EPTCatZ CC first counter - a closer look at the build - Page 3
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Hairy
United Kingdom1169 Posts
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Netto.
Poland523 Posts
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FCReverie
Australia103 Posts
On May 24 2013 01:07 Netto. wrote: What if terran simply adds 2nd rax immediately and starts pumping reapers ? on like 8 reapers he can take infinity of queens and slowlings, ur speed is delayed and with repers gaining map control he simply flies to his 3rd. Ofc u can make roaches but Catz has never really scouted here. 8 reapers vs spine is terrible and cost inefficient and you are 1 base behind after making a CC already :/ | ||
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Markwerf
Netherlands3728 Posts
On May 23 2013 01:56 TheDwf wrote: This. Yesterday I defended it while going CC rax gas and not seeing the Hatchery until 4'. Continuous Marine production and bunkering the Hatchery is all it takes to stop this, plus pulling some SCVs if necessary to cancel any attempt of Spines. At best Zerg can drop one tumor with his Queen from the proxy hatch, but since you have two Orbitals you can easily get rid of it. Even if you lose some time floating down the CC you're still ~2 SCVs ahead compared to gasless 1 rax FE. depends on the version of gasless 1 rax FE, you're not forced to continue making marines with it. You can also just make 1 marine then delay the second one so you can make the CC before 2nd depot. If you do this you can just make the CC at 17 and it's imo strictly superior to CC on high ground. The later CC is compensated by not having to fly it over and you don't have to pull scv's in case of drone harass. Just use the downtime on the rax after the first marine to reposition it to make a nice wall at the natural, great setup to play very greedy behind a rax wall which is so much stronger than a depot wall. | ||
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Antylamon
United States1981 Posts
On May 23 2013 18:59 Khaldor wrote: You don't get the point. I don't really care if people agree with this strategy being a good counter or not. I simply don't understand why some would harp on points that are clearly touched upon in the video. That indicates to me they haven't watched it before they posted. Same goes for others that don't seem to understand that this is not necessarily supposed to kill the terran right away. Nowhere in the video was claimed it would. It's pointed out several times that it's supposed to give you a lead, not an outright win. Doesnt have anything to do with people agreeing with me or not. Not quite sure why you would say that in the first place? It's one thing to argue the strategy in itself and talk about possible counters but a completely different thing to claim it's supposed to do something that it's not. My mistake, then. It seems my impression of you was thrown off wildly by your post here: On April 11 2013 09:08 Khaldor wrote: Was wondering how long it would take for someone to shout "NO! THIS GUY IS FASTER". Congratulations, you are the one. Guess if nobody can beat Losira I should just stop recording videos like this from other players? | ||
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agahamsorr0w
Netherlands359 Posts
On May 24 2013 04:06 Antylamon wrote: My mistake, then. It seems my impression of you was thrown off wildly by your post here: Khaldor DOES have a point. People posting here give the impression they havent watched the video at all since all the arguments they give have already been discussed in meta episode 4 and the video khaldor made. Either this or they just don't pay attention while watching a video. | ||
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Schnullerbacke13
Germany1199 Posts
I like especially the fact, that this shuts down terran's early harrass as he is busy taking your hatch down. I'm not a master, but for me it pays off.. | ||
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zchi
Canada1 Post
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intense555
United States474 Posts
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c0sm0naut
United States1229 Posts
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Penguinator
United States837 Posts
On May 22 2013 15:41 PanzerElite wrote: If this is going to happen a lot on ladder, just 11/11 every zerg. This build is a reaction to CC first though... so if you 11/11, then the Zerg just doesn't do this, and holds your cheese, and then wins. | ||
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dreamsmasher
816 Posts
On May 24 2013 07:46 c0sm0naut wrote: faced this on ladder a few days ago done by a mid-high Z, wasn't really too difficult to beat even having never seen it before. if you build on the high ground CC, you are already in a good spot vs this, you just need to tech to siege tanks and stop blindly going hellions after FE. in my game i made it on the low ground so it was delayed, and didn't decide to try to kill the hatchery, just morphed to OC, lifted and made tanks on 1 base. took two gas the second i saw what he was doing, even after building barracks 1 and 2 and committing to bio opening z probably didn't know what he was doing. going tanks is the worst way to deal | ||
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Aberu
United States968 Posts
On May 22 2013 15:41 PanzerElite wrote: If this is going to happen a lot on ladder, just 11/11 every zerg. If you scout at 13 like you normally do as zerg and don't see a 14 cc opening on the high ground by terran, you don't do this build anyways. This is just a strong response to a very specific kind of popular opening. | ||
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Aberu
United States968 Posts
On May 23 2013 01:56 TheDwf wrote: This. Yesterday I defended it while going CC rax gas and not seeing the Hatchery until 4'. Continuous Marine production and bunkering the Hatchery is all it takes to stop this, plus pulling some SCVs if necessary to cancel any attempt of Spines. At best Zerg can drop one tumor with his Queen from the proxy hatch, but since you have two Orbitals you can easily get rid of it. Even if you lose some time floating down the CC you're still ~2 SCVs ahead compared to gasless 1 rax FE. Can you post a replay I and many others would be interested to digest the intricacies, like how well the zerg transitioned out of their build and such. This is more of the potential of this build. Even CatZ messed up macro'ing down his 600 minerals many times in all the games I have seen from this so far. | ||
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Doc Brawler
United States260 Posts
 maybe just build 3 orbitals and double expand on breaking out? | ||
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random_user07
Canada10 Posts
Alternatively, how would the catz build work vs someone who goes CC first into 3 rax reaper allin? | ||
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willstertben
427 Posts
i haven't faced it ever since catz strat got popular. coincidence? | ||
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SHODAN
United Kingdom1162 Posts
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Aberu
United States968 Posts
On May 25 2013 09:39 SHODAN wrote: thank you for the ladder points Khaldor. I get a free win every time zerg tries this. So you have been 14 cc'ing on the top of your ramp and they've been executing it as well as catz (which isn't even as potentially well as it could be executed by any means)? | ||
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ktimekiller
United States690 Posts
He also rushed for a siege tank, but it was not enough. http://drop.sc/337639 | ||
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