On March 27 2009 00:18 vAltyR wrote: Man, who'd have thought Fantasy would beat Bisu? Frankly, I was shocked when I found out about that. IMO, he deserves the OSL title just for that.
Also, yeah by.hero is fast, but theres NO WAY he will beat jeadong. He's lifetime 1-2 on TV, STX isn't known for good ZvZers, and only 3 players have ever beaten jaedong more than once (and that was luxury, july and savior, only beating him twice, and he hasn't to to any of them since 2007).
ONLY 3 players have ever beaten Jaedong multiple times, none more than twice. But this does not truly capture JD's ZvZ domination. Almost 80% win rate, wow: July 2-2 Savior 2-2 Luxury 2-7
So actually, NO zerg has a winning record against JD! (Two are at 50%...)
by.hero has 500+ APM and doesn't afraid of anything.
The reason that Jaedong is so dominant at ZvZ is because he is by far the fastest Zerg player out there right now, and he can multitask in ZvZ much better than his opponents. hero also has that trait though, and if the first game goes past the first couple waves of Mutalisks, it becomes uncertain.
There's also the possibility of BO poker playing into this.
On March 27 2009 06:12 Carnivorous Sheep wrote: by.hero has 500+ APM and doesn't afraid of anything.
The reason that Jaedong is so dominant at ZvZ is because he is by far the fastest Zerg player out there right now, and he can multitask in ZvZ much better than his opponents. hero also has that trait though, and if the first game goes past the first couple waves of Mutalisks, it becomes uncertain.
There's also the possibility of BO poker playing into this.
by.hero hwaiting!
JD doesn't win just because he is faster and can multitask better. he wins not just because of that (and also he micros better than just about every other Z player) but mostly by his SUPERB decision making. most of his loses in ZvT and ZvP are from bad decision making, but he is BY FAR the smartest ZvZ player to ever live.
I would be absolutely stunned if by.hero even took a single game off Jaedong. I'm not sure there's even an adjective to describe the thought of by.hero winning the series.
On March 27 2009 06:12 Carnivorous Sheep wrote: by.hero has 500+ APM and doesn't afraid of anything.
The reason that Jaedong is so dominant at ZvZ is because he is by far the fastest Zerg player out there right now, and he can multitask in ZvZ much better than his opponents. hero also has that trait though, and if the first game goes past the first couple waves of Mutalisks, it becomes uncertain.
There's also the possibility of BO poker playing into this.
by.hero hwaiting!
First of all, I don't see how 500 APM+ is going to win by.hero any games against Jaedong. Besides, from the looks of those screenshots, his average APM seems to be around 400-450 which is, if the OP is correct, around the same as Jaedongs'. So the APM card is out.
And with what evidence is everyone basing their claims that by.hero has a chance against Jaedong? He played 3 lifetime televised ZvZ's, and the two recent ones were losses. I don't see how you can get an accurate representation of his ZvZ skill with those games. But Jaedong's lifetime 80% ZvZ winrate says a lot.
Besides, when has 'BO poker' ever stopped Jaedong?
On March 27 2009 06:12 Carnivorous Sheep wrote: Besides, when has 'BO poker' ever stopped Jaedong?
i remember jaedong playing a drone done from some extracter glitch and still winning, and all sorts of other scourge micro comebacks. also + Show Spoiler +
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NwplcDqMOxE this is suppose to beat jaedong?
On March 27 2009 06:12 Carnivorous Sheep wrote: by.hero has 500+ APM and doesn't afraid of anything.
The reason that Jaedong is so dominant at ZvZ is because he is by far the fastest Zerg player out there right now, and he can multitask in ZvZ much better than his opponents. hero also has that trait though, and if the first game goes past the first couple waves of Mutalisks, it becomes uncertain.
There's also the possibility of BO poker playing into this.
by.hero hwaiting!
First of all, I don't see how 500 APM+ is going to win by.hero any games against Jaedong. Besides, from the looks of those screenshots, his average APM seems to be around 400-450 which is, if the OP is correct, around the same as Jaedongs'. So the APM card is out.
And with what evidence is everyone basing their claims that by.hero has a chance against Jaedong? He played 3 lifetime televised ZvZ's, and the two recent ones were losses. I don't see how you can get an accurate representation of his ZvZ skill with those games. But Jaedong's lifetime 80% ZvZ winrate says a lot.
Besides, when has 'BO poker' ever stopped Jaedong?
