• Log InLog In
  • Register
Liquid`
Team Liquid Liquipedia
EDT 18:22
CEST 00:22
KST 07:22
  • Home
  • Forum
  • Calendar
  • Streams
  • Liquipedia
  • Features
  • Store
  • EPT
  • TL+
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Smash
  • Heroes
  • Counter-Strike
  • Overwatch
  • Liquibet
  • Fantasy StarCraft
  • TLPD
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Blogs
Forum Sidebar
Events/Features
News
Featured News
BGE Stara Zagora 2025: Info & Preview27Code S RO12 Preview: GuMiho, Bunny, SHIN, ByuN3The Memories We Share - Facing the Final(?) GSL46Code S RO12 Preview: Cure, Zoun, Solar, Creator4[ASL19] Finals Preview: Daunting Task30
Community News
[BSL20] ProLeague: Bracket Stage & Dates9GSL Ro4 and Finals moved to Sunday June 15th12Weekly Cups (May 27-June 1): ByuN goes back-to-back0EWC 2025 Regional Qualifier Results26Code S RO12 Results + RO8 Groups (2025 Season 2)3
StarCraft 2
General
The SCII GOAT: A statistical Evaluation what is flash bitcoin BGE Stara Zagora 2025: Info & Preview Magnus Carlsen and Fabi review Clem's chess game. Jim claims he and Firefly were involved in match-fixing
Tourneys
Bellum Gens Elite: Stara Zagora 2025 Sparkling Tuna Cup - Weekly Open Tournament SOOPer7s Showmatches 2025 Master Swan Open (Global Bronze-Master 2) $5,100+ SEL Season 2 Championship (SC: Evo)
Strategy
[G] Darkgrid Layout Simple Questions Simple Answers [G] PvT Cheese: 13 Gate Proxy Robo
Custom Maps
[UMS] Zillion Zerglings
External Content
Mutation # 477 Slow and Steady Mutation # 476 Charnel House Mutation # 475 Hard Target Mutation # 474 Futile Resistance
Brood War
General
Mihu vs Korea Players Statistics BGH auto balance -> http://bghmmr.eu/ BW General Discussion [BSL20] ProLeague: Bracket Stage & Dates Will foreigners ever be able to challenge Koreans?
Tourneys
[ASL19] Grand Finals NA Team League 6/8/2025 [Megathread] Daily Proleagues [BSL20] ProLeague Bracket Stage - Day 2
Strategy
I am doing this better than progamers do. [G] How to get started on ladder as a new Z player
Other Games
General Games
Armies of Exigo - YesYes? Nintendo Switch Thread Stormgate/Frost Giant Megathread What do you want from future RTS games? Path of Exile
Dota 2
Official 'what is Dota anymore' discussion
League of Legends
LiquidLegends to reintegrate into TL.net
Heroes of the Storm
Heroes of the Storm 2.0 Simple Questions, Simple Answers
Hearthstone
Heroes of StarCraft mini-set
TL Mafia
TL Mafia Community Thread Vanilla Mini Mafia
Community
General
US Politics Mega-thread Things Aren’t Peaceful in Palestine Russo-Ukrainian War Thread Vape Nation Thread European Politico-economics QA Mega-thread
Fan Clubs
Maru Fan Club Serral Fan Club
Media & Entertainment
Korean Music Discussion [Manga] One Piece
Sports
2024 - 2025 Football Thread Formula 1 Discussion NHL Playoffs 2024
World Cup 2022
Tech Support
Computer Build, Upgrade & Buying Resource Thread Cleaning My Mechanical Keyboard
TL Community
The Automated Ban List
Blogs
Cognitive styles x game perf…
TrAiDoS
StarCraft improvement
iopq
Heero Yuy & the Tax…
KrillinFromwales
I was completely wrong ab…
jameswatts
Need Your Help/Advice
Glider
Trip to the Zoo
micronesia
Poker
Nebuchad
Customize Sidebar...

