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On December 18 2023 23:53 sandroba wrote:Show nested quote +On December 18 2023 23:44 marvellosity wrote:
Sand, can you remind me why you like Trfel for town so much now please? 1 - he saved me d2 when thread sentiment was against me. He called out Chez behavior as mafia, pointed out the game they played as scum together. I went ahead and looked at the game and everything checked out. Also Trfel had very few posts as mafia in that game, wasn't engaged at all. The analysis posts he is making make a lot of sense to me, it shows he is thinking about the game. His palmar town read, if he is mafia it must be with palmar? Not sure how voting HF instead of Palmar and sticking with his town read helps him here. HF was on a path of Palmar > DMB > rayn while Palmar's path includes him? Can't wrap my head around why he would not just go along and lynch me d2, he had every excuse as mafia to do so. He had the story set up from his perspective for finding me suspicious.
this is a suspect post. alot of suspect.
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On December 18 2023 23:55 sandroba wrote:Show nested quote +On December 18 2023 23:51 marvellosity wrote:
DMB, as you like a bit of meta and reading old games.
Can you find a single example where sandro has a decent size filter and fights for his life when he is about to be lynched as mafia? I think the most telling thing is that I would never try to take myself to end game as mafia while lynching the role blocker Chezinu on my team. Chezinu could single-handedly win a game for mafia
and i would?
you are literally telling i am mafia (or even could be) when doing something you would never do yourself as mafia, and use it against me???
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On December 18 2023 13:01 sandroba wrote:Show nested quote +On December 18 2023 12:01 Grackaroni wrote:
Day Three Vote Count
Holyflare (4): marvellosity, Palmar, Alakaslam, raynpelikoneet, Trfel
Palmar (2): sandroba, Holyflare, die_meatbaby, Alakaslam
die_meatbaby (2): Trfel, sandroba, Holyflare
With 4 votes, Holyflare has been lynched!
There is at least one townie in here, but he is probably confused about his role pm.
Oh oh oh... I forgot.
After this Trfel went to "reread his role PM, just to confirm"
That is a pile of shit. Noone needes to reread their role PM after the start of the game.'
Pile Of Shit !!!
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I guess it' snot a good case coming like this, but it is true!
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On December 18 2023 13:02 Trfel wrote:Show nested quote +On December 18 2023 13:01 sandroba wrote:On December 18 2023 12:01 Grackaroni wrote:
Day Three Vote Count
Holyflare (4): marvellosity, Palmar, Alakaslam, raynpelikoneet, Trfel
Palmar (2): sandroba, Holyflare, die_meatbaby, Alakaslam
die_meatbaby (2): Trfel, sandroba, Holyflare
With 4 votes, Holyflare has been lynched!
There is at least one townie in here, but he is probably confused about his role pm. Checked my role PM again, wouldn't have been that surprised if I misread it and am actually mafia but sadly I am not.
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Well good game i guess 
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I tried to quote but no, it's not gonna happen.
Just read marv's filter for the last pages.
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I try everything i can to get you to vote for Trfel.
If it is not enough then it is not.
Hopefully you are right and i am not. I don't think that's the case for any townie atm.
