March 14 2011 12:09 Hider wrote: Drewbie top 3 terran NA player, and cant macro on 2 bases, and goes for stupid hellion cheese on one of the worst map to do hellions. The standards of NA are pretty low I guess. IDra is gonna dominate this region.
i agree its a bad map for hellions, but FE into blue flame is a good opener, i wouldn't call it a cheese
well i think part of the reason he went for hellions was because its a good opener on just about every other map and nobody practices LT anymore... so hes just not so great thinking on his feet maybe.. or was prob pissed about not being able to play DQ
On March 14 2011 12:13 bkrow wrote: ROOTKiWiKaKi vs EGIdrA coming up on Metalopolis! IdrA vetoed DQ again haha
IdrA spawns at the 7oclock position, Kiwi at the 1 oclock position - CROSS positions on metalopolis!
IdrA spots the scouting probe and drops his pool first; and then gas.. IdrA is allowed to drop the hatch; Kiwi must be annoyed hehe..
Queen just on the way now; Kiwi on 2 gas a bit early..
Double sentry on the way for Kiwi; taking a really defensive posture at the moment.. Drops 2 extra gateways for a 3gate total..
IdrA has his expansion up and drone transfers.. Kiwi looking to expand as well as he drops a pylon on the low ground.. Kiwi drops a FOURTH gate! But IdrA sneaks a ling in and scouts EVERYTHING!
On March 14 2011 12:13 bkrow wrote: ROOTKiWiKaKi vs EGIdrA coming up on Metalopolis! IdrA vetoed DQ again haha
IdrA spawns at the 7oclock position, Kiwi at the 1 oclock position - CROSS positions on metalopolis!
IdrA spots the scouting probe and drops his pool first; and then gas.. IdrA is allowed to drop the hatch; Kiwi must be annoyed hehe..
Queen just on the way now; Kiwi on 2 gas a bit early..
Double sentry on the way for Kiwi; taking a really defensive posture at the moment.. Drops 2 extra gateways for a 3gate total..
IdrA has his expansion up and drone transfers.. Kiwi looking to expand as well as he drops a pylon on the low ground.. Kiwi drops a FOURTH gate! But IdrA sneaks a ling in and scouts EVERYTHING!
IdrA drops spine crawlers as he sees the 4th gate! Lair is almost finished..
Kiwi moves out with a massive sentry heavy force with some zealots..
On March 14 2011 12:13 bkrow wrote: ROOTKiWiKaKi vs EGIdrA coming up on Metalopolis! IdrA vetoed DQ again haha
IdrA spawns at the 7oclock position, Kiwi at the 1 oclock position - CROSS positions on metalopolis!
IdrA spots the scouting probe and drops his pool first; and then gas.. IdrA is allowed to drop the hatch; Kiwi must be annoyed hehe..
Queen just on the way now; Kiwi on 2 gas a bit early..
Double sentry on the way for Kiwi; taking a really defensive posture at the moment.. Drops 2 extra gateways for a 3gate total..
IdrA has his expansion up and drone transfers.. Kiwi looking to expand as well as he drops a pylon on the low ground.. Kiwi drops a FOURTH gate! But IdrA sneaks a ling in and scouts EVERYTHING!
IdrA drops spine crawlers as he sees the 4th gate! Lair is almost finished..
Kiwi moves out with a massive sentry heavy force with some zealots..
Kiwikaki moves into IdrA's natural; roahces and lings on the way.. Kiwi uses some good FF to snipe the queen.. a ton of FF force an engagement on the ramp at his 3rd.. and IdrA loses all his lings..
Kiwi falls back and drops his robo and expansion.. Forge gets dropped by Kiwi, as he transitions into collossus; hallucinate is almost done for scouting; hydra den is halfway done! Level 1 missile attack and carapace starts as level 1 attack starts as well.. KIWI EXPANDS as well! 3 base vs 3 base at the moment..
IdrA drops a macro hatch and gets hydra range upgrade.. Thermal lance is on the way as a spire gets dropped; overlord speed has been done and scouts Kiwi's third expansion.. both players macroing well
On March 14 2011 12:13 bkrow wrote: ROOTKiWiKaKi vs EGIdrA coming up on Metalopolis! IdrA vetoed DQ again haha
IdrA spawns at the 7oclock position, Kiwi at the 1 oclock position - CROSS positions on metalopolis!
IdrA spots the scouting probe and drops his pool first; and then gas.. IdrA is allowed to drop the hatch; Kiwi must be annoyed hehe..
Queen just on the way now; Kiwi on 2 gas a bit early..
Double sentry on the way for Kiwi; taking a really defensive posture at the moment.. Drops 2 extra gateways for a 3gate total..
IdrA has his expansion up and drone transfers.. Kiwi looking to expand as well as he drops a pylon on the low ground.. Kiwi drops a FOURTH gate! But IdrA sneaks a ling in and scouts EVERYTHING!
IdrA drops spine crawlers as he sees the 4th gate! Lair is almost finished..
Kiwi moves out with a massive sentry heavy force with some zealots..
Kiwikaki moves into IdrA's natural; roahces and lings on the way.. Kiwi uses some good FF to snipe the queen.. a ton of FF force an engagement on the ramp at his 3rd.. and IdrA loses all his lings..
Kiwi falls back and drops his robo and expansion.. Forge gets dropped by Kiwi, as he transitions into collossus; hallucinate is almost done for scouting; hydra den is halfway done! Level 1 missile attack and carapace starts as level 1 attack starts as well.. KIWI EXPANDS as well! 3 base vs 3 base at the moment..
IdrA drops a macro hatch and gets hydra range upgrade.. Thermal lance is on the way as a spire gets dropped; overlord speed has been done and scouts Kiwi's third expansion.. both players macroing well
Corrupters have been started for IdrA, Kiwi has dropped his twilight council.. and MASS gateways! 4 additional gateways.. AND DESTINY LAGS!