Website Feedback

Closed Threads



Active: 21952 users

[Guide] BoX playstyle

Forum Index > StarCraft 2 Strategy
Post a Reply
stroggos
Profile Joined February 2009
New Zealand1543 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-02-13 00:14:25
February 12 2011 23:54 GMT
#1
This guide has theory in it. But the theory has been gained from practicing starcraft. If i did not play starcraft a decent amount i would not be able to put mathmatics into my explanation. This guide is mainly for protoss players, since im a protoss player. But it's values can be carried over to any race.

Part 1: Introduction to BoX style

What is BoX playstyle?
BoX referes to Best of X, and X represents the number of times you have to play someone in a series. It is a playstyle that is designed to excell against someone if you have to play them numerous times. This is particularly handy if you play at the high level as you'll get matched against a small number of people at your end of the bellcurve. It is also handy if you happen to play on the SEA server, because only about 3 people play on that server at any one time.


Instead of doing a guide on a build order which i realized would become out of date in a short time, i decided to do it on my playstyle, which results in my use of certain types of build orders. This playstyle however has seen use since the days of brood war, especially in zvp, as we saw a plethora of build order variants that could be done off a 9pool speedlings opening. Well the idea is the same here.

Foundations of a good BoX playstyle.
The first idea you need for this playstyle is for all of your buildorders to look the same up until a point where they can't get any worker scouts into your base(this is the end of your foundation build). This is so your opponent cannot tell what build order you are going for. This is powerful in the 2nd game of a BoX series, when your opponent sees your doing exactly the same thing, and assumes you will be doing the same build order after their worker dies.
After your foundation build has finished, you pick a build order variant. Variant builds are the builds you can choose from your foundation, and your variant builds cannot be seen until they scan(only works sometimes), scout with air or you attack them. Unlike the foundation build, which you can only have 1 of, you can have as many Variant builds as possible, which your'e opponent has to guess. Here's a diagram to show how it works.

[image loading]

example of a Foundation build:

9 pylon
14gate
15gas
18 cybernetics
19zealot
22gas
24stalker.

the foundation build stops as soon as the enemy worker is dead or gone, and no more wokers can enter your base. This is usually 10 seconds after your first stalker spawns.



example of variant builds:

how many variant builds you can do is down to your foundation build. I've decided to do a foundation build with 2 quick gasses, this allows for sentry heavy gateway builds, and any tech off 1base, (blink stalker, dt, voidray, collosus)

1)once sentry done, add citadil and 3 more gateways with continuos probe production. stop probe production at 32 and make only stalkers (4gate stalker)

2)once sentry done, add gateway and stargate with continuos probe production(2gate voidray)



The black line up to the yellow circle is all that your opponent sees with a ground scout. If we changed anything in the build there would be another black line leading into your build order variants for each thing we changed. And with the ground scout, your opponent can see these two different black lines*. The most easily seen difference is if your have got 1 gas geyser, or two.

*wether your opponent can tell the difference between these two black lines is actually the only thing that matters. If you build 1 more probe or chronoboost at a different time, then the other black line is very close to your original one, and is likely not noticed by your opponent.

Now, the reason we have the build order variants is for three main reasons:
1) to make ourselves hard to counter, and predict.
2) to predict and counter our opponents.
3) to force players to take many precautions and make sure their build is safe to all of your builds OR to make your opponent take risks by not following precautions.

Here's an example for the third reason: Your in a bo3 vs a zerg player. You go 2gateway voidray into expand the first game. They go 2 bases, then roach tech with lings and queens. they see your voids, and are now forced to make more queens and switch to hydra tech. In the 2nd game they expect the same build, as your foundation build is the same. Instead they go straight to hydra tech and get owned by a 4gate blink stalker all in build order, because their hydras did not get out in time and they had no roaches. In the 3rd game they go roach and hydra, to be safe against any of the builds you can do. This results in a weaker economy from them, and you go 3gate expand and beat them with a collosus push later on. BoX style makes your opponent choose between risk and safety.



