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On December 03 2015 02:46 Trfel wrote:
Rels:
When you provided the list of games that DoYouHas has played... did you read his filter from the games, or look into the games in any way?
Skimmed some before realizing I didn't know what I was looking for. I thought that his last scum game looked good to me, so I wonder how he got lynched; and he had a similar filter size in a scum game and a town game that ended in the same day.
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On December 03 2015 02:54 disformation wrote:Hm... looking at Fidei86. That is not an easy one, I def. like the first ~ 1 1/2 pages of his filter up to the post from earlier today. You know that one: + Show Spoiler +On December 02 2015 19:05 Fidei86 wrote:
Eh, I went to the cinema yesterday evening and then spent the rest of it catching up with friends. I have time at lunch time and will catch up. My old town meta, insofar as you think it was different, was before I totally fucked up the last Newbie game, which has really changed the way I view everything (and made me much less sure about myself).
Obviously that read was super early on you Rels. I don't think the post you quoted necessarily disproves what I said though. Totally you were a lot more combative in your opening than I have seen previously - there is a difference between scum reading someone and calling someone out.
The thing that concerns me about your play over the last day or so is that as scum you typically just nitpick/chase up nitpicks, and do so relentlessly. It's good scum play, as people can't say you're not contributing.
I think you're probably town now, with the only reason being that I think scum Rels probably doesn't pick a fight with me, at least not this early. As you say, we have played a fair bit together, so I think you'd be wary of me. That's hardly a good reason, as it requires you having a high opinion of me. >>
Not super sure what to make of it right now, since the earlier parts of his posts gave me a strong town vibe. Maybe too tunneled on Rels?
What do you mean "tunneled on Rels" ?
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On December 03 2015 03:10 Trfel wrote:I think that DoYouHas is a really awful lynch for today. Show nested quote +On December 02 2015 14:14 DoYouHas wrote:
Well reading the filters of my middleground group (Fid, HtS, LS, disfo) was significantly less productive than I had hoped.
Gnight folks
@LS - I would like to hear your feelings towards Palmar, Damdred, and Rels. First, assuming that if DoYouHas is scum, he is playing to survive and is not giving up. This isn't a post that scum would make. Scum would need to come up with an argument here, some sort of post or push on someone. The absolute worst thing for survival is to do nothing. But doing nothing is likely to come from town who can't conclusively find scum, especially if he is holding himself to only using strong reads, as he said earlier. Looking at DoYouHas' posts about 18 hours ago, I don't really think that those posts come from scum who is giving up. It's possible, but less likely I think.
I had the opposite feeling. It reminded me of my feeling when playing scum; like I say to myself "OK I need to filter dive X and Y and make some analysis", then it's haaaaaard to do because it's hard to play scum, so sometimes I give up. I can see scum!DYH imagining "ok I need to filter dive those 4 players", reading quickly their filters, and giving up.
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On December 03 2015 03:41 disformation wrote:Show nested quote +On December 03 2015 03:33 Rels wrote:On December 03 2015 02:54 disformation wrote:Hm... looking at Fidei86. That is not an easy one, I def. like the first ~ 1 1/2 pages of his filter up to the post from earlier today. You know that one: + Show Spoiler +On December 02 2015 19:05 Fidei86 wrote:
Eh, I went to the cinema yesterday evening and then spent the rest of it catching up with friends. I have time at lunch time and will catch up. My old town meta, insofar as you think it was different, was before I totally fucked up the last Newbie game, which has really changed the way I view everything (and made me much less sure about myself).
Obviously that read was super early on you Rels. I don't think the post you quoted necessarily disproves what I said though. Totally you were a lot more combative in your opening than I have seen previously - there is a difference between scum reading someone and calling someone out.
The thing that concerns me about your play over the last day or so is that as scum you typically just nitpick/chase up nitpicks, and do so relentlessly. It's good scum play, as people can't say you're not contributing.