Double forge almost up.. Kiwi is moving out with hallucinated collossus to make his death ball looking bigger; an engagement forces some forcefields and IdrA targets a REAL collossus not the hallucinated one
Kiwi massing stalkers with blink, IdrA snipes a stray collossus with corrupters! They draw the gateway army out and IdrA pounces with his roach/hydra army!
On March 14 2011 12:13 bkrow wrote: ROOTKiWiKaKi vs EGIdrA coming up on Metalopolis! IdrA vetoed DQ again haha
IdrA spawns at the 7oclock position, Kiwi at the 1 oclock position - CROSS positions on metalopolis!
IdrA spots the scouting probe and drops his pool first; and then gas.. IdrA is allowed to drop the hatch; Kiwi must be annoyed hehe..
Queen just on the way now; Kiwi on 2 gas a bit early..
Double sentry on the way for Kiwi; taking a really defensive posture at the moment.. Drops 2 extra gateways for a 3gate total..
IdrA has his expansion up and drone transfers.. Kiwi looking to expand as well as he drops a pylon on the low ground.. Kiwi drops a FOURTH gate! But IdrA sneaks a ling in and scouts EVERYTHING!
IdrA drops spine crawlers as he sees the 4th gate! Lair is almost finished..
Kiwi moves out with a massive sentry heavy force with some zealots..
Kiwikaki moves into IdrA's natural; roahces and lings on the way.. Kiwi uses some good FF to snipe the queen.. a ton of FF force an engagement on the ramp at his 3rd.. and IdrA loses all his lings..
Kiwi falls back and drops his robo and expansion.. Forge gets dropped by Kiwi, as he transitions into collossus; hallucinate is almost done for scouting; hydra den is halfway done! Level 1 missile attack and carapace starts as level 1 attack starts as well.. KIWI EXPANDS as well! 3 base vs 3 base at the moment..
IdrA drops a macro hatch and gets hydra range upgrade.. Thermal lance is on the way as a spire gets dropped; overlord speed has been done and scouts Kiwi's third expansion.. both players macroing well
Corrupters have been started for IdrA, Kiwi has dropped his twilight council.. and MASS gateways! 4 additional gateways.. AND DESTINY LAGS!
Double forge almost up.. Kiwi is moving out with hallucinated collossus to make his death ball looking bigger; an engagement forces some forcefields and IdrA targets a REAL collossus not the hallucinated one
Kiwi massing stalkers with blink, IdrA snipes a stray collossus with corrupters! They draw the gateway army out and IdrA pounces with his roach/hydra army!
Kiwi's blink micro is huge! IdrA seems to have overproduced corrupters and needs to rebuild his army.. Both players on 4 bases which is incredibly scary for IdrA :/ 4 base Protoss?
There is a MASSIVE stalker army with blink; and a stargate is up now! IdrA scouts with his corruptors and almost loses one; IdrA's creep spread is really great but Kiwi is sitting on the same amount of bases!
IdrA engages by Kiwi's gold! The Hydras dps is to much for Kiwi as he has to back out; Hive tech is being researched.. Another engagement with mass stalker blink micro cleans up IdrA's ground army..
gretorp keeps saying that the hallucinated colossus made idra overcommit to corruptors but he didn't make any in response to them and hasn't made any since t_t
kiwikaki going for archon toilet? or blinkstalker/mothership like he did in scri?
On March 14 2011 12:13 bkrow wrote: ROOTKiWiKaKi vs EGIdrA coming up on Metalopolis! IdrA vetoed DQ again haha
IdrA spawns at the 7oclock position, Kiwi at the 1 oclock position - CROSS positions on metalopolis!
IdrA spots the scouting probe and drops his pool first; and then gas.. IdrA is allowed to drop the hatch; Kiwi must be annoyed hehe..
Queen just on the way now; Kiwi on 2 gas a bit early..
Double sentry on the way for Kiwi; taking a really defensive posture at the moment.. Drops 2 extra gateways for a 3gate total..
IdrA has his expansion up and drone transfers.. Kiwi looking to expand as well as he drops a pylon on the low ground.. Kiwi drops a FOURTH gate! But IdrA sneaks a ling in and scouts EVERYTHING!
IdrA drops spine crawlers as he sees the 4th gate! Lair is almost finished..
Kiwi moves out with a massive sentry heavy force with some zealots..
Kiwikaki moves into IdrA's natural; roahces and lings on the way.. Kiwi uses some good FF to snipe the queen.. a ton of FF force an engagement on the ramp at his 3rd.. and IdrA loses all his lings..
Kiwi falls back and drops his robo and expansion.. Forge gets dropped by Kiwi, as he transitions into collossus; hallucinate is almost done for scouting; hydra den is halfway done! Level 1 missile attack and carapace starts as level 1 attack starts as well.. KIWI EXPANDS as well! 3 base vs 3 base at the moment..
IdrA drops a macro hatch and gets hydra range upgrade.. Thermal lance is on the way as a spire gets dropped; overlord speed has been done and scouts Kiwi's third expansion.. both players macroing well
Corrupters have been started for IdrA, Kiwi has dropped his twilight council.. and MASS gateways! 4 additional gateways.. AND DESTINY LAGS!
Double forge almost up.. Kiwi is moving out with hallucinated collossus to make his death ball looking bigger; an engagement forces some forcefields and IdrA targets a REAL collossus not the hallucinated one
Kiwi massing stalkers with blink, IdrA snipes a stray collossus with corrupters! They draw the gateway army out and IdrA pounces with his roach/hydra army!
Kiwi's blink micro is huge! IdrA seems to have overproduced corrupters and needs to rebuild his army.. Both players on 4 bases which is incredibly scary for IdrA :/ 4 base Protoss?
There is a MASSIVE stalker army with blink; and a stargate is up now! IdrA scouts with his corruptors and almost loses one; IdrA's creep spread is really great but Kiwi is sitting on the same amount of bases!
