On September 29 2016 03:17 Xatalos wrote: Skynx's static non-reaction to my biggest contribution so far ("still scum because OMGUS, nothing will ever change that!") makes me quite sure that he has to be scum.
If you're still not convinced, read this with some thought and then look at Skynx's filter:
On September 29 2016 02:38 Xatalos wrote: Skynx Soft-defended Lunatic, ignored him or counter-pushed away from him on several occasions during D1 (see ptmc's eventlist for easy details, just search for "Skynx" lines in red text, or read his filter). Never pressured Lunatic or contributed to his lynch either (no, the one-liner "Lunatic had the worst intro post I guess" didn't impact his own or anyone else's play during D1). A Lunatic/Skynx scumteam makes the most sense to me.
I commented on your push and why it was crap and why it made you scum. Your comment on it pretty much ignored everything I put on the table and just said OMGUS. Therefore you painting me as "static non-reaction" is just hilarious.
On September 29 2016 04:37 Xatalos wrote: Rels, what do you even think of Skynx?
I think he's town. I can follow his entire train of thought for D2 and I believe it is real.
Hm. To me his D2 play looked more like "a case on me? it's not even good? a chance, time to go full OMGUS and never look back!" and that forever after.
A case? You mean the sole argument of me trying to prevent Lunatic gettin lynched?
On September 29 2016 03:17 Xatalos wrote: Skynx's static non-reaction to my biggest contribution so far ("still scum because OMGUS, nothing will ever change that!") makes me quite sure that he has to be scum.
If you're still not convinced, read this with some thought and then look at Skynx's filter:
On September 29 2016 02:38 Xatalos wrote: Skynx Soft-defended Lunatic, ignored him or counter-pushed away from him on several occasions during D1 (see ptmc's eventlist for easy details, just search for "Skynx" lines in red text, or read his filter). Never pressured Lunatic or contributed to his lynch either (no, the one-liner "Lunatic had the worst intro post I guess" didn't impact his own or anyone else's play during D1). A Lunatic/Skynx scumteam makes the most sense to me.
I commented on your push and why it was crap and why it made you scum. Your comment on it pretty much ignored everything I put on the table and just said OMGUS. Therefore you painting me as "static non-reaction" is just hilarious.
I agree I presented your filter's ugly truths badly earlier, but it doesn't make me scum. The core of my suspicion on you came from reading ptmc's list of your actions on D1, which were about all scum-aligned. I should have just listed those, but for some reason I went looking for additional things that weren't very damning. Keep it simple, stupid
ptmc's list was good, but I already addressed those. They weren't OMGUS at all, you seem to be the only one thinking so anyway.
On September 29 2016 03:17 Xatalos wrote: Skynx's static non-reaction to my biggest contribution so far ("still scum because OMGUS, nothing will ever change that!") makes me quite sure that he has to be scum.
If you're still not convinced, read this with some thought and then look at Skynx's filter:
On September 29 2016 02:38 Xatalos wrote: Skynx Soft-defended Lunatic, ignored him or counter-pushed away from him on several occasions during D1 (see ptmc's eventlist for easy details, just search for "Skynx" lines in red text, or read his filter). Never pressured Lunatic or contributed to his lynch either (no, the one-liner "Lunatic had the worst intro post I guess" didn't impact his own or anyone else's play during D1). A Lunatic/Skynx scumteam makes the most sense to me.
I commented on your push and why it was crap and why it made you scum. Your comment on it pretty much ignored everything I put on the table and just said OMGUS. Therefore you painting me as "static non-reaction" is just hilarious.
I agree I presented your filter's ugly truths badly earlier, but it doesn't make me scum. The core of my suspicion on you came from reading ptmc's list of your actions on D1, which were about all scum-aligned. I should have just listed those, but for some reason I went looking for additional things that weren't very damning. Keep it simple, stupid
ptmc's list was good, but I already addressed those. They weren't OMGUS at all, you seem to be the only one thinking so anyway.
It is OMGUS if the only reason to push someone is that they pushed you.
It's the reasons behind your push that I pushed you, which were nada other than me/Lunatic association as it has been mentioned a million times. I guess we just agree to disagree.
On September 24 2016 16:18 Skynx wrote: Hmm Lunatic intro worst i guess.
Man i dont get why get this PL discussion every game. Its quite simple, odds are town barely have any info D1 to decide on a proper lynch, hence guy with 2 posts dies. Sometimes scum slip, or someone has incredible meta read confidence or w/e, then you dont't pl. Simple stuff.