I think you're probably town now, with the only reason being that I think scum Rels probably doesn't pick a fight with me, at least not this early. As you say, we have played a fair bit together, so I think you'd be wary of me. That's hardly a good reason, as it requires you having a high opinion of me. >>
Not super sure what to make of it right now, since the earlier parts of his posts gave me a strong town vibe. Maybe too tunneled on Rels? What do you mean "tunneled on Rels" ? The post I quoted is heavily focused on you specifically.
OK I thought you meant it like "pushing Rels"
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On December 03 2015 03:46 Trfel wrote:Show nested quote +On December 03 2015 03:35 Rels wrote:On December 03 2015 03:10 Trfel wrote:I think that DoYouHas is a really awful lynch for today. On December 02 2015 14:14 DoYouHas wrote:
Well reading the filters of my middleground group (Fid, HtS, LS, disfo) was significantly less productive than I had hoped.
Gnight folks
@LS - I would like to hear your feelings towards Palmar, Damdred, and Rels. First, assuming that if DoYouHas is scum, he is playing to survive and is not giving up. This isn't a post that scum would make. Scum would need to come up with an argument here, some sort of post or push on someone. The absolute worst thing for survival is to do nothing. But doing nothing is likely to come from town who can't conclusively find scum, especially if he is holding himself to only using strong reads, as he said earlier. Looking at DoYouHas' posts about 18 hours ago, I don't really think that those posts come from scum who is giving up. It's possible, but less likely I think. I had the opposite feeling. It reminded me of my feeling when playing scum; like I say to myself "OK I need to filter dive X and Y and make some analysis", then it's haaaaaard to do because it's hard to play scum, so sometimes I give up. I can see scum!DYH imagining "ok I need to filter dive those 4 players", reading quickly their filters, and giving up. I guess I can sort of see your point, however I think it's really easy to take a filter and throw out a random conclusion. Also, disformation's post is really brilliant. I hadn't thought of this. Show nested quote +On December 03 2015 03:23 disformation wrote:On December 03 2015 03:20 Trfel wrote:On December 03 2015 03:15 disformation wrote:On December 03 2015 03:10 Trfel wrote:I think that DoYouHas is a really awful lynch for today. On December 02 2015 14:14 DoYouHas wrote:
Well reading the filters of my middleground group (Fid, HtS, LS, disfo) was significantly less productive than I had hoped.
Gnight folks
@LS - I would like to hear your feelings towards Palmar, Damdred, and Rels. First, assuming that if DoYouHas is scum, he is playing to survive and is not giving up. This isn't a post that scum would make. Scum would need to come up with an argument here, some sort of post or push on someone. The absolute worst thing for survival is to do nothing. But doing nothing is likely to come from town who can't conclusively find scum, especially if he is holding himself to only using strong reads, as he said earlier. Looking at DoYouHas' posts about 18 hours ago, I don't really think that those posts come from scum who is giving up. It's possible, but less likely I think. Hm? I have seen a bunch of scum giving up early D1 to not give information/out of frustration. scott did this one game (I think it was NSM10), Sulfurus did this in NSM13. Breshke just straight up vanished D2 in NSM17. Oh, it happens a ton. I just don't feel that DoYouHas' series of posts is that of scum who is giving up. Do you disagree? Assuming that those posts are not from scum giving up, then that means that if he is scum, something changed in those ~5 hours that led him to give up. I'm going to say there's basically no way that he made that post for a WIFOM play, that's just so unlikely that I refuse to consider it as a possibility. I don't think that DoYouHas is 100% town, but he's probably town, and almost definitely a bad lynch for today. Do you disagree with anything? Am I missing something? Hm. Yes, that last post is a bit strange from the perspective. I guess scum would just not post any more at that point and just GTFO... boy this game is getting hard already and it is only D1. xD If it's like you say, he would have just vanished instead of making that post. Five hours later is a long time, that's not a result of quickly skimming filters. It's possible that he is mafia here and gave up and then decided to make that post much later. It's just much, much more likely that he's town and really just ended up with no strong [scum] conclusions. Either way, I don't think he's a good lynch.
