• Log InLog In
  • Register
Liquid`
Team Liquid Liquipedia
EDT 07:29
CEST 13:29
KST 20:29
  • Home
  • Forum
  • Calendar
  • Streams
  • Liquipedia
  • Features
  • Store
  • EPT
  • TL+
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Smash
  • Heroes
  • Counter-Strike
  • Overwatch
  • Liquibet
  • Fantasy StarCraft
  • TLPD
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Blogs
Forum Sidebar
Events/Features
News
Featured News
[ASL22] Ro24 Preview: Siren's Call8[ASL22] Ro24 Preview: Summer's End9Serral wins HomeStory Cup 2915Serral wins Maestros of the Game 244ByuL, and the Limitations of Standard Play3
Community News
Official StarCraft website teases new content ahead of BlizzCon?30Stellar Fest TWO the Moon (Dec 16-20)8Weekly Cups (August 24-30): Patches' balance mod takes over3New 3v3 BGH Ladder (and more) on ShieldBattery!40Weekly Cups (August 17-23): Zerg dominate the week6
StarCraft 2
General
Weekly Cups (August 24-30): Patches' balance mod takes over SC4ALL: II Winner Will Earn a Spot at HSC 30! Nexon wins bid to develop StarCraft IP content, distribute Overwatch mobile game Balance hotfix patch 5.0.16b (July 16) September World Ranking: herO leads, Serral climbs
Tourneys
IntoTheTV X SOOP SC2 League : Weekly & Monthly SC2 INu's Battles#20 [BO.9] 2026 GSTL Announcement Stellar Fest TWO the Moon (Dec 16-20) PIG STY FESTIVAL 8.0! (13 - 23 August)
Strategy
[G] Having the right mentality to improve
Custom Maps
Nexus Wars 2021 GUIDE [M] (2) Industrial Park
External Content
Mutation # 541 Binary Choice The PondCast: SC2 News & Results Mutation # 540 Dodge This Mutation # 539 Thunder Dome
Brood War
General
Official StarCraft website teases new content ahead of BlizzCon? ASL22 General Discussion [Personal Project Share] Terran Defense v0.60 BW General Discussion BGH Auto Balance -> http://bghmmr.eu/
Tourneys
KCM Race Survival 2026 Season 3 Brood War in Budapest ! WORTEX 2026 BW Finals [Megathread] Daily Proleagues BSL LAN Party - Kraków 29-30 August - OPEN SIGNUPS
Strategy
Replay Review Process - What do you do? Game Theory for Starcraft Odyssey Mineral Stack Saturation Fighting Spirit mining rates
Other Games
General Games
Nintendo Switch Thread Diablo IV EVE Corporation [Maplestory Hardcore] Let's Play~!! General RTS Discussion Thread
Dota 2
Official 'what is Dota anymore' discussion
League of Legends
[TL LoL EUW IHs] Teemo shall perish TSM pausing esports and CLG Dead
Heroes of the Storm
Heroes of the Storm 2.0
Hearthstone
Deck construction bug
TL Mafia
TL Mafia Power Rank TL Mafia Community Thread NeO.D_StephenKing vs This Guy From 1 Million Dance
Community
General
Things Aren’t Peaceful in Palestine US Politics Mega-thread Canadian Politics Mega-thread Artificial Intelligence Thread UK Politics Mega-thread
Fan Clubs
MarineLorD Fan Club The Creator Fan Club The ShoWTimE Fan Club
Media & Entertainment
Movie Discussion! Anime Discussion Thread
Sports
Football (Soccer) Thread TeamLiquid Health and Fitness Initiative For 2023 MLB/Baseball 2023 NBA General Discussion
World Cup 2022
Tech Support
Computer Build, Upgrade & Buying Resource Thread
TL Community
The Automated Ban List Northern Ireland Global Starcraft
Blogs
Dreaming of BW patches (mod…
c3rberUs
Regacy Esports: The Bh…
regacyesports
Violent Games and Crime Rate…
TrAiDoS
LOCKPICKING NOOB
LUCKY_NOOB
Cathedral Of CS And NY pizza a…
FuDDx
Customize Sidebar...

Website Feedback

Closed Threads



Active: 7019 users

[PL] Bottom of the Barrel - Page 2

Forum Index > News
78 CommentsPost a Reply
Prev 1 2 3 4 Next All
Heyoka
Profile Blog Joined March 2008
Katowice25012 Posts
November 06 2009 19:29 GMT
#21
On November 06 2009 22:36 jtype wrote:
Regarding Ruby building 500 starports - I can't believe I didn't see the relevance to him being on ACE, lol. I'm suprised I even remember my name sometimes..


