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On March 18 2008 18:32 xDark.Carnivalx wrote:Show nested quote +On March 18 2008 18:27 Evilmonkey. wrote:
I was tickled when I saw that I had two pms, one being from Randombum. If he took the time to present his case to everyone, then he has the time to be a good mayor. He looks to have my vote. the problem with that is it was rather inefficient to send pms like that to everyone, and it wasn't a personal request; the time it took to send out the same pm to everyone seems to be the main reason people are even considering to vote for him, and that is a rather silly way to vote for the mayor. it would have been much simpler had he just announced his running for mayor in the thread, which points to him not being the best person for mayor. it's not only about who might be mafia, it's about who is best for the job.
Great points here.
Also I'm not going to vote for Araav because he made a script. And his points for running for Mayor were not good enough in my eyes.
Just as an aide to future voters and other games when it comes to Mayor voting, here is my strategy:
You have no idea who is guilty or innocent Day 1. Even with the clues, it's all speculation unless we find a 100% concrete link.
With this rule in mind whether or not someone is Mafia or Innocent can't be the crux of your decision. Base it off of who seems intelligent,logical and active enough to help the Town survive. Anyone with a plan is better than someone without one even if their plan sucks - that way we have somewhere to start off debating which as I've stated numerous times is critical.
Voting for someone based on logic is our best defense. Even with a Mafia Mayor, we all know how to discern when someone is acting irrationally aka against the best interest of the Town. With this in mind we can easily trap a Mafia Mayor, and even force them to do work that benefits the Town asap like The Bodyguard linking strat I posted earlier.
Even better is that this kind of plan works with the Pardoner also 
As of now I'm voting for Ghar to be Mayor, and if that fails I hope he becomes Pardoner.
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ugh ok you people are really either acting slightly on drugs or something.
HOW does Araav knowing programming languages benefit us?
Seriously ask yourself that.
I know C/C++, Java, and Assembly but that really won't help me find Mafia members now will it?
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WHOA WAIT WAIT WAIT HAS NO ONE READ MY POSTS!?
You guys are starting to use a lot of faulty logic!
I'm going to get to all of it later with a large post, but for now Araav I can't believe you would say that Ghar doesn't have a convincing plan when NO ONE else even has a plan. And you want to be Mayor? Sorry, but that post actually gave me very good reason not to vote for you.
"Lynch me to find out" does not mean he doesn't care about the Town - you are reaching really far into nothing with that statement.
Ghar is the only person so far that has a solid plan and I've used plans similar to it in other games - it works.
Empryean has no business being Mayor or Pardoner. That move shows incredibly bad strategic thinking for a Townie and would be of no use to us. Otherwise he is possibly a Mafia in disguise trying to force the town's hand - either way he doesn't belong in either role.
As for you people asking about the DT plan:
If more than 4 people PM Ghar about being DT thats GREAT for the Town. Because now we'd have a suspect list and people caught false role claiming meaning we certainly have some Mafia cornered.
Also remember if we DO lose some DT roles somehow - we have Jacks. These players can be backup DTs if need be, so don't think we'd be dead asap because we lost 1 or 2 detectives somehow.
I've said it before the Town needs focus, and Ghar's plan is a good place to start for this theme to work.
Also, I am running for Mayor. I said it before but don't think I made it obvious.
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On March 18 2008 23:12 araav wrote:Show nested quote +On March 18 2008 23:03 Ghar wrote:How would you know they are actually DTs though, could just as easily be mafia saying "hay, I checked you out, you're legit, and I'm a DT". Given that would mean more than four people would message you, but you still wouldn't know who is lying. Not to mention of not all DTs are active, or follow the plan. There are a few things I would ask them to do before I'd be satisfied they're legit. I won't disclose that at the moment in case mafia make a counter strategy. let's analyze a bit.