Again, I feel the opposite. Why did he feel compelled to make a post before going to sleep, which had nothing in it ? As scum, to show he's done something, even if he couldn't make fake analysis. As town ... nothing. That's even a little contradictory to what he said in answer to Damdred's post, when he was opposed to everyone giving small reads.
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On December 03 2015 03:50 Trfel wrote:
Ugh, I need to actually get lunch, but here's my thing on MoosyDoosy really quick.
When he checked his role PM, he said he was town, and he got really frustrated. Then three minutes later, he seemed quite happy. Throughout his filter, he seems really happy and there's no hint of frustration at all. This doesn't match.
OK this is super good if this is true. I too have to AFK right now; but if you didn't do it when I come back, I will check that.
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Yo. I'm around, but I have some pages to catch up and a EOD to manage in the game I'm hosting. Will be available in 13 minutes.
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On December 03 2015 04:08 Fidei86 wrote:
Town
Shining - He was winning townie plaudits for his fight with Palmar, but rather than carry it on (and continuing to crap up the thread) he stopped (or at least tried to) and gave a good read post at #229. I like his read on dis, which I agree with. He asks Kush and Moosy to do more, at a stage where the better Mafia play would have been to ignore them and let town coalesce towards a "lynch all idiots" lynch. (Disclaimer: I previously called him out for not stopping the fight, but a re-read of his filter shows he was trying to stop it but Palmar wouldn't let it go.)
Trfel - Rels is right, for someone with over 3k posts Trfel sure apologises a lot. He seems to have some sort of reason for his early LS read, which I don't really care about. I actually like is read on Rels "why is he just throwing shit everywhere." Maybe town side of null. His later posts show quite nuanced reasoning. Moved to town for now, otherwise mostly everyone would be null
Dis - he and Trfel are playing similarly in my view. Both reading the thread, giving thoughts relatively fearlessly. Nothing that particularly jumps out as scummy. Lean read.
Null
Damdred - underwhelmed by his reads, which seem to mostly have been of Shining. Need to filter dive. No sense in lynching today.
Damdred - whole filter is super underwhelming. Says he has town reads, but then just gives me and Shining without and further explanation. Lacklustre but posts come off as condescending. Scum side of null but wouldn't lynch yet.
HTS - I am scared of a Mafia Dani, and that is probably colouring my read of her. One thing I'm not sure of is why she voted for DYH having just excoriated kush for his dumbass post about voting for Rels.
Palmar - his entire first act was fighting with Shining. He made his point, and I agreed with it. But he kept pushing and pushing beyond when it was reasonable. I also didn't like that he called my first post "fine" and "null" but at another point said I was a "tow read". Says he doesn't want to lynch into me, then later says I'd be an okay lynch? Huh? I had him in Mafia, but his last few reads on Damdred and
Rels - I'm all over the place on Rels. I've made the point that Mafia Rels tends to buddy harder than he is here. But in this game he seems to be talking in complete parallel to the thread, raising points others aren't but not engaging in the same sort of manner I would expect from a town Rels. But I actually really like his DYH read and vote.
Mafia
LS - his entry list was all nulls ("I need more time on Moosy" -- no shit!) and basic basic points that display no particular thought. #431 says the game is hard but hasn't really given a read on anyone? O
Useless
Kush - he is going to have to do a lot to get back from "not changing my Rels vote even though he might be town because changing votes is hard"
Moosy - only sensible post is pushing Shining on his read of me. When he'd explained it like 8 times and I'd only made one post.
DYH - Lots of town-reads and afk promises. Hardly encouraging. Was not really a fan of his Trfel read.
Onegu. It's O-word dude. Hands up if you're surprised.
OK I like that post. Especially the double Damdred =D
Some stuff, sry if you already answered in the pages I haven't read:
- what do you think of kush's most recent posts ?
- why vote a useless instead of your "mafia" ?
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On December 03 2015 04:44 Trfel wrote:Show nested quote +On December 01 2015 08:37 Rels wrote:
Yo.
