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On September 11 2016 01:38 Holyflare wrote:Show nested quote +On September 11 2016 01:35 Calix wrote:On September 11 2016 01:30 Holyflare wrote:
I never said he says that every game it was just to see how you'd react if he plays the same every game (ignoring the post).
I don't even know how fuba plays and I don't really care. That switch from not playing day 1 to inquisitive person that thinks they found a slip and makes posts about it is very hard for mafia to fake. Uh, you DID say that. You just phrased it as a question which implies that fuba makes that kind of comment every game and never said otherwise until now. How is it a reaction test? The answer is obvious because a behaviour repeated by a player every game means that they do the behaviour regardless of alignment, thus said behaviour is NAI for them. With this in mind, what were you hoping to get out of that? No you made a shit case on a town read of mine, perhaps you should read my comment again. You said that fuba os mafia because he's setting himself up to play like shit with that post which is a mafia post. I'm simply asking if it becomes null if he plays like that every game and also since I got the opposite impression from the post when he posted it.
I fail to see how it's a shit case, especially to you, when you made similar points against TT and Grack.
I didn't say "fuba is mafia because he made X comment" - that is only a PART of my case against him. Even if he hadn't made that comment, the rest of my points stand strong.
You didn't ask about wherever it becomes null. (you said 'not scummy' which is not the same thing as 'null')
You haven't said what you were hoping or expecting to get from my reaction.
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On September 11 2016 01:47 NeverUnlucky wrote:
Calix, since you don't s-r the Vivax anymore and are leaving fuba alone for today, who's in your sights for today's lynch?
Good question. I don't have a fucking clue.
Grackaroni is looking townier the more he posts; nobody else scum-reads fuba; I town-read Vivax, you, Superbia, Palmar (shitty town-read but still); TT's train is shitty and if he's scum, then the scum are doing a horrendous job at diverting it (hardly anyone has questioned it which makes me wary)...I'm starting to feel like a lot of the scum are among the lurkers and I don't know how to sort them.
Either that, or they are the sort who are good at looking townie on Day 1.
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On September 11 2016 02:08 NeverUnlucky wrote:Show nested quote +On September 11 2016 01:55 Calix wrote:On September 11 2016 01:47 NeverUnlucky wrote:
Calix, since you don't s-r the Vivax anymore and are leaving fuba alone for today, who's in your sights for today's lynch? Good question. I don't have a fucking clue. Grackaroni is looking townier the more he posts; nobody else scum-reads fuba; I town-read Vivax, you, Superbia, Palmar (shitty town-read but still); TT's train is shitty and if he's scum, then the scum are doing a horrendous job at diverting it (hardly anyone has questioned it which makes me wary)...I'm starting to feel like a lot of the scum are among the lurkers and I don't know how to sort them. Either that, or they are the sort who are good at looking townie on Day 1. Simple yet genuine question. Are you town?
Yes, moron. I really appreciate you going into the game with the intent to use meta when you knew full well that I moved to a different site precisely to avoid being 'meta-read' for retarded reasons. Thanks a fucking lot for ruining that.
Instead of wasting more of my time with personality tests, try asking something useful.
As a side note, I looked back at the cases to see how similar they were and while they weren't as similar as I remembered them being, I figured I'd announce where I was coming from anyway.
I'd like to say that I am not quoting the entirety of the cases made here, just the parts that struck me as similar to my fuba case. (spoilered)
+ Show Spoiler +On September 10 2016 04:31 Calix wrote:
And now that I'm not so skeptical of Vivax's intentions, I'm actually starting to see the case against fuba. He rarely gives his own views, preferring to use other people to push them forward (lots of "I agree with this" or "this" kind of posts) which not only shows that he lacks initiative but it's a way of evading accountability for pushing certain positions. If a position backfires, it puts him in a place to attack the person who initially proposed the idea.
He is self-centred (saying things like "I disagree with this being scummy because it can apply to me") which is self-serving because it shows that he is paying attention to how his actions could be perceived by others and that he's trying to not associate the things he does with scum.
...
I was going to quote the posts where he says "oh I disagree because I do X thing" but my internet decided to turn into a snail halfway through with quoting so post numbers are 242, 245, 246 (pg 13?)
On September 10 2016 09:20 Holyflare wrote:Grackaroni sin counter: Tries to base someone else's bad scummy play on HIS OWN meta as if everyone plays as badly as him: Show nested quote +
These were the posts in question. Does anyone agree with this assessment? They look like normal posts to me. I've definitely made posts like that as town.
^^^^^^^ WHO DOES THAT??????????
I mean, didn't fuba do that when he was saying shit like "I think TT's case is good but some of the weaker points could apply to me" and whatever?