More importantly, when was the last time an ACE member got to do an in-game ceremony against a well known proleague regular? Every part of it is great.
@RealHeyoka | ESL / DreamHack StarCraft Lead
Ota Solgryn
Profile Blog Joined January 2008
Denmark2011 Posts
November 06 2009 19:52 GMT
#22
Absolutely insane writeup. Love these articles.

And why oh why didnt I see the interview where Oz coach said JD would not be sent for ace. Would be top 50 with flash instead of JD.

ihasaKAROT: "Wish people would stop wasting their lives on finding flaws in others"
MrHickoryHam54
Profile Joined January 2009
United States208 Posts
November 06 2009 20:34 GMT
#23
with all due respect to coach Cho of Oz, HE NEEDS TO GO JUMP OFF A CLIFF!!!

when the hell will he realize that no one on his team has ANY chance of beating ppl like flash or bisu EXCEPT JD!!!!

no matter what idiot sc fans try to say about lomo or killer, THEY ARE BAD!!!

last yr, they put jd for like, every match, and look where it got them: SILVER MEDAL

hey, when something is working, PLEASE CONSIDER STICKING TO IT!!!
2009-10 Proleague MVP: Doctor.K_PsP
Japakazol
Profile Blog Joined May 2009
United States102 Posts
Last Edited: 2009-11-06 20:48:08
November 06 2009 20:47 GMT
#24
BeSt vs Flash on Fighting Spirit

The two best macro players on earth, playing in their best matchups


Flash's TvP is terrifying, and my vote for the best in the world. But do you really think it's his best? Note that he sports a staggering 71% TvT. And his TvZ has recently exceeded his TvP percentage-wise as well, making TvP statistically his worst matchup.
We feel your presence. u gotta skate
]343[
Profile Blog Joined May 2008
United States10328 Posts
November 06 2009 21:13 GMT
#25
nice. however, should it be "peace of mind" instead of "piece of mind"? (lol all those puns were lulzy)
Writer
Iplaythings
Profile Blog Joined August 2009
Denmark9110 Posts
November 06 2009 21:24 GMT
#26
On November 07 2009 05:47 Japakazol wrote:
Show nested quote +
BeSt vs Flash on Fighting Spirit

The two best macro players on earth, playing in their best matchups


Flash's TvP is terrifying, and my vote for the best in the world. But do you really think it's his best? Note that he sports a staggering 71% TvT. And his TvZ has recently exceeded his TvP percentage-wise as well, making TvP statistically his worst matchup.

Flash became known for his really strong TvP. Though hs TvT is certainly strongest his TvZ / TvP is equally strong imo. (We dont know cus he neither played Jaedong / Effort / Calm or Bisu / Stork lately)
In the woods, there lurks..
Heyoka
Profile Blog Joined March 2008
Katowice25012 Posts
November 06 2009 21:56 GMT
#27
While all of Flash's matchups are terrifying right now, I think its fair to refer to his TvP as his best in this kind of context. It is not only the matchup he became known for, he singlehandedly made the TvP statistic on Medusa last season look way more balanced than it "actually" was (going a combined 11-1 on both, during a time when no terran was winning TvPs).

His TvP remains masterful even during times of protoss dominance and during times when he is playing 'below his best' overall.
@RealHeyoka | ESL / DreamHack StarCraft Lead
seppolevne
Profile Blog Joined February 2009
Canada1681 Posts
November 06 2009 22:49 GMT
#28
Really great writeup, matches to look forward to is really nice. Interview with the PUNisher was funny as hell, thanks ^^
J- Pirate Udyr WW T- Pirate Riven Galio M- Galio Annie S- Sona Lux -- Always farm, never carry.
ccou
Profile Joined December 2008
United States681 Posts
November 06 2009 22:55 GMT
#29
On November 07 2009 05:34 MrHickoryHam54 wrote:
with all due respect to coach Cho of Oz, HE NEEDS TO GO JUMP OFF A CLIFF!!!

when the hell will he realize that no one on his team has ANY chance of beating ppl like flash or bisu EXCEPT JD!!!!

no matter what idiot sc fans try to say about lomo or killer, THEY ARE BAD!!!

last yr, they put jd for like, every match, and look where it got them: SILVER MEDAL

hey, when something is working, PLEASE CONSIDER STICKING TO IT!!!


I get the feeling that it's a part of an unspoken deal betweeen Oz Cho and Jaedong's parents in order to keep Jaedong playing. Jaedong's parents legally makes the contract decisions and were really unhappy about Jaedong's stress.
Wake up Mr. B!
DoctorHelvetica
Profile Blog Joined July 2008
United States15034 Posts
November 06 2009 23:40 GMT
#30
On November 07 2009 05:47 Japakazol wrote:
Show nested quote +
BeSt vs Flash on Fighting Spirit

The two best macro players on earth, playing in their best matchups


Flash's TvP is terrifying, and my vote for the best in the world. But do you really think it's his best? Note that he sports a staggering 71% TvT. And his TvZ has recently exceeded his TvP percentage-wise as well, making TvP statistically his worst matchup.