IdrA engages by Kiwi's gold! The Hydras dps is to much for Kiwi as he has to back out; Hive tech is being researched.. Another engagement with mass stalker blink micro cleans up IdrA's ground army..
Another engagement at IdrA's gold but Kiwi has gone MASS MASS MASS stalker and wipes out IdrA..
On March 14 2011 12:31 Tachion wrote: Why does Idra get so many lings this far into ZvP :o they just evaporate immediately and seem like a waste of supply...
Hydra just can't pressure off-creep, regardless of how well they perform vs stalker, and 3 base zerg vs 3 base toss you have to pressure no matter what or you lose to the eventual deathball.
On March 14 2011 12:32 FrostyTreats wrote: nice mind games by kiwi ;0 was surprised he held tho... had some poor macro... and didnt really agree with him continuing collos production ggs
Sitting on equal bases to IdrA i don't think it was an issue haha.. His micro won him the game
On March 14 2011 12:30 hmunkey wrote: Hahahaha hydras are so hilariously bad.
Yeah guess what, he had more stalkers?
Yeah but the point is IdrA realized he had a few less hydras, but he still had to fight it out. Earlier when Kiwi was outnumbered, he just ran away. Hydras are bad because they can't really escape from anything.
i think idra could have held on if he didnt try to retreat those hydras. would have been better to just let them die while they are doing damage. would have weakened that stalker ball more so and allow him to rebuild.
would it be different if idra held 4-5 hydralisk production and made infestors instead. and use it on blink stalkers with hydras, may be a defensive stance?
Hydras are so terribly slow off creep, they get punished for being offensive. Must stay on creep aka be defensive or they will all die if you decide to pull back.
Did anyone see that sexy ass ff that kept him in the game, when IdrA was pushing into the natural with a huge army, then half of it got caught behind 3 forcefields and Kiwi picked off the units as they filed into him one by one? The AI of forcefielded units is hilarious though, I love how they just have a little rave party behind them.
I don't think Idra lost because of Hydras, he attacked too soon and too far. He wasnt expecting such a big army. The fake colossi was a nice idea bu it didnt work, he didnt lose much trying it.
On March 14 2011 12:33 Daoism wrote: idra always looks strong in the beginning. but when the toss gets the deathball going he just crumbles it seems.
Honest question: what Zergs don't crumble to that? I mean, I haven't seen a single Zerg handle that in a reasonable manner, even when they're up on bases.
On March 14 2011 12:34 DAMMERUNG wrote: would it be different if idra held 4-5 hydralisk production and made infestors instead. and use it on blink stalkers with hydras, may be a defensive stance?
Infestors were being made, but his main army died before they got out
I liked the fact that KiWiKaKi hallucinated a bunch of colossi early on so that IdrA would overcommit to making corruptors. Pretty clever, especially when we saw about 15 completely useless corruptors ^^
On March 14 2011 12:30 hmunkey wrote: Hahahaha hydras are so hilariously bad.
Yeah guess what, he had more stalkers?
Yeah but the point is IdrA realized he had a few less hydras, but he still had to fight it out. Earlier when Kiwi was outnumbered, he just ran away. Hydras are bad because they can't really escape from anything.
That was the big difference in the game. Idra was short on a couple of hydras and maybe more zerglings. While how many pushes in that game did Kiwi just turned around and walk away?
On March 14 2011 12:36 DarkPlasmaBall wrote: I liked the fact that KiWiKaKi hallucinated a bunch of colossi early on so that IdrA would overcommit to making corruptors. Pretty clever, especially when we saw about 15 completely useless corruptors ^^
Protoss freely expanding, hmmmmm. Kiwikaki's ball was pretty much in front of his natural every single time, and there was never any extended pressure on any of Kiwi's expansions. IIIRC he was even ahead in Probes for a large portion of the game.
On March 14 2011 12:34 DAMMERUNG wrote: would it be different if idra held 4-5 hydralisk production and made infestors instead. and use it on blink stalkers with hydras, may be a defensive stance?
Infestors were being made, but his main army died before they got out
I saw that infestors were being made on production tab. my question was if he had infestors way before when idra hindered the number of colossi.
On March 14 2011 12:35 Heavenly wrote: Did anyone see that sexy ass ff that kept him in the game, when IdrA was pushing into the natural with a huge army, then half of it got caught behind 3 forcefields and Kiwi picked off the units as they filed into him one by one? The AI of forcefielded units is hilarious though, I love how they just have a little rave party behind them.
More like sexy palm trees outside kiwi's natural that didn't let IdrA units past... more stupid map additions to make chokes.
On March 14 2011 12:38 Skillz_Man wrote: I'm very curious if it was Kiwikakis intention to let IdrA scout that 4 gate since it seemed like he put no effort in hiding it.
Kiwi did the same exact build in the scl finals vs vVv on the same map.
kiwikaki took a risk in essentially double expading after his 4gate got scouted, and it paid off. He cut so many production cycles and teched, I don't think he could have held 2 base roach pressure. But maybe he just had a good read on how idra plays.
After that base is up all slowly goes south for the zerg, it's not really a matter of hydra control or unit composition. Idra should know this very well, but maybe he simply scouted the 3rd just a tad too late.
On March 14 2011 12:35 Heavenly wrote: Did anyone see that sexy ass ff that kept him in the game, when IdrA was pushing into the natural with a huge army, then half of it got caught behind 3 forcefields and Kiwi picked off the units as they filed into him one by one? The AI of forcefielded units is hilarious though, I love how they just have a little rave party behind them.
More like sexy palm trees outside kiwi's natural that didn't let IdrA units past... more stupid map additions to make chokes.
That's what I meant, the forcefield placement abused that perfectly or kiwi may have just outright died.
On March 14 2011 12:38 bkrow wrote: ROOTKiWiKaKi vs EGStrifeCro on Blistering Sands coming up now!
Kiwi spawns at the 7/8 oclock position, Strifecro at the 2 oclock position..
