• Log InLog In
  • Register
Liquid`
Team Liquid Liquipedia
EDT 10:48
CEST 16:48
KST 23:48
  • Home
  • Forum
  • Calendar
  • Streams
  • Liquipedia
  • Features
  • Store
  • EPT
  • TL+
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Smash
  • Heroes
  • Counter-Strike
  • Overwatch
  • Liquibet
  • Fantasy StarCraft
  • TLPD
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Blogs
Forum Sidebar
Events/Features
News
Featured News
[ASL21] Ro24 Preview Pt2: News Flash10[ASL21] Ro24 Preview Pt1: New Chaos0Team Liquid Map Contest #22 - Presented by Monster Energy18ByuL: The Forgotten Master of ZvT30Behind the Blue - Team Liquid History Book20
Community News
Weekly Cups (May 30-Apr 5): herO, Clem, SHIN win0[BSL22] RO32 Group Stage3Weekly Cups (March 23-29): herO takes triple6Aligulac acquired by REPLAYMAN.com/Stego Research8Weekly Cups (March 16-22): herO doubles, Cure surprises3
StarCraft 2
General
Weekly Cups (May 30-Apr 5): herO, Clem, SHIN win Rongyi Cup S3 - Preview & Info Team Liquid Map Contest #22 - Presented by Monster Energy Blizzard Classic Cup @ BlizzCon 2026 - $100k prize pool What mix of new & old maps do you want in the next ladder pool? (SC2)
Tourneys
GSL CK - monthly team event Sparkling Tuna Cup - Weekly Open Tournament RSL Season 4 announced for March-April StarCraft Evolution League (SC Evo Biweekly) WardiTV Mondays
Strategy
Custom Maps
[M] (2) Frigid Storage Publishing has been re-enabled! [Feb 24th 2026]
External Content
The PondCast: SC2 News & Results Mutation # 520 Moving Fees Mutation # 519 Inner Power Mutation # 518 Radiation Zone
Brood War
General
Pros React To: JaeDong vs Queen [BSL22] RO32 Group Stage so ive been playing broodwar for a week straight. ASL21 General Discussion Gypsy to Korea
Tourneys
[Megathread] Daily Proleagues [ASL21] Ro24 Group F Escore Tournament StarCraft Season 2 [ASL21] Ro24 Group E
Strategy
What's the deal with APM & what's its true value Fighting Spirit mining rates Simple Questions, Simple Answers
Other Games
General Games
Stormgate/Frost Giant Megathread Starcraft Tabletop Miniature Game Nintendo Switch Thread General RTS Discussion Thread Darkest Dungeon
Dota 2
The Story of Wings Gaming Official 'what is Dota anymore' discussion
League of Legends
G2 just beat GenG in First stand
Heroes of the Storm
Simple Questions, Simple Answers Heroes of the Storm 2.0
Hearthstone
Deck construction bug Heroes of StarCraft mini-set
TL Mafia
Mafia Game Mode Feedback/Ideas TL Mafia Community Thread Five o'clock TL Mafia
Community
General
US Politics Mega-thread The Chess Thread Russo-Ukrainian War Thread NASA and the Private Sector Things Aren’t Peaceful in Palestine
Fan Clubs
The IdrA Fan Club
Media & Entertainment
[Manga] One Piece [Req][Books] Good Fantasy/SciFi books Movie Discussion!
Sports
2024 - 2026 Football Thread Formula 1 Discussion Cricket [SPORT] Tokyo Olympics 2021 Thread General nutrition recommendations
World Cup 2022
Tech Support
[G] How to Block Livestream Ads
TL Community
The Automated Ban List
Blogs
Loot Boxes—Emotions, And Why…
TrAiDoS
Broowar part 2
qwaykee
Funny Nicknames
LUCKY_NOOB
Iranian anarchists: organize…
XenOsky
FS++
Kraekkling
ASL S21 English Commentary…
namkraft
Electronics
mantequilla
Customize Sidebar...