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On December 21 2023 06:55 Trfel wrote:Show nested quote +On December 20 2023 18:25 Palmar wrote:
Does that matter Trfel? We're lynching your scumread. It matters eventually. Show nested quote +On December 20 2023 22:56 raynpelikoneet wrote:I think Trfel is just mafia here. - Trfel has been very wishy-washy on his reads during the whole game. I know town!Trfel is wishy-wasy, i just think he is overplaying it here. Basically every read until last night ends up being "could be or is not mafia" category. Basically Trfel has called everyone mafia except for Palmar. Only after marv starts getting suspicious of him and his town read on Palmar he starts getting these hard stances on people. I understand the less people we have the less room there is also for error, but it just doesn't seem natural at all to me. - Trfel calls DMB mafia for scumreading Palmar, but not doing anything with the read. Now this makes sense if the mafia team is exactly DMB and Palmar, but Trfel doesn't think this is the case because he townreads and has townread Palmar all game (except for one point where he thinks Palmar + marv could be mafia). This sort of behavior should only be suspicious for DMB if Palmar is mafia in his mind, because otherwise it doesn't make any sense to act like that, Palmar has been suspected by everyone pretty much during the whole game. - I still don't know understand this: On December 19 2023 12:12 Trfel wrote:
I think Palmar is probably my strongest townread, with sandroba not too far behind (I don't see how Palmar could be mafia unless he is mafia with marvellosity). Will have a lot of reevaluating to do. I still think die_meatbaby is mafia and don't really understand why people disagree. I need to catch up on the last 10 pages but I'll be here on-and-off for a while. Basically everything Trfel writes, even his case on DMB, should be in towards Palmar being mafia, yet Palmar is his strongest town read. So i am going to guess he thinks i am mafia or Slam is mafia. But he already said he doesn't think i am mafia. Does Slam being mafia make sense to anyone else? Based on Trfel's reads, how is he going to put up a mafia team of two people here? At least he hasn't contributed towards that in any sense, just that DMB is mafia. On December 21 2023 02:01 raynpelikoneet wrote:On December 21 2023 01:39 sandroba wrote:On December 21 2023 01:32 raynpelikoneet wrote:On December 21 2023 01:26 sandroba wrote:On December 21 2023 01:21 raynpelikoneet wrote:On December 21 2023 01:20 sandroba wrote:
Well, you are being super biased if you can't even consider it and are dead set on this explanation for it I can't even understand. I am not super set on this explanation, but i don't really see a good case on why i am supposed to think she is mafia. I think Trfel's case spells it out pretty clearly why. The fact that you read the same case as me and don't even go: "Huh, there might be something there" makes absolutely no sense to me. Even if you think Trfel is scum, he would have bussed Chez d2 in that world, why could he not be doing that here I think i already said why i think Trfel's vote could be a bus? I also think i answered Trfel's case in how it is possible DMB did that all as town. All these points: Cognitive dissonance 1: Palmar is mafia, but die_meatbaby doesn't take any actions towards lynching Palmar Cognitive dissonance 2: Suspicious of everyone, not inquisitive/not trying to figure things out Cognitive dissonance 3: lots of emotional energy, little/no scumhunting energy What hypothetical point you can make about a someone which you can't say: it is possible to do that all as town ? Cognitive dissonance 1: Palmar is mafia, but die_meatbaby doesn't take any actions towards lynching Palmar - I can see this coming from mafia perspective. But why do this when Palmar is not on the lynch block, and why not enforce it when Palmar is actually up for lynch? Cognitive dissonance 2: Suspicious of everyone, not inquisitive/not trying to figure things out - I dont really think this is mafia motivated, more likely town motivated, since townies dont know who is mafia and are supposed to be suspicious of everyone Cognitive dissonance 3: lots of emotional energy, little/no scumhunting energy - i guess "little to scumhunting energy" can be a point against her. You are misrepresenting my points but I believe this is intentional so I will let you say whatever you feel like I suppose. - If Trfel really believes DMB is mafia, he didn't do anything to change the lynch on D3 to DMB. After i voted, he did absolutely nothing to contribute towards his preferred lynch DMB, just voted for HF and "gave up" for the day for whatever reason. Now the only reason i can of here, is that he wants to keep DMB as a lynch bait. The case he has presented against DMB was all there during D3, why didn't he act on it during D3? - Minor point but still a point, Trfel has (as Koshi did) misrepresented my actions during D1. We all know, or should know Koshi didn't read the thread properly, because he said so, and agreed to that when i was talking with him around the Chezinu lynch. Now Trfel has been reading the thread, at least he is trying to show such M.O. My interpretation is, that he knew Koshi is town, and took Koshi's statement of me having voted for Vivax D1 (when i never really did -- i called Vivax town) at face value without checking it even when i clearly expressed that earlier already, that i never did such thing!!. ##vote Trfel For point 2, it's suspicious regardless of whether or not Palmar is mafia for die_meatbaby. It means that she is looking active by posting about Palmar, but not actually caring. This is only mafia indicative. For point 3, this is answered by point 2. Point 4, I did want to lynch die_meatbaby during day 3 and I pushed this. See this case. I can't help it that not enough people wanted to join. If you actually read the portion of the post on die_meatbaby, which it seems like unfortunately most people did not do, it's actually very strong reasoning towards die_meatbaby being mafia.