Kiwi going 14 gateway, while Strife goes pool & gas first.. Strife still hasn't dropped his expo; 2 gases now for Kiwi and Strife gets a scout in..
Strife now drops his expo.. seemed really late?
edit: was around 21/22
Kiwi drops a 4th gateway; looking similar to the last game! Roach warren is almost done for Strife..
Please open the production tab
6 sentries out for Kiwi - looking for that zealot, sentry push.. Kiwi moves out into IdrA's natural; forcefields block the ramp to the main; strifecro trying to hold until the spine crawlers can pop.. Roaches on the way for StrifeCro as Kiwi backs off.. Expands and drops a robo
Glial reconstitution is on the way as well as burrow.. so lair is obviously done Collossus tech is on the way for Kiwi, Strife drops an evo chamber.. Strife goes up to snipe the zealot at the watchtower and Kiwi force fields roaches on the platform! and Kiwi wipes most of them out! very clever play by Kiwi!
On March 14 2011 12:40 1Eris1 wrote: IdrA should just not make hydras. go go roaches.
hydra are so good against stalkers though, and they have more range. if he went roach it would have been a lot worse for idra
Not really, thats a myth. Hydras barely even beat stalkers cost for cost.
well its all relaitve, roach are good cos of their health, stalker are good cos of their insane DPS. in an equal cost fight ling hydra will dominate mass stalker
IdrA didn't even lose many hydra to colossus before they died, but hydra are simply just not good vs stalkers that 1. have blink, 2. are off creep, 3. have chokes, 4. have force fields.
I agree he should of got roaches, but only because it's the ONLY thing that would of worked. IdrA couldn't attack kiwi's third because zerglings can't fight cannons + force field, and hydra cannot do shit off creep... only roaches or mass muta can be used to counter greedy protoss..
On March 14 2011 12:33 Daoism wrote: idra always looks strong in the beginning. but when the toss gets the deathball going he just crumbles it seems.
Honest question: what Zergs don't crumble to that? I mean, I haven't seen a single Zerg handle that in a reasonable manner, even when they're up on bases.
bad choice of words on my part. your right. what i mean is that zergs in general always have that nice flow when allowed to macro. but then they have that one crucial engagment and get stomped and it just feels like they just crumble because they cant do anything.
On March 14 2011 12:38 bkrow wrote: ROOTKiWiKaKi vs EGStrifeCro on Blistering Sands coming up now!
Kiwi spawns at the 7/8 oclock position, Strifecro at the 2 oclock position..
Kiwi going 14 gateway, while Strife goes pool & gas first.. Strife still hasn't dropped his expo; 2 gases now for Kiwi and Strife gets a scout in..
Strife now drops his expo.. seemed really late?
edit: was around 21/22
Kiwi drops a 4th gateway; looking similar to the last game! Roach warren is almost done for Strife..
Please open the production tab
6 sentries out for Kiwi - looking for that zealot, sentry push.. Kiwi moves out into IdrA's natural; forcefields block the ramp to the main; strifecro trying to hold until the spine crawlers can pop.. Roaches on the way for StrifeCro as Kiwi backs off.. Expands and drops a robo
Glial reconstitution is on the way as well as burrow.. so lair is obviously done Collossus tech is on the way for Kiwi, Strife drops an evo chamber.. Strife goes up to snipe the zealot at the watchtower and Kiwi force fields roaches on the platform! and Kiwi wipes most of them out! very clever play by Kiwi!
Collossus are on the way; Kiwi is ahead in harvesters and Kiwi is motioning to take the gold expansion.. While Strifecro has already taken his but has to stop Kiwi from mirroring his expansion rate..
115 supply for Kiwi.. Strife motions towards Kiwi's rocks but has to back off.. No spire is up and collossus are out.. Kiwi is just dominating the whole map with every engagement he forces Strife to back out..
Strife is able to sneak into Kiwi's main and then natural and targets some probes - he forces them to stop mining and kills some.. Kiwi has his gold expansion up; Strife tries to harass it but is forced back.. Mass roach for StrifeCro; did he not see Kiwikaki's stalker micro
On March 14 2011 12:38 bkrow wrote: ROOTKiWiKaKi vs EGStrifeCro on Blistering Sands coming up now!
Kiwi spawns at the 7/8 oclock position, Strifecro at the 2 oclock position..
Kiwi going 14 gateway, while Strife goes pool & gas first.. Strife still hasn't dropped his expo; 2 gases now for Kiwi and Strife gets a scout in..
Strife now drops his expo.. seemed really late?
edit: was around 21/22
Kiwi drops a 4th gateway; looking similar to the last game! Roach warren is almost done for Strife..
Please open the production tab
6 sentries out for Kiwi - looking for that zealot, sentry push.. Kiwi moves out into IdrA's natural; forcefields block the ramp to the main; strifecro trying to hold until the spine crawlers can pop.. Roaches on the way for StrifeCro as Kiwi backs off.. Expands and drops a robo
Glial reconstitution is on the way as well as burrow.. so lair is obviously done Collossus tech is on the way for Kiwi, Strife drops an evo chamber.. Strife goes up to snipe the zealot at the watchtower and Kiwi force fields roaches on the platform! and Kiwi wipes most of them out! very clever play by Kiwi!
Collossus are on the way; Kiwi is ahead in harvesters and Kiwi is motioning to take the gold expansion.. While Strifecro has already taken his but has to stop Kiwi from mirroring his expansion rate..
115 supply for Kiwi.. Strife motions towards Kiwi's rocks but has to back off.. No spire is up and collossus are out.. Kiwi is just dominating the whole map with every engagement he forces Strife to back out..
Strife is able to sneak into Kiwi's main and then natural and targets some probes - he forces them to stop mining and kills some.. Kiwi has his gold expansion up; Strife tries to harass it but is forced back.. Mass roach for StrifeCro; did he not see Kiwikaki's stalker micro
Strifecro pushes into Kiwi's gold and gets completely flanked by Kiwi's main army.. and all his roaches get cleaned up..