Website Feedback

Closed Threads



Active: 2232 users

Power Rank 01/01/2011 - Page 21

Forum Index > Polls & Liquibet
Post a Reply
Prev 1 19 20 21 22 23 56 Next
Holgerius
Profile Blog Joined January 2009
Sweden16951 Posts
January 12 2011 21:50 GMT
#401
Now take a look at his records vs them in BoX's.
I believe in the almighty Grötslev! -- I am never serious and you should never believe a thing I say. Including the previous sentence.
blade55555
Profile Blog Joined March 2009
United States17423 Posts
January 12 2011 22:06 GMT
#402
On January 13 2011 06:32 Goragoth wrote:
Fun fact: after his loss to (P)Stork last night (Z)Jaedong is now 0-6 against (P)Stork in team leagues. That's right, he's never beaten (P)Stork in PL ever. He's also 1-7 against (P)Bisu in team leagues, with a lone PL win on Destination in '08.


Yeah I find that weird how Jaedong never beats them (when I watch) in proleague but he'll beat them in a bo5 or something. Jaedongs weird like that I guess :D
When I think of something else, something will go here
Holgerius
Profile Blog Joined January 2009
Sweden16951 Posts
January 12 2011 22:20 GMT
#403
I think it's such a shame that Flash is knocked out of all individual leagues, not just because I'm a big fan of him, but imagine a Bo5 between a Stork who's in the form of his life vs God. I know everyone's tired of Flash's dominance and all, but that could've been soooooo good.
I believe in the almighty Grötslev! -- I am never serious and you should never believe a thing I say. Including the previous sentence.
Lightwip
Profile Blog Joined April 2010
United States5497 Posts
January 13 2011 00:36 GMT
#404
On January 13 2011 07:20 Holgerius wrote:
I think it's such a shame that Flash is knocked out of all individual leagues, not just because I'm a big fan of him, but imagine a Bo5 between a Stork who's in the form of his life vs God. I know everyone's tired of Flash's dominance and all, but that could've been soooooo good.

I'd rather see Fantasy play because Flash has won too many titles.
And there's always a chance we'll see a repeat of their last final. Flash sometimes has his 'timing attack' days.
If you are not Bisu, chances are I hate you.
StylishVODs
Profile Joined December 2005
Sweden5331 Posts
January 13 2011 00:41 GMT
#405
Although a Bo5 vs stork and flash would be much easier for the PR writer.
Usually Flash's Bo5 vs protoss are really onesided, but if anyone can put up a fight it's stork when he's on fire, too bad we won't see it.

I've always enjoyed fantasys Bo5's though.

According to Reach, he is the fastest learner he has ever seen. He start bw only like 2/3 years ago. Infact, his bw history knowledge is so limited, he didn't even know what the map Guillotine was.
Holgerius
Profile Blog Joined January 2009
Sweden16951 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-01-13 00:49:38
January 13 2011 00:48 GMT
#406
Fantasy vs Stork would be great as well of course, but Flash vs Stork could've been fucking amazing. Best TvP'er of all time vs the best PvT'er of all time.

Hmmm, now that I think about it, has Flash lost a Bo5 vs any Toss since the one vs Stork back in '07?
I believe in the almighty Grötslev! -- I am never serious and you should never believe a thing I say. Including the previous sentence.
Mortality
Profile Blog Joined December 2005
United States4790 Posts
January 13 2011 04:29 GMT
#407
On January 13 2011 04:56 Crisium wrote:
Ha, it's far too early to be calling spots for next PR. There's no reason Flash won't go up if he continues to dominate Winner's League. But we cannot place him in an exact spot yet - there are many games yet to come for everyone.

The return of Fantasy next month is assured though. Hi exclusion is still my biggest disappointment for this PR.

Someone linked to an old Flash thread from 2007. How about an old Stork?

http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=56666

Should put a smile on your face. Stork had to wait a while more but did win a gold in November 2008. And now he stands a serious chance of getting one or even two more soon.


I like Fantasy, but he was god awful last month. I've said this repeatedly and I'll say it again: something spooked him. He went from playing the best Starcraft of his career to struggling, dropping 100 ELO points along the way. This is one of those cases where the PR writer has to make a difficult choice: do I keep one of the most talented players in SC who is probably just going through a rough spot in the PR, or do I boot him for other players who are playing better Starcraft and producing better results? IMO, the correct choice was made.