On September 24 2016 16:18 Skynx wrote: Hmm Lunatic intro worst i guess.
Man i dont get why get this PL discussion every game. Its quite simple, odds are town barely have any info D1 to decide on a proper lynch, hence guy with 2 posts dies. Sometimes scum slip, or someone has incredible meta read confidence or w/e, then you dont't pl. Simple stuff.
Somehow I knew you would say that. I hope we can stay on friendly terms this time around but I doubt it.
Stutters is so far the most obvious townie.
I am a bit afraid of the logical development of this game. TL is filled with smarties that loves to talk the talk but always lynch the random dude that didnt sound smart.
This will be the doom of us all I tell you, nobody can look more perfect then the mafia because they already know everything!
This looks like the current meta afk townies and leading mafia for sure. This totally reminds me if the palmar/hf domination game check it out.
I know you'd say this
On September 25 2016 04:37 Skynx wrote: What makes you so soure Stutters pr Lunatic?
On September 26 2016 02:21 Xatalos wrote: Well, actually there's also a third scenario, where he's town and simply messed up by making a blue read, including it in his read list for some reason (without specifically saying that he thought he was a blue) and then saying it out loud in the heat of the moment. I guess that's a bit more likely than the scenario #2 after all since he's a newbie... But scenario #1 seems the most credible one, I guess. Hm. Any opinions?
Man I somehow feel like Luna is just misinformed town trying to cover up mistake of being lazy and saying he's blue.
Fking lynch me first just to confirm Xata/DYH then lynch stutters if the game isn't over already. Oh wait thats just not necessary cuz you two are getting lynched anyway.
On September 29 2016 06:40 Jealous wrote: I'm starting to WIFOM over the fact that DYH showed up just before EoD when the train is on him. Like, would a scum normally do this? I don't think I would lol. The reason it's WIFOM is because maybe he is trying to make people doubt his scumminess last second and shenanie? I'm locked in but I'll feel a little bad about it if he flips town ):
Depends on the person. Depends on the situation.
I'm actually gunna go ahead and say DYH is 100% scum here though. Mostly because he stopped doing his read posts as soon as we questioned it and changed gears.
There is town giving thoughts, and there is scum trying to look like they are productive.
This is town for the same reason that I thought Luna was misinformed town earlier broskis.
Anyways, process of elimination & Lunatic interactions have left me with Skynx/scott as the most probable scumteam now. Anything you have to say about that? Would be especially interesting to hear your current Skynx/Jealous/Tictock reads.
And I still don't see the case for stutters besides his subpar activity/play. I guess I might have to elaborate on my other reason a bit later if need be.
Something feels wrong though. Like can it really be something as easy as Skynx/scott?
I think I'll be reading Rels filter for the time being. Be back a bit later.
I think Skynx guy is quite town, same with TT and Jeal.
On September 29 2016 06:48 Jealous wrote: I petition that if DYH is scum, and Stutters doesn't vote, that the game ends here and we get all the trophies.
I will get the trophies and you will be jealous
Your vote is on Skynx hahahahaha
Oh yeah.... Gotta change that I guess
So what was your reason sr'ing DYH again? It should be quite something to deviate you from your course of eliminating your top sr target mr Skynx.
On September 29 2016 06:24 Calix wrote: Actually I have one question. DYH, who are you going to vote for and why? Don't spend ages on answering this, lol.
##Vote: Scott
I've been thinking about Superbia's kill. There are 4 reasons I can think of for it.
1. Medic dodge. 2. Town is off track, didn't want a fresh vet voice changing things 3. Superbia is on right track 4. WIFOM salad
#1 is obviously the case. With their RB gone they aren't going to target Calix (most townread person N1). #2 is iffy. Obviously taking out a fresh voice in Superbia accomplishes this, but he isn't heavily townread and he has stated repeatedly that he was going to be lazy this game. #3 is the most likely case. After losing your RB the first night you can't risk someone with correct suspicions putting you down 0-2. Most common reason to kill someone, also makes the most sense from the mafia perspective this game. #4 is very unlikely. There are too many people who have established themselves decently as town, too many people more productive than Superbia.
On September 29 2016 22:17 Calix wrote: So I decided to look back through the posts leading up to the ML and I think Jealous has the most questionable sequence with regards to his DYH read.
On September 28 2016 08:31 Jealous wrote: It seems like people have mostly vocally agreed on DYH with a few exceptions, but I don't see the votes on him. I'll construct my case on him then, just so that it's out there. I was going to revisit Stutters but I see DYH as priority right now. Working.