In case you happen to be a mafia and a detective finds it out, mafia sacrifies a simple member to a town's ability to have extra mafia lynches. sounds very appealing from mafia's perspective.
so this is NOT a good, convincing plan. And you still did nothing for me not to suspect you. It's better than having a mafia mayor leading people to death. What I'm aiming for though is the best case scenario to set up a network of people with roles, that gives the best chance at winning. I'm not trying to convince you, I said already, all claims of not being mafia are moot. I'm providing a strategy to victory, because that's more feasible than trying to clear a name that can't be cleared at the moment you so-called strategy is simply too superficial and could easily move to a Mayor lose for the town. At this stage of the game, it is best to vote for people who seem towny - i.e. DO not seem suspicious AT ALL: no clue-interpretations about them, no stupid moves (like Empy did)
What the hell? You can NOT be serious with this post?
This post is further showing me NOT to vote for you as Mayor. Come on, how can anyone not see this post says exactly why you shouldn't be in a Mayor or Pardoner role?
You're accusing the guy off of 1 Day of clues when NO ONE can clear his or her name right now, and NO ONE can be convicted at all because there isn't enough evidence and no DT can do anything.
You're jumping too far to conclusions way too fast with little evidence, that is BAD.
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On March 18 2008 23:45 Hittegods wrote:Show nested quote +On March 18 2008 23:26 Ace wrote:
WHOA WAIT WAIT WAIT HAS NO ONE READ MY POSTS!?
If more than 4 people PM Ghar about being DT thats GREAT for the Town. Because now we'd have a suspect list and people caught false role claiming meaning we certainly have some Mafia cornered. Wouldn't that mean outing the four real DTs though? For the price of one mafia member they could possibly get a list of all DTs? Unless the mayor plans on doing all the investigation himself, which could work I guess. Also, even if Empyrean did a bad move and outed himself, wouldn't an incompetent DT be better for the town, than a dead one?
this is from a past post I made about outting the real DTs:
In scenario 2, The Mayor immediately role claims for all 6.
Essentially, he says 6 people reported and only 4 can be DTS, and puts ALL the names into public. Now the Town has 2 sure fire Mafia, the Medics can easily see who they should think about saving, and the Mafia is fucked because if they don't kill any of the real DTs at night they live to investigate another night. If they DO kill any of the DTs, then that just tightens the noose on the other 2 Mafia posing DTs.
It's part of a role claiming strategy. Take all that info, and now add the medics. With 4 DTs or possibly more, the Town has 2 major advantages:
1.) Some people are clearly lying
2.) The medics have a list of people that need protecting
There is also another part to this strategy I'm going to post soon
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On March 19 2008 00:09 Amber[LighT] wrote:Show nested quote +On March 18 2008 23:26 Ace wrote:
If more than 4 people PM Ghar about being DT thats GREAT for the Town. Because now we'd have a suspect list and people caught false role claiming meaning we certainly have some Mafia cornered.
. Uhhhh no? You can't say that people who are faking the Detective spot are necessarily mafia. They can be townies as well. Don't forget it's the Mafia vs. The Townies & The Townies vs. The Townies.
Why would ANY Townie that isn't a moron claim the DT role?
Anyone faking DT has to be Mafia, because any Townie doing that after reading all these posts explaining the plan would realize they are hurting the Town by doing so.
also, this is not in any way Townies vs Townies. At all. More so it's the uninformed majority vs the informed minority, and one of the ways to get around that trend is to share info with those that we 100% know is innocent.
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The Bodyguard Plan
This is a strategy I've used in the past to win games, and it works very well if even a slight majority of the main players involved use it.
The base of this plan lends itself to the fact that no innocent Townie knows for sure who else is innocent or what roles they are. Also is the fact that the main disadvantage the Town has is lack of information, whereas our main advantage is numbers. Combining these two things is the Bodyguard Plan.
At the start of the game, the only non-Mafia/elected roles that any other player can possibly know for sure is a Bodyguard. The Mayor receives this info once elected into office. This plan is best with an innocent Mayor, but it also forces a Mafia Mayor to help the town in the event he/she is ever elected.
When the Mayor is elected, their first plan of action should be to PM all the Bodyguards each other's identities. This pus information into the hands of the Townies that is critical.