If you're boxer you fucking shut up. There is two possible mafia setups: one with two possible town setups with one boxer each so it doesn't matter. And one when we have either boxer + vet, or cop + vig. In that last case, mafia wants to roleblock their kill target in the vet setup, or roleblock someone else on the cop + vig setup.
Boxer claiming would make them know what is the thing to do.
Tldr if you're boxer you shut up unless you're getting lynched.
Tldr 2 the two people pushing for boxer to claim are suspicious. Damdred and doyouhas I'm going to bring this up again. Please, hear me out, but I DO NOT WANT TO START A MECHANICS DISCUSSION. First, I will assume that the argument that Rels presents about the BoxeR claiming is 100% correct. No matter what. No questions asked. Just for the purpose of this argument. With this assumption, and two people telling the BoxeR to claim, it's important for this argument to be made as quickly as possible so that the BoxeR can see it and not claim. The thing is, Rels presents a really well-explained argument for this. It kind of feels too good to be true. He's already stopped to analyze the setups from a mafia perspective, and see what they know, and see what town knows. He's 100% sure that mafia doesn't know which setup the game uses, despite the standard Blazinghand newbie game using a similar four-option setup where the mafia team IS told the setup. Like, I know that Rels is good. But is he really this good? His first post of the game, 37 minutes after the day began.... It doesn't feel quite right.
My god. I can't rebute an accusation that finishes by "if Rels is town doing that, then he's super good".
I didn't plan to post anything than "yo all good night" when Damdred posted about boxer.
On December 03 2015 04:44 Trfel wrote:
Side note, I remember that Half the Sky mentioned that she'd only played with kushm4sta before in Carol of the Bells. Which is wrong, since we all played in I believe Student Mafia IV (one of the Student Mafia games, before the Newbie Student mafias), and kushm4sta was in that game and actually sort of played. He was mafia, so I'm surprised that Half the Sky forgot that.
But I just remembered that kushm4sta actually was in Carol of the Bells. If you have any doubt that kushm4sta is capable of playing this lazily as town, look at his play from Carol of the Bells.
He had (arguably) the most important town power role in the game. A mafia player baited the role to claim, and the entire thread yelled at how stupid that request was. Didn't matter, kushm4sta didn't care and just claimed his role and died.
In retrospect, it was pretty darn hilarious, but at the time it was infuriating.
What did she say exactly ?
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On December 03 2015 06:02 disformation wrote:
Hmm... was skimming through the rest of Rels filter. Looked pretty good to me.
On December 03 2015 06:17 Half the Sky wrote:Show nested quote +On December 03 2015 05:22 Trfel wrote:On December 03 2015 05:15 disformation wrote:On December 03 2015 04:44 Trfel wrote:On December 01 2015 08:37 Rels wrote:
Yo.
If you're boxer you fucking shut up. There is two possible mafia setups: one with two possible town setups with one boxer each so it doesn't matter. And one when we have either boxer + vet, or cop + vig. In that last case, mafia wants to roleblock their kill target in the vet setup, or roleblock someone else on the cop + vig setup.
Boxer claiming would make them know what is the thing to do.
Tldr if you're boxer you shut up unless you're getting lynched.
