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On May 11 2010 19:54 Slayer91 wrote:
Hasuobs seems to struggle with macro all the games i've played/seen him play. :o
He is a wc3 player. They only had to make 20 units max per game :-D, skellies not counting.
I really like hasuObs. His execution may not be perfect but he tries a lot of cool things.
I feel like TvP is about map control. If terran gets your obs you have no map control. Scans give infinite map control late game. Cloak-EMP is so gross vs a blind protoss army. This and the marine/tank/banshee/raven push give Terran multiple options. Why else would Tester say Terran was the best race?
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On May 12 2010 01:31 willeesmalls wrote:Show nested quote +On May 11 2010 19:54 Slayer91 wrote:
Hasuobs seems to struggle with macro all the games i've played/seen him play. :o He is a wc3 player. They only had to make 20 units max per game :-D, skellies not counting. I really like hasuObs. His execution may not be perfect but he tries a lot of cool things. I feel like TvP is about map control. If terran gets your obs you have no map control. Scans give infinite map control late game. Cloak-EMP is so gross vs a blind protoss army. This and the marine/tank/banshee/raven push give Terran multiple options. Why else would Tester say Terran was the best race?
Yes I think it's still visible that he tries to do alot of things rather with micro than macro, such as game one that constant stalker harassment.
Brat_OK really is a skilled SC2 monster already, #1 in Europe platinum ladder as well.
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No offense to hasuobs, good player and all, but that was not a great series of games. BratOK is an impressive terran player, but hasuobs fucked this up in typical warcraft 3 player style (overemphasis on lame micro shit and poor macro). BratOK is also the clearly superior player in all aspects of the game.
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On May 12 2010 01:31 willeesmalls wrote:Show nested quote +On May 11 2010 19:54 Slayer91 wrote:
Hasuobs seems to struggle with macro all the games i've played/seen him play. :o I feel like TvP is about map control. If terran gets your obs you have no map control. Scans give infinite map control late game.
You need to rethink your definitions of "infinite" and "map control".
If by "infinite" you mean "when you have the energy and want to sacrifice 300 minerals"
and by "map control" you mean "can sometimes scout the other guys army" then i guess they're ok though.
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i find it hillarious that you guys are faulting HasuObs for being a war3 player?? Yet arguably the two best terrans besides Brat_OK are Demuslim and Lucifron.. guess what game they came from?
Brat_OK is a monster, clearly one of the best terrans outside of korea ever, and HasuObs was an average war3 player at best. It has nothing to do with the games they came from, but their level of play in those games. Its like the whole Sonkie vs Yellow bullshit argument. A decent US player vs one of the most legendary zergs of all time. Not fair comparison.
Its typical for BW elitists to always classify someone as a war3 player when they lose, but when they win (like even HasuObs who's been owning most of the "top foreign" BW players since beta started), they act like nothing happened. Fucking unreal bias. Dont bring up this war3 shit when they lose, unless you are gonna bring it up when they WIN also, like Demuslim and Lucifron have been doing consistently.
Would you find it fair if I said, well since HasuObs owned Tarson 3-1 and Goody 2-0 afew days ago, it was not HasuObs winning, it was more Tarson and Goody fucking up in typical BW newb fashion; macroing and not having game sense/microing at all.. Just sitting there building units and not knowing how to use them.. Does that sound about right? Thats exactly what you just did to HasuObs when he lost to Brat_OK, so its fair to do this to every BW player who HasuObs beats, right?
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On May 12 2010 02:15 Skyze wrote:Brat_OK is a monster, clearly one of the best terrans outside of korea ever, and HasuObs was an average war3 player at best. It has nothing to do with the games they came from, but their level of play in those games. Its like the whole Sonkie vs Yellow bullshit argument. A decent US player vs one of the most legendary zergs of all time. Not fair comparison.
HasuObs was not just a decent Wc3 Player. The reason why he didn't do well the last years was that he wasn't really practicing this much afaik. (That's just my conclusion from his statements on his EPS Games and from him not participating in any big tournaments). But back at the time when he was at his best he was very good player and one of the key parts to the Mouz roster. He is doing that well at Sc2 because of his micro ability which was the reason he was still a decent player over the last couple of EPS seasons since he didn't seem to work much on his builds.