This month he seems to be back. With a vengeance.
Even though this Proleague bullshit has been completely bogus, I really, really, really do not see how Khan can lose this. I swear I will kill myself if they do. - nesix before KHAN lost to eNature
Mortality
Profile Blog Joined December 2005
United States4790 Posts
January 13 2011 04:31 GMT
#408
On January 13 2011 09:48 Holgerius wrote:
Fantasy vs Stork would be great as well of course, but Flash vs Stork could've been fucking amazing. Best TvP'er of all time vs the best PvT'er of all time.

Hmmm, now that I think about it, has Flash lost a Bo5 vs any Toss since the one vs Stork back in '07?


Seconds best TvPer.

St.Eagle. Too bad nobody remembers him anymore. He fucking invented TvP.
Even though this Proleague bullshit has been completely bogus, I really, really, really do not see how Khan can lose this. I swear I will kill myself if they do. - nesix before KHAN lost to eNature
baubo
Profile Joined September 2008
China3370 Posts
January 13 2011 06:11 GMT
#409
On January 13 2011 09:48 Holgerius wrote:
Fantasy vs Stork would be great as well of course, but Flash vs Stork could've been fucking amazing. Best TvP'er of all time vs the best PvT'er of all time.

Hmmm, now that I think about it, has Flash lost a Bo5 vs any Toss since the one vs Stork back in '07?


I remember Bisu beating Flash multiples times in BoX series. This was during the days when Flash was basically auto-loss to every top protoss he faced. Before Forgg went to KT and told Flash the concept of timing-attack. Come to think of it, I think ForGG deserves quite a bit of credit for making Flash the well-rounded monster of a player he is today.

Anyway, it's definitely sad that Flash and Stork hasn't had a chance to renew their rivalry since the Bacchus OSL. Flash whipping the likes of Kal/Movie/Free/etc. while Stork beat on Fantasy/Sea/Mind/etc. just don't have the feeling of epicness.
Meh
SimonB
Profile Joined September 2008
United States1088 Posts
January 13 2011 07:00 GMT
#410
Considering ForGG's weak matchup for 2+ years has been vP, I think that's pretty tenuous.

Flash went through a period where he had a losing record versus the dragons, but he was never even close to an auto-loss, and because every other terran including Fantasy was experiencing the same thing, he was probably still the best TvP player during that period! (Crazy that even during his bad streaks, he's still the best terran.) It wasn't even that many games, but because he didn't play P that often over several months, and when he faced a dragon, he tended to lose, so people remember that as him being bad in the matchup.
SimonB
Profile Joined September 2008
United States1088 Posts
January 13 2011 07:04 GMT
#411
This is the period we're talking about.

http://www.teamliquid.net/tlpd/details.php?section=korean&type=players&id=424&part=games&vs=P&league=standard&map=any&from_year=2009&from_month=5&from_day=18&to_year=2009&to_month=12&to_day=2&action=Update

Not too bad, really, when you consider that is an entirely cherry-picked span of games and there were a lot of good players in there spread out over 7 months.
nodule
Profile Joined February 2008
Canada931 Posts
January 13 2011 07:36 GMT
#412
Don't be silly. Flash did timing attacks before ForGG went to KT. It is true that he went through a period of trying to win only through 'management' games.
Holgerius
Profile Blog Joined January 2009
Sweden16951 Posts
January 13 2011 07:50 GMT
#413
On January 13 2011 15:11 baubo wrote:
Show nested quote +
On January 13 2011 09:48 Holgerius wrote:
Fantasy vs Stork would be great as well of course, but Flash vs Stork could've been fucking amazing. Best TvP'er of all time vs the best PvT'er of all time.

Hmmm, now that I think about it, has Flash lost a Bo5 vs any Toss since the one vs Stork back in '07?


I remember Bisu beating Flash multiples times in BoX series.