On September 24 2016 11:26 DoYouHas wrote: I think I like you as well Stutters. Good on ya.
- I'll try to get into something beyond these gut reads tomorrow, hopefully when a few more people have posted. As is I'm pretty happy with tonight. 3/5 for my town pile and 2 I need to think about and watch. Gnight.
Promises more substance tomorrow, let's see if he delivers.
On September 25 2016 10:11 DoYouHas wrote: I am around Stutters. What are your thoughts on ptmc? I'll trade you for some on SEQ.
He's been gone for almost 24 hours and comes back with this. For reference, Stutters was making a case on SEQ and told people to go look at SEQ filter. DYH is basically saying "okay, I'll do what you suggest to check out your scumread and work with you, but only if you give me your thoughts on ptmc, about whom I haven't said a word yet." I don't know if this is very townie behavior. Why wouldn't he just give his thoughts on SEQ and then ask about ptmc?
Interesting post from Xata on this, prior to DoYouHas' return:
On September 25 2016 06:50 Xatalos wrote: DoYouHas did make quite a bit of posts earlier btw.
6 posts, only 4 of which were during the game, and none of which had substance besides 3 gut reads. Is this really worth commenting on? Is this really "quite a bit?" Hmm.
On September 25 2016 00:23 Lunaticman wrote: The game is 4 pages long day one, take a chill pill. I dare to say I have done more than half the players in the game and in my experience you never hit mafia day one. It is much better to build a town circle.
Also Stutters is in all likelyhood a blue role. And if he dies it is on you and Rels.
Am I crazy for thinking this is an anti town post? Making Stutters out to be blue role with no nuance is downright retarded.
It is absolutely anti-town. Do you think it is bad play or scum?
On September 25 2016 10:53 DoYouHas wrote: So is it bad enough that you would want to lynch him or do you currently have a stronger scum read on someone else currently?
On September 25 2016 11:09 DoYouHas wrote: @Jealous, are you in and out? Why is it taking you this long to respond to me?
As Tictock pointed out, DYH seems to be pressuring me more than Lunatic despite (at least superficially) agreeing with me that Lunatic is playing anti-town. In fact, DYH hadn't said a word about Lunatic at all up until this point. Surely he saw the post? Why ignore Lunatic? Why jump on me?
On September 26 2016 03:43 Superbia wrote: I need a champion.
You have Giacomo! (so long as you are leading against DH, Luna, or Jealous)
So he throws Luna into the mix now that Luna has drawn attention but dilutes it by throwing two other names in there, neither of which he had mentioned until now. The only person he had really said anything of substance about until here is SEQ, besides his gutreads at the start of the game. (Also, he didn't really contribute anything in over 27 hours, despite promising to do so). This is his first time calling any of the three scum, and does it in a way that provides no substance whatsoever.
On September 26 2016 03:50 Superbia wrote: I am so fucking confused as to why no one has called me mafia yet this game and now everyone is reacting like this.
???
Oh well.
Activity levels are low and there are better lynch targets than you, especially if your going to ramp up.
DH's tunnel onto Luna is very contrived with no follow through. Pair that with his questionable early posting and it feels like scum to me. Maybe he brings something to the table before deadline now, but it feels like he tunneled just long enough to get the spotlight on someone else then disappeared.
Luna made an anti-town play and has essentially shut down since coming under the displeasure of the thread, making him a very reasonable lynch and possible scum. I don't think making a meta read is in any way alignment indicative but I appear to be in the minority on that.
Jealous started with fluff, then stirred the pot, and finished by being super non-commital. Townies should be trusting there own judgement over that of people's whose alignments are uncertain. Also potentially scum.
Here he elaborates, imaginably because he is trying to get Superbia to sheep him. Doesn't like DH for scumreading Luna, despite also saying Luna is "possible scum," and then puts me in the same group again. Note, I was against Luna at the time as well. How would that team of 3 ever make sense? Both I and DH go for a bus halfway through D1 when there were only a handful of pages and posts, after telling Lunatic to post like an idiot? That's a stretch, and DYH makes no sense here otherwise.
On September 26 2016 03:50 Superbia wrote: I am so fucking confused as to why no one has called me mafia yet this game and now everyone is reacting like this.
???
Oh well.
Activity levels are low and there are better lynch targets than you, especially if your going to ramp up.
DH's tunnel onto Luna is very contrived with no follow through. Pair that with his questionable early posting and it feels like scum to me. Maybe he brings something to the table before deadline now, but it feels like he tunneled just long enough to get the spotlight on someone else then disappeared.
