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On March 05 2011 03:29 Deckkie wrote: This was so good for the european seen. They have tasted some good strong korean play now they will hopefully pull thereselfs to the next level.
Yeah, I actually agree with this.
Also dont think the western Terrans preformed as well as they did at some other major tournaments.
Well, Strelok, Bratok, and Cloud weren't there. Qxc looked a lot worse than he did previously though
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i hope they will soon release Moon vs Squirtle VODs
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On March 05 2011 04:28 jjmmtt wrote:Show nested quote +On March 05 2011 04:26 FXOpen wrote:Ace's timing push is pretty wicked. There are slight variations to it which are almost impossible to scout. At the same time, I'm going to say it... Forcefield needs cooldown, glade was clearly ahead in the last game, but because of 15 forcefields it tilted the game 100%... The only problem I see is, if there is a nerf to FF then terran becomes too powerful vs protoss early game.. Impossible to completely balance ((((((( I'm sure theres a way to counter stuff like that, but you have to be expecting 5 fully charged sentries to come rushing in like that. Either way, Kudos to moonglade for making it as far as he did. FXO is truly proud of him. And congrats to ACE who has definitely worked on the timing of that build over a long period of time. I dare say he will 3-0 or 3-1 moon in the final as well unless moon can work out a counter to that build fast, which as far as I can tell there is n't really much you can do except end the game early with busts and rushes. I look forward to sending glade to other tournaments Please try to get him into NASL, it'd be so, so great!
NASL is on our list for moonglade, but MLG is not due to a poor format. He also has some event in korea to part take in as well as GSL Quals.
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On March 05 2011 04:36 Azarkon wrote:Show nested quote +On March 05 2011 03:29 Deckkie wrote: This was so good for the european seen. They have tasted some good strong korean play now they will hopefully pull thereselfs to the next level.
Yeah, I actually agree with this. Show nested quote +Also dont think the western Terrans preformed as well as they did at some other major tournaments. Well, Strelok, Bratok, and Cloud weren't there. Qxc looked a lot worse than he did previously though
OR Select.
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On March 05 2011 03:55 DeckOneBell wrote:Show nested quote +On March 05 2011 03:45 hifriend wrote: An important thing to remember though, as someone expressed in an interview, is that the players that were sent to iem weren't some scrubs. The teams wouldn't be sending players that haven't done extremely well in house rankings/practice so these are probably the best of the best of the koreans that aren't competing in the GSL right now. They aren't bad at all, of course, but judging by tournament results from Korea, they're not within the top 30. This is only by tournament results, I personally think at least Ace and Squirtle are likely up there. Still, this isn't as if they sent MC and MVP or something else ridiculous like that. + Show Spoiler [Statistics!] +The odds of the three Koreans making it to the semifinals if every player had perfectly equal chances to make it to the semifinals should be:
(3 choose 3 * 9 choose 1) / 12 choose 4
Which equals 1/55 or a bit less than 2%.
I'd think there would be some skill causing this, not just coincidence.
I actually wouldn't make judgments about the rankings at the moment. As the recent GSL has shown, the rankings are far from determined, as almost all the favorites except MC were knocked out by relative unknowns. I'd just assume they're top players.
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On March 05 2011 03:11 DdoRo wrote:Show nested quote +On March 05 2011 01:35 rysecake wrote: This has me really stoked for the TSL. Watching lower end (by GSL terms) koreans dominate top foreigners has me thinking we're gonna see a bloodbath when Nestea,Mvp,Mc, etc. come over. Not really. Unless it's a lan-event like iem, koreans will have latency really bad playing on europe server or na
So what you're saying is that the euro and NA players are gonna need a lag advantage in order to beat the Koreans? That's only reinforcing the fact that Koreans are worlds ahead.
It's like asking Michael jordan to play you 1v1 bball in a wheelchair because you can't beat him when he's on his feet.
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On March 05 2011 04:36 Azarkon wrote:Well, Strelok, Bratok, and Cloud weren't there. Qxc looked a lot worse than he did previously though
All those guys didn't qualify, I guess the implication of the previous poster was they are not as good as the Terrans who did qualify (Tarson, and Sjow in the European case; and QXC and Fenix in the US case).