Don't think any of those were Bo5s though.
I believe in the almighty Grötslev! -- I am never serious and you should never believe a thing I say. Including the previous sentence.
Severedevil
Profile Blog Joined April 2009
United States4839 Posts
January 13 2011 08:16 GMT
#414
On January 13 2011 16:04 SimonB wrote:
This is the period we're talking about.

http://www.teamliquid.net/tlpd/details.php?section=korean&type=players&id=424&part=games&vs=P&league=standard&map=any&from_year=2009&from_month=5&from_day=18&to_year=2009&to_month=12&to_day=2&action=Update

Not too bad, really, when you consider that is an entirely cherry-picked span of games and there were a lot of good players in there spread out over 7 months.

Seven months? No. Nine-to-ten months.

Between defeating Kal on February 11th, 2009 and defeating Best on December 31st, 2009, Flash played against every Dragon except Free (even counting Much & Backho) and lost to all of them in every match, with the sole exception of a 1-2 Bo3 against Bisu. Flash's TvP Dragon-Loss Period.

Fantasy's TvP was quite successful during this time period, even against Dragons.

But folks weren't too worried about Flash past ~October 2009, since Flash was dominating TvT and TvZ. The serious 'Flash slump' was prior to the summer recess, when Flash had a months-long period of losing reliably to EVERY top 7 PvT player he played and EVERY top 7 ZvT player he played, resulting in Kwanro making a Starleague final. (Fantasy was very strong at the time even against top Zerg/Protoss.) Flash maintained a strong win percentage over a lot of games through solid TvT and defeating lesser Zerg/Protoss players very reliably.

Then Flash went Super Saiyan, won nearly everything for three seasons, and was crowned as a bonjwa. So any fears for his future are premature at best.
My strategy is to fork people.
baubo
Profile Joined September 2008
China3370 Posts
January 13 2011 09:13 GMT
#415
On January 13 2011 16:00 SimonB wrote:
Considering ForGG's weak matchup for 2+ years has been vP, I think that's pretty tenuous.


I'm not sure how that changes the fact that ForGG is one of the best terrans when it comes to attack timings. Just like Kwanro's weak overall game change the fact that he does some of the most awesome all-in builds ever.

On January 13 2011 16:36 nodule wrote:
Don't be silly. Flash did timing attacks before ForGG went to KT. It is true that he went through a period of trying to win only through 'management' games.


Flash never was a timing attack person before ForGG. When he first got onto the scene, he CHEESED a lot. Cheese and understanding of timing are two different things. You can debate how much of an influence forgg was, but not the fact that Flash had a great sense of timing before his "management phase". Flash's seemingly map-hack sense of timing did not exist even when he beat the crap out of Stork back in 08.
Meh
nodule
Profile Joined February 2008
Canada931 Posts
January 13 2011 09:58 GMT
#416
You're right that Flash hadn't yet developed his ultra-precise early game timing attacks. It's going too far to say that he didn't have a great sense of timing, however. The TvP Flash Build is essentially a 3-base timing attack with +2/+1.
Holgerius
Profile Blog Joined January 2009
Sweden16951 Posts
January 13 2011 10:34 GMT
#417
Both game 1 and 3 in the OSL win vs Stork were 2 base pushes. Game 3 was a perfect 5 Fac timing push iirc.
I believe in the almighty Grötslev! -- I am never serious and you should never believe a thing I say. Including the previous sentence.
Fenrax
Profile Blog Joined January 2010
United States5018 Posts
January 13 2011 11:13 GMT
#418
#1 this month proves himself
Holgerius
Profile Blog Joined January 2009
Sweden16951 Posts
January 13 2011 11:15 GMT
#419
SONG BYUNG GOO! SONG BYUNG GOO! SONG BYUNG GOO!