Luna made an anti-town play and has essentially shut down since coming under the displeasure of the thread, making him a very reasonable lynch and possible scum. I don't think making a meta read is in any way alignment indicative but I appear to be in the minority on that.
Jealous started with fluff, then stirred the pot, and finished by being super non-commital. Townies should be trusting there own judgement over that of people's whose alignments are uncertain. Also potentially scum.
So uh.
Read on DH is pre-flip association or what?
I don't think Luna and Dane are likely to be scum together, but taking there play individually I think either of them could be scum here. Is that what you meant?
I guess this explains the previous post somewhat, but he only makes the distinction when asked by Superbia? You would think that would be something you'd want to put in your post that is supposed to be informative to Superbia, and not only when probed further. In short, he threw out three scum reads he had never mentioned until then, then elaborated on it, but didn't mention he didn't think they were on a team together. That's careless at best; misleading seems more likely.
On September 26 2016 04:18 DoYouHas wrote: ##Vote: Luna
Kind of a shame, in my head he was going to come back strong today and I was going to be able to make a case for Dane over him. But every hour that goes by without him contributing makes it more and more likely he flips scum.
On September 25 2016 10:11 DoYouHas wrote: I am around Stutters. What are your thoughts on ptmc? I'll trade you for some on SEQ.
On September 25 2016 11:02 DoYouHas wrote:
On September 25 2016 10:56 Stutters695 wrote:
On September 25 2016 10:11 DoYouHas wrote: I am around Stutters. What are your thoughts on ptmc? I'll trade you for some on SEQ.
I don't think ptmc is a better lynch before SEQ gets to respond.
Voting me with his focus on Luna is super weird also.
SEQ does not bother me much at all. He reads like he jumped in with both feet and started rooting around. The line you bolded would be weak reasoning if he had actually gone after Xata or spread suspicion on him, but I don't think he did. He moves on pretty quickly and after talking about mafia in a pretty general sense (not unusual for someone new to forum mafia, especially with Jealous getting into it too) he seems to be scumhunting. You have picked a pretty early statement from him that does not, to me, hold the significance you are assigning it.
Calix is right. The sequence seems pretty forced. DYH said "I'll exchange your read on ptmc for my read on SEQ" when his read on SEQ is null. And it also looks like he was waiting of Stutters to go "OK what's your read on SEQ now ?"; but Stutters didn't, and DYH said it anyway. It looks like it was planned to appear to have a conversation.
Or maybe, just maybe, both of your assumptions are wrong here.
1. I wasn't providing a null read on SEQ 2. I was actually trying to have a conversation with someone I townread.
Stutters being the "someone I townread," which he did with "gut" in the first few hours of the game, which he never mentioned again. Also note that he still hasn't provided anything as he had promised at the start.
On September 26 2016 11:56 DoYouHas wrote: GRAH, I CAN'T MAKE IT STICK
For everything I don't like about you and think makes you scum: Your early fluff, non-committal, over-defensiveness, appeals to your noobieness, misrepresenting me, buddying Calix, looking at the proposal of multiple wagons from a mafia perspective instead of a town one (looking at it as a trap to be avoided instead of as an opportunity for better VCA) I can't seem to find the mafia actions in your play around the lynch. If I'm having trouble convincing myself of probably the most important part when I undoubtedly have my confirmation bias glasses on it probably isn't there. I was seeing your tonal shifts from casually attacking Luna to guarded consideration then back to casual attacking as very odd. But the thing I can't figure out if you are scum is why you would leave your vote on Luna and not Stutters before the wagon on Luna got rolling. This post:
On September 25 2016 17:17 Jealous wrote: I have to agree with Calix on the more anti-town part. [B]## Lunaticman just in case I don't make it back.
It doesn't fit or is significantly more clever than I am.
Damn, damn, damn. I hate having no scum reads. I really do need to get to bed though. See you all with the daypost.
This takes him a whole hour and he calls me all sorts of terrible but still can't make a case. This means he is town/null-reading everyone in the game, was pushing a lynch/scumread since his first few posts D1 that he himself can't support and had given no concrete evidence on at all until he was forced to draw some out. That is simply foolish, and scummy in my book.
These are his last two posts, nearly a day ago. And frankly, I don't think they are very good. Although I think Rels post did have some stuff I didn't agree with, and DYH pointed them out, the rest of it was pretty weak. He doesn't make much sense in some parts nor does he substantiate much of his argument about why DH or I were scummy, which he references a few times. His earlier posts on the subject were, as you can see above, were weak as well, so it's not like he could reference some strong analysis from before.