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On March 05 2011 04:39 FXOpen wrote:Show nested quote +On March 05 2011 04:28 jjmmtt wrote:On March 05 2011 04:26 FXOpen wrote:Ace's timing push is pretty wicked. There are slight variations to it which are almost impossible to scout. At the same time, I'm going to say it... Forcefield needs cooldown, glade was clearly ahead in the last game, but because of 15 forcefields it tilted the game 100%... The only problem I see is, if there is a nerf to FF then terran becomes too powerful vs protoss early game.. Impossible to completely balance ((((((( I'm sure theres a way to counter stuff like that, but you have to be expecting 5 fully charged sentries to come rushing in like that. Either way, Kudos to moonglade for making it as far as he did. FXO is truly proud of him. And congrats to ACE who has definitely worked on the timing of that build over a long period of time. I dare say he will 3-0 or 3-1 moon in the final as well unless moon can work out a counter to that build fast, which as far as I can tell there is n't really much you can do except end the game early with busts and rushes. I look forward to sending glade to other tournaments Please try to get him into NASL, it'd be so, so great! NASL is on our list for moonglade, but MLG is not due to a poor format. He also has some event in korea to part take in as well as GSL Quals.
Well, really cool you're sending him to qualify in Korea, going to be SO hard seeing as though all the WC3 players and BW players are rocking up now but he totally can, he's just the kind of player that owns up tournaments and wins games one after another if he gets going.
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On March 05 2011 04:42 Azarkon wrote:Show nested quote +On March 05 2011 03:55 DeckOneBell wrote:On March 05 2011 03:45 hifriend wrote: An important thing to remember though, as someone expressed in an interview, is that the players that were sent to iem weren't some scrubs. The teams wouldn't be sending players that haven't done extremely well in house rankings/practice so these are probably the best of the best of the koreans that aren't competing in the GSL right now. They aren't bad at all, of course, but judging by tournament results from Korea, they're not within the top 30. This is only by tournament results, I personally think at least Ace and Squirtle are likely up there. Still, this isn't as if they sent MC and MVP or something else ridiculous like that. + Show Spoiler [Statistics!] +The odds of the three Koreans making it to the semifinals if every player had perfectly equal chances to make it to the semifinals should be:
(3 choose 3 * 9 choose 1) / 12 choose 4
Which equals 1/55 or a bit less than 2%.
I'd think there would be some skill causing this, not just coincidence.
I actually wouldn't make judgments about the rankings at the moment. As the recent GSL has shown, the rankings are far from determined, as almost all the favorites except MC were knocked out by relative unknowns. I'd just assume they're top players.
JulyZerg is a relative unknown? oGsEnsnare is a relative unknown?
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On March 05 2011 04:43 bennyaus wrote:Show nested quote +On March 05 2011 04:36 Azarkon wrote:Well, Strelok, Bratok, and Cloud weren't there. Qxc looked a lot worse than he did previously though All those guys didn't qualify, I guess the implication of the previous poster was they are not as good as the Terrans who did qualify (Tarson, and Sjow in the European case; and QXC and Fenix in the US case).
I know, but the IEM qualifiers were a long time ago. Things are changing fast in the SC 2 scene, and a player that looks great one month, might look quite a bit worse the next.
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On March 05 2011 04:44 bennyaus wrote:Show nested quote +On March 05 2011 04:42 Azarkon wrote:On March 05 2011 03:55 DeckOneBell wrote:On March 05 2011 03:45 hifriend wrote: An important thing to remember though, as someone expressed in an interview, is that the players that were sent to iem weren't some scrubs. The teams wouldn't be sending players that haven't done extremely well in house rankings/practice so these are probably the best of the best of the koreans that aren't competing in the GSL right now. They aren't bad at all, of course, but judging by tournament results from Korea, they're not within the top 30. This is only by tournament results, I personally think at least Ace and Squirtle are likely up there. Still, this isn't as if they sent MC and MVP or something else ridiculous like that. + Show Spoiler [Statistics!] +The odds of the three Koreans making it to the semifinals if every player had perfectly equal chances to make it to the semifinals should be:
(3 choose 3 * 9 choose 1) / 12 choose 4
Which equals 1/55 or a bit less than 2%.
I'd think there would be some skill causing this, not just coincidence.
I actually wouldn't make judgments about the rankings at the moment. As the recent GSL has shown, the rankings are far from determined, as almost all the favorites except MC were knocked out by relative unknowns. I'd just assume they're top players. JulyZerg is a relative unknown? oGsEnsnare is a relative unknown?
