On June 13 2023 13:43 raynpelikoneet wrote:Alright, here is why this case
Show nested quote +On June 12 2023 22:27 TankTopTiger wrote:
Okay this is just going to go on forever with you getting more and more pedantic, and we're still a way off lynch anyway.
The case is:
(1) CC made a blind read on Rayn early and based her worldview off it
(2) CC is not paranoid when she should be
(3) CC is tunneling with confidence she didn't express last game until much later
(4) CC hasn't pushed anybody but the people that question her (OMGUS)
I'm gonna leave it here for now unless you have anything but nitpicks and telling me to read entire other games when I'm struggling to keep up with this one.
is made by mafia. I have numbered the reasons TTT gives for Cake being mafia and i am going to address them separately.
(1) "CC made a blind read on Rayn early and based her worldview off it"This point on principle makes sense for someone being mafia. However there is a huge problem with me actually believing TTT believes this. Early on he seems like he is actually trying to make sense of Cake's read on me, he talks with me about it, and this is what he ends up with:
Show nested quote +On June 09 2023 19:21 TankTopTiger wrote:
You two knowing each other would explain a lot. The alignment read on you too.
Show nested quote +On June 09 2023 19:22 TankTopTiger wrote:
Right yep okay (congratulations!)
That piece of information basically resolves all my concerns regarding copcake at this point.
Show nested quote +On June 09 2023 19:30 TankTopTiger wrote:
All her actions that are questionable to me revolve around you, so your relationship is an explanation shared among all anomalies.
e.g. she reads you as town for no reason => except she's your fiance and so your relationship plays an enormous part in how she interprets your actions and her trust in you, probably more than anything visible to me in game.
At this point i tell TTT that i don't remember a single game where Cake has read me town when i have been town. He responds with:
Show nested quote +On June 09 2023 19:43 TankTopTiger wrote:
That does make her reading you as town 2x weird.
If you get repeatedly burned, you don't speak well of the fire.
I don't understand how it makes it "2x weird" because at first it
wasn't weird at all. Way of an overstatement, which i would not coming from a town who was
just convinced of there being nothing wrong in Cake's read on me. Moving on...
Show nested quote +On June 09 2023 22:16 TankTopTiger wrote:
For me, the main thing is why you have a town read on Rayn when that contradicts your meta of suspecting him. This meta is demonstrated in obs QT for endurance II, is evidenced by Rayn's report of your usual MO, and is expected based on your match history together of him being scum often (betrayal breeds suspicion not blind trust).
All this other stuff is squabbling compared to that. IMO your answer to this question will likely decide whether you live to see the night.
into:
Show nested quote +On June 09 2023 23:02 TankTopTiger wrote:
@Rayn & CC
I don't think it's plausible that you are both red so I'm going to trust you both when you say it's reasonable for CC to trust Rayn in this game. I'm trusting you two to know each other better than I know you. CC isn't completely off the hook with me, she's still probably most red, but not deep red like she would have been if Rayn answered differently.
I'm gonna go to bed, I expect tomorrow we can resolve these claims about lying etc. with some slower posting if need be.
At this point there is
simply no other reason for TTT to read Cake red than Cake's read on me!!!! He agrees with us that it's at worst NAI for Cake to have a town read on me, but Cake is
STILL red. Absolutely fabricated read!
Almost anything else related to this isn't important anymore. There should simply be
NO WAY TTT reads Cake mafia for this reason based on what he has said in thread regarding it. There is one point though. Since TTT is basing the read on Cake on what rayn says (lol), Cake answers TTT's concerns about it providing meta of Cake <-> rayn "dynamic:
+ Show Spoiler +For this, TTT answers the following:
Show nested quote +On June 12 2023 22:15 TankTopTiger wrote:
If it's a lie take it up with Rayn. I don't read outside games I've played it's too much work. He said it, it made sense given he's been rolling scum a lot, and it was corroborated by obsQT. That's what the read is based on.
Even if it isn't true, you still just flat-out assumed he was town and that's really bad unless you've established it as your meta and you haven't.
So okay, for real... TTT's case on Cake hinges
ENTIRELY ON CAKE TOWNREADING ME WHEN SHE SHOULDN'T! Cake provides
HARD EVIDENCE saying otherwise and the guy
DOESNT EVEN CARE TO LOOK AT IT!!!!!!! I mean like for TTT's case this is the ONLY way Cake can EVER defend herself and prove TTT wrong, and when she tries to do that, the dude just says "fu i dont wanna read that". This is simply 100% mafia talking. Always 100% mafia.
(2) CC is not paranoid when she should be I don't understand what this is about at all since i can't see any reference to this in TTT's filter. I can only assume it refers to point
(1) so basically nothing new here.
(3) CC is tunneling with confidence she didn't express last game until much later There is huge problem here. Noone will never ever "play the game" same in obs than they play when they are actually in the game. I mean, do i even have to go into why this argument is absolutely retarded and fabricated and noone can ever think "you are playing differently than you were obsing" as town?????????? There are many points where TTT uses "but you did this in obs and youre not doing the same now", it's just completely unreal, a town player will never ever think anyone plays the same they obs a game, fucking 100% fact.
(4) CC hasn't pushed anybody but the people that question her (OMGUS)First of all, it is more likely for a townie to tunnel / suspect someone who calls them mafia, because they factually know that person is wrong (not necessarily lying but at least wrong). For a player who knows they are town, scumread on them
ALWAYS looks bad, that's a fact. Marv did it last game (not tunnel, but similar). I have probably done it many times. When there is suspicion on you, when you are town, you want to clear the suspicion. In this game Cake has tried to do so, probably not that well, but still tried to do so. If we assume Cake is town and she is trying to clear the suspicions on her (aka posting her old games etc), if the counter to that is "nah im not gonna look at it, too much work, you still scum", what would
YOU do in that situation? Because i would tunnel the shit out that mafia shithead. It's not OMGUS when the reasoning for the read is absolute garbage.
Another thing regarding this, is that what has TTT himself done other than pushed Cake as mafia for these reasons he shouldn't even believe in? Let's see:
- Waffled on DP all game, always ending up on light green on him (why the hell waffle even, DP is pushing exactly same stuff than him most of D1?)
- Questioned almost conf town LS why he townreads his own townread (really??
)
- Wanted to read marv / Vayoletta, instead of reading got into some random stupid argument with DP
- Some random questions for some random other people that never lead anywhere
I believe in do as you preach. People may have very different opinions on what makes people mafia, or what makes a good case. But they
still always believe in their principles in scumhunting and follow them. If you think something is universally scummy (let it be whatever), you don't do it. The only exception i have ever come across here (aside from random bullshit trolls like kushmasta -- i mean in real mafia players, which i consider everyone being in this game), is MZ, which makes it usually impossible to read him.
Nevertheless, TTT is definitely not doing as he preaches, since basically everything "relevant" he has done in this game is tunnel Cake, even when he has been given
hard evidence that should be making him think otherwise. I would say it's a tunnel when you just skip the provided evidence and end up in same spot you were before, or even purposefully refuse to even look at the evidence.
##vote TTT 
EPT