If you only have 1 Build order variant, well you might as well only have 1 black line. Since you'll be doing the same thing every game anyway. This makes you easy to predict and counter.

example: lets say that you go for a 1gate FE build order every game vs a terran player. they go for a 2 thor/scv all in rush every game, you have great difficulty vs this build and only win 20% of the time versus particular player. resulting in a 20% winrate vs the player. If you had another variant like 2 gate robo which had an easy time beating the thor rush, then your winrate will increase greatly if you use this build instead.

The more variants you have, the harder you are to counter and predict. But it is important that you don't go overboard with these variants, because practicing a lot of build order variants takes a lot of time. and some two build orders essentially have the same effect on your opponent.

part 2: picking your variants, deduction and adaptation.

Choosing your variants: Choosing what variant build order to do is down to map positioning, your opponents playstyle and build order variety, the overall trend of game style at the moment, and recent games with your opponent.

game trends: The more popular a build order is, the more practice people have against it. It's a well known fact that everytime someone uses a new build in the gsl, people start copying it and doing it on the ladder everywhere, making it immensely popular. You should pick variants that have not seen much use as people will have less experience against it. As long as it's a good build order though

Map positioning: farily obvious, but in cross positions you'll want to do expanding builds more often as it's safer to in pvt, their 1 base timing attacks will have further to walk.

Opponents playstyle: This is a bit more complex. Im going to make up some values to explain. lets say you know your opponent has 2 different buildorders. It's the pvt matchup. One build is 1/1/1, a tank/marine/banshee/raven timing attack. And the other is 1rax expand into 2more raxs, and then to starport. an MMM based play.

lets assume that your variant that is best at beating 1/1/1 is a pheonix build, which you know can beat it about 75% of the time, but pheonix only beats 1rax expand 30% of the time. And your best build for beating their 1rax expand is a 1gate expand from yourself, which beats it 60% of the time, but only beats 1/1/1 20% of the time. Now lets imagine that they do the the 1rax expand in about 80% of the games you see, and 1/1/1 in about 20%.

pheonix > 1/1/1 at 75% winrate
pheonix < 1rax expand at 30% winrate
1gate expand > 1rax expand at 60% winrate
1gate expand < 1/1/1 20% winrate
1/1/1 done 20% of the time
1rax expand done 80% of the time.

.

phoenix wins 39% of the time (.75x.2) +(.3 x.8)
1gate expand wins 52% of the time (.2x.2) + (.6x.8)




Therefore, you should do the variant of 1gate expand every game and you will win 52% of the time. However only some opponents will be stubborn enough to do the same build over and over against you. Lets assume that you're a midlevel master league player, and that when you are laddering and you play someone twice in a row, they are 10% more likely to do a buildorder that is strong versus the build that you did the previous game. lets say you did 1gate expand the first game and they went 1rax expand. Now this game they have a 30% chance of doing the 1/1/1 build. (previously 20% of the games they did) Now doing the pheonix build would grant us a 43.5% winrate (.75x.3)+(.3x.7) and 1gate expand only 48% winrate. (.2x.3)+(.6x.7) This means the terran player can gain a 52% winrate over the protoss, as the protoss's best option is still to 1gate expand, which now only yeilds them 48% winrate because 1/1/1 is victorius more often. Lets assume we are the terran player and we want to mix our 2 build orders enough so that no matter what protoss build order they do, it will have the same chance to win versus us.

x= 1/1/1
y=1rax expand

z1=phoenix win rate
z2=i gate expand win rate

z1=.75x+.3y
z2=.2x+.6y

if z1=z2 then
.75x+.3y=.2x+.6y
y=1.83x
note also that x+y=1
i.e. 100% of games
then y=1.83 x also y=1-x, by substitution
1.83x=1-x
x=1/2.83=.353
by substitution y=.647

therefore by substitution z1=z2=.75x.353+.3x.647=.2x.353+.6x.647=.459

the maximum winrate the terrran can acheive is 54.1%, assuming the protoss will react and adapt to your build orders as well. (1-.459), this is done by going 1/1/1 35.3% of the time, and 1rax expand 64.7% of the time.




part 3: Examples of BoX playstyle.