Tldr 2 the two people pushing for boxer to claim are suspicious. Damdred and doyouhas I'm going to bring this up again. Please, hear me out, but I DO NOT WANT TO START A MECHANICS DISCUSSION. First, I will assume that the argument that Rels presents about the BoxeR claiming is 100% correct. No matter what. No questions asked. Just for the purpose of this argument. With this assumption, and two people telling the BoxeR to claim, it's important for this argument to be made as quickly as possible so that the BoxeR can see it and not claim. The thing is, Rels presents a really well-explained argument for this. It kind of feels too good to be true. He's already stopped to analyze the setups from a mafia perspective, and see what they know, and see what town knows. He's 100% sure that mafia doesn't know which setup the game uses, despite the standard Blazinghand newbie game using a similar four-option setup where the mafia team IS told the setup. Like, I know that Rels is good. But is he really this good? His first post of the game, 37 minutes after the day began.... It doesn't feel quite right. Okay. Let me try. So you assume that the good play for town/boxeR is to not claim. Two people say the opposite. So Rels rushes to the help of town and presents a good argument why boxeR should not claim. So a) he is town or b) he wants the town cred. He analyzes the setup, which is possible as either alignment. hmmm... the op doesn't say whether mafia knows the setup or not... and you are right he seems pretty convinced that mafia does not know the setup. This part is kinda strange indeed... The parts about it feels too good and is he this good confuse me a bit though. Like what do they add to this argument, besides making it look like a fear read a lot? =p maybe I should go and read rels more in depth... Maybe this is just not a good argument at all. One more try. The key word is that Rels is rushing to the aid of town. Rushing, because speed is important. And his post is extremely knowledgeable, and is a really comprehensive explanation. I find it hard to believe that he got confirmation that scum didn't know the setup in time to make this post, for example. If Rels was around earlier, he should have been posting. Town wouldn't avoid posting like that. Basically, Rels took extra time to make sure his argument was completely explained and correct, when town wants to post as quickly as possible. This makes me wonder if the motivation behind the post is, instead of helping town, to make himself look better, which would mean that Rels is mafia. The argument falls apart if Rels is good enough to make this post as town without taking much extra time, which is what I was trying to get at. That seems really unlikely, but I can't completely rule it out. Not sure I like or agree with this post. I might be biased here because I've cohosted two games now with Rels, both of which are themed and both of which require him to know his mechanics in depth. I concluded this post alone was NAI because anyone skilled enough or knowledgeable enough about setup spec can speak to their opinions about what certain roles should and should not do. My opinion based on what I read in the OP/day post was that scum can narrow down the setup as they know their own roles so Rels' post is reasonable based on the fact that if the boxer claims, they can further narrow down the setup. The part about 100% sure on the setup is completely false, based on his saying "there are two possible setups....etc" no they don't know for sure but like I said before they can narrow it down based on how BH (and clearly you know from what you've posted?) assigns the roles in his games in the mafia QT, and that would appear to be Rels argument. I don't know where you are getting "took extra time" (I'm seeing a 10 minute gap between Damdred's and Rels response and from what I'm reading of the thread/their filters, for both players it is their first appearances in the thread, 23:27 and 23:37 respectively) or how you'd know he would have posted that otherwise unless I'm reading that sentence wrong. What I'm trying to say is it appears to me that you are reaching here especially since as Rels hadn't posted yet in the thread so I don't know how you can even assume that. It seems like a few assumptions "if he was around" etc. but even if you are making the argument that 10 minutes is too long for him to construct his post, that's still a poor assumption because when you look at his filter that 23:37 post is the first post he makes in the game. You don't know if he arrives at 23:35, sees that and just churns it out which makes the "completely explained and correct" part a reach on your end as well.
OK I feel HTS and disfo have no reason as scum to push suspicions off me.
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On December 03 2015 07:01 Damdred wrote:
Let me juts simply state why LS is scum so people will go yep sheep the damdred.
1) Little to no reads
2) No scum hunting
3) Not really involved in the thread as it goes forward, really side lined
4) Has no scum reads at all even states as much
5) His trfel progression is very strange
Good lynch indeed
Yep this is true. Especially the no scum reads at all, since I showed him his Trfel read didn't make sense. When I asked him for a team, he said he wanted to evaluate kush and Onegu.
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On December 03 2015 07:07 Palmar wrote:
I'm going to watch tv for half an hour or so.
I think I'm just gonna roll with Damdred. I have no good reason to call LS town so fuck it.
Where is the "I'm proud of my D1 skills" ?
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On December 03 2015 07:14 LightningStrike wrote:
Okay DAMDRED IS A FUCKING IDIOT WHY FORGOT TO READ I ME BEEN BUT HE READ ME CORRECTLY ALL BUT THE TIME HE BEEN MAFIA.............
Dropping my vote on MD IDK HOME BUT I VT I DON'T TO DIE NOW.