Don't nitpick, please. If you think the current GSL isn't a tournament of upsets, you haven't been following it.
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On March 05 2011 04:46 Azarkon wrote:Show nested quote +On March 05 2011 04:44 bennyaus wrote:On March 05 2011 04:42 Azarkon wrote:On March 05 2011 03:55 DeckOneBell wrote:On March 05 2011 03:45 hifriend wrote: An important thing to remember though, as someone expressed in an interview, is that the players that were sent to iem weren't some scrubs. The teams wouldn't be sending players that haven't done extremely well in house rankings/practice so these are probably the best of the best of the koreans that aren't competing in the GSL right now. They aren't bad at all, of course, but judging by tournament results from Korea, they're not within the top 30. This is only by tournament results, I personally think at least Ace and Squirtle are likely up there. Still, this isn't as if they sent MC and MVP or something else ridiculous like that. + Show Spoiler [Statistics!] +The odds of the three Koreans making it to the semifinals if every player had perfectly equal chances to make it to the semifinals should be:
(3 choose 3 * 9 choose 1) / 12 choose 4
Which equals 1/55 or a bit less than 2%.
I'd think there would be some skill causing this, not just coincidence.
I actually wouldn't make judgments about the rankings at the moment. As the recent GSL has shown, the rankings are far from determined, as almost all the favorites except MC were knocked out by relative unknowns. I'd just assume they're top players. JulyZerg is a relative unknown? oGsEnsnare is a relative unknown? Don't nitpick, please. If you think the current GSL isn't a tournament of upsets, you haven't been following it.
But the thing is, these guys have made upsets in 1 round so far. Their histories still say they are the weaker players. If they continue this for the GSL's to come, then I can say these weren't flukes, otherwise, that's all they were. SanZenith with upsets in the first round doesn't make him better than Nestea, who has had one of the most stable records in gsl so far. Need to give it time. If these new faces can crush 25-1 like Mvp did in a GSL, I'll believe they don't suck anymore.
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On March 05 2011 03:08 1Eris1 wrote: Wow. This is almost sad. But the Koreans are just better it seems. It honestly looked like the only foreigner who could contend with the Koreans in a bo5 was IdrA.
Dont forget Socke who went basically 5-2 against Squirtle (but looked really weak against Moon).
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On March 05 2011 04:46 Azarkon wrote: Don't nitpick, please. If you think the current GSL isn't a tournament of upsets, you haven't been following it.
Ok, but not all Koreans are 'just good 'cause they are Korean'. There are some spectacular players of which Ensnare and July are part of that group as well as mvp and Nestea, then there are some average ones (Hyperdub, Polt - Code S, ButterflyEffect - Code A as examples) who would not dominate in the same fashion as Ace.
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I think even before the IEM, it was generally accepted that Koreans were ahead of foreigners. I'm not too sure how ahead they are, but they're definitely ahead in skill.
The sad thing for the Western scene is that there seems to be very little new blood making any sort of impact in the pro scene. Every single tournament, whether it's online or off, seem to have the same pros we've seen since beta. I haven't been following the pro SC2 tournament scene that closely for the past 3-4 months, but that seems to be the case.
Compare that to the Korean scene and the GSL, and there always seems to be some new Korean dude I've never heard of being picked up by a team and making an impact.
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On March 05 2011 04:52 bennyaus wrote:Show nested quote +On March 05 2011 04:46 Azarkon wrote: Don't nitpick, please. If you think the current GSL isn't a tournament of upsets, you haven't been following it. Ok, but not all Koreans are 'just good 'cause they are Korean'. There are some spectacular players of which Ensnare and July are part of that group as well as mvp and Nestea, then there are some average ones (Hyperdub, Polt - Code S, ButterflyEffect - Code A as examples) who would not dominate in the same fashion as Ace.
I actually agree with your principle. My real point is that players like Ace aren't "B teamers" just because they haven't made it big like MVP and MC. The tendency to say that if Ace is demolishing foreigners, MVP would just lol his way through TSL except against other Koreans, isn't appropriate, in my opinion. But I guess we'll see. Foreigners have really got their backs to the wall now.
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On March 05 2011 04:53 gozima wrote: I think even before the IEM, it was generally accepted that Koreans were ahead of foreigners. I'm not too sure how ahead they are, but they're definitely ahead in skill.