I have covered the strengths of this build and how it functions, now it's time to see examples of it.

My favourite example is the match between MorroW and IdrA in IEM. Although this weighs more heavily on pyschological manipulation, we see MorroW do the same reaper build three times in a row, but in the last game, using the same foundation as his reaper builds but he goes for a hellion/maruader push variant instead of the reaper variant. While IdrA has finally adapted his build to the reapers, MorroW switches in a variant that completely counters idrA's adaption.

game series can be seen here.



My pvt builds:

foundation build:

all chronoboosts on probes until 24supply(goes on stalker)
9pylon
14gate
15gas
17 pylon
18cybernetics
19zealot
22gas
23pylon
24stalker
26(after stalker starts) warpgate research
sentry once stalker is done.

-end of foundation build-

*start of 1gate1robo expand variant*

robo once 100 gas accumulated
probe production stops at 31 supply.
build another sentry once the first one is finished
31-33 Nexus then pylon straight after
31-33 after nexus is built, add 2 more gateways.
build 2 observers consecutively out of robo,
send 1st to their base.

end of variant once 1st observer reaches their base. This is when my build adapts to what it scouts, and there are variants of my variant -_-.



It's important to have a wide enough range of variants so that if you know what your opponent is doing, you will have at least one variant that will be strong against it. And it's also a good idea to have a variant that is fairly 'standard', in other words it can take on almost all builds the opponent does if you slightly outplay them.


Here are 3 replays of different variants i use in pvt including the one above. They are all played against a 3100+ master league player, DrWaaagh.
http://screplays.com/replays/stroggos/16281
http://screplays.com/replays/stroggos/16283
http://screplays.com/replays/stroggos/16285


All criticism is welcome.

id on NA: kiwistroggos.330
id on sea: stroggos.825

hi
Glueburn
Profile Blog Joined January 2011
United States496 Posts
February 13 2011 00:44 GMT
#2
This is a very interesting guide, and seems to be very useful.
is a bit confusing however. I applaud your use of math to make a fairly understandable guide.

It is indeed good to have a standard build order and being able to adapt with it (I.E. 2gate robo)
it seems, that this, while well thought out post, but is widely known? as in, adapting to your opponent is a good way to play, but i believe your approach is to have a specific build for each variation that you see?

if so, that is incredibly taxxing on your brain, having a reaction to every single action that you see. also, what would you do if you were cheesed, would you still go to a solid build order, or perhaps a more loose and fluid order more focusing on what you need instead of adapting.

blah, i think im talking in a circle, sorry if i dont make any sense.
Sometimes you have to play a long time to be able to play like yourself. - Miles Davis
stroggos
Profile Joined February 2009
New Zealand1543 Posts
February 13 2011 01:15 GMT
#3
On February 13 2011 09:44 CampinSam wrote:
This is a very interesting guide, and seems to be very useful.
is a bit confusing however. I applaud your use of math to make a fairly understandable guide.

It is indeed good to have a standard build order and being able to adapt with it (I.E. 2gate robo)
it seems, that this, while well thought out post, but is widely known? as in, adapting to your opponent is a good way to play, but i believe your approach is to have a specific build for each variation that you see?

if so, that is incredibly taxxing on your brain, having a reaction to every single action that you see. also, what would you do if you were cheesed, would you still go to a solid build order, or perhaps a more loose and fluid order more focusing on what you need instead of adapting.

blah, i think im talking in a circle, sorry if i dont make any sense.


hmm, i have 2000+ games played, and this playstyle has come to me over many games of experience and now it comes naturally. I didn't think about how hard it would be to pick up from scratch haha.