Assume there are 7 bodyguards. The Mayor PMs all of them the identity of the other 6. All of them then PM each other to
1: confirm they got a PM stating they are the bodyguard from the Mayor
2: make sure they ALL have the same list of Bodyguards
In the case of an Innocent Mayor doing this, we have 7 townies all on the same side off the jump and this will be a major help to the Town if they all know the roles of 6 other innocents asap.
In the case of a Mafia Mayor he could actually try and add a Mafia member to the list of Bodyguards or ignore a real Bodyguard - and this is where the true failsafe in the plan comes in.
Failsafe:
Remember, all Bodyguards SHOULD get that PM. If any of the Bodyguards don't get it then they should know something is clearly fishy and should investigate hastily.
The Mayor would be investigated from Day 1, so the Town will know for sure if he/she is innocent or not which will allow the Bodyguards to know they can or can't trust the Mayor. If the Mayor turns out dirty, the Bodyguards will clearly speak up asap. If the Mayor is legit, then that Bodyguard list is 100% legit and ensures we have a solid base to start from.
In summary the idea of this plan is self checking:
1.) The Bodyguards know they have to get a PM
2.) The Mayor knows they have to PM the Bodyguards the Bodyguard list
3.) The Bodyguards PM each other to check their lists
4.) The Mayor also knows that they will be investigated asap by a DT
If the Mayor tends to be Mafia and releases a corrupted list, then the BGs will speak up and name the people on the list. The DTs paying attention to this, investigate the names.
In the case of an innocent Mayor this 100% guarantees us safety, in the case of a Mafia Mayor it takes us at worst 2 days to clean up the mess. This is my plan of action to start the game off.
In the event the list is released publicly, the best part of this plan is that the spotlight is taken off of the Detectives and put on the Bodyguards. This allows the Detectives to stay quiet, and for the Medics to have a list of people they need to watch. Remember what I stated earlier - the Town's main disadvantage is that we lack information and this plan serves to rectify that while maximizing our main advantage - numbers.
Once the base has been formed (Mayors + Bodyguards) we can start generating a list of suspects together, and figuring out roles down the road. To succeed the Town needs a strong start, and this plan is one of such.
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If you have any questions about the plan post it PUBLICLY so we can discuss it.
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On March 19 2008 00:28 L wrote: Veteran looking to absorb hits? Jack? Etc.
But why would they PM that info to the Mayor? That would cause confusion that the Town doesn't need.
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On March 19 2008 00:28 qrs wrote:Show nested quote +On March 18 2008 18:50 Ace wrote:
ugh ok you people are really either acting slightly on drugs or something.
HOW does Araav knowing programming languages benefit us?
Seriously ask yourself that.
I know C/C++, Java, and Assembly but that really won't help me find Mafia members now will it? Well, keeping track of the profiles, etc. does benefit us, but more to the point, he bothered to do it. If he was Mafia, that would be a questionable move: who knows how long it would take for us to get the information together otherwise? Therefore I think that araav's using his programming skills to help the town is an indication that he is a towny.
Honestly look, if I was Mafia I'd also be going out of my way to do stuff to prove it benefits the Town. The point of the matter is you guys are basing your votes off something that has NOTHING to do with his skills at playing the game, it's just that he bothered to do it.
He hasn't even posted a plan of action, all he has done is code something and you guys are ready to vote for him. Sorry, I've played this game way too many times and while it doesn't paint araav as Innocent or Mafia, it surely makes me question his ability to lead the town when their are better candidates out there.
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On March 19 2008 00:34 Amber[LighT] wrote:Show nested quote +On March 19 2008 00:15 Ace wrote:On March 19 2008 00:09 Amber[LighT] wrote:On March 18 2008 23:26 Ace wrote:
If more than 4 people PM Ghar about being DT thats GREAT for the Town. Because now we'd have a suspect list and people caught false role claiming meaning we certainly have some Mafia cornered.