Overall, I think DYH is scum. I don't think neither Xata nor skynx are worth a vote right now, but I will definitely look into them more in detail. There are still some fishy things I don't like about Xata and Skynx doesn't seem to be paying much attention to the game in certain posts of his, which I don't like but can't necessarily say is scummy until I see them side-by-side in analysis.
So yea, I voted DYH.
He acknowledges that DYH is someone that pretty much everyone agrees is scummy, yet he thinks that it's a good use of his time to make a massive case against him and hop on the train because 'he doesn't have that many votes on him'. Keep in mind that DYH is the leading train at this point with the Xatalos/ Skynx thing being supported by almost nobody save for each other and Stutters having a few supporters. That is it. The Stutters train was not even a thing for most of the day.
He references a fair number of arguments used by other players (TT, myself, etc) and the points he added aren't anything massively incriminating in retrospect. My point? It makes me wonder why Jealous felt the need to devote a large amount of his time to a case on someone that he was already scum-reading given that he largely rehashes the arguments of other players and this is all on a player that he's already given opinions on. That's not a case of bad priorities, that's posting for the hell of it.
If you want an example of not-scummy points he raised, look no further than him criticising DYH for going "Lunatic, Jealous, DanelerH are my scum-reads" because "that team makes no sense". This is all fine and dandy...if we were talking about a post made on Day 4. That's not the case though; he's talking about reads made early on Day 1. Most players do not consider associative tells that early on in the game because the goal is to lynch a scum. Until then, you have no concrete information to base associative reads from so criticising DYH for that is nit-picky and doesn't add anything to the argument.
[B]On September 29 2016 06:40 Jealous wrote: I'm starting to WIFOM over the fact that DYH showed up just before EoD when the train is on him. Like, would a scum normally do this? I don't think I would lol. The reason it's WIFOM is because maybe he is trying to make people doubt his scumminess last second and shenanie? I'm locked in but I'll feel a little bad about it if he flips town ):
As you can see, he is showing some doubt over DYH flipping scum. That's all fine, nothing to see there, but his reasoning is absolutely insane.
tl;dr:
- DYH showed up when he got voted - Scum wouldn't bother to turn up because scum!Jealous would not bother
As Rels said earlier, this is a piss-poor reason to start doubting a scum-read when a) scum 100% would want to defend themselves so that they...don't get lynched and b) time-zones/ RL commitments can also influence if someone arrives at EOD.
That's not a strong enough explanation to make anyone doubt themselves about a read, especially after the case that Jealous made where he concluded 'scum'. The mere act of posting at EOD when you are being voted has jack shit to do with your alignment.
Furthermore, he wasn't interested in switching wagons from DYH so I see no logical or emotional motivation for this sudden doubt. Thus I'm concluding that he's full of shit. That post had him stretching so hard for an excuse to distance from the ML that he sprained a muscle.
I don't think this makes Jealous scum. If you're scum why just not vote DYH without giving any reason and live happily ever after
On September 29 2016 06:48 Jealous wrote: I petition that if DYH is scum, and Stutters doesn't vote, that the game ends here and we get all the trophies.
I will get the trophies and you will be jealous
Your vote is on Skynx hahahahaha
Oh yeah.... Gotta change that I guess
So what was your reason sr'ing DYH again? It should be quite something to deviate you from your course of eliminating your top sr target mr Skynx.
It truly did not matter what I voted at that point in time. I just switched to DYH after Jealous mentioned that I wouldn't be getting any glory from the lynch since I wasn't even voting for him. Sadly it was in vain :/
Meh. I think there's just seriously something I'm missing here.
On September 29 2016 22:17 Calix wrote: So I decided to look back through the posts leading up to the ML and I think Jealous has the most questionable sequence with regards to his DYH read.
On September 28 2016 08:31 Jealous wrote: It seems like people have mostly vocally agreed on DYH with a few exceptions, but I don't see the votes on him. I'll construct my case on him then, just so that it's out there. I was going to revisit Stutters but I see DYH as priority right now. Working.
On September 24 2016 11:26 DoYouHas wrote: I think I like you as well Stutters. Good on ya.
- I'll try to get into something beyond these gut reads tomorrow, hopefully when a few more people have posted. As is I'm pretty happy with tonight. 3/5 for my town pile and 2 I need to think about and watch. Gnight.