Upsets maybe but this is a BO5 and a ZvZ, so I can't see Jaedong losing this with more than 20% probability. As stated before in this thread, just because his multitasking advantage is - in theory - neutralized doesn't mean he's at a loss from it, or that he can't boast other decisive ones. Also the guy just has that fire in him (I'm scared for life after that game vs FBH). Surely by.Hero has youth on his side, but seriously man, Lee "All Kill" Jaedong taking it in 4.
On March 27 2009 08:11 MyLovelyLurker wrote: Upsets maybe but this is a BO5 and a ZvZ, so I can't see Jaedong losing this with more than 20% probability. As stated before in this thread, just because his multitasking advantage is - in theory - neutralized doesn't mean he's at a loss from it, or that he can't boast other decisive ones. Also the guy just has that fire in him (I'm scared for life after that game vs FBH). Surely by.Hero has youth on his side, but seriously man, Lee "All Kill" Jaedong taking it in 4.
On March 27 2009 02:26 Heimatloser wrote: seeing by.heros raise since his practice with July i also think there is a chance that he could win this. maybe the inventor of muta-stacking whispers him some new zvz ideas which cannot fail;-) + Show Spoiler +
yeah well but honestly i think this will be 0<3 Jaedong, my bet on him
technically, the inventor of muta-stacking is Shark
He stacked the mutas on minerals , July was the first to use an overlord or a larve to stack the mutas at least thats what i've heard .
pretty sure it was the broodling twins (Lux/Yarnc) that first used the magic box to stack mutas. July also used the mineral stacking for the longest time and was just really famous for it and really good at it. i wonder what people's reactions were to seeing the magic box trick for the first time.
July was the first person to use the muta stack using an Overlord in a televised game vs. Hwasin. It garnered a pretty epic reaction, since it was a huge revolution in ZvT.
And regardless of who actually discovered the stacking trick first, July invented modern mutalisk micro, and that's that.
On March 27 2009 00:18 vAltyR wrote: Man, who'd have thought Fantasy would beat Bisu? Frankly, I was shocked when I found out about that. IMO, he deserves the OSL title just for that.
Also, yeah by.hero is fast, but theres NO WAY he will beat jeadong. He's lifetime 1-2 on TV, STX isn't known for good ZvZers, and only 3 players have ever beaten jaedong more than once (and that was luxury, july and savior, only beating him twice, and he hasn't to to any of them since 2007).
ONLY 3 players have ever beaten Jaedong multiple times, none more than twice. But this does not truly capture JD's ZvZ domination. Almost 80% win rate, wow: July 2-2 Savior 2-2 Luxury 2-7
So actually, NO zerg has a winning record against JD! (Two are at 50%...)
JD will take this. 3-0.
I think Oversky is also 2-2 against Jaedong even though one game isn't in TLPD for some reason. Didn't Oversky win a game against Jaedong on Katrina (or Katrina SE) with a 5 pool sunken rush?
But what is clear after this series is that he is not what he was last month. MSL titles will never fill the void of an OSL title, in that way Stork has been the better player than Bisu overall in the past year. Better luck next season Bisu.
On March 27 2009 02:26 Heimatloser wrote: seeing by.heros raise since his practice with July i also think there is a chance that he could win this. maybe the inventor of muta-stacking whispers him some new zvz ideas which cannot fail;-) + Show Spoiler +
yeah well but honestly i think this will be 0<3 Jaedong, my bet on him
technically, the inventor of muta-stacking is Shark
He stacked the mutas on minerals , July was the first to use an overlord or a larve to stack the mutas at least thats what i've heard .
pretty sure it was the broodling twins (Lux/Yarnc) that first used the magic box to stack mutas. July also used the mineral stacking for the longest time and was just really famous for it and really good at it. i wonder what people's reactions were to seeing the magic box trick for the first time.
July was the first person to use the muta stack using an Overlord in a televised game vs. Hwasin. It garnered a pretty epic reaction, since it was a huge revolution in ZvT.
And regardless of who actually discovered the stacking trick first, July invented modern mutalisk micro, and that's that.
This is sad Luxury or Shark is rumored to have invented he grouping mutas with an overlord/larvae trick. July's game against Hwasin did not use that trick (FPview says so). Mutalisk micro began with July (basically), and was developed to perfection today through practice, refinement and tricks
EPT
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Luxury or Shark is rumored to have invented he grouping mutas with an overlord/larvae trick. July's game against Hwasin did not use that trick (FPview says so). Mutalisk micro began with July (basically), and was developed to perfection today through practice, refinement and tricks
