|
On January 03 2016 01:37 GlowingBear wrote:Show nested quote +On January 03 2016 01:19 NocturneMage wrote:My take on GB, going through his filter. Points that make GB scummy (1) Engagement with KMatt was poor when he initially scumread him and early on I felt he didn't do anything with his reaction test (or whatever it is) that got any alignment indicative information on Shapelog (the only other person interacting at the time), etc. This I thought was scummy from GB. (2) This post. http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/mafia/500060-newbie-student-mafia-xviii?page=31#615Kush voting with Onegu was after Onegu gave one reason for voting Fidei and Kush at that time gave a separate reason for voting Fidei. So I don't think this is unreasonable and it looks like you are taking the situation out of context. (3) The post on killing GigyaS is bad because D1 nightkills yield little information, like I did in a few of the games I've played you need multiple nights of NK WIFOM analysis or NK WIFOM analysis with something else to more reasonably go after someone. (4) Stance on mderg. From what I can tell mderg has posted in and out of the thread since GB has made his initial scumread on him and GB seems pretty content to call him mafia without (from what I can tell) any re-evaluation. (5) Related to (4), hard stance on Onegu in nightphase - he's saying that Onegu cannot possibly believe what he's saying/double standards on him and Shapelog but then he takes a read based on LESS RELIABLE INFORMATION (NK WIFOM from night 1) and wants to lynch GigyaS over what from his perspective should be MORE RELIABLE INFORMATION (Onegu cannot believe what he's possibly saying). The problem with this is that both GB and Onegu are calling each other mafia, Onegu is straightaway lynching GB, GB isn't lynching Onegu straightaway though, so I'm trying to figure out if this could be the surface of double bussing or what. (1) I've just explained that it wasn't a reaction test, it was just to have people discussing. This means that how people react doesn't matter. So I don't necessarily was expecting a response from Shapelog and I don't necessarily need to infer anything from his responses. Also, have in mind that although I've posted a vote without reasoning, it doesn't mean I didn't have a read on Kmatt. I did. (2) I didn't click on the post lol so I don't know what you're talking about, I will check it after I post this. (3) Fair enough. I had in mind that if I wasn't going to be killed night1 it was because I was wrong (my reads differ from basically everyone in the thread, I supposed that if I was right I would die, therefore, my reads are wrong and I should re-check Irish's scum reads). But you are right.(4) Lurking isn't the reason I am scum reading him, so coming in and out of the thread doesn't matter. What matters is HOW he is doing it, and he is being very selective on what to talk about and not really pursuing any person to further investigate people's alignment, which makes me think he is scum.(5) You're right, again. I should be voting Onegu.
GB, two things
(1) On mderg, do you think his latest post - or rather how he's framed it - comes from a mafia mindset? Specifically the argument that GigyaS is the easiest target for you (paraphrasing) as opposed to you trying to push him (mderg) or Onegu?
To me either alternative would have been reasonable because it was earlier in the cycle.
Or are you saying that mderg is mafia because he's only talking about you? How are these things impossible from a town standpoint?
(2) On gigyas, I get what you mean here but your reads could be wrong, they could be right (mafia with 1kp cannot kill two people with correct reads), they could have been bluehunting for all we know, or they could have just taken out someone who would appear to them impossible to mislynch.
To me, it just appears odd at best that a veteran player like you would put so much weight on that when you had (1) more conviction (for whatever reason) that mderg was mafia and (2) you previously made an argument that placed Onegu as exclusively mafia.
|
I'm putting my vote on Onegu - this could obviously change.
|
Shapelog makes several comments on Onegu throughout his filter but no actual reads on him, only that Day 1 Onegu is "weird".
681 is really scummy because he definitely talks about the scumslip and should have been able to make a conclusion on it. Instead he tells Onegu to "put in effort". There's no meaningful interactions where he either makes a conclusion. In 684 he still fails to make a read on him, even after asking questions.
|
EBWOP - There's no meaningful interactions where he makes a conclusion either way.
|
Couple additional things I don't like about Shapelog - he said his reads got more pointed/more precise as the game would go on, On that note alone, the Onegu read alone, that fails.
Also a general newbie mafia tell - if I am correct here, this is his second game, aside the issues with him in the ER, and NYE, and newbie mafia have a tough time posting over multiple cycles, or they fall off. Some time has elapsed since New Year's, and this combined with other points, makes a mafia Shapelog more likely.
|
On January 03 2016 22:46 nooniansoong wrote:
Thanks for stepping in to explain it to the newbie, Mr mafia 😄
Post 815....that could come from either alignment. I've played enough newbies, I've seen rayn (as town) and ritoky (as mafia) and a few more in there make those suggestion type posts to newbies.
|
On January 03 2016 22:48 nooniansoong wrote:
Shape mderg onegu is my scumteam. So we basically agree nm.