On September 10 2016 09:58 Holyflare wrote:But in this case I actually do think that Ticktock is mafia because: Show nested quote +On September 10 2016 09:40 Holyflare wrote:
Simple facts are:
TT did an opening to try and mimic Trfel from last game really obviously but it looked really forced/stiff
TT posted no content and only one liner posts agreeing
TT's only posts wildly different from his town opening
TT posted something that he couldn't/shouldn't have posted because of what he said
TT has gone afk and done nothing
But... he's not mafia?
This isn't exactly the same though because fuba hasn't ONLY just posted one-liner posts agreeing. He's just expressed his agreement with others a lot. And fuba definitely made posts where he was inconsistent with his positions. (the other bolded point)
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On September 11 2016 02:25 NeverUnlucky wrote:Show nested quote +Yes, moron. I really appreciate you going into the game with the intent to use meta when you knew full well that I moved to a different site precisely to avoid being 'meta-read' for retarded reasons. Thanks a fucking lot for ruining that. It was not my intent. I only came to this point after seeing you copy-paste your scumtelling post from FF7. I still apologize for doing it. I couldn't resist throwing meta in my read. Slap me. Show nested quote +Instead of wasting more of my time with personality tests, try asking something useful I did. I asked you who was your target today.
What the fuck are you talking about? I didn't copy-paste shit and why the actual fuck would anyone copy a post made in a SCUM GAME?
I don't know. I just think that Tictock is going to end in a mislynch because nobody is doing anything to stop his train. Grackaroni spent more time explaining how his posts weren't defending Tictock than he actually did diverting the train and I know I am town. That can ONLY MEAN TWO THINGS:
1. He is town.
2. The entire scum team are so inactive that they don't give a fuck about stopping a lynch on their team mate.
Option 1 is infinitely more likely but I'm not sure how to stop it.
I'll going to reread Holyflare given that he's the only alternative at the moment and I've yet to read his filter properly. I don't really town-read him but I don't scum-read him much either. Since I town-read you, your thoughts on him?
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Oh and we have three hours left and everyone else seems to have buggered off. Wonderful, what a great start to the game.
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On September 11 2016 02:35 Damdred wrote:
You forgot a option tbh, the third option is tt didn't want to play as scum and at least one team mate is light budding with the intent to jump on when the train looks like it,had no breaks,for cred.
COukd it be town tt just going down with the ship, yes it could. But there is no logical reasoning town should defend tt is there? For such a easy target the amount of push back,that has been received from the tt while no one town reads him is staggering tbh.
But really there is so much time left and so few people voting it coups,mean any number of things.
Ew no wtf.
I've already explained that bussing is a horrible fucking strategy for Day 1. Town cred is overrated - nobody gives a shit about who voted for who on Day 1 when it comes to a LYLO situation. I've literally never seen anyone be saved from a lynch because "lol they voted for scum on D1"
Well I am town and I'm defending TT with logical reasoning because scum have no incentive to stick their neck out for a lurker mislynch, so get the fuck off with that 'logic'.
Your last sentence just serves to undermine everything you just said.
0/10, did not like this post whatsoever.
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On September 11 2016 02:41 NeverUnlucky wrote:Show nested quote +On September 11 2016 02:31 Calix wrote:
What the fuck are you talking about? I didn't copy-paste shit and why the actual fuck would anyone copy a post made in a SCUM GAME? You did. I'll show you post-game or after you flip. Show nested quote +I don't know. I just think that Tictock is going to end in a mislynch because nobody is doing anything to stop his train. Grackaroni spent more time explaining how his posts weren't defending Tictock than he actually did diverting the train and I know I am town. That can ONLY MEAN TWO THINGS:
1. He is town.
2. The entire scum team are so inactive that they don't give a fuck about stopping a lynch on their team mate.
Option 1 is infinitely more likely but I'm not sure how to stop it.
I have the same feeling. What does you "knowing you are town" have to do with any of this? I think it's a combination of 1 & 2 -- ie He is town, and scum are inactive, letting town fight each other. Show nested quote +I'll going to reread Holyflare given that he's the only alternative at the moment and I've yet to read his filter properly. I don't really town-read him but I don't scum-read him much either. Since I town-read you, your thoughts on him? He is not the only alternative. I'm mixed. His behavior draws so much attention to him that the only way I can see him being scum is if he is WIFOMing the "too scum to be scum" agenda. I'm leaning town though because throughout all of his scum-reads, none of the reasons he gave appeared as shade-throwing/scum painting, and some of his reads are nuanced. Show nested quote +On September 11 2016 02:18 Calix wrote:On September 11 2016 02:08 NeverUnlucky wrote:
Simple yet genuine question. Are you town? Yes, moron. I really appreciate you going into the game with the intent to use meta when you knew full well that I moved to a different site precisely to avoid being 'meta-read' for retarded reasons. Thanks a fucking lot for ruining that. I'm even more convinced that you rolled scum. A town wouldn't change subject immediately after saying he is town. You are trying to minimalize the emphasis on your answer by doing so.
