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On February 25 2008 18:01 dinmsab wrote:
The situation right now is getting desperate, and i believe that desperate situation calls for desperate action. Honestly speaking, this just isnt looking good for the townies.. if things carry on like this we ARE going to lose. We outnumber the mafia by 3:1, but the diference in numbers do not mean anything considering how the mafia are organized, while we are not. Im proposing something radical.. I think it IS possible for the townies to actually be organized, not all of us.. but only a small number that matters the most in the game. This small group will only receive orders by a single person who we are sure is a townie, this single person will be the "head" of the group, only he knows the members of the group and is responsible to coordinate and organize each action of its members. So you might be asking, who are the members? how are we going to make sure they are not mafia? Well, this is where this list plays a role.
2 of 3 Vigilante alive.
1 of 2 Detective alive.
4 of 4 Paramedic alive.
2 of 4 Elder alive.
3 of 4 Veteran alive.
(i removed pardoner and bodyguards considering they COULD be mafia, correct me if im wrong)
Yes, this list the key. These are the only people who are going to make a difference in this game for the townies. Im suggesting that these people will submit their names and roles to the appointed "head". From there this leader will be able to systematically organize and use any information and
abilities gained from of its members.
So some of you might ask, what if there's undercover mafia claiming any one of these roles? Well, lets say that 5 people claim to be paramedics, we know that there are only 4 paramedics out there , that means that 1 of them is a fake a.k.a mafia. Keep in mind, only the "head" knows all the information, no information is passed among members of the group.. effectively rendering any infiltration useless. Keep in mind, in this scenario the head will know there is a mafia within the paramedic group.. thus is his responsibility to investigate and figure out who is the mafia. Obviously it isnt very smart for the mafia to go undercover in this group since it will only get their names shortlisted.
In order to select the "head", i believe it is wise to actually just to random on this.. the chances are still 1/3 that the person randomly selected is a townie, if not.. then we are screwed.. or we could just use a person that we all trust is a townie, which is definitely not wise since at this point, anyone could be mafia.
I dont see any other way for the townies to make it out of this... feedback needed ASAP. We need to act fast before the next night comes around.
People are still not clear about the rules and settings... why?... and you're not the only one.
Pardoner can be Mafia.
Bodyguards cannot.
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I did not save FakeSteve because I myself had found several strong points against him. Although he eventually relented my vote for him, I believed that there was a strong chance he was scum nonetheless- just that it was more worthwhile persuing other targets at the time.
I realised that no matter if I pardon'd him or not, some people would assume it to be a tell of mine. So I felt I was caught between two extremes. In such a position, I felt it wiser to stick to my word.
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what sucks though is that with 2 double lynches, he would be worthwhile alive, so who cares about what you said, if you are a townie, and a mafia vet as you say, you would know that having a mayor alive with double lynches up is worth it, rather than letting him be lynched.
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good luck guys. And no hard feelings about dropping the blame on me (though it wasn't much, this was my fault). =]
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Ok, so here are the people who ran for mayor.
Tracil
SoMuchBetter
FakeSteve
mahnini
infinity21
betaben
Mini Moose 2707
2 are currently still alive.
It makes sense that the mafia would try to get someone in a mayor or at least pardoner position, so I would say that either Infinity or Tracil are going to be mafia. Which one?
Well Tracil recieved 13 votes, Infinity recieved 1. Now if a mafia was running for mayor, then I would expect them to have a lot more than 1 vote.
Tracil also hasnt touched his ability to pardon people, but then, we've never gone after a mafia yet either so if he is mafia, he hasnt needed to.
Now if Tracil is mafia, he has 4 pardons left. That means if we correctly guess mafia for the next 4 nights, he can pardon them and save them and we will have made no progress at all. We would have NO chance of winning the game. Unless we can get some absolute proof that Tracil is a good guy, then we cannot take the risk of leaving him in such a powerful position.
Therefore Tracil is on top of my list and I Vote for Tracil to be Lynched
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+ Show Spoiler [long quote] +On February 25 2008 18:01 dinmsab wrote:
The situation right now is getting desperate, and i believe that desperate situation calls for desperate action. Honestly speaking, this just isnt looking good for the townies.. if things carry on like this we ARE going to lose. We outnumber the mafia by 3:1, but the diference in numbers do not mean anything considering how the mafia are organized, while we are not. Im proposing something radical.. I think it IS possible for the townies to actually be organized, not all of us.. but only a small number that matters the most in the game. This small group will only receive orders by a single person who we are sure is a townie, this single person will be the "head" of the group, only he knows the members of the group and is responsible to coordinate and organize each action of its members. So you might be asking, who are the members? how are we going to make sure they are not mafia? Well, this is where this list plays a role.
2 of 3 Vigilante alive.
1 of 2 Detective alive.
4 of 4 Paramedic alive.
2 of 4 Elder alive.
3 of 4 Veteran alive.
(i removed pardoner and bodyguards considering they COULD be mafia, correct me if im wrong)
Yes, this list the key. These are the only people who are going to make a difference in this game for the townies. Im suggesting that these people will submit their names and roles to the appointed "head". From there this leader will be able to systematically organize and use any information and
abilities gained from of its members.
So some of you might ask, what if there's undercover mafia claiming any one of these roles? Well, lets say that 5 people claim to be paramedics, we know that there are only 4 paramedics out there , that means that 1 of them is a fake a.k.a mafia. Keep in mind, only the "head" knows all the information, no information is passed among members of the group.. effectively rendering any infiltration useless. Keep in mind, in this scenario the head will know there is a mafia within the paramedic group.. thus is his responsibility to investigate and figure out who is the mafia. Obviously it isnt very smart for the mafia to go undercover in this group since it will only get their names shortlisted.