No, not quite. It's possible I could be wrong somewhere, but my mind is right now Shape, Onegu, GB, with the latter two atm double bussing. Both need town cred, so the scum motivation makes sense, and so does the town motivation, but independent of associative reads, I have reasoning to scumread them both.
I thought mderg's last posts against GlowingBear were towny as it pointed out a discrepancy in prioritising his vote against what his sentiment was.
I know why you are reading mderg as scum fundamentally but what am I missing here? Meta? Should I hit the database then?
|
On January 03 2016 23:37 Onegu wrote:
@NM if you scum read both me and GB why are you voting me over BlowingGear?
I am scumreading both of you, there might be some associative stuff (unflipped, yes I realise this) with my other scumread, Shapelog, and GB's hesistancy to vote you indicates power role protection behaviour. Again, unflipped.
But
(1) I have independent reasons to scumread both of you individually.
(2) I have reasons that you might be a higher priority kill than GB. Admittedly associative, but they are there.
|
KMatt, I have a question. Let's say GlowingBear gets modkilled for whatever strange reason today.
Whom would you vote for now?
|
It looks like GB owes responses to questions from GigyaS and myself, Fidei owes responses to myself as well. Granted it's a Sunday afternoon, let's hope people haven't been drinking like crazy all weekend.
|
Actually GB has been posting drunk in another ongoing game. On second thought...
|
GB still not back? Guess it's time to set priorities...
##unvote
##vote GlowingBear
|
On January 04 2016 03:30 Fidei86 wrote:
I'm a bit concerned that nobody has really defended Onegu at all, but at this point if he's scum his scummates are probably trying to distance themselves from him. Also, GB is not the lynch today. I don't really like any of the points made against him.
##vote: Onegu
Can you read post 764 and get back to me?
|
On January 04 2016 01:59 nooniansoong wrote:Show nested quote +On January 04 2016 01:10 NocturneMage wrote:On January 03 2016 22:48 nooniansoong wrote:
Shape mderg onegu is my scumteam. So we basically agree nm. No, not quite. It's possible I could be wrong somewhere, but my mind is right now Shape, Onegu, GB, with the latter two atm double bussing. Both need town cred, so the scum motivation makes sense, and so does the town motivation, but independent of associative reads, I have reasoning to scumread them both. I thought mderg's last posts against GlowingBear were towny as it pointed out a discrepancy in prioritising his vote against what his sentiment was. I know why you are reading mderg as scum fundamentally but what am I missing here? Meta? Should I hit the database then? Mdergs point against gb was so obvious he doesn't get townpoints for that. Put your self in scums place. Would you think to jump on that post from gb? Of course.
Two questions:
(1) What makes mderg's actions exclusively mafia? When I skimmed GB's filter, you can see where GlowingBear expresses sentiment against mderg (confident we are hitting mafia) and an argument against Onegu where Onegu is exclusively mafia ("he cannot possibly believe what he is saying") so how can you eliminate either alignment looking at this and coming to the same conclusion? Am I making sense?
(2) The flip side to this question - why do you think GlowingBear is town?
|
Or Noon, are you saying reading the filter is so obvious to come to that conclusion that he shouldn't get the townpoints? If true, then so.... But then that still poses the question - how do you arrive at any other conclusion?
Like if there's some metaread on mderg you have, that's great, but not having played with this person I don't really understand other than your surface level argument "he's looking town, but not acting in the best interests of town", that I get, but I'm trying to separate that argument from what you just said.
|
Your arguments so far against mderg is basically saying that he's towny on the surface. Let me read his filter again in entirety.
|
And your read on mderg is NOT a meta read, correct? If it is, then I will also check his games from the database.
|
Page 1 of mderg's filter could come from either alignment. Mostly one-liners, indicates someone conversational, again either alignment. The scumread on you from him makes sense - if he's not familiar with your play (????) then it makes sense for him to call you hypocritical for calling a lynch when you don't play until d2.
From a scum motivation however, post 323 can be seen - you cannot expect someone to solve the game day 1. From a town motivation though you can also say that you aren't working towards finding a proper scum lynch.
The way I see it for my own standards is that if you cannot find a good lynch or compromise on a lynch early enough in the cycle THEN you go for the policy lynch.
|
On January 04 2016 04:09 Shapelog wrote:
Hi
This is shapelogs girlfriend.
My Bf is in the ER again and has to get another surgery. He asked me to ask for a /replace or whatever that is.
Where do i do this at?
Damn, I'm really sorry to hear about this. Give him our regards so he recovers quick. You need to PM Kita.
|
On January 04 2016 04:10 GiygaS wrote:
I honestly cannot figure out who I want to lynch today. I was so sure on kmatt until that megapost. Going to go over GB and Onegu's filters and the cases on them one more time, as it seems like the lynch will be one of those two.
Even more confounding is both players have voted the other but have completely AFKed.
|
|
|
|
|
|
EPT