And (1)?
(2) and (3). Maybe i can see this.
(4) you probably tried or "tried". I know you didnt try after my vote while at least sandroba was claiming to try doing it..
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On December 21 2023 06:59 Trfel wrote:
In case it isn't obvious, I'm in agreement with sandroba that the mafia team is die_meatbaby and raynpelikoneet. We talked about this in the mason chat and agreed that this was by far the most likely.
For me it has nothing to do with who I want to lose to and who I don't. Raynpelikoneet is playing an amazing game as mafia, this is true. I can look through his filter and only this last day imo is where he has started to give himself away. The most obvious reasons that make him mafia relate to his townread of die_meatbaby, there is absolutely no way that he should have such strong of a townread with so little doubt. His arguments have become increasingly irrational and the situation we have put him in, with a lot of pressure on his remaining mafia partner, has forced his hand. But this relies somewhat on associations with die_meatbaby so we can leave that for later.
Die_meatbaby is mafia for the aforementioned reasons. Once she (presumably) flips mafia, the rest becomes obvious.
Wait so your opinion is i am mafia because i should have no town read on DMB?
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well it's not up to me, i dont buy it.
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It as a nice claim you were with sandroba. well played, i think you owned the win with it. 
gg
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Im gonna sleep anyways so whatever gg!
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Ah shit, i am bad. I am sorry i couldn't see that.
On December 21 2023 12:10 Trfel wrote:
Pretty much confirms Palmar and sandroba as town also. Palmar since I doubt die_meatbaby would push her scum buddy all game, and sandroba due to the day 1 shenanigans.
yes
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You are right. I completely understand if you lynch me.
I had a bad read, and i don't really have a case on Slam.
I doubt i will have a case on Slam tomorrow either.
So i guess well played Slam.
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On December 22 2023 09:21 Palmar wrote:
rayn if you aren't mafia, is slam?
What's your pov?
Of course he is mafia.
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I think the things that point towards Slam being mafia are the following:
- Him masoning Palmar. I didn't really think about this further early on, and i know i said it points towards him being town. However IF Slam is town, i don't understand why he chose to mason Palmar, instead of either Chezinu/marv/rayn. I can now see why he didn't mason Chezinu, the reasoning is obvious.
- Slam really likes to talk with Chezinu, he is one of the people who can actually read Chezinu the best.
- Another good thing to do as town is to mason either marv (or even me). Regardless of marv's alignment (which noone as town cannot know at the start of D1), if you can show your towniness in mason chat with him, he will read you as town. Also marv is quite good in reading Slam.
- I have been talking quite a lot with Slam outside the game, he knows how i think about the game as we have had many discussions about mafia when being irl in the same place.
- We even talked about that in the game:
On December 13 2023 03:35 Alakaslam wrote:Show nested quote +On December 13 2023 02:07 raynpelikoneet wrote:On December 13 2023 02:05 marvellosity wrote:On December 13 2023 02:04 raynpelikoneet wrote:
Slam masoning Palmar is also 100% town, unless they are mafia with each other, but that's quite unlike based on the game.
So Slam also town 100%. Why? Who does Slam mason if mafia? Me or you or Chezinu, or his scumbuddy. Maybe not you. Technically that's a chance, but like why claim? God damn rayn reads me like a book It would in fact be Chezinu. I would try to plead for mercy or just talk about Jesus to essentially waste it.And to try to lessen mafia guilt 
Idk if this is a pretty forced townread on Chezinu or what? After this Chezinu posts nothing and Slam starts a wagon on him D2.
- The D2 wagon, or not really the wagon. When Chezinu started posting, Slam started getting cold feet. Why? Is there something in Chezinu's posting that should make him do that? I think it's because it's easy to vote for your inactive scumbuddy just to let go of the vote after the person actually starts posting. Unfortunately for Slam, that happened too late. Votes had switched already, but he still panicked. Just look at his posting late D2.
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You have to realise at that point even marv didn't understand the benefit of masoning your scumbuddy, so i doubt Slam did.
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EPT