You are legitimately retarded. You are actually arguing that I would copy-paste a post from a scum game which I am aware that you read. And you are reading my frustration at your stupidity as scummy instead of what it is. Hint: It's NAI because you are pissing me off. It has nothing to do with my alignment, I'm just sick of dealing with you and don't wish to do it in future games. That much I can promise you.
He claims that he is aggressive as all alignments. Dumb argument.
I feel like he's all over the place with what he says. Like he says one thing and does another that doesn't quite add up for me. He hasn't contradicted himself badly enough that I am confident in this read but it makes me uneasy with him. He hasn't done anything that pings me as townie either. Not a scum tell, just means that I don't town-read him either.
I also don't see how 'nuanced' is a town tell, nor do I care to know.
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On September 11 2016 02:49 Damdred wrote:
You aren't defending tt with any form of logic besides bad logic in totally neglecting options when they are perfectly viable. And done lots btw, so bussing d1 is in fact a successful strategy.
But with only three people on the train you can't say that nobody is doing anything to stop it. It's just idiotic.
How is my logic bad? You yourself agreed that TT could be town who the scum aren't trying to defend, lmao.
Just because it's done a lot doesn't make it a good strategy. How does "it's done a lot" mean that it's "successful"? Lots of people think non-contribution = scum , doesn't mean that it's a successful scum tell.
Your last line makes no sense. The day ends in three hours. He is the leading train regardless of the number of votes.
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On September 11 2016 02:52 NeverUnlucky wrote:
That Calix post felt townie.
Calix, you're going to hate me even more than you do right now when you'll learn what my strategy coming into the game was (if you care to hear it).
Could you just say it next time instead of forcing me to ask you for it? If not for me, for the people who have to wade through yet another TvT.
Also if you have nothing else to say, can you focus on HF and Damdred's horrible responses instead? This conversation is stupid.
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The whole "scum could be pushing another lynch" argument doesn't really check out with the current votes. I see nobody trying to make a push for someone who isn't TT.
Maybe I'll be proven wrong and we end up CFD'ing within like, the last half an hour or so but right now? Nah.
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Also there are more people defending the "TT is scum who his team mates don't want to risk defending" angle than there are people actually defending TT, lmao.
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On September 11 2016 03:07 Holyflare wrote:
Calix you're either mafia or you don't know when you're wifoming.
Mafia can do anything they want at any point in the game and you don't know our meta. If anyone was throwing suspicions away from tt for no valid reason it would be you.
Tt has three votes, tt has not come back to post, people ARE defending tt etc etc.
Stop talking around people's posts and what THEY have done and talking about wifom scenarios it's bad play regardless of your alignment.
You should pick a person to mafia read and post why they are mafia for reasons rhey have done.
I know I am town. Why would I say "oh yeah I am defending TT so he must be mafia being defended"?
No, I don't know the meta. That doesn't make my point invalid. What are you even arguing here, that since nobody is defending him that he is still scum that the scum aren't trying to defend? Otherwise what is your point with WIFOM?
No idea what you are even calling me out for here with 'talking around posts'.
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On September 11 2016 03:13 Damdred wrote:
Why would scum defend scum when that scum isn't trying? Why would scum not hop onto,the tt wagon and solidify it when he's a easy lynch and no,real reprocussions?
Both questions are wifom but both have to be answered for your position calix
If both questions are WIFOM then how am I supposed to answer them exactly...? We don't KNOW what the scum are thinking. I am just going to the simplest conclusion of "TT is town and the scum are allowing him to get MLed"
My theory only assumes that TT is town and the scum are not trying to defend him.
Any other theories assume he is scum and that scum are using WIFOM in their strategies.
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On September 11 2016 03:18 Damdred wrote:
Everything in mafia is wifom, me knowing all theories at this point is wifom doesn't negate the question.
And no that's not the easiest answer,because three votes isn't a lynch by any means
Your answers continue to be terrible. My theory is simpler and far more likely. You just sound like you're using WIFOM to justify a mislynch.
He's the current lynch. Nobody is doing anything to prevent that. Your point of "he isn't lynched yet" doesn't negate my argument of "nobody is trying to not make TT the lynch"
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On September 11 2016 03:22 Damdred wrote:
You are again avoiding answering the initial questions and trying to call me terrible for the truth is laughable to say the least
I answered your questions. Make better ones next time that don't require abstract answers.
Your attempt at painting my response as evasive has been noted.
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On September 11 2016 03:24 Holyflare wrote:Show nested quote +On September 11 2016 03:10 Calix wrote:On September 11 2016 03:07 Holyflare wrote:
Calix you're either mafia or you don't know when you're wifoming.