He'll always be known for his revolution of TvP, statistics aside, FlaSh is to TvP what Bisu is to PvZ.
RIP Aaliyah
meegrean
Profile Joined May 2008
Thailand7699 Posts
November 07 2009 01:34 GMT
#31
Killer is gonna get killed.
Brood War loyalist
Avidkeystamper
Profile Blog Joined June 2008
United States8556 Posts
November 07 2009 02:21 GMT
#32
On November 07 2009 08:40 DoctorHelvetica wrote:
Show nested quote +
On November 07 2009 05:47 Japakazol wrote:
BeSt vs Flash on Fighting Spirit

The two best macro players on earth, playing in their best matchups


Flash's TvP is terrifying, and my vote for the best in the world. But do you really think it's his best? Note that he sports a staggering 71% TvT. And his TvZ has recently exceeded his TvP percentage-wise as well, making TvP statistically his worst matchup.


He'll always be known for his revolution of TvP, statistics aside, FlaSh is to TvP what Bisu is to PvZ.

Is it to the same degree, though? I really don't know, if you could show me, that'd be great.
Jaedong
Japakazol
Profile Blog Joined May 2009
United States102 Posts
Last Edited: 2009-11-07 02:33:55
November 07 2009 02:33 GMT
#33
On November 07 2009 11:21 Avidkeystamper wrote:
Show nested quote +
On November 07 2009 08:40 DoctorHelvetica wrote:
On November 07 2009 05:47 Japakazol wrote:
BeSt vs Flash on Fighting Spirit

The two best macro players on earth, playing in their best matchups


Flash's TvP is terrifying, and my vote for the best in the world. But do you really think it's his best? Note that he sports a staggering 71% TvT. And his TvZ has recently exceeded his TvP percentage-wise as well, making TvP statistically his worst matchup.


He'll always be known for his revolution of TvP, statistics aside, FlaSh is to TvP what Bisu is to PvZ.

Is it to the same degree, though? I really don't know, if you could show me, that'd be great.



It's definitely not, imo. Flash made a somewhat minor innovation to TvP by getting a really fast armory; his TvP prowess stems mostly from flawless mechanics and macro than from some kind of strategic revolution. Bisu is a mechanical fiend as well, but his contribution to the matchup dynamic was far more profound. Lesser players can copy the "Bisu build" with a somewhat high degree of fidelity, whereas copying the "flash build" really amounts to "getting really good at everything."
We feel your presence. u gotta skate
TwoToneTerran
Profile Joined March 2009
United States8841 Posts
Last Edited: 2009-11-07 02:50:27
November 07 2009 02:49 GMT
#34
Flash almost completely obsoleted a unit that had been used consistently -- for years -- and was thought to be the CAUSE of the PvT imbalance in the lategame. You're absolutely insane if you don't think Flash's build is comparable to Bisu's build in match up changing terms. There's a reason 90% of the time you only see Arbiters instead of carriers lategame, now.
Remember Violet.
SwEEt[TearS]
Profile Blog Joined January 2009
Canada1575 Posts
November 07 2009 02:56 GMT
#35
great read ^^

I'm hoping for a gg between savior and pusan
#1 arb fan -- Raelcun is Nuclear backwards. Rekrul is Lurker backwards. Grobyc is Cyborg backwards. Eniram is Marine backwards.
cunninglinguists
Profile Blog Joined November 2008
United States925 Posts
November 07 2009 02:56 GMT
#36
oh my god the punisher's interview is absolutely amazing
Kenpachi
Profile Blog Joined August 2009
United States9908 Posts
November 07 2009 03:00 GMT
#37
This never disappoints
Nada's body is South Korea's greatest weapon.
TheYango
Profile Joined September 2008
United States47024 Posts
November 07 2009 03:07 GMT
#38
On November 07 2009 00:53 MrHickoryHam54 wrote:
but u cant rely on stork to carry the team. hes not jaedong....

Yeah. You can't rely on Stork to be Jaedong when Jaedong's "not Jaedong" either.
Moderator
Triple7
Profile Joined April 2009
United States656 Posts
November 07 2009 03:19 GMT
#39
Nooo! SKT vs KT is Monday morning for me
지지이이이이이이이이이이이
Japakazol
Profile Blog Joined May 2009
United States102 Posts
November 07 2009 03:29 GMT
#40
On November 07 2009 11:49 TwoToneTerran wrote:
Flash almost completely obsoleted a unit that had been used consistently -- for years -- and was thought to be the CAUSE of the PvT imbalance in the lategame. You're absolutely insane if you don't think Flash's build is comparable to Bisu's build in match up changing terms. There's a reason 90% of the time you only see Arbiters instead of carriers lategame, now.


