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[M] (2) Dread Wastes

Forum Index > SC2 Maps & Custom Games
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1 2 Next All
lorestarcraft
Profile Joined April 2011
United States1049 Posts
Last Edited: 2013-02-06 03:46:46
February 04 2013 21:42 GMT
#1
Hey guys, this map is the product of neat little idea I had while playing WoW the other day. Basically the asthetic theme is the whole inspiration I had for the map, which is designed to resemble the Dread Wastes region in Pandaria.

The other concept I wanted to work on was making a small map, since I have up to now only made large maps. The product of these thoughts is this little fun map called:
WoW image for reference:+ Show Spoiler +
[image loading]


Dread Wastes
128x128 playable
Nat to Nat rush distance (worker): 30 seconds

Overview:
[image loading]
New ramp texturing:
[image loading]
Terrain features: (OLD)
+ Show Spoiler +
[image loading][image loading][image loading][image loading][image loading]
SC2 Mapmaker
iamcaustic
Profile Blog Joined May 2011
Canada1509 Posts
February 04 2013 23:09 GMT
#2
First thing I'd say is that the texturing needs work. While I really dig the concept, it is very hard to read the map. For a comparison of what I mean by this, Ohana saw some changes to its texturing when it became a ladder map for the sake of improved clarity:

+ Show Spoiler [Original] +
[image loading]

+ Show Spoiler [LE version] +
[image loading]
Twitter: @iamcaustic
lorestarcraft
Profile Joined April 2011
United States1049 Posts
February 05 2013 00:45 GMT
#3
On February 05 2013 08:09 iamcaustic wrote:
First thing I'd say is that the texturing needs work. While I really dig the concept, it is very hard to read the map. For a comparison of what I mean by this, Ohana saw some changes to its texturing when it became a ladder map for the sake of improved clarity:

+ Show Spoiler [Original] +
[image loading]

+ Show Spoiler [LE version] +
[image loading]


Yeah, I can see that. I can definitely improve the clarity. Thanks for "digging" the concept
SC2 Mapmaker
Insomni7
Profile Joined June 2011
667 Posts
February 05 2013 00:53 GMT
#4
I CANT SEE THE MINERALZ

Maybe make them gold patches for aesthetics but with the properties of normal minerals?
Never Forget.
iamcaustic
Profile Blog Joined May 2011
Canada1509 Posts
Last Edited: 2013-02-05 00:58:52
February 05 2013 00:58 GMT
#5
On February 05 2013 09:53 Insomni7 wrote:
I CANT SEE THE MINERALZ

Maybe make them gold patches for aesthetics but with the properties of normal minerals?

Not really a fan of that idea, as it would cause quite a bit of confusion. Rich mineral fields function quite differently from regular mineral fields and everyone is familiar with this difference. Adding clarity to the map textures solves the issue without doing weird changes like that.
Twitter: @iamcaustic
EatThePath
Profile Blog Joined September 2009
United States3943 Posts
February 05 2013 02:13 GMT
#6
On February 05 2013 09:58 iamcaustic wrote:
Show nested quote +
On February 05 2013 09:53 Insomni7 wrote:
I CANT SEE THE MINERALZ

Maybe make them gold patches for aesthetics but with the properties of normal minerals?

Not really a fan of that idea, as it would cause quite a bit of confusion. Rich mineral fields function quite differently from regular mineral fields and everyone is familiar with this difference. Adding clarity to the map textures solves the issue without doing weird changes like that.

If you really want to you can make them purple, which won't be confused for high yield, but will make them show up better. Or cyan, or whatever cool color.
Comprehensive strategic intention: DNE
lorestarcraft
Profile Joined April 2011
United States1049 Posts
February 05 2013 02:27 GMT
#7
On February 05 2013 11:13 EatThePath wrote:
Show nested quote +
On February 05 2013 09:58 iamcaustic wrote:
On February 05 2013 09:53 Insomni7 wrote:
I CANT SEE THE MINERALZ

Maybe make them gold patches for aesthetics but with the properties of normal minerals?

Not really a fan of that idea, as it would cause quite a bit of confusion. Rich mineral fields function quite differently from regular mineral fields and everyone is familiar with this difference. Adding clarity to the map textures solves the issue without doing weird changes like that.

If you really want to you can make them purple, which won't be confused for high yield, but will make them show up better. Or cyan, or whatever cool color.