As for cheese, yeah this guide doesn't touch on the subject at all. If you're getting 6pooled, you have to change your build immediately after that, and i would reccomend just going with what you have after you are cheesed. I wouldn't worry much about following any sort of foundation build.
hi
reneg
Profile Joined September 2010
United States859 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-02-13 01:35:45
February 13 2011 01:35 GMT
#4
On February 13 2011 10:15 stroggos wrote:
Show nested quote +
On February 13 2011 09:44 CampinSam wrote:
As for cheese, yeah this guide doesn't touch on the subject at all. If you're getting 6pooled, you have to change your build immediately after that, and i would reccomend just going with what you have after you are cheesed. I wouldn't worry much about following any sort of foundation build.


I feel like that's the most important part behind this guide, and makes complete sense. everything's dependent upon the scouting, and if you scout cheese, you react appropriately.

after you hold off the cheese, you can easily get back on track to do the rest of the build, and it helps keep you organized and going down the standard path you picked to begin with, which keeps you in your comfort zone, b/c it's easier to play well when you're playing in a build you actively know and have practiced.
moose...indian
dementrio
Profile Joined November 2010
678 Posts
February 13 2011 01:59 GMT
#5
well,
on ladder you always have to play against people that deny scouting to the best of their ability, so I think pretty much anyone has safe builds against everything you can do based upon what they see. and some things like not having an expansion are pretty hard to hide.
The general idea of varying your play a bit is obviously OK but I find it hard to believe that someone in a tournament would blind counter what you did in the first game.
Bonham
Profile Joined November 2010
Canada655 Posts
February 23 2011 04:01 GMT
#6
Thanks for this interesting look at tournament play. I can tell you put a lot of time into the post.

But because I edit copy for a living: if you win the first two games of a Bo3 against a zerg, a third game will not be played. You could just change the "3" to a "5" in the OP and you'd be in the clear from grammar grognards like me.
zergrushkekeke
Profile Joined November 2010
Australia241 Posts
February 23 2011 05:22 GMT
#7
I've also noticed a lot of instant rematches on SEA, and usually if you won the first 1 or 2 they will fully tilt and just 6 pool, proxy gate or 2 rax scv all in. If they cheesed the first game they will most likely cheese the second too.

Don't know about tournaments or higher level laddering, can't you just put it down to players responding correctly to what they see in the game, what they know already about the opponent and just having solid practiced builds and mixing it up with some unseen or uncommon strategies? Or is this just a "let's tlak about game theory!!!111" thread?
KEKEKE
LesPhoques
Profile Joined December 2010
Canada782 Posts
February 23 2011 05:29 GMT
#8
On February 13 2011 08:54 stroggos wrote:
In the 2nd game they expect the same build, as your foundation build is the same. Instead they go straight to hydra tech and get owned by a 4gate blink stalker all in build order, because their hydras did not get out in time and they had no roaches.