Mafia can do anything they want at any point in the game and you don't know our meta. If anyone was throwing suspicions away from tt for no valid reason it would be you.
Tt has three votes, tt has not come back to post, people ARE defending tt etc etc.
Stop talking around people's posts and what THEY have done and talking about wifom scenarios it's bad play regardless of your alignment.
You should pick a person to mafia read and post why they are mafia for reasons rhey have done. I know I am town. Why would I say "oh yeah I am defending TT so he must be mafia being defended"? No, I don't know the meta. That doesn't make my point invalid. What are you even arguing here, that since nobody is defending him that he is still scum that the scum aren't trying to defend? Otherwise what is your point with WIFOM? No idea what you are even calling me out for here with 'talking around posts'. If you are defending him and are town then it goes to say that your entire point about mafia should be defending him if he's mafia is irrelevant because town can also defend him. Wifom seems to be the entirety of your argument for not voting a scummy guy. Everyone should look at my logic and say if it's right and sheep it because tt is mafia or wrong and he's not and PROVE why. Also vivax why have you let damdred be there saying tt's mafia meta is to afk when you just saw him afk as town?
Mafia are not going to stand by and let one of their own die on Day 1. Several people have said "oh I don't find the TT case convincing" so it's not like the case is so airtight that the scum will give up if TT is scum. So the utter lack of scum defending him or pushing for a different train doesn't make sense.
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On September 11 2016 03:27 Damdred wrote:
You did not answer either of my questions you just threw your previous theory in and discounted,Ted both by saying yours is the easiest.
Which btw is avoiding my questions you can try to play word games all you want but refusing to see or talk about any other possibility than what you believe is bad and pig headed.
That isn't avoiding your questions. I have answered by saying that they are WIFOM so answering the specific questions is fruitless.
It does not make sense for scum to let one of their own die on Day 1 because that directly works against their win condition.
The other argument so far is "scum are bussing" (for 'town cred' which is overrated and you hardly get any town cred from lynching a lurker)
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On September 11 2016 03:30 Damdred wrote:Show nested quote +On September 11 2016 03:27 Calix wrote:On September 11 2016 03:24 Holyflare wrote:On September 11 2016 03:10 Calix wrote:On September 11 2016 03:07 Holyflare wrote:
Calix you're either mafia or you don't know when you're wifoming.
Mafia can do anything they want at any point in the game and you don't know our meta. If anyone was throwing suspicions away from tt for no valid reason it would be you.
Tt has three votes, tt has not come back to post, people ARE defending tt etc etc.
Stop talking around people's posts and what THEY have done and talking about wifom scenarios it's bad play regardless of your alignment.
You should pick a person to mafia read and post why they are mafia for reasons rhey have done. I know I am town. Why would I say "oh yeah I am defending TT so he must be mafia being defended"? No, I don't know the meta. That doesn't make my point invalid. What are you even arguing here, that since nobody is defending him that he is still scum that the scum aren't trying to defend? Otherwise what is your point with WIFOM? No idea what you are even calling me out for here with 'talking around posts'. If you are defending him and are town then it goes to say that your entire point about mafia should be defending him if he's mafia is irrelevant because town can also defend him. Wifom seems to be the entirety of your argument for not voting a scummy guy. Everyone should look at my logic and say if it's right and sheep it because tt is mafia or wrong and he's not and PROVE why. Also vivax why have you let damdred be there saying tt's mafia meta is to afk when you just saw him afk as town? Mafia are not going to stand by and let one of their own die on Day 1. Several people have said "oh I don't find the TT case convincing" so it's not like the case is so airtight that the scum will give up if TT is scum. So the utter lack of scum defending him or pushing for a different train doesn't make sense. Mafia stand by and let there own die all the time, Like I said why would scum defend scum when the scum in question isn't even doing anything? The answer is simple,they won't and will see what the thread does.
[citation needed]
Why would scum not try to divert the lynch onto another lurker if that was the case then?
See, I can ask dumb abstract questions about what the scum might hypothetically do too!
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On September 11 2016 03:33 NeverUnlucky wrote:
Calix, what did you get from your filter of HF?
And DDD is right, mafia let their teammates die all the time.
Haven't finished reading it yet because the WIFOM discussion is distracting me.
The fact that HF is pushing this dumb idea alongside Damdred is just making me want to vote for him though. Given that I am someone who has not voted for TT/ HF yet, it's possible that the two of them are trying to sway me into voting for TT via the power of convoluted scum tactics.
I just don't see two townies trying to persuade me into voting for TT (why else would they be discussing this?) via abstract hypothetical scenarios.
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I can support a Damdred vote too because he's pushing this idea too and he's focusing too much on hypothetical scenarios of scum!TT and debates over actually discussing players.
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EPT