Promises more substance tomorrow, let's see if he delivers.
On September 25 2016 10:11 DoYouHas wrote: I am around Stutters. What are your thoughts on ptmc? I'll trade you for some on SEQ.
He's been gone for almost 24 hours and comes back with this. For reference, Stutters was making a case on SEQ and told people to go look at SEQ filter. DYH is basically saying "okay, I'll do what you suggest to check out your scumread and work with you, but only if you give me your thoughts on ptmc, about whom I haven't said a word yet." I don't know if this is very townie behavior. Why wouldn't he just give his thoughts on SEQ and then ask about ptmc?
Interesting post from Xata on this, prior to DoYouHas' return:
On September 25 2016 06:50 Xatalos wrote: DoYouHas did make quite a bit of posts earlier btw.
6 posts, only 4 of which were during the game, and none of which had substance besides 3 gut reads. Is this really worth commenting on? Is this really "quite a bit?" Hmm.
On September 25 2016 00:23 Lunaticman wrote: The game is 4 pages long day one, take a chill pill. I dare to say I have done more than half the players in the game and in my experience you never hit mafia day one. It is much better to build a town circle.
Also Stutters is in all likelyhood a blue role. And if he dies it is on you and Rels.
Am I crazy for thinking this is an anti town post? Making Stutters out to be blue role with no nuance is downright retarded.
It is absolutely anti-town. Do you think it is bad play or scum?
On September 25 2016 10:53 DoYouHas wrote: So is it bad enough that you would want to lynch him or do you currently have a stronger scum read on someone else currently?
On September 25 2016 11:09 DoYouHas wrote: @Jealous, are you in and out? Why is it taking you this long to respond to me?
As Tictock pointed out, DYH seems to be pressuring me more than Lunatic despite (at least superficially) agreeing with me that Lunatic is playing anti-town. In fact, DYH hadn't said a word about Lunatic at all up until this point. Surely he saw the post? Why ignore Lunatic? Why jump on me?
On September 26 2016 03:43 Superbia wrote: I need a champion.
You have Giacomo! (so long as you are leading against DH, Luna, or Jealous)
So he throws Luna into the mix now that Luna has drawn attention but dilutes it by throwing two other names in there, neither of which he had mentioned until now. The only person he had really said anything of substance about until here is SEQ, besides his gutreads at the start of the game. (Also, he didn't really contribute anything in over 27 hours, despite promising to do so). This is his first time calling any of the three scum, and does it in a way that provides no substance whatsoever.
On September 26 2016 03:50 Superbia wrote: I am so fucking confused as to why no one has called me mafia yet this game and now everyone is reacting like this.
???
Oh well.
Activity levels are low and there are better lynch targets than you, especially if your going to ramp up.
DH's tunnel onto Luna is very contrived with no follow through. Pair that with his questionable early posting and it feels like scum to me. Maybe he brings something to the table before deadline now, but it feels like he tunneled just long enough to get the spotlight on someone else then disappeared.
Luna made an anti-town play and has essentially shut down since coming under the displeasure of the thread, making him a very reasonable lynch and possible scum. I don't think making a meta read is in any way alignment indicative but I appear to be in the minority on that.
Jealous started with fluff, then stirred the pot, and finished by being super non-commital. Townies should be trusting there own judgement over that of people's whose alignments are uncertain. Also potentially scum.
Here he elaborates, imaginably because he is trying to get Superbia to sheep him. Doesn't like DH for scumreading Luna, despite also saying Luna is "possible scum," and then puts me in the same group again. Note, I was against Luna at the time as well. How would that team of 3 ever make sense? Both I and DH go for a bus halfway through D1 when there were only a handful of pages and posts, after telling Lunatic to post like an idiot? That's a stretch, and DYH makes no sense here otherwise.
On September 26 2016 03:50 Superbia wrote: I am so fucking confused as to why no one has called me mafia yet this game and now everyone is reacting like this.
???
Oh well.
Activity levels are low and there are better lynch targets than you, especially if your going to ramp up.
DH's tunnel onto Luna is very contrived with no follow through. Pair that with his questionable early posting and it feels like scum to me. Maybe he brings something to the table before deadline now, but it feels like he tunneled just long enough to get the spotlight on someone else then disappeared.
Luna made an anti-town play and has essentially shut down since coming under the displeasure of the thread, making him a very reasonable lynch and possible scum. I don't think making a meta read is in any way alignment indicative but I appear to be in the minority on that.