139 supply for Kiwi vs 120 for Strife.. More roaches being sent to their death at Kiwi's gold.. Blink is on the way as he noticed the mass roach play; Strife starts mixing in some lings but there is nothing to counter the collossus.. Both players move into each others gold!
On March 14 2011 12:47 Mailing wrote: Are you people really arguing idra's build? :|
He went hydra/ling/corruptor.
Kiwi went colossus/stalker.
IdrA didn't even lose many hydra to colossus before they died, but hydra are simply just not good vs stalkers that 1. have blink, 2. are off creep, 3. have chokes, 4. have force fields.
I agree he should of got roaches, but only because it's the ONLY thing that would of worked. IdrA couldn't attack kiwi's third because zerglings can't fight cannons + force field, and hydra cannot do shit off creep... only roaches or mass muta can be used to counter greedy protoss..
if roach was better than ling hydra, wouldnt idra have gone roach? hes the best foreign zerg, and one of the best zergs in the world. im pretty sure he knows the best way to play vs late game blink stalker
On March 14 2011 12:47 Mailing wrote: Are you people really arguing idra's build? :|
He went hydra/ling/corruptor.
Kiwi went colossus/stalker.
IdrA didn't even lose many hydra to colossus before they died, but hydra are simply just not good vs stalkers that 1. have blink, 2. are off creep, 3. have chokes, 4. have force fields.
I agree he should of got roaches, but only because it's the ONLY thing that would of worked. IdrA couldn't attack kiwi's third because zerglings can't fight cannons + force field, and hydra cannot do shit off creep... only roaches or mass muta can be used to counter greedy protoss..
if roach was better than ling hydra, wouldnt idra have gone roach? hes the best foreign zerg, and one of the best zergs in the world. im pretty sure he knows the best way to play vs late game blink stalker
Kiwi takes out Strife's main, as Strife takes out Kiwi's main.. It has turned into a base race, but Kiwi looks much stronger.. Base Race! Go go go!
edit: lol wrong quote but you get the idea
Kiwi pulls back to fend off Strife's forces.. and Strife pulls out; Kiwi catches his army and wipes out his army .. Kiwi still has a massive ball left and Strife GGs!
On March 14 2011 12:40 1Eris1 wrote: IdrA should just not make hydras. go go roaches.
hydra are so good against stalkers though, and they have more range. if he went roach it would have been a lot worse for idra
Not really, thats a myth. Hydras barely even beat stalkers cost for cost.
well its all relaitve, roach are good cos of their health, stalker are good cos of their insane DPS. in an equal cost fight ling hydra will dominate mass stalker
You're ignoring blink. Normal stalkers get crushed by hydras, good blink micro throws all the math off. I don't think they're imbalanced though. Now that infestors deal extra damage to armored infestor/hydra will obliterate blink stalkers.
Idra needed either infestors or ultras, or both. And yes, ultras are great against blink stalkers. They both deal critical damage to them and tank lots of damage while hydras DPS. They actually force blink stalkers to immediately run away or die.
On March 14 2011 12:40 1Eris1 wrote: IdrA should just not make hydras. go go roaches.
hydra are so good against stalkers though, and they have more range. if he went roach it would have been a lot worse for idra
Not really, thats a myth. Hydras barely even beat stalkers cost for cost.
well its all relaitve, roach are good cos of their health, stalker are good cos of their insane DPS. in an equal cost fight ling hydra will dominate mass stalker
You're ignoring blink. Normal stalkers get crushed by hydras, good blink micro throws all the math off. I don't think they're imbalanced though. Now that infestors deal extra damage to armored infestor/hydra will obliterate blink stalkers.
Idra needed either infestors or ultras, or both. And yes, ultras are great against blink stalkers. They both deal critical damage to them and tank lots of damage while hydras DPS. They actually force blink stalkers to immediately run away or die.
Blink has the same affect on roach as it does hydra.
idra was going for hydra/infestor. he had some infestors out at the very end, but kiwikaki had already won
Damn, Kiwikaki plays this matchup so well. His opening unreinforced sentry-zealot 4-gate w/expansion behind is sexy as hell, and them he plays a great macro game followup.
seems to me like kiwikaki likes to make a few collos then do a huge tech switch.. with the main idea behind the strat being that the zerg overmakes corrupters.
On March 14 2011 12:56 Mailing wrote: Has any protoss tried to make their deathball, then go base trade, after making a mothership?
If zerg counter attacks and tries to base trade (like strife), protoss can just recall back and kill the army?
Want to see that so bad
KiWiKaKi has made mass stalkers and gone around sniping hatcheries and then recalled home. There was a really famous game where he did that on XNC. He's such an innovative guy
On March 14 2011 12:55 DarkPlasmaBall wrote: Domination by KiWiKaKi on BS
3-3... I wonder if EG is regretting their decision to let KiWi play
Ace match now!
I have to agree... I think EG would have done better playing 3v4 and not having to deal with KiWiKaKi. I expect both IdrA and Axslav would have had a better chance taking ddoro out.
On March 14 2011 12:40 1Eris1 wrote: IdrA should just not make hydras. go go roaches.
hydra are so good against stalkers though, and they have more range. if he went roach it would have been a lot worse for idra
Not really, thats a myth. Hydras barely even beat stalkers cost for cost.
well its all relaitve, roach are good cos of their health, stalker are good cos of their insane DPS. in an equal cost fight ling hydra will dominate mass stalker
You're ignoring blink. Normal stalkers get crushed by hydras, good blink micro throws all the math off. I don't think they're imbalanced though. Now that infestors deal extra damage to armored infestor/hydra will obliterate blink stalkers.
Idra needed either infestors or ultras, or both. And yes, ultras are great against blink stalkers. They both deal critical damage to them and tank lots of damage while hydras DPS. They actually force blink stalkers to immediately run away or die.