##Vote:MooseyDoosey
OK rsoultin read time: angry LS is town LS.
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On December 03 2015 07:29 kushm4sta wrote:
I think the LS lynch is good.
I looked over his filter again. His arguments are always"so and so was like that in that game, and he's similar/different in this game, therefore he's town/scum" That's an overreliance on bad meta.
Those are very easy arguments for scum to make.
On December 03 2015 07:30 kushm4sta wrote:
LS please claim IMO.
LS claimed already.
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On December 03 2015 07:45 The Shining wrote:Show nested quote +On December 03 2015 07:42 Rels wrote:On December 03 2015 07:14 LightningStrike wrote:
Okay DAMDRED IS A FUCKING IDIOT WHY FORGOT TO READ I ME BEEN BUT HE READ ME CORRECTLY ALL BUT THE TIME HE BEEN MAFIA.............
Dropping my vote on MD IDK HOME BUT I VT I DON'T TO DIE NOW.
##Vote:MooseyDoosey OK rsoultin read time: angry LS is town LS. Someone said that about me in Drams and I was scum. I don't like these angry tone reads.
Yep. But rsoultin said something like "if LS is playing like that he is a different person" in Himalayas.
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DYH two catch up posts:
On December 03 2015 07:01 DoYouHas wrote:
Catching up now.
I can't see any scum motivation behind Trfel's hard defending of me. It doesn't even look like positioning for my flip is even really a possibility here. I was going after him, voted him, thread sentiment is against me. I'm an easy EASY person for scum trfel to keep the heat on. That he ran the other direction when there is no reason to as mafia is major town points in my book. Unvoting.
On December 03 2015 07:36 DoYouHas wrote:
Welp, if you don't have good scumreads, sheep the wagon of your townreads.
##Vote: LS
Kill that guy.
##Unvote
##Vote DoYouHas
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On December 03 2015 07:50 The Shining wrote:
With the amount of voting reminders I've received, it wouldn't shock me if both MD and Onegu were modkilled. But that doesn't help us figure out the lynch here. I will say if either one ninjas in a vote before EoD and doesn't post anything, its going to look really bad.
I know for a fact that Onegu's absence is NAI.
++ on Moosy.
Can you read DYH's filter ? It is super short.
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On December 03 2015 07:51 Palmar wrote:Show nested quote +On December 03 2015 07:10 Trfel wrote:On December 03 2015 07:04 Palmar wrote:
Do people like... ever... build good cases anymore? Palmar, you're not doing anything yourself, so you're going to have to stop this. Remember in Mini Mafia Down Under 2? We had a really good case and push against Alakaslam and you ruined it for a policy lynch. I realize that you're extremely talented and one of the best players on the site, but it's still possible that once in a while, someone else knows something that you don't (and just because they can't explain it well doesn't invalidate this). You don't need to attack me as well. I know this?? That's exactly why, I know that currently I don't have a lot of good ideas, and damdred's idea looks like a decent one so I'm just gonna roll with that.
You said "DYH is a good lynch".
DYH made two posts since:
On December 03 2015 07:01 DoYouHas wrote:
Catching up now.
I can't see any scum motivation behind Trfel's hard defending of me. It doesn't even look like positioning for my flip is even really a possibility here. I was going after him, voted him, thread sentiment is against me. I'm an easy EASY person for scum trfel to keep the heat on. That he ran the other direction when there is no reason to as mafia is major town points in my book. Unvoting.
On December 03 2015 07:36 DoYouHas wrote:
Welp, if you don't have good scumreads, sheep the wagon of your townreads.
##Vote: LS
Thoughts ??
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On December 03 2015 07:54 Fidei86 wrote:
Wasn't kush on md as well?
Yes.
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On December 03 2015 07:56 DoYouHas wrote:
What do you want from me Rels? I don't have good scumreads after dropping trfel. I sheep the wagon of 3 of my townreads in Damdred, disfo, and Palmar. It is what it is.
I also don't like how you sheeped and shut up but posted when being attacked
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EPT