The sad thing for the Western scene is that there seems to be very little new blood making any sort of impact in the pro scene. Every single tournament, whether it's online or off, seem to have the same pros we've seen since beta. I haven't been following the pro SC2 tournament scene that closely for the past 3-4 months, but that seems to be the case.
Compare that to the Korean scene and the GSL, and there always seems to be some new Korean dude I've never heard of being picked up by a team and making an impact.
Well, I think this is partly because you know the foreigner scene more than you do the Korean scene. A lot of the so-called "new players" doing well in Korea are actually ex-BW or ex-WC 3 pros. So they aren't complete unknowns - just overshadowed by the likes of Flash, Jaedong, etc.
I think it's the same with the foreigner scene, actually. A lot of the people doing well are ex-BW or ex-WC 3 pros, but because we're more familiar with them, we tend to treat them as "old school" players when in fact they're no more "old school" than, say, Ace (who was a BW pro IIRC).
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On March 05 2011 04:46 Azarkon wrote:Show nested quote +On March 05 2011 04:44 bennyaus wrote:On March 05 2011 04:42 Azarkon wrote:On March 05 2011 03:55 DeckOneBell wrote:On March 05 2011 03:45 hifriend wrote: An important thing to remember though, as someone expressed in an interview, is that the players that were sent to iem weren't some scrubs. The teams wouldn't be sending players that haven't done extremely well in house rankings/practice so these are probably the best of the best of the koreans that aren't competing in the GSL right now. They aren't bad at all, of course, but judging by tournament results from Korea, they're not within the top 30. This is only by tournament results, I personally think at least Ace and Squirtle are likely up there. Still, this isn't as if they sent MC and MVP or something else ridiculous like that. + Show Spoiler [Statistics!] +The odds of the three Koreans making it to the semifinals if every player had perfectly equal chances to make it to the semifinals should be:
(3 choose 3 * 9 choose 1) / 12 choose 4
Which equals 1/55 or a bit less than 2%.
I'd think there would be some skill causing this, not just coincidence.
I actually wouldn't make judgments about the rankings at the moment. As the recent GSL has shown, the rankings are far from determined, as almost all the favorites except MC were knocked out by relative unknowns. I'd just assume they're top players. JulyZerg is a relative unknown? oGsEnsnare is a relative unknown? Don't nitpick, please. If you think the current GSL isn't a tournament of upsets, you haven't been following it. lol, I'm not upset at all, only fanboy got upset. I'm happy with the result so far, the new players are getting better, they deserved it. Why the hell should I get upset ?
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Anyone else nostalgic for WCG given the results?
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On March 05 2011 05:04 hitman133 wrote:Show nested quote +On March 05 2011 04:46 Azarkon wrote:On March 05 2011 04:44 bennyaus wrote:On March 05 2011 04:42 Azarkon wrote:On March 05 2011 03:55 DeckOneBell wrote:On March 05 2011 03:45 hifriend wrote: An important thing to remember though, as someone expressed in an interview, is that the players that were sent to iem weren't some scrubs. The teams wouldn't be sending players that haven't done extremely well in house rankings/practice so these are probably the best of the best of the koreans that aren't competing in the GSL right now. They aren't bad at all, of course, but judging by tournament results from Korea, they're not within the top 30. This is only by tournament results, I personally think at least Ace and Squirtle are likely up there. Still, this isn't as if they sent MC and MVP or something else ridiculous like that. + Show Spoiler [Statistics!] +The odds of the three Koreans making it to the semifinals if every player had perfectly equal chances to make it to the semifinals should be:
(3 choose 3 * 9 choose 1) / 12 choose 4
Which equals 1/55 or a bit less than 2%.
I'd think there would be some skill causing this, not just coincidence.
I actually wouldn't make judgments about the rankings at the moment. As the recent GSL has shown, the rankings are far from determined, as almost all the favorites except MC were knocked out by relative unknowns. I'd just assume they're top players. JulyZerg is a relative unknown? oGsEnsnare is a relative unknown? Don't nitpick, please. If you think the current GSL isn't a tournament of upsets, you haven't been following it. lol, I'm not upset at all, only fanboy got upset. I'm happy with the result so far, the new players are getting better, they deserved it. Why the hell should I get upset ?
I think you should read what you're responding to one more time. You're not making sense.
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