Ultras are a joke vs blink stalkers. Actually they're generally a joke in ZvP overall. They're only good if you have a huge economy to dump against an opponent relying too much on sentries (or if you already won).
On March 14 2011 12:57 FrostyTreats wrote: seems to me like kiwikaki likes to make a few collos then do a huge tech switch.. with the main idea behind the strat being that the zerg overmakes corrupters.
Yeah except when the Zerg doesn't overmake corrupters (like IdrA, who made 8 corrupters which ended up killing 4 colossi), he still wins. I'm pretty sure that's not his plan at all. On top of that, he continued making colossi vs. IdrA in that game.
On March 14 2011 12:55 DarkPlasmaBall wrote: Domination by KiWiKaKi on BS
3-3... I wonder if EG is regretting their decision to let KiWi play
Ace match now!
I have to agree... I think EG would have done better playing 3v4 and not having to deal with KiWiKaKi. I expect both IdrA and Axslav would have had a better chance taking ddoro out.
Probably, but Ddoro is not bad himself. I don't understand why they didn't let Axslav play twice though, given ROOT's only condition was IdrA doesn't play twice.
On March 14 2011 12:56 Mailing wrote: Has any protoss tried to make their deathball, then go base trade, after making a mothership?
If zerg counter attacks and tries to base trade (like strife), protoss can just recall back and kill the army?
Want to see that so bad
Don't have to force a base trade with a deathball, its called a deathball for a reason because you can you know..go kill them. Thats their base and army included.
kinda sad how the kiwi idra game came out but thats more the state of the game. All the other kiwi games were fun and just shows why he's a fan favorite. grats Root!
EG would be doing a lot better if their players actually showed up... It isn't the first time where they show up to a clanwar with a less than complete roster. Disappointing end, but ggs all around.
i was trying to hard counter a korean zlot 4 gate b/c there's 0 % chance i'd win if he did a normal 4 gate on that map with his micro anyway. When i saw he wasn't taking his guys off gas i tried to fix it but it was a little late and like i said i'd never win in a 4 gate stalker mirror anyway.
On March 14 2011 13:09 Axslav wrote: i was trying to hard counter a korean zlot 4 gate b/c there's 0 % chance i'd win if he did a normal 4 gate on that map with his micro anyway. When i saw he wasn't taking his guys off gas i tried to fix it but it was a little late and like i said i'd never win in a 4 gate stalker mirror anyway.
nice to see you had an explanation and didnt just forget gas
So after IdrA went 3-0 and DdoRo was on board, I thought it was over. Then KiWi stepped in. I know and love KiWi as the workhorse of Root. As soon as I saw him step in, I knew he was going to pull a Neil Peart Drum Solo and destroy the rest of EG. Plus, telling my friend (who is a huge IdrA fan) that KiWi went 4gate then out-macro'ed IdrA on 4 bases was so sweet. Good luck in the finals Root!
On March 14 2011 13:11 Hoban wrote: Oh man this was such a sick bout!!! + Show Spoiler +
So after IdrA went 3-0 and DdoRo was on board, I thought it was over. Then KiWi stepped in. I know and love KiWi as the workhorse of Root. As soon as I saw him step in, I knew he was going to pull a Neil Peart Drum Solo and destroy the rest of EG. Plus, telling my friend (who is a huge IdrA fan) that KiWi went 4gate then out-macro'ed IdrA on 4 bases was so sweet. Good luck in the finals Root!
On March 14 2011 13:09 Axslav wrote: i was trying to hard counter a korean zlot 4 gate b/c there's 0 % chance i'd win if he did a normal 4 gate on that map with his micro anyway. When i saw he wasn't taking his guys off gas i tried to fix it but it was a little late and like i said i'd never win in a 4 gate stalker mirror anyway.
Wish I could have seen it. His micro is really good. I didn't know it was that good..
On March 14 2011 13:11 Hoban wrote: Oh man this was such a sick bout!!! + Show Spoiler +
So after IdrA went 3-0 and DdoRo was on board, I thought it was over. Then KiWi stepped in. I know and love KiWi as the workhorse of Root. As soon as I saw him step in, I knew he was going to pull a Neil Peart Drum Solo and destroy the rest of EG. Plus, telling my friend (who is a huge IdrA fan) that KiWi went 4gate then out-macro'ed IdrA on 4 bases was so sweet. Good luck in the finals Root!
that isnt really correct, it was a 4gate sentry expand with pressure. and he didnt get a forge as soon as he expanded so it barely hindered his economy at all
On March 14 2011 13:09 Axslav wrote: there's 0 % chance i'd win if he did a normal 4 gate on that map with his micro anyway. i'd never win in a 4 gate stalker mirror anyway.
What a great compliment to KiWiKaKi, especially considering the calibre of Axslav!
On March 14 2011 13:09 Thrax wrote: EG would be doing a lot better if their players actually showed up... It isn't the first time where they show up to a clanwar with a less than complete roster. Disappointing end, but ggs all around.
First off there werent any 'exchanges' like "KiWi can play if we can play Strife twice" we weren't expecting KiWi or SLush to be able to make it to the cw because they were at a LAN but the LAN ended early.
Colbi couldn't get ahold of Machine at the time, so he asked me if one of their players could play twice and I said yes, as long as it wasn't IdrA.
After I asked Colbi if we could use KiWi as he was able to show up due to the LAN ending early, and EG kindly agreed. We woulda had kiwi in our lineup from the start anyways obviously if he didn't have a LAN to attend to.
Machine did show up, he just showed up late, im sure he had something important to do, but he did show up, and when he showed up, we told EG it was fine with us to either use Machine or to use strifecro twice as we had already agreed to that.
Good games, always nice close clanwars vs EG, we look forward to meeting again in the future, and im sure we will =)
great games by both teams.. we'll see if ROOT can take their second season in a row of the SGL next week! find the replays at the sgl website, www.sgleague.net
On March 14 2011 13:11 plasemeious wrote: Why did strike play twice instead of idra?