Or red??
SC2 Mapmaker
EatThePath
Profile Blog Joined September 2009
United States3943 Posts
February 05 2013 02:29 GMT
#8
On February 05 2013 11:27 lorestarcraft wrote:
Show nested quote +
On February 05 2013 11:13 EatThePath wrote:
On February 05 2013 09:58 iamcaustic wrote:
On February 05 2013 09:53 Insomni7 wrote:
I CANT SEE THE MINERALZ

Maybe make them gold patches for aesthetics but with the properties of normal minerals?

Not really a fan of that idea, as it would cause quite a bit of confusion. Rich mineral fields function quite differently from regular mineral fields and everyone is familiar with this difference. Adding clarity to the map textures solves the issue without doing weird changes like that.

If you really want to you can make them purple, which won't be confused for high yield, but will make them show up better. Or cyan, or whatever cool color.

Or red??

Red is a warm color.
Comprehensive strategic intention: DNE
Unsane
Profile Joined September 2010
Canada170 Posts
Last Edited: 2013-02-05 02:43:06
February 05 2013 02:41 GMT
#9
I really like the colour scheme and if it only creates problems when viewing the map like this as opposed to in game Id suggest just releasing a version merely for the sake of overview, if possible. (i admit i am no way familiar with the editor and have no idea how difficult this might be).

EDIT: cyan mineral patches might work nicely
"What is the plural of y'all? All y'all." -Day9
Insomni7
Profile Joined June 2011
667 Posts
February 05 2013 03:13 GMT
#10
Wait, you can change teh color of minerals? Tell me how!
Never Forget.
lorestarcraft
Profile Joined April 2011
United States1049 Posts
February 05 2013 03:46 GMT
#11
On February 05 2013 11:41 Unsane wrote:
I really like the colour scheme and if it only creates problems when viewing the map like this as opposed to in game Id suggest just releasing a version merely for the sake of overview, if possible. (i admit i am no way familiar with the editor and have no idea how difficult this might be).

EDIT: cyan mineral patches might work nicely

It is much easier to interperet in-game. But, I still wannna mess with the textures
SC2 Mapmaker
iamcaustic
Profile Blog Joined May 2011
Canada1509 Posts
February 05 2013 03:54 GMT
#12
On February 05 2013 11:41 Unsane wrote:
I really like the colour scheme and if it only creates problems when viewing the map like this as opposed to in game Id suggest just releasing a version merely for the sake of overview, if possible. (i admit i am no way familiar with the editor and have no idea how difficult this might be).

EDIT: cyan mineral patches might work nicely

It's also a matter of reading the minimap while in game. That one is critically important when considering map aesthetics.
Twitter: @iamcaustic
Unsane
Profile Joined September 2010
Canada170 Posts
Last Edited: 2013-02-05 04:55:31
February 05 2013 04:34 GMT
#13
On February 05 2013 12:54 iamcaustic wrote:
Show nested quote +
On February 05 2013 11:41 Unsane wrote:
I really like the colour scheme and if it only creates problems when viewing the map like this as opposed to in game Id suggest just releasing a version merely for the sake of overview, if possible. (i admit i am no way familiar with the editor and have no idea how difficult this might be).

EDIT: cyan mineral patches might work nicely

It's also a matter of reading the minimap while in game. That one is critically important when considering map aesthetics.


While i do agree with you, even if you were to reduce how visible minerals were on maps (making them completely invisible) a player should know where a base is, simply by layout. Leaving alone how you can turn off terrain on the minimap in game, Im going to go ahead and claim that if this map made it into the blizzard ladder pool, and a player did not even briefly view the map in either the load screen or in the map preferences screen, then let him be punished (if at all) for not taking even a single moment to consider the layout.

EDIT: There should simply be a colour option for significant doodads on the minimap. Say for a very white map you'd make the mineral patches and geysers black or purple. On this blue map you could make them orange or black or something other than blue. but im not sure if this exists in editor, i only assume it doesnt because no one has used it.

EDIT2: Remember, we are in this subforum essentially trying to produce functional works of art that sometimes breaks rules that we feel are arbitrary but the policing staff (blizzard) has imposed.
-Say someone bought a piece of art and liked it so much they wanted to open a gallery or museum where they could collect and show off the works they've found that are similar to the claimed 'first masterpiece'. Very quickly would all the paintings look identical if you forced the rules X, Y, and Z simply because they liked number1 so much. Obviously people would lose interest in the gallery if these rules forced too many similarities, and the 8 or so currently presented options all look (and function) the same.