I have to agree that this Wc3 Players have no macro talk is just bullshit. I think we have to redefine what macro really means because if the conclusion is just that in Warcraft you had less resources thus you could afford less unit building structures and that's why Wc3 Players can't cope with having a lot more than three of these. I've got to tell ya this is just bullshit. Keeping your money low is not the key part of macroing well. Macro is about exact timing: Knowing when to expo, knowing when to add more rax and knowing when to attack. And these things are as crucial to Warcraft 3 than they are to BW and Sc2 because even when macroing seems to be more simple with having less resources and there for less structures you had to be pretty damn exact on all those things. Overall Mechanics are just the tool for doing all these things. It amuses me every time when I hear commentators talking about players "switching in to macro mode" when they in fact are just sitting on two bases building up their forces and keeping their money low. I was a decent Wc3 player and that's why I know better than that.
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I thought Hasu played great but Brat was just that much better....Hasu's macro fell apart a bit in the latter part of the games, however Brat's probably the best terran player I've seen thus far in Sc2 so I don't see how there's any shame in losing to him
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On May 12 2010 02:15 Skyze wrote:
Brat_OK is a monster, clearly one of the best terrans outside of korea ever, and HasuObs was an average war3 player at best.
HasuObs is focusing on WC3 (main game) + he made a break from gaming because of a new PC, and he still won the Go4SC2 Cup #12 and reached the final in this one. So neither now nor back then was he average at best.
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this wc3 vs sc1 is just bullshit.. from what I see, players that came from both sides are all doing well in sc2. I think sc1 players should have a bigger advantage seeing as they already know how to play this style of game.
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On May 12 2010 05:01 StaR.Sun wrote:
this wc3 vs sc1 is just bullshit.. from what I see, players that came from both sides are all doing well in sc2. I think sc1 players should have a bigger advantage seeing as they already know how to play this style of game.
I'm just going to point out that the game mechanics (I mean something like the interface and how the units respond and so on) is much more like WC3. I don't think BW players necessarily have advantage even though it is the second title in the series.
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On May 12 2010 02:15 Skyze wrote:
i find it hillarious that you guys are faulting HasuObs for being a war3 player?? Yet arguably the two best terrans besides Brat_OK are Demuslim and Lucifron.. guess what game they came from?
Brat_OK is a monster, clearly one of the best terrans outside of korea ever, and HasuObs was an average war3 player at best. It has nothing to do with the games they came from, but their level of play in those games. Its like the whole Sonkie vs Yellow bullshit argument. A decent US player vs one of the most legendary zergs of all time. Not fair comparison.
Its typical for BW elitists to always classify someone as a war3 player when they lose, but when they win (like even HasuObs who's been owning most of the "top foreign" BW players since beta started), they act like nothing happened. Fucking unreal bias. Dont bring up this war3 shit when they lose, unless you are gonna bring it up when they WIN also, like Demuslim and Lucifron have been doing consistently.
Would you find it fair if I said, well since HasuObs owned Tarson 3-1 and Goody 2-0 afew days ago, it was not HasuObs winning, it was more Tarson and Goody fucking up in typical BW newb fashion; macroing and not having game sense/microing at all.. Just sitting there building units and not knowing how to use them.. Does that sound about right? Thats exactly what you just did to HasuObs when he lost to Brat_OK, so its fair to do this to every BW player who HasuObs beats, right?
Well said.
I played both War3 and BW extensively and I can honestly say I sucked at both games equally as much as I am sucking at SC2 right now - it's not the game you come from, it's the player playing it.
BTW that game on LT was just an incredible game, amazing comebacks from both players and a truly epic conclusion.
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On May 12 2010 02:06 Slayer91 wrote:Show nested quote +On May 12 2010 01:31 willeesmalls wrote:On May 11 2010 19:54 Slayer91 wrote:
Hasuobs seems to struggle with macro all the games i've played/seen him play. :o I feel like TvP is about map control. If terran gets your obs you have no map control. Scans give infinite map control late game. You need to rethink your definitions of "infinite" and "map control". If by "infinite" you mean "when you have the energy and want to sacrifice 300 minerals" and by "map control" you mean "can sometimes scout the other guys army" then i guess they're ok though.
If you have 4 bases like Brat_Ok had on LT, you don't need to increase your mineral intake from 1800 to 2200 a minute. He had 4 scans a minute, which is pretty much a scan whenever he wanted. Protoss observer really isn't much use when terran army moves with a raven + turrets up.
I wasn't criticizing HasuObs when I said he was a wc3 player. He tries new things (unconventional strategies were always applauded in wc3) that I don't see often.
Things like the stalker obs harrass, warp in templar in fog to feedback dropships coming to save island expo, warp prism sentry block ramp a marine bunker FE terran.
It's obvious HasuObs can be creative and react well. The macro mechanics are much easier in this game and I think HasuObs will be a top player when he has them down.
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EPT
