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On May 22 2013 13:51 jcroisdale wrote:Show nested quote +On May 22 2013 02:51 TsGBruzze wrote:
Can someone make a guide for zergs that shows how too counter it :/ Roach ling is going to be your backbone, but getting an extra queen or two to help with targeting the prism is super helpfull. No prism no win.
Very bad advice, this build is the absolute counter to roach ling. The best counter to this build is to go ling+ bane, use the banes to clear out the zealots, and the lings will overrun everything else.
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Very cool simplification of the build.
Usually people write them down like 40supply X 44 Y 50 Z
but your way of writing it down is great.
However timings are vital. Include some 
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On May 22 2013 14:23 aznheat80 wrote:Show nested quote +On May 22 2013 13:51 jcroisdale wrote:On May 22 2013 02:51 TsGBruzze wrote:
Can someone make a guide for zergs that shows how too counter it :/ Roach ling is going to be your backbone, but getting an extra queen or two to help with targeting the prism is super helpfull. No prism no win. Very bad advice, this build is the absolute counter to roach ling. The best counter to this build is to go ling+ bane, use the banes to clear out the zealots, and the lings will overrun everything else.
Actually this is totally fine versus this, so would Banelings be, it's scouting that's key.
The key to countering this build order is to scout the Protoss gas.
Whenever there is only 1 gas taken from the Protoss you know it's going to be a Zealot heavy 2 base all in.
All Zerg players right now assume that Protoss has those 2 gasses taken in the main, if this build becomes very popular it can't be an assumption anymore.
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Thanks for the very helpful tutorial! I just have one question. What happens if a 10 pool shows up after you cancel the zealot? Can you hold okay with just probe micro and the mother ship core? Who is ahead in that situation?
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On May 23 2013 00:48 Salient wrote:
Thanks for the very helpful tutorial! I just have one question. What happens if a 10 pool shows up after you cancel the zealot? Can you hold okay with just probe micro and the mother ship core? Who is ahead in that situation?
In that situation the Protoss should flat out die.
It is a slight risk that you're taking!
Can be neglected by doing a standard scout.
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I gotta tell you, this build has made PvZ, which was my worst matchup earlier, a cakewalk (I am in Silver league though ). +1 Zealots are so freakingly strong vs anything the Zerg player have up at that timing. Having this build in my sleeve feels very good. Thanks!
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Your vods are great. You got a fan here.
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On May 23 2013 01:42 Lowko wrote:Show nested quote +On May 23 2013 00:48 Salient wrote:
Thanks for the very helpful tutorial! I just have one question. What happens if a 10 pool shows up after you cancel the zealot? Can you hold okay with just probe micro and the mother ship core? Who is ahead in that situation? In that situation the Protoss should flat out die. It is a slight risk that you're taking! Can be neglected by doing a standard scout.
Alternatively, you can adjust the build order slightly to be a little safer. For example, you can send the probe a little early and put it a little further out on the map so that you will see the lings earlier, and/or you can start the mothership core before the nexus.
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On May 23 2013 23:24 Sated wrote:Show nested quote +On May 22 2013 14:23 aznheat80 wrote:On May 22 2013 13:51 jcroisdale wrote:On May 22 2013 02:51 TsGBruzze wrote:
Can someone make a guide for zergs that shows how too counter it :/ Roach ling is going to be your backbone, but getting an extra queen or two to help with targeting the prism is super helpfull. No prism no win. Very bad advice, this build is the absolute counter to roach ling. The best counter to this build is to go ling+ bane, use the banes to clear out the zealots, and the lings will overrun everything else. And then the Protoss splits their Zealots and you lose because you waste too many Banelings killing isolated Zealots/small groups of Zealots. Banelings are not really the answer to this if the Protoss controls properly.
Good luck doing that on creep. Even if you do split, its easier for mass lings to overrun your army. It's not as easy as you are making it sound.
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Thanks for this, looks like a nice build, gonna try it out. Nice video aswell.
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Mass ling style is the way to go for zergs against gateway expands imo.
Gateway expands often play a zealot heavy style without many sentries and the +1 timings is usually late so you can have +1 carapace by the time +1 hits basically. You want fast speed against gateway openings anyway if you are intent to take a third, because good speedling usage is the only way to secure the third, you don't want roaches against the 4 gate followup for example because you won't be on enough economy away (thus larva is no problem).
Speedlings are also great to delay the push from gateway first by just threatening the runby or force them into a cannon anyway. If you have you're evo on time you can easily 'counter' the forge by going +1 carapace.
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Isn't this the exact same build as The MAN Train, which was just posted a few days ago?
The tricky thing about these kinds of builds is that they are good because people don't know how to deal with it, and once they get figured out, stopping them is easy. As others have said, 1/1 lings on 2 bases is enough to completely stomp this.
Maybe fast robo builds like this could be used in a non-all-in fashion with the upcoming warp prism speed boost.
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Yes it is, though this one was posted 1st
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EPT