Jealous started with fluff, then stirred the pot, and finished by being super non-commital. Townies should be trusting there own judgement over that of people's whose alignments are uncertain. Also potentially scum.
So uh.
Read on DH is pre-flip association or what?
I don't think Luna and Dane are likely to be scum together, but taking there play individually I think either of them could be scum here. Is that what you meant?
I guess this explains the previous post somewhat, but he only makes the distinction when asked by Superbia? You would think that would be something you'd want to put in your post that is supposed to be informative to Superbia, and not only when probed further. In short, he threw out three scum reads he had never mentioned until then, then elaborated on it, but didn't mention he didn't think they were on a team together. That's careless at best; misleading seems more likely.
On September 26 2016 04:18 DoYouHas wrote: ##Vote: Luna
Kind of a shame, in my head he was going to come back strong today and I was going to be able to make a case for Dane over him. But every hour that goes by without him contributing makes it more and more likely he flips scum.
On September 25 2016 10:11 DoYouHas wrote: I am around Stutters. What are your thoughts on ptmc? I'll trade you for some on SEQ.
On September 25 2016 11:02 DoYouHas wrote:
On September 25 2016 10:56 Stutters695 wrote:
On September 25 2016 10:11 DoYouHas wrote: I am around Stutters. What are your thoughts on ptmc? I'll trade you for some on SEQ.
I don't think ptmc is a better lynch before SEQ gets to respond.
Voting me with his focus on Luna is super weird also.
SEQ does not bother me much at all. He reads like he jumped in with both feet and started rooting around. The line you bolded would be weak reasoning if he had actually gone after Xata or spread suspicion on him, but I don't think he did. He moves on pretty quickly and after talking about mafia in a pretty general sense (not unusual for someone new to forum mafia, especially with Jealous getting into it too) he seems to be scumhunting. You have picked a pretty early statement from him that does not, to me, hold the significance you are assigning it.
Calix is right. The sequence seems pretty forced. DYH said "I'll exchange your read on ptmc for my read on SEQ" when his read on SEQ is null. And it also looks like he was waiting of Stutters to go "OK what's your read on SEQ now ?"; but Stutters didn't, and DYH said it anyway. It looks like it was planned to appear to have a conversation.
Or maybe, just maybe, both of your assumptions are wrong here.
1. I wasn't providing a null read on SEQ 2. I was actually trying to have a conversation with someone I townread.
Stutters being the "someone I townread," which he did with "gut" in the first few hours of the game, which he never mentioned again. Also note that he still hasn't provided anything as he had promised at the start.
On September 26 2016 11:56 DoYouHas wrote: GRAH, I CAN'T MAKE IT STICK
For everything I don't like about you and think makes you scum: Your early fluff, non-committal, over-defensiveness, appeals to your noobieness, misrepresenting me, buddying Calix, looking at the proposal of multiple wagons from a mafia perspective instead of a town one (looking at it as a trap to be avoided instead of as an opportunity for better VCA) I can't seem to find the mafia actions in your play around the lynch. If I'm having trouble convincing myself of probably the most important part when I undoubtedly have my confirmation bias glasses on it probably isn't there. I was seeing your tonal shifts from casually attacking Luna to guarded consideration then back to casual attacking as very odd. But the thing I can't figure out if you are scum is why you would leave your vote on Luna and not Stutters before the wagon on Luna got rolling. This post:
On September 25 2016 17:17 Jealous wrote: I have to agree with Calix on the more anti-town part. ## Lunaticman just in case I don't make it back.
It doesn't fit or is significantly more clever than I am.
Damn, damn, damn. I hate having no scum reads. I really do need to get to bed though. See you all with the daypost.
This takes him a whole hour and he calls me all sorts of terrible but still can't make a case. This means he is town/null-reading everyone in the game, was pushing a lynch/scumread since his first few posts D1 that he himself can't support and had given no concrete evidence on at all until he was forced to draw some out. That is simply foolish, and scummy in my book.
These are his last two posts, nearly a day ago. And frankly, I don't think they are very good. Although I think Rels post did have some stuff I didn't agree with, and DYH pointed them out, the rest of it was pretty weak. He doesn't make much sense in some parts nor does he substantiate much of his argument about why DH or I were scummy, which he references a few times. His earlier posts on the subject were, as you can see above, were weak as well, so it's not like he could reference some strong analysis from before.
Overall, I think DYH is scum. I don't think neither Xata nor skynx are worth a vote right now, but I will definitely look into them more in detail. There are still some fishy things I don't like about Xata and Skynx doesn't seem to be paying much attention to the game in certain posts of his, which I don't like but can't necessarily say is scummy until I see them side-by-side in analysis.