. Uhhhh no? You can't say that people who are faking the Detective spot are necessarily mafia. They can be townies as well. Don't forget it's the Mafia vs. The Townies & The Townies vs. The Townies. Why would ANY Townie that isn't a moron claim the DT role? Anyone faking DT has to be Mafia, because any Townie doing that after reading all these posts explaining the plan would realize they are hurting the Town by doing so. also, this is not in any way Townies vs Townies. At all. More so it's the uninformed majority vs the informed minority, and one of the ways to get around that trend is to share info with those that we 100% know is innocent. lol did you play last game?
I read it, and thats the exact situation I'm trying to avoid this time around.
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Vote count:
LastRomantic - aZnvaLiaNce(1)
SoMuchBetter - SoMuchBetter(1)
randombum - Dr.Dragoon,Alethios,G.s)Naruto,Sadir,fanatacist,Bockit,BWdero,Ninja4ever(8)
fusionsdf - Plexa,Zbir,Kau(3)
Plexa - ssj100,Seifu(2)
SonuvBob - LTT,Joxxor,wurm,Heros)Pink(4)
Ghar - falcynn,Ace,ahrara,Pangolin,GranDim,Mandalor,Amber[Light],rpf(8)
araav - meta,SonuvBob,RowdierBob,Klive5ive,xDark.Carnivalx,Naib,Neax,Energies,qrs(9)
Empyrean - Caller,Eti307,Showtime,MTF,BloodyCobbler,NatsuTerran,RtS)NightMare(7)
Ace- Ghar,Spoinka(2)
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whoops sorry, had this post waiting but didnt catch Nightmare's in time
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On March 19 2008 01:06 qrs wrote:Now, that sounds like a good plan. Let me go you one better (unless this is what you meant): after the bodyguards are confirmed, let the mayor release one of their names publically. If it's a lie, the other bodyguards can call it. Now we have a guaranteed towny and all the detectives, etc. can PM their roles to him. In turn, he can forward them to the other bodyguards, so that even if the Mafia kills him, there will still be townies who know the important roles and can co-ordinate. I'll consider switching my vote to you, but it doesn't matter that much. We can follow your plan whether or not you are the mayor.
Now you're seeing it the way I hoped everyone would.
And yes, whether or not I am Mayor I would hope this plan or something even better is followed!
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I don't understand why anyone would suspect Ghar.
Even worse, BWdero why are you suspecting him just because others are?
We barely have any clues, and he hasn't done anything through his posts that can target him as Mafia.
Please people, lets not get into the practice of bandwagon suspicion so early.
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Even if they pointed to him more than slightly, at least we know what his plan is and where his logic lies. If he ever started acting out of character or illogical, ie blatantly doing something that hinders the town we'd know for sure something is fishy about him.
With almost everyone else we have no idea what they are going to do. And when we have no idea what they can do or plan to do, they are less accountable and there is more room for "accidents" and "oops" moments.
At least with Ghar we've got a guy thats willing to explain his actions upfront, his plan, and even has ideas of what to do in case it does not work.
FAR better than what anyone else is offering right now.
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Well I'm not trying to be modest here lol.
Also, even though clues may point to a certain person as a Townie there are 2 things that should inspire your votes when lynching time arrives:
1.) Clues and discussions about them
2.) What people post and who they vote for, but more importantly what they DONT post
Number 2 is going to help you a lot more than #1 in the long run. I've already got a list of everyone who's posted in this thread, who they voted for, and comments about everyone's thinking patterns.
Once I start to see people act fishy, or incredibly stupid I'll check it against my info and see whats up and vote accordingly.
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Just as an exercise in discussion and thinking, what clue points to Ghar, and on a scale of 1-10 how would you rate it's relevance?
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Actually I'm hoping a lot of people will do it, because that way all of us get to see what kind of thinking patterns everyone else uses.
I posted the quote just so you guys know exactly where his quote comes from, not because I think he is Mafia at all. 8 people in his way, and 8 enemy divisions is a very far reach right now.
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Klive, honestly you are posting complete horse shit right now.
But I won't debate that right now - that only leads to confusion among the Town and takes away from what we need to do right now - vote for a Mayor.
Either way, you really have no solid arguments as to why Ghar shouldn't be Mayor.
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EPT