In order to select the "head", i believe it is wise to actually just to random on this.. the chances are still 1/3 that the person randomly selected is a townie, if not.. then we are screwed.. or we could just use a person that we all trust is a townie, which is definitely not wise since at this point, anyone could be mafia.
I dont see any other way for the townies to make it out of this... feedback needed ASAP. We need to act fast before the next night comes around.
I mean no offense, but that's a really stupid idea. Sure, it sounds good on the surface, but we have no way of reliably picking a head. You claim that it's possibile via random selection, but I disagree. You forget all of the inactives, and also, what if people are just plain lazy and don't want to deal with it? If you pick a mafia head, then town has no chance of winning, because they get a list of every special role dumb enough to admit to it.
That's not even taking into account people who lie about having special positions, either because they are mafia, or because they don't want to die.
Last, since you are apparently in the game, why haven't you read the game description in the original post? It's good form to konw what you're talking about. Bodyguards can't be mafia. Oh, and when you say what the chance that the person randomly selected is a townie, the chance is wrong.
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Ok then, disregard my last post.. lets all wait patiently to get screwed by the mafia. j/k.
To CDRdude, like i said... we are getting desperate, and the current situation is we dont have many leads on who is mafia, and who is not... and as much as my proposed idea sounds batshit insane, i feel its one of things we could do to win this game back instead of just waiting to die, nobody else seems to have a plan it seems. Basically its an all-in-strategy... with nothing to lose at this point. I dont think most of the townies are inactive, they're just too scared to post opinions and ideas on fearing mafia might target them, I was one of them.
btw, if your criticizing my idea on not having a solid method for picking a townie as head.. then tell me, what solid foundations are you on when voting for lynches? Right now its a 72% chance of picking a townie at random compared to 28% chance for picking a mafia at random. 72% is a large number.. think about it.
Btw, sorry for having wrong facts. I somehow got the idea that bodyguards were elected by the mayor.
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Uh.
Did you guys totally ignore my absolutely foolproof plan for locating a confirmed townie to tell all of this to? I'll go over it again- an Elder can confirm he has two votes by demonstrating his power to.. vote twice. We then ask for a votecount update from Chuiu, and hey, presto- we find out if he's lying or not.
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Well, tracil is right i guess..but i think it needs to be done in secret, we dont want mafia claiming to be elders..right?
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...they can't claim to be elders. It also can't be done in secret. Uh. Yeah.
Ah, hell, I'll put 2 and 2 together for everyone. Again. An elder can doublevote, which is not a power that scum can duplicate. Doublevotes are evident from the votecount. By *claiming ahead of time* what his votes are going to be and then backing them up, an elder can prove his legitimacy- his townhood.
We then know he can be trusted. He can then get everyone to PM him their roles and actions and conclusions and stuff, and can then perhaps arrange them to his liking. We'll know he's town, so we can trust him. He doesn't need to disclose his overall plan to each and every power role.
If he gets more power roles than he should, then he can use his discretion on who to call out in public.
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Surprisingly my "most likely mafia list" are still alive. Funny how that worked out.
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So once we get a hold of an elder, we probably would want all remaining paramedics available to protect him over the night... but is 4 paramedics enough? : ) Im unclear on this, can anyone explain?
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On February 25 2008 22:29 dinmsab wrote:
So once we get a hold of an elder, we probably would want all remaining paramedics available to protect him over the night... but is 4 paramedics enough? : ) Im unclear on this, can anyone explain?
Yes it is enough.
Unless 5 or more killing power is used on him, which means 10+ Mafias has targeted him
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id like to sign up for the next game, thanks
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On February 25 2008 22:01 Tracil wrote:
...they can't claim to be elders. It also can't be done in secret. Uh. Yeah.
Ah, hell, I'll put 2 and 2 together for everyone. Again. An elder can doublevote, which is not a power that scum can duplicate. Doublevotes are evident from the votecount. By *claiming ahead of time* what his votes are going to be and then backing them up, an elder can prove his legitimacy- his townhood.
We then know he can be trusted. He can then get everyone to PM him their roles and actions and conclusions and stuff, and can then perhaps arrange them to his liking. We'll know he's town, so we can trust him. He doesn't need to disclose his overall plan to each and every power role.
If he gets more power roles than he should, then he can use his discretion on who to call out in public.
I guess this was Steve'ss role but ugh. I'm an elder. I can use my vote to confirm it to you guys. everyone who has a special role can PM it to me. I'll do whatever you guys want to prove myself as one. No need for the other elder to come out (inactive maybe). Anyway, yeah.
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P.S1: Alventie, nice recap.
P.S2: WTF guys are you seriously voting for Tracil? he has the Pardoner power which means he can Pardon!. Are you stripping the town out of that possibility? if he is mafia he will obvioulsy pardon mafia, but right now I don't believe is the right move.
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On February 25 2008 22:24 NotSorry wrote:
Surprisingly my "most likely mafia list" are still alive. Funny how that worked out.
You're not alone. lol.
I just knew I was onto something, now i'm dead. Yay!
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[my bad]
anyways. blarg, im still dead.
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wurm, you're not allowed to say anything game-altering ~_~
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OK, wait a sec... now we have ourselves a possible candidate.. someone who claims to be an elder, before anyone does anything stupid.. DONT PM HIM YOUR ROLES JUST YET. . He needs to prove himself first, for all we know.. he might be mafia.
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EPT