If there are 2 hurdles blue minerals on blue grounds creates, the first is visibility and the second is stupidity. Id much rather put forward more effort to combat stupidity than to lazily combat visibility. This is maybe too much 'ideals' and not enough 'practicality' but perhaps blizz needs to increase their editors array of functions or have a greater faith in humanity. (even if all they see on their own forums would destroy anyone's faith in humanity)
"What is the plural of y'all? All y'all." -Day9
lorestarcraft
Profile Joined April 2011
United States1049 Posts
February 05 2013 06:08 GMT
#14
The OP is updated with a new overview
SC2 Mapmaker
Vindicare605
Profile Blog Joined August 2011
United States16125 Posts
February 05 2013 06:12 GMT
#15
I really like the aesthetic theme. I think you met your goal of making a map that resembles the WoW zone. This looks great!
aka: KTVindicare the Geeky Bartender
iamcaustic
Profile Blog Joined May 2011
Canada1509 Posts
Last Edited: 2013-02-05 06:35:12
February 05 2013 06:34 GMT
#16
On February 05 2013 13:34 Unsane wrote:
Show nested quote +
On February 05 2013 12:54 iamcaustic wrote:
On February 05 2013 11:41 Unsane wrote:
I really like the colour scheme and if it only creates problems when viewing the map like this as opposed to in game Id suggest just releasing a version merely for the sake of overview, if possible. (i admit i am no way familiar with the editor and have no idea how difficult this might be).

EDIT: cyan mineral patches might work nicely

It's also a matter of reading the minimap while in game. That one is critically important when considering map aesthetics.


While i do agree with you, even if you were to reduce how visible minerals were on maps (making them completely invisible) a player should know where a base is, simply by layout. Leaving alone how you can turn off terrain on the minimap in game, Im going to go ahead and claim that if this map made it into the blizzard ladder pool, and a player did not even briefly view the map in either the load screen or in the map preferences screen, then let him be punished (if at all) for not taking even a single moment to consider the layout.

EDIT: There should simply be a colour option for significant doodads on the minimap. Say for a very white map you'd make the mineral patches and geysers black or purple. On this blue map you could make them orange or black or something other than blue. but im not sure if this exists in editor, i only assume it doesnt because no one has used it.

EDIT2: Remember, we are in this subforum essentially trying to produce functional works of art that sometimes breaks rules that we feel are arbitrary but the policing staff (blizzard) has imposed.
-Say someone bought a piece of art and liked it so much they wanted to open a gallery or museum where they could collect and show off the works they've found that are similar to the claimed 'first masterpiece'. Very quickly would all the paintings look identical if you forced the rules X, Y, and Z simply because they liked number1 so much. Obviously people would lose interest in the gallery if these rules forced too many similarities, and the 8 or so currently presented options all look (and function) the same.

If there are 2 hurdles blue minerals on blue grounds creates, the first is visibility and the second is stupidity. Id much rather put forward more effort to combat stupidity than to lazily combat visibility. This is maybe too much 'ideals' and not enough 'practicality' but perhaps blizz needs to increase their editors array of functions or have a greater faith in humanity. (even if all they see on their own forums would destroy anyone's faith in humanity)

I wasn't talking about tinting minerals. I was talking about being able to clearly read a map overview and how it's important when interacting with the in-game minimap. Saying the aesthetics "only" affects the overview is an understatement.

If you guys want to play with different mineral tints, so long as they don't get confused with rich mineral fields, then by all means.
Twitter: @iamcaustic
Unsane
Profile Joined September 2010
Canada170 Posts
Last Edited: 2013-02-05 08:25:51
February 05 2013 08:23 GMT
#17
I was sort of eluding that maybe we need to petition blizzard to add this feature to the editor, an option -'which colours represent mineral patches on this map's minimap?' instead of changing the maps :S This option could be handy for many maps

EDIT: in your example of Ohana, i think that was more for two differnt reasons, A) Attack paths may be difficult to discern, B) thats a lot of doodads. As opposed to be able to discern where mineral patches are and therefore potential base locations.
"What is the plural of y'all? All y'all." -Day9
iamcaustic
Profile Blog Joined May 2011
Canada1509 Posts
February 05 2013 10:36 GMT
#18
On February 05 2013 17:23 Unsane wrote:
I was sort of eluding that maybe we need to petition blizzard to add this feature to the editor, an option -'which colours represent mineral patches on this map's minimap?' instead of changing the maps :S This option could be handy for many maps

EDIT: in your example of Ohana, i think that was more for two differnt reasons, A) Attack paths may be difficult to discern, B) thats a lot of doodads. As opposed to be able to discern where mineral patches are and therefore potential base locations.