http://www.teamliquid.net/tlpd/games/12150_Flash_vs_JangBi/vod

Case closed, sir. Flash didn't obsolete shit. There is a reason that arbiters are used more often now, and that reason is that arbiters kick ass up and down the block without requiring a period of vulnerability as you tech switch, not because flash made carriers useless.
We feel your presence. u gotta skate
Prev 1 2 3 4 Next All
Please log in or register to reply.
Live Events Refresh
IntoTheTV X SOOP
11:00
ISSL Weekly #3
IntoTheiNu 439
WardiTV208
CranKy Ducklings35
LiquipediaDiscussion
[ Submit Event ]
Live Streams
Refresh
StarCraft 2
Rex 48
Rogue 14
ByuN (SOOP) 6
StarCraft: Brood War
Calm 18856
Britney 15920
Jaedong 2447
Bisu 1874
Horang2 1811
Hyuk 559
Pusan 444
firebathero 273
Stork 160
Light 147
[ Show more ]
Rush 107
ZerO 101
Mong 55
Free 40
Barracks 37
910 25
Sea.KH 23
Icarus 16
HiyA 15
Sharp 13
scan(afreeca) 12
sorry 12
Noble 5
ajuk12(nOOB) 3
Counter-Strike
olofmeister1647
shoxiejesuss924
markeloff88
edward65
Other Games
gofns11963
singsing2006
Coldzera 818
crisheroes366
XaKoH 237
Lowko221
Livibee156
Pyrionflax131
Sick120
Mew2King86
ZerO(Twitch)12
Organizations
StarCraft: Brood War
UltimateBattle 19
[ Show 13 non-featured ]
StarCraft 2
• StrangeGG 17
• CranKy Ducklings SOOP8
• AfreecaTV YouTube
• intothetv
• Kozan
• IndyKCrew
• Migwel
StarCraft: Brood War
• iopq 13
• BSLYoutube
• STPLYoutube
• ZZZeroYoutube
Dota 2
• C_a_k_e 2806
League of Legends
• Jankos1602
Upcoming Events
CranKy Ducklings
22h 31m
Big Brain Bouts
22h 31m
Garitos vs ArT
Lambo vs Percival
TriGGeR vs ByuN
Sparkling Tuna Cup
1d 22h
OSC
2 days
Shopify Rebellion Sundays
2 days
Mixu vs TBD
Spirit vs TBD
Clem vs TBD
Patches Events
2 days
Afreeca Starleague
2 days
Soma vs Shuttle
BeSt vs Rush
WardiTV Weekly
2 days
Afreeca Starleague
3 days
Leta vs ggaemo
Jaedong vs Queen
GSL
3 days
[ Show More ]
PiGosaur Cup
4 days
Kung Fu Cup
4 days
Replay Cast
5 days
The PondCast
5 days
KCM Race Survival
5 days
Escore
6 days
IntoTheTV X SOOP
6 days
Liquipedia Results

Completed

Proleague 2026-09-02
PiG Sty Festival 8.0
Light Tournament 2026

Ongoing

KCM Race Survival 2026 Season 3
K-JUNGMAN
ASL Season 22
Super Anchor Qualifying S3
CSL 2026 AUTUMN (S22)
RSL Revival: Season 6
Calamity Invitational
Big Dog Cup 2026 Div 1
BLAST Open Fall 2026
Esports World Cup 2026
Esports World Cup 2026: LCQ
BLAST Bounty Summer 2026
BLAST Bounty Summer Qual
Stake Ranked Episode 3
XSE Pro League 2026

Upcoming

Acropolis #5
Acropolis #5 - TRS
Escore Tournament S3: King of Kings
Blizzard Classic Cup 2026
Acropolis #5 - GSA
Acropolis #5 - GSB
Acropolis #5 - GSC
HSC XXX
Stellar Fest 2: Lunar Cup
SC4ALL II: StarCraft II
Kung Fu Cup 2026 Grand Finals
RSL Offline Finals
BLAST Rivals Fall 2026
IEM Beijing 2026
Stake Ranked Episode 5
PGL Masters Bucharest 2026
1win Private Club #2
Thunderpick World Champ. '26
ESL Pro League Season 24
Stake Ranked Episode 4
1win Private Club #1
Logitech G Play Connect 2026
SL StarSeries Fall 2026
FISSURE Playground #3
TLPD

1. ByuN
2. TY
3. Dark
4. Solar
5. Stats
6. Nerchio
7. sOs
8. soO
9. INnoVation
10. Elazer
1. Rain
2. Flash
3. EffOrt
4. Last
5. Bisu
6. Soulkey
7. Mini
8. Sharp
Sidebar Settings...

Advertising | Privacy Policy | Terms Of Use | Contact Us

Original banner artwork: Jim Warren
The contents of this webpage are copyright © 2026 TLnet. All Rights Reserved.