So yea, I voted DYH.
He acknowledges that DYH is someone that pretty much everyone agrees is scummy, yet he thinks that it's a good use of his time to make a massive case against him and hop on the train because 'he doesn't have that many votes on him'. Keep in mind that DYH is the leading train at this point with the Xatalos/ Skynx thing being supported by almost nobody save for each other and Stutters having a few supporters. That is it. The Stutters train was not even a thing for most of the day.
He references a fair number of arguments used by other players (TT, myself, etc) and the points he added aren't anything massively incriminating in retrospect. My point? It makes me wonder why Jealous felt the need to devote a large amount of his time to a case on someone that he was already scum-reading given that he largely rehashes the arguments of other players and this is all on a player that he's already given opinions on. That's not a case of bad priorities, that's posting for the hell of it.
If you want an example of not-scummy points he raised, look no further than him criticising DYH for going "Lunatic, Jealous, DanelerH are my scum-reads" because "that team makes no sense". This is all fine and dandy...if we were talking about a post made on Day 4. That's not the case though; he's talking about reads made early on Day 1. Most players do not consider associative tells that early on in the game because the goal is to lynch a scum. Until then, you have no concrete information to base associative reads from so criticising DYH for that is nit-picky and doesn't add anything to the argument.
This is also one of the worst EOD posts:
On September 29 2016 06:40 Jealous wrote: I'm starting to WIFOM over the fact that DYH showed up just before EoD when the train is on him. Like, would a scum normally do this? I don't think I would lol. The reason it's WIFOM is because maybe he is trying to make people doubt his scumminess last second and shenanie? I'm locked in but I'll feel a little bad about it if he flips town ):
As you can see, he is showing some doubt over DYH flipping scum. That's all fine, nothing to see there, but his reasoning is absolutely insane.
tl;dr:
- DYH showed up when he got voted - Scum wouldn't bother to turn up because scum!Jealous would not bother
As Rels said earlier, this is a piss-poor reason to start doubting a scum-read when a) scum 100% would want to defend themselves so that they...don't get lynched and b) time-zones/ RL commitments can also influence if someone arrives at EOD.
That's not a strong enough explanation to make anyone doubt themselves about a read, especially after the case that Jealous made where he concluded 'scum'. The mere act of posting at EOD when you are being voted has jack shit to do with your alignment.
Furthermore, he wasn't interested in switching wagons from DYH so I see no logical or emotional motivation for this sudden doubt. Thus I'm concluding that he's full of shit. That post had him stretching so hard for an excuse to distance from the ML that he sprained a muscle.
I don't think this makes Jealous scum. If you're scum why just not vote DYH without giving any reason and live happily ever after
On September 29 2016 06:24 Calix wrote: Actually I have one question. DYH, who are you going to vote for and why? Don't spend ages on answering this, lol.
##Vote: Scott
I've been thinking about Superbia's kill. There are 4 reasons I can think of for it.
1. Medic dodge. 2. Town is off track, didn't want a fresh vet voice changing things 3. Superbia is on right track 4. WIFOM salad
#1 is obviously the case. With their RB gone they aren't going to target Calix (most townread person N1). #2 is iffy. Obviously taking out a fresh voice in Superbia accomplishes this, but he isn't heavily townread and he has stated repeatedly that he was going to be lazy this game. #3 is the most likely case. After losing your RB the first night you can't risk someone with correct suspicions putting you down 0-2. Most common reason to kill someone, also makes the most sense from the mafia perspective this game. #4 is very unlikely. There are too many people who have established themselves decently as town, too many people more productive than Superbia.
##Vote DHY
???
There you go guys, 3 manners of voting on an already happening lynch. Suit yourselves.
Anyways, process of elimination & Lunatic interactions have left me with Skynx/scott as the most probable scumteam now. Anything you have to say about that? Would be especially interesting to hear your current Skynx/Jealous/Tictock reads.
And I still don't see the case for stutters besides his subpar activity/play. I guess I might have to elaborate on my other reason a bit later if need be.
Something feels wrong though. Like can it really be something as easy as Skynx/scott?
I think I'll be reading Rels filter for the time being. Be back a bit later.
I think Skynx guy is quite town, same with TT and Jeal.
Scott I'll re-read soon, possibly 2mox.
Gut feels?
Nah reasons are actually there in my filter, along with progressing lists and all you know.
EPT
<3