There's nothing wrong with identifying resources on the minimap, no matter the texturing work. o_O The aesthetic issue with this map is the same as the issue with Ohana -- being able to cleanly identify cliffs, ramps, and attack paths at a glance.
Twitter: @iamcaustic
lorestarcraft
Profile Joined April 2011
United States1049 Posts
February 05 2013 18:45 GMT
#19
On February 05 2013 19:36 iamcaustic wrote:
Show nested quote +
On February 05 2013 17:23 Unsane wrote:
I was sort of eluding that maybe we need to petition blizzard to add this feature to the editor, an option -'which colours represent mineral patches on this map's minimap?' instead of changing the maps :S This option could be handy for many maps

EDIT: in your example of Ohana, i think that was more for two differnt reasons, A) Attack paths may be difficult to discern, B) thats a lot of doodads. As opposed to be able to discern where mineral patches are and therefore potential base locations.

There's nothing wrong with identifying resources on the minimap, no matter the texturing work. o_O The aesthetic issue with this map is the same as the issue with Ohana -- being able to cleanly identify cliffs, ramps, and attack paths at a glance.

There no issue when playing like there is on the overview, I had several people play on it. Also, the minerals are the regular blue if you are playing, but black if you are spectating, which is really odd...
SC2 Mapmaker
iamcaustic
Profile Blog Joined May 2011
Canada1509 Posts
Last Edited: 2013-02-06 00:18:34
February 06 2013 00:04 GMT
#20
On February 06 2013 03:45 lorestarcraft wrote:
Show nested quote +
On February 05 2013 19:36 iamcaustic wrote:
On February 05 2013 17:23 Unsane wrote:
I was sort of eluding that maybe we need to petition blizzard to add this feature to the editor, an option -'which colours represent mineral patches on this map's minimap?' instead of changing the maps :S This option could be handy for many maps

EDIT: in your example of Ohana, i think that was more for two differnt reasons, A) Attack paths may be difficult to discern, B) thats a lot of doodads. As opposed to be able to discern where mineral patches are and therefore potential base locations.

There's nothing wrong with identifying resources on the minimap, no matter the texturing work. o_O The aesthetic issue with this map is the same as the issue with Ohana -- being able to cleanly identify cliffs, ramps, and attack paths at a glance.

There no issue when playing like there is on the overview, I had several people play on it. Also, the minerals are the regular blue if you are playing, but black if you are spectating, which is really odd...

That is pretty weird. o_O Anyway, I loaded up the map myself to demonstrate my point, but there were a number of other QA issues I stumbled across. Allow me to catalogue them.

As for the original issue of minimap visual clarity, it's instances like this that call for some aesthetic refinement:

[image loading]


Within that red circle are 2 ramps and a cliff edge that basically spans the diameter of the circle, but you wouldn't know it looking at the minimap. Keeping on point with visual clarity, I noticed something peculiar...

+ Show Spoiler [A peculiar thing indeed] +
[image loading]
One of these pools is not like the others


While it wouldn't take a rocket scientist to sit there for a moment and figure out that one specific pool is actually an un-pathable cliff, the water here muddies the visual clarity of map pathing. There's also another issue with these pools of water, and it has to do with how the game handles building on uneven ground.

+ Show Spoiler [Terrain madness] +
[image loading]
Hey, this looks like a nice place to set up shop.

[image loading]
Don't mind me, just buildin' a base.

[image loading]
Actually nevermind, the location sucks-- OH GOD WHAT HAVE I DONE?


Basically, the game will attempt to flatten the terrain when a building is constructed on it, which results in some interesting shifting. It also causes performance issues on lower-end PCs, or at least that was Blizzard's reason for requesting the same aesthetic style be removed from Ohana.

+ Show Spoiler [ESV Ohana RE] +
[image loading]


Moving on, I also noticed a few other fun things.

+ Show Spoiler [The Case of the Missing SCV] +

[image loading]
One day an SCV stumbled upon a mysterious square, black hole. He disappeared, never to be found again.

[image loading]
Oh wait, we found him! Turns out it was a tunnel to China. The End.


+ Show Spoiler [Various issues with pathing] +

[image loading]
Haha! They'll never suspect my supply depot is INSIDE A ROCK!

[image loading]

[image loading]

[image loading]
Various SCV rock tunnelling adventures

[image loading]
DAMMIT JIM, STOP HIDING YOUR SUPPLY DEPOTS IN ROCKS


That is all for now.

EDIT: Whoops, posted the big versions of images at first.
Twitter: @iamcaustic
1 2 Next All
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