No, not true at all. Fast Hydra beat blink stalkers, any time, any where
zergrushkekeke
Profile Joined November 2010
Australia241 Posts
February 23 2011 05:51 GMT
#9
Also I didn't want to say before as I'm not a terran player, but does that cute 4 rauders with stim + conc opening hurt your standard opening?
IF you play a terran who opens like this 5 times do you change your foundation?
KEKEKE
Please log in or register to reply.
Live Events Refresh
BSL: ProLeague
18:00
Bracket Stage: Day 2
HBO vs Doodle
spx vs Tech
DragOn vs Hawk
Dewalt vs TerrOr
ZZZero.O328
Liquipedia
[ Submit Event ]
Live Streams
Refresh
StarCraft 2
CosmosSc2 125
EnDerr 46
StarCraft: Brood War
Calm 2771
Rain 1402
Horang2 376
ZZZero.O 328
Artosis 228
Dota 2
NeuroSwarm55
LuMiX1
League of Legends
tarik_tv13207
Dendi1634
Counter-Strike
Stewie2K502
Super Smash Bros
C9.Mang012282
Mew2King70
Heroes of the Storm
Grubby3541
Liquid`Hasu511
Khaldor165
Other Games
summit1g7391
FrodaN774
JimRising 532
Mlord482
ViBE129
elazer107
Maynarde62
KnowMe37
Organizations
Dota 2
PGL Dota 2 - Secondary Stream5668
Other Games
gamesdonequick1307
BasetradeTV135
StarCraft 2
Blizzard YouTube
StarCraft: Brood War
BSLTrovo
sctven
[ Show 22 non-featured ]
StarCraft 2
• Berry_CruncH237
• musti20045 63
• Hupsaiya 62
• StrangeGG 45
• RyuSc2 36
• Adnapsc2 30
• Migwel
• AfreecaTV YouTube
• sooper7s
• intothetv
• Kozan
• IndyKCrew
• LaughNgamezSOOP
StarCraft: Brood War
• 3DClanTV 39
• STPLYoutube
• ZZZeroYoutube
• BSLYoutube
Dota 2
• masondota22124
• Ler152
League of Legends
• Doublelift6504
• Shiphtur288
Other Games
• imaqtpie2043
Upcoming Events
Wardi Open
12h 39m
Replay Cast
1d 1h
Replay Cast
1d 11h
WardiTV Invitational
1d 12h
WardiTV Invitational
1d 12h
GSL Code S
2 days
Rogue vs GuMiho
Maru vs Solar
Online Event
3 days
Replay Cast
3 days
GSL Code S
3 days
herO vs Zoun
Classic vs Bunny
The PondCast
3 days
[ Show More ]
Replay Cast
4 days
WardiTV Invitational
4 days
Korean StarCraft League
5 days
CranKy Ducklings
5 days
WardiTV Invitational
5 days
Cheesadelphia
5 days
GSL Code S
6 days
Sparkling Tuna Cup
6 days
Liquipedia Results

Completed

Proleague 2025-06-05
BGE Stara Zagora 2025
Heroes 10 EU

Ongoing

JPL Season 2
BSL 2v2 Season 3
BSL Season 20
KCM Race Survival 2025 Season 2
NPSL S3
Rose Open S1
CSL Season 17: Qualifier 2
2025 GSL S2
BLAST.tv Austin Major 2025
ESL Impact League Season 7
IEM Dallas 2025
PGL Astana 2025
Asian Champions League '25
ECL Season 49: Europe
BLAST Rivals Spring 2025
MESA Nomadic Masters
CCT Season 2 Global Finals
IEM Melbourne 2025
YaLLa Compass Qatar 2025
PGL Bucharest 2025
BLAST Open Spring 2025

Upcoming

CSL 17: 2025 SUMMER
Copa Latinoamericana 4
CSLPRO Last Chance 2025
CSLPRO Chat StarLAN 3
K-Championship
SEL Season 2 Championship
Esports World Cup 2025
HSC XXVII
Championship of Russia 2025
Murky Cup #2
Esports World Cup 2025
BLAST Bounty Fall 2025
BLAST Bounty Fall Qual
IEM Cologne 2025
FISSURE Playground #1
TLPD

1. ByuN
2. TY
3. Dark
4. Solar
5. Stats
6. Nerchio
7. sOs
8. soO
9. INnoVation
10. Elazer
1. Rain
2. Flash
3. EffOrt
4. Last
5. Bisu
6. Soulkey
7. Mini
8. Sharp
Sidebar Settings...

Advertising | Privacy Policy | Terms Of Use | Contact Us

Original banner artwork: Jim Warren
The contents of this webpage are copyright © 2025 TLnet. All Rights Reserved.