On March 14 2011 13:17 CatZ.root wrote:Colbi couldn't get ahold of Machine at the time, so he asked me if one of their players could play twice and I said yes, as long as it wasn't IdrA.
On March 14 2011 13:13 sAfuRos wrote: You should have tried axlav :/
I did try, going stalker mirror vs kiwi would have been not trying as that's by far the strongest part of his game, what I did gave me a chance if he did something else and would have put me really far ahead if he went for the korean 4 gate (which most players wouldn't do but I know he likes to do weird stuff sometimes).
On March 14 2011 13:09 Thrax wrote: EG would be doing a lot better if their players actually showed up... It isn't the first time where they show up to a clanwar with a less than complete roster. Disappointing end, but ggs all around.
First off there werent any 'exchanges' like "KiWi can play if we can play Strife twice" we weren't expecting KiWi or SLush to be able to make it to the cw because they were at a LAN but the LAN ended early.
Colbi couldn't get ahold of Machine at the time, so he asked me if one of their players could play twice and I said yes, as long as it wasn't IdrA.
After I asked Colbi if we could use KiWi as he was able to show up due to the LAN ending early, and EG kindly agreed. We woulda had kiwi in our lineup from the start anyways obviously if he didn't have a LAN to attend to.
Machine did show up, he just showed up late, im sure he had something important to do, but he did show up, and when he showed up, we told EG it was fine with us to either use Machine or to use strifecro twice as we had already agreed to that.
Good games, always nice close clanwars vs EG, we look forward to meeting again in the future, and im sure we will =)
Thanks CatZ! GG's ROOT! Well played and hopefully we will meet again soon
On March 14 2011 13:13 sAfuRos wrote: You should have tried axlav :/
I did try, going stalker mirror vs kiwi would have been not trying as that's by far the strongest part of his game, what I did gave me a chance if he did something else and would have put me really far ahead if he went for the korean 4 gate (which most players wouldn't do but I know he likes to do weird stuff sometimes).
Thats not very confident...if he's not tip top or he makes one single error you can take the lead by defensively 4 warpgating; you get the first couple hits off because of the high ground. It seems to me like you, being a pro, would not just flat out lose 100% of the time :/
Is it me or is JustinTV's video seek feature completely broken? If I try skip a head and it hasn't preloaded on the vod, it becomes increadibly laggy and there is no sound :S
On March 14 2011 13:38 Dommk wrote: Is it me or is JustinTV's video seek feature completely broken? If I try skip a head and it hasn't preloaded on the vod, it becomes increadibly laggy and there is no sound :S
I also have the same problems with vods on justin.tv, when i skip ahead, i lose the sound, anyone knows of a solution?
On March 14 2011 13:29 monx wrote: Finally, not a shame our LAN finished early due to technical problems. KiWiKaKi couldn't have done this otherwise GG great games.
Thank you monx for letting KiWiKaKi help Root win!
And I apologize for my flawed recollection of the earlier bouts. KiWiKaKi playing just gets me too hot and bothered to remember what I was doing beforehand.
On March 14 2011 13:13 sAfuRos wrote: You should have tried axlav :/
I did try, going stalker mirror vs kiwi would have been not trying as that's by far the strongest part of his game, what I did gave me a chance if he did something else and would have put me really far ahead if he went for the korean 4 gate (which most players wouldn't do but I know he likes to do weird stuff sometimes).
Thats not very confident...if he's not tip top or he makes one single error you can take the lead by defensively 4 warpgating; you get the first couple hits off because of the high ground. It seems to me like you, being a pro, would not just flat out lose 100% of the time :/
It was a reasonable meta-game choice. It's good to hear a player who knows his weakness relative to another player's strength. But given the state of PvP all this really means is that Axslav needs to practice his own stalker micro more or veto maps like Scrap Station.
Honestly, going in with 3 Zergs (even if one of them is IdrA) under the current meta-game wasn't the best idea from EG though it's not like they had a choice. Against a team like ROOT with strong Protoss players the best solution right now is to have a strong PvP specialist or an awesome TvP specialist. Disallowing Kiwikaki might've given EG a chance but it would've been BM or cowardly they probably thought. So props for facing up to the best line-up that ROOT can put forth at the current time (at least until Qxc gets back in shape or GosiTerran decides he can own it up in tournaments).
ONE vs. ROOT will be interesting with the Terran-heavy line-up ONE typically fields.
On March 14 2011 13:48 EchelonTee wrote: Yeah does EG have any other T besides DeMuslim o.O I'm all for the zerg love but racial variety is a must in clan wars.
Anyways GGs for Idra, too bad on the AK deny. Kiwi definitely wasn't abusive in his play but PvZ is quite hard atm.
wasn't abusive? It's not like he straight up cheesed or something but he definitely abused the matchup (and he should).
On March 14 2011 13:48 EchelonTee wrote: Yeah does EG have any other T besides DeMuslim o.O I'm all for the zerg love but racial variety is a must in clan wars.
Anyways GGs for Idra, too bad on the AK deny. Kiwi definitely wasn't abusive in his play but PvZ is quite hard atm.
wasn't abusive? It's not like he straight up cheesed or something but he definitely abused the matchup (and he should).
It says there are 'Replays' on the SGL Battle Report. There is a link to Gretorp's VODs...but he doesn't have VODs...WTF! Gretorp said at the end of the stream that there would be replays released on the SGL website... this blows.
On March 14 2011 14:55 Misanthrope wrote: It says there are 'Replays' on the SGL Battle Report. There is a link to Gretorp's VODs...but he doesn't have VODs...WTF! Gretorp said at the end of the stream that there would be replays released on the SGL website... this blows.
The replays are up you just have to click on the map name to dl them.