:D

That was so dominant. He's gonna get those dual silvers this season. ^__^
I believe in the almighty Grötslev! -- I am never serious and you should never believe a thing I say. Including the previous sentence.
]343[
Profile Blog Joined May 2008
United States10328 Posts
January 13 2011 11:15 GMT
#420
TIME TO DROP BISU TO 5
Writer
Prev 1 19 20 21 22 23 56 Next
Please log in or register to reply.
Live Events Refresh
Next event in 9h 12m
[ Submit Event ]
Live Streams
Refresh
StarCraft 2
LamboSC2 344
Hui .285
trigger 126
StarCraft: Brood War
Calm 4871
Bisu 3041
Horang2 2768
Jaedong 2254
EffOrt 720
Soma 699
Shuttle 658
Larva 412
Stork 376
Aegong 318
[ Show more ]
Snow 301
Light 290
Mini 257
ZerO 242
Soulkey 218
ggaemo 200
Hyuk 176
Rush 176
Sea.KH 87
JYJ 81
hero 74
Backho 53
[sc1f]eonzerg 51
Sharp 42
Shinee 38
sSak 35
Hm[arnc] 30
Movie 29
Terrorterran 18
910 17
Noble 16
Sacsri 15
ajuk12(nOOB) 14
soO 14
Dota 2
Gorgc4797
qojqva2396
Counter-Strike
fl0m2017
oskar101
Other Games
singsing2424
Liquid`RaSZi1243
B2W.Neo824
hiko729
Lowko416
crisheroes284
XcaliburYe137
XaKoH 128
ArmadaUGS93
QueenE87
Mew2King48
ZerO(Twitch)10
Trikslyr1
Organizations
Other Games
BasetradeTV540
StarCraft: Brood War
UltimateBattle 228
StarCraft 2
Blizzard YouTube
StarCraft: Brood War
BSLTrovo
sctven
[ Show 13 non-featured ]
StarCraft 2
• AfreecaTV YouTube
• intothetv
• Kozan
• IndyKCrew
• LaughNgamezSOOP
• Migwel
• sooper7s
StarCraft: Brood War
• BSLYoutube
• STPLYoutube
• ZZZeroYoutube
Dota 2
• WagamamaTV565
• lizZardDota250
League of Legends
• Nemesis3690
Upcoming Events
PiGosaur Cup
9h 12m
Replay Cast
18h 12m
Kung Fu Cup
20h 12m
Replay Cast
1d 9h
The PondCast
1d 19h
CranKy Ducklings
2 days
WardiTV Team League
2 days
Replay Cast
3 days
CranKy Ducklings
3 days
WardiTV Team League
3 days
[ Show More ]
uThermal 2v2 Circuit
4 days
BSL
4 days
Sparkling Tuna Cup
4 days
WardiTV Team League
4 days
BSL
5 days
Replay Cast
5 days
Replay Cast
5 days
Wardi Open
5 days
Liquipedia Results

Completed

CSL Elite League 2026
RSL Revival: Season 4
NationLESS Cup

Ongoing

BSL Season 22
ASL Season 21
CSL 2026 SPRING (S20)
StarCraft2 Community Team League 2026 Spring
Nations Cup 2026
PGL Bucharest 2026
Stake Ranked Episode 1
BLAST Open Spring 2026
ESL Pro League S23 Finals
ESL Pro League S23 Stage 1&2
PGL Cluj-Napoca 2026
IEM Kraków 2026
BLAST Bounty Winter 2026

Upcoming

Escore Tournament S2: W2
IPSL Spring 2026
Escore Tournament S2: W3
Acropolis #4
BSL 22 Non-Korean Championship
CSLAN 4
Kung Fu Cup 2026 Grand Finals
HSC XXIX
uThermal 2v2 2026 Main Event
RSL Revival: Season 5
IEM Cologne Major 2026
Stake Ranked Episode 2
CS Asia Championships 2026
Asian Champions League 2026
IEM Atlanta 2026
PGL Astana 2026
BLAST Rivals Spring 2026
CCT Season 3 Global Finals
IEM Rio 2026
TLPD

1. ByuN
2. TY
3. Dark
4. Solar
5. Stats
6. Nerchio
7. sOs
8. soO
9. INnoVation
10. Elazer
1. Rain
2. Flash
3. EffOrt
4. Last
5. Bisu
6. Soulkey
7. Mini
8. Sharp
Sidebar Settings...

Advertising | Privacy Policy | Terms Of Use | Contact Us

Original banner artwork: Jim Warren
The contents of this webpage are copyright © 2026 TLnet. All Rights Reserved.