On March 14 2011 14:55 Misanthrope wrote: It says there are 'Replays' on the SGL Battle Report. There is a link to Gretorp's VODs...but he doesn't have VODs...WTF! Gretorp said at the end of the stream that there would be replays released on the SGL website... this blows.
The replays are up you just have to click on the map name to dl them.
Not surprised by Axslavs decision. He was never known to have great micro in wc3 either. Sucks that the mirror is so micro intensive early, but I think on most maps with small ramps the defensive 4 gate would help him but scrap theres no way to prevent an all out 4 gate micro battle :x
This was such a fun clan war to watch. Seeing Axslav go down like that was a bummer, hes one of my favorite players.
I really apologize for the streaming issues on the first map. Honestly, I am new to casting and while yesterday in the ONE vs FnaticMSI war I knew there was some issues but I had no idea they were this bad. Gretorp was kind enough after to point me in the right direction to fix the problem.
Congrats to ROOT, EG is never an easy team to play. We look forward to playing you in the finals this week.
On March 14 2011 13:13 sAfuRos wrote: You should have tried axlav :/
I did try, going stalker mirror vs kiwi would have been not trying as that's by far the strongest part of his game, what I did gave me a chance if he did something else and would have put me really far ahead if he went for the korean 4 gate (which most players wouldn't do but I know he likes to do weird stuff sometimes).
Yea I feel you. You never want to go up with blink stalkers against Kiwi - not only is his micro a whole nother level above... but blink stalkers vs blink stalkers is so unforgiving because it's so difficult to retreat and you are bound to lose a few stalkers while doing so.
On March 15 2011 01:22 Nourek wrote: Is it just me, or do the VODs on justin.tv/sgleague only cover about 30 minutes?
Well, I watched some of the replays so there was that, but I'd rather have watched it casted.
there was some trouble in the cast midway on our sgleague channel, Gretorp thankfully took over after the first game. We should have it fixed by finals
On March 14 2011 13:13 sAfuRos wrote: You should have tried axlav :/
I did try, going stalker mirror vs kiwi would have been not trying as that's by far the strongest part of his game, what I did gave me a chance if he did something else and would have put me really far ahead if he went for the korean 4 gate (which most players wouldn't do but I know he likes to do weird stuff sometimes).
Thats not very confident...if he's not tip top or he makes one single error you can take the lead by defensively 4 warpgating; you get the first couple hits off because of the high ground. It seems to me like you, being a pro, would not just flat out lose 100% of the time :/
It was a reasonable meta-game choice. It's good to hear a player who knows his weakness relative to another player's strength. But given the state of PvP all this really means is that Axslav needs to practice his own stalker micro more or veto maps like Scrap Station.
Well you have to understand just how beastly Kiwi's blink stalkers are. I don't think there's any pro out there that would be confident going blink stalker vs blink stalker against him. Axslav is extremely smart and did what he felt was his best option to win.
On March 14 2011 13:13 sAfuRos wrote: You should have tried axlav :/
I did try, going stalker mirror vs kiwi would have been not trying as that's by far the strongest part of his game, what I did gave me a chance if he did something else and would have put me really far ahead if he went for the korean 4 gate (which most players wouldn't do but I know he likes to do weird stuff sometimes).
Thats not very confident...if he's not tip top or he makes one single error you can take the lead by defensively 4 warpgating; you get the first couple hits off because of the high ground. It seems to me like you, being a pro, would not just flat out lose 100% of the time :/
Are you putting down my favorite Protoss? You cut that out.
On March 14 2011 13:48 EchelonTee wrote: Yeah does EG have any other T besides DeMuslim o.O I'm all for the zerg love but racial variety is a must in clan wars.
Anyways GGs for Idra, too bad on the AK deny. Kiwi definitely wasn't abusive in his play but PvZ is quite hard atm.
wasn't abusive? It's not like he straight up cheesed or something but he definitely abused the matchup (and he should).
Then what did he abuse?
He did a 4gate pressure build while expanding and teching, thats pretty abusive, you shouldnt be able to do all 3, IdrA posted about the "fairness" of this in this thread.
On March 14 2011 14:25 Axslav wrote: ofc i'd veto scrap station, but its his veto not mine
On March 14 2011 13:13 sAfuRos wrote: You should have tried axlav :/
I did try, going stalker mirror vs kiwi would have been not trying as that's by far the strongest part of his game, what I did gave me a chance if he did something else and would have put me really far ahead if he went for the korean 4 gate (which most players wouldn't do but I know he likes to do weird stuff sometimes).
Yea I feel you. You never want to go up with blink stalkers against Kiwi - not only is his micro a whole nother level above... but blink stalkers vs blink stalkers is so unforgiving because it's so difficult to retreat and you are bound to lose a few stalkers while doing so.
u do know this is sc2 right? u wanna real micro sc1 < go
Amazing games guys. Very entertaining all around and I thought it was over once IdrA turned on beast mode but god damn did kiwi ever put on a good show.
The Kiwikaki vs Idra game was just insane. The blink micro was purely incredible. The hallucinated colossi play made Idra build a ton of corruptors, but Kiwi didn't even bother getting more of them. Wow one of the best game i've seen in a long time.
i dont know why people keep saying Blink Micro is hard and it always like "omgincredible1111blinkkk" its not lol this micro in SC2 is in no way in comparison to sc1
On March 17 2011 00:15 MadCatZ wrote: i dont know why people keep saying Blink Micro is hard and it always like "omgincredible1111blinkkk" its not lol this micro in SC2 is in no way in comparison to sc1
1. not every plays protoss 2. they're noob 3. they're noob compared to kiwi.
On March 17 2011 00:15 MadCatZ wrote: i dont know why people keep saying Blink Micro is hard and it always like "omgincredible1111blinkkk" its not lol this micro in SC2 is in no way in comparison to sc1
And Sc1 micro is in no way comparable to WC3 (which KiWi played). Blink micro isn't too difficult but KiWi's is on another level. GGs ROOT.
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but we'll win kk